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Sitruex: Your situation is a sad one and I feel for your regrets. However, I think your mom lived her life the way she always lived it, like a train wreck looking for a place to happen. She had a mental illness. I'm sure her upbringing had a lot to do with who she ended up being, but I do think it quite possible that their might have been some other issues that could have been helped with medical intervention. Unfortunately, we can not MAKE people do the right thing for themselves.

It is entirely possible that your mother's last words to you would have been the same regardless of how she passed and even if you had kept her in your home to the very end. That was who she was. It wasn't your fault.

I hope you can forgive yourself and realize that you did your best. I'm sure it was terrible to realize what her last days were like, but she had her own free will and made choices to live a certain way. She picked the people she wanted to be with and those were poor choices. But that was how she lived her life. You could not control her desires or her choices. If you feel that it would have been best to let her stay with you and continue to hurt your family, then I can't change how you think or feel, I can only say you did your best and you were in a no win situation.
Again, it wasn't your fault. You are forgiven.

I like to think that when people pass, God heals them both physically and mentally and they are able to see things clearly. I'm sure your mom now knows you did your best to help her and she is sorry for the grief and pain she caused her children.

As for Lisa; she and her husband are bright people with very loving hearts. She is within her right to detach from her mother's never ending cruelty and dysfunction. Be careful that, in your pain, you don't judge others to harshly.

Cattails.
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Good grief again. You just don't get it still! NOT ONE PERSON ON HERE IS TELLING ME WHAT TO DO! I am a grown ass woman. I already knew in my heart what needed to be done. This site is about sharing experiences and offering helpful ADVICE. Without the love and support here I would still be sneaking into my dark basement on the couch crying at the end of my rope. Lady prayer is all well and good, but at the end of the day your own actions, being pro active is what is needed to make ones situation better. It's a shame you couldn't have found this site years ago. Because I KNOW you would be in a better place emotionally with the dealings with your mother. She rues the day you were born? Your lucky. My mom told me just three months ago " I wished I would have drowned your f******** ass at birth" I wish you the very best. I truly do. But now I'm asking you to go conduct Sunday school elsewhere. Because my relationship with god is just fine
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It seems everyone is under attack again for the love and support you have given me. And Jeanne I am so sorry you were just singled out. I hope I haven't offended any of you with my responses. I own my relationship with god. Nobody else is allowed to horn in on that. I am so very grateful that each and every one of you came into my life. My aunt Rae and I talked for 3 hours on the phone last night. She told me she wished she could still drive at night just so she could hold me. It felt so good to just tell her everything. What a load that took off. So ladee, I had one of the best nights sleep I've had in a while. I believe angels walk among us, and I've found them. My Doug, Beth and Jen feel the same. All our love to each and every one of you.
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Don't worry about it Lisa, all the love here is still intact.... not even a dent in it.... never ever apologize for standing up for yourself,,, remember, those days of shame and bs are over with...... we're all tough here, we can handle a situation and still keep on track... and am so happy to hear about that good nights sleep... and extra thank yous sent today for your aunt... I know it meant alot to you to be able to tell her and be validated..... I started to say 'prayers' but will hold off on that for a few days....LOL...
Hugs across the miles to you ....
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EVeryone here has a different relationship with themselves, with their families, with the people in their care, with god, with the universe, with win and chocolate and shoe shopping and anything else that soothes the heart and spirit. We are a community, and we work best when we offer support and advice and withhold judgment about whether people are "good" or "bad" or "right" with the particular sort of higher power someone else has. We are even BETTER when people read the whole darn thread before commenting.
Admittedly, this is a long one. But I'd bet it's one of the most extraordinary and healing threads here. And there is wisdom on every comment page.
I'm fine to let the easily offended be easily offended, personally. I'm grateful to Lisa for starting the thread, for following her inner wisdom, where ever it came from, and for the community of people who are supporting her, and each other, here. It takes a village, an our virtual village works best when we offer our love and support and tips, and skip past "you should believe in the god I believe in."
Sending love love love....
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sjtruex, I'm glad to hear that you read the entire thread. Sometimes people come looking for a pulpit to preach from and grab at likely-sounding titles.

I think that if you want to exchange thoughts on your own situation, and your regrets, etc., you'll do best by starting your own thread. This is not intended as a criticism. You are new here, and I'm trying to be helpful.

And, you certainly are trying to tell Lisa what to do -- you are telling her to pray. You are entitled to make that suggestion. All of us are entitled to make suggestions. If Lisa were weak enough to try to act on everyone's suggestions she'd be crazy within two days! Asking what other people think is not the same as running a popularity contest for ideas. Sometimes hearing a different perspective, even one we don't agree with and won't act on, can stimulate our own thought processes.

And when we've been abused, it is very, very nice to hear some validations and good wishes.
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I so wish I could choose my words as you just did Jane. Will you do the foreword in my book when I write it? ;))))) very well said. Love love love right back to you
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I read the first note from sjtruex and felt myself start to constrict. We all share our history to help people understand where we came from and why we did/do what we did/do....and I believe she truly wanted to help. I appreciate when spirituality comes through via our words and actions. I do NOT appreciate when religion is preached and presented in a self righteous way. Not everyone believes in God. Not everyone believes in the *SAME* version of God. To simply tell someone that you do not know personally what they should do in this way isn't helpful except for the person doing the "helping" because they feel like they've helped. It's okay to say that YOU chose a path and decided to give it all up to God and see what happens....because that is personal and was YOUR choice....but pushing one's beliefs on others, especially in a forum that isn't overtly religious will have results much like have been seen in the past few posts.

It's nice to be able to call on a higher power for strength and guidance....but I've know too many people who sit on their couch watching tv while expecting God to solve their problems because they asked him to. It's a team effort, and we all create our own teams. If nothing else....before going on about religious-oriented suggestions....maybe ASK if the person even shares your faith before delivering a sermon. I think it is possible for us to message each other privately, so maybe topics like that could be shared via private messages.

The "kick ass girls" have a strong bond and have been very proactive and results oriented so far and maybe the challenge was that sjtruex was just new to the group.....but by the time I finished reading the subsequent messages, I was put off and offended. Thought it was particularly ironic that she was offended. Could be, tho, that I'm oversensitive to religious stuff, so let me know if I'm overreacting.

sjtruex has some challenges and, like with bookworm, it might be very helpful to creates a separate thread to work through some of the emotional issues. That would give an opportunity for folks to join her discussion and work on healing.
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sorry to have repeated the request for a separate thread in my note. It took me so long to write that by the time I posted, Jeanne had posted *her* message and asked for a separate post. I'm gonna have to become quicker!

by the way, we are not under attack....so don't worry. I envision us shoulder to shoulder and when things get bumpy....it's the other person that best be watchin' out. Our resume of 608 posts speaks volumes of what the K A Girls are made of ---we are standing strong.
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I'm sorry...I went back to that note and realized what causes the kneejerk fury in my soul....people who profess to speak FOR God. People who tell others what God knows, believes, wants, etc etc etc. When anyone uses that kind of language, I can't help but look for agendas....deeply controlling and scary. If YOU believe something, OWN IT. But trying to get people to do something saying that God knows, believes, wants something is a purely manipulative maneuver. With our combined history of living with narcissists and other kinds of manipulative personalities, it's not a characteristic that will get very far on this thread. I would have been pissed off just like her mom if someone had come giving me speeches about what God wants me to do . Okay I'm done. Going outside. You ladies have a nice Saturday afternoon.
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Everyone enjoy your Saturday. Doug and I with our girls and Chris are heading out to the church picnic. Sure hope father Rick gets in the dunking booth again this year. I'll make sure he knows it's nothing personal, but I have a years worth of steam to let off. Snicker snicker snort snort.
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Been away a few days. Just trying to catch up on the comments - there are some doozies this time - sheesh. Eldest - you and I think alike. Lisa, I hope you dunk Father Rick a few times. You'd better bless yourself before each try though :) Something about dunking a priest makes me nervous!
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Welcome back Judy. Lisa, at least say grace before eating. Love Ya both, Cattails.
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Boy, a lot happens overnight! Anyway, I'm glad you all didn't start all preachy with me! With my current issues with God, I would have ran away from this website in a blink of an eye.

@sitruex, please understand that when you come in too strong about God or Religion, it can turn off lots of people immediately. I used to be very strong in my religion. I've learned subtlety when it comes to God. You cannot approach a person, and whack them wholeheartedly about God and how loving He is and How He can Help you in your Life and expect people to open their arms wholeheartedly back. Yes, God has helped you. But I bet, you had to reach rock-bottom to turn to Him. But not all people react that way. Some, like me and Lisa and others, do not turn to God. I KNOW what God would have liked me to do. But like Lisa said, when you hit rock-bottom, you need the NOW advice by other people who have gone through and are currently going through the same thing. If you really read all the posts, you will see that some commentors mentioned God. But they don't hit you on the head with it. And I really, really appreciate it. I'm Not Agnostic. I just have my own problems with God and this is between me and Him. If I wanted advice on my relationship with Him, I will go back to my religion...which I really rather not.

When I read the beginning of your comments, I got so totally turned off, I skipped it. If you truly want to help someone with their relationship with God, please, please read their comments first. Then approach it SOFTLY and see how they respond. If they don't reciprocate about God, then drop it. They're not yet ready to accept God in their life Prominently like you have. Give us space to waffle in life and find our own way out of the rock-bottomw dark hole. May I say one more thing, if you do open your thread, I will read it but can you please tone down the religion, part? Remember, approach Softly! I'm sorry about your mom. You take care!

Lisa, I understand how you feel. You go enjoy your family.
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Hi Judy!!! So glad your here. I hope your healing quickly. The picnic was fun. We always enjoy spending time with my ex in laws. Heck I don't even remember if I told you guys Beth came from my first marriage. It didn't work out. I married my best friend. He's great guy and a great father. And they all adore Doug and Jennifer. They always included Jen in their fun plans. Doug and my ex turned out to be such good friends I offered to move out if they wanted to get a place together. Lol!!! When my ex father in law was bed ridden before he died Doug would go have lunch with him a couple days a week. Beth and her dad kept everyone in the loop how things have changed here. My ex mil has been secretary of the church for 47 years and still going strong. So Beth informed me I was not to leave before I saw her. Hmmmmm. Uh oh....I went inside and rounded the corner and she had the biggest smile on her face. The aunts and uncles were in there. Her words to me were. Start healing and come back to us. Then Doug and Jen got their hugs from everyone. It was just so nice. As for father Rick? Couldn't get near him. There were at least 30 kids lined up to dunk their priest. I'm just feeling so good this evening. Tomorrow Jen and Chris have 5 houses, along with their realator to go see and invited us along. This is going to be so much fun. Makes my heart just swell that they asked us. I hope everyone has a nice evening. Love and hugs
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Hope u all had as great a day as we did. Planting a feature garden in our front yard so it looks good from my mom's window, as well as street n side views. She sat by window and marveled at all we did today (multiple week project). Had nice walk through our neighborhood w banjo concert from a neighbor-just for my mom. So fun. Btw, I too was mistreated as a child and to my amazement I was able to develop a happy, healthy life and now care for my mom with joy in my heart and home. It has taken lots of effort n time, but we CAN be fully restored from abuse n distrust to peaceful happiness- If ur struggling, Keep working at it, it's sooo worth it! That' my love, love love for tonight! Hugs, Kim
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I have tried the same thing with my mother Kimbee. Some days are good and some are not. I take them as they come. I have just distanced myself from my siblings which is not hard because they all live a fair distance away.
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Well, I need to vent. These last 24 hours has been the absolute best we have had in so very long. Then I get home and the phone is ringing. Mom wants me to come get her card and go to the grocery for her. No mom, I will not do that. Did you not go to the grocery on the bus? I TOLD YOU IM NOT DOING THE GROCERY BY MYSELF. good grief, here we go. Then? Well fine, I'll walk to kroger. Or I'll just sit here without food. That'll look good when cas detectives come here. This will probably bring me grief. I didn't go. Doug and I sitting here saying o crap, o crap, o crap. What the hell do we do? We are right back where she threatened to stop taking her Meds if I didn't hand over her pain pills. here's the facts. She has at least $150.00 cash. They cook three meals a day in their cafeteria. She's not starving. Grocery day is Wednesday. We are thinking maybe call the social worker tomorrow and ask her to intervene and see that she gets on that bus wednesday to grocery shop.? If she declines to speak to her? Suggestions anyone. Am I missing anything?
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Your mom sounds like she needs some drama, Lisa. If she has three meals cooked for her, then she should learn from this lesson and go to the grocery store. If you want to really stop worrying, then drop a few snacks in a bag and leave it with the social worker. That does not mean your mom has to know they are from you unless you want her to. I like the idea of putting the responsibility on the social worker about grocery day. Your mom is okay, though, and I hope you won't let this cause you too much worry. Love you! Rebecca
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Stay strong and let your NO mean NO, this is what I said about there will always be one more thing.... one suggestion is to let those in charge at her new residence to contact you if it is an emergency. other than that, be selective about answering the phone... you are not going to get in trouble for not taking her to get something to eat... you are still having knee jerk reactions to her threats and manipulatins... that will change over time... it really hasn't been that long Lisa, so be kind and gentle with yourself... you have that " knot in the stomach" reaction, she trained you well, you are still in the process of "unlearning", that is the hard part... but always look at what you have accomplished so far..... this will take time and you may always have a twinge when she pulls one of her stunts... but you have made some awesome progress..... don't miminize what you've already done....
I wonder if the case worker could figure this out on her own... just a suggestion... after your mom complains you didn't run to get her food, surely the caseworker will see it for what it is.... manipulation... if not,, it's still not your problem..... your mom really will figure out how to eat, she probably was munching on chips while talking to you.... hussy.... and just because she said she wasn't going to go by groceries by herself, doesn't make it your job... let them send someone with her, or delegate someone to pick them up for her... You will not get in trouble...... do not let your fear of the system rule you.... others will have suggestions also... but stay strong... and again, let your NO mean No... hugs across the miles to you.....
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Lisa, take a deep breath, please. As you slowly exhale, say the mantra du jour: it's not my problem ... it's not my problem ... it's not my problem ... it's not my problem ...Repeat as needed.

I think you need to go cold turkey, lady. No coaching the social worker. No delivering snacks. No telephone discussions. THIS IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM. She has the means to solve this herself. She is not suffering. You are not a cruel daughter. And this time you are not a gullible blackmail victim. THIS IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM.

Mother will get on the bus Wednesday or she won't. The social worker will remind her or she won't. She will walk to Kroger or she won't. She will do without extra between-meal food for a few days or she'll figure out how to get some. IT IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM.

You have worked so hard to make this not be your problem. Don't backslide now!

I agree with Rebecca that Mother sounds like she needs drama. Let her find it elsewhere. You just gave up your Equity card and your thespian career is over.
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Lisa: You mom needs to get in the swing of things. She won't do that unless she has to. Also, you need to come to a clear decision of just how much contact you want to have with your mom.

If it were me, I'd call the social worker at your mom's place tomorrow morning and tell her that you are getting calls from your mom to take her shopping. Explain that, although it may seen harsh to her (social worker), you do not plan to have contact with your mom in the future (if that's the case) and her care is centered around what their facility has to do to get her on track with their schedule of shopping, etc. In addition, tell your mom that if she is having a problem or needs something, she needs to contact the social worker at the facility.

This is going to go on for a while and I totally agree with Rebecca that your mom needs the drama. Let her create the drama with the facility and not with you. Stay out of it and let her make her own way.

Understand that your mom will do her best to get even with you. That's who she is and that's why she's not living with your anymore. So stand your ground and stand by for the blast back. It will come and you will have to deal with it. After this happens a couple of times, your mom may get it through her thick skull that you are really seriously done with her.

Just my thoughts. Feel free to modify where necessary. Love Ya, Cattails.

You just have to say NO.
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I guess, Ladee, Jeanne and I were all typing a response at the same time. Lisa, you have 3 very same responses. Stop. Love Ya, Cattails
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I did girls. I told her no. The dark hole only made it to my waist. Good thing since I plan on getting my tan on this next week;)))). I think I will contact the social worker Jane and tell her mom is having a difficult time adjusting how things work there and it would be just great if she could meet with her and help her understand the process. That given our relationship, I'm sure you can understand that she would greatly benefit from her guidance.
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This new scenario is all too familiar to me...I'm blown away by the comments already made --they are ones that we have come to employ. If she were living in your house and you didn't get food to her, THEN you'd be in trouble. But she's not in your house anymore. She is in a facility that has nothing to do with you....they provide 3 meals a day. You do NOT have to do ANYTHING....and if you don't it will not reflect back on you. The fact that you would react with that response shows that she does still have some of her claws in you and does still know how to reach into your netherregions.

My dad has my sisters on the string for bringing him items each week...for awhile we had a social worker do his shopping, but then he started having them get several bottles of wine etc, so sisters started shopping again. He'll call and say he's out of something, when he really isn't...I think he just wants to see if he can get anyone to care, because if they come a runnin', he feels important---it gives him stimulation. Sisters have finally realized all this and have put the shopping back on the social worker. If he complains to us that he's out of something, we tell him he'd better tell the social worker. If it is for something that he really does need, my sis will drive to the nursing home and drop it off at the front desk.

As for MOM having a need for drama.....I reprise my role as the pointer outer of ADHD characteristics.....Lack of stimulation brings conflicts such as these to provide a way for her to get her kick. Lisa....I hope you won't be offended when I suggest that if this were my Dad, I too would call an administrator at the facility, but instead of saying that mom/dad is having trouble acclimating, maybe consider saying exactly what is happening --that she is trying to create drama by pulling the daughter back into the setting and that she simple refuses to take that spot back. If you say she's having trouble adjusting, that is candy coating and will only serve to cause more problems. The reality is that my dad and your mom are paying these staffs to take care of them. The notion that YOU should be called when $$ is going to their staff is just crazy. Reminds me of my dad running out of milk when he was in assisted living 25 miles from our hometown. Instead of asking the gal on duty if she could bring him some mild for bed, he called my sister, 25 miles away and asked if she could bring the mild! It's not just about the items needed, it's more about him trying to continue the illusion that they are able to control you. Youn can tell the administrator THAT....Tread carefully. We're here for you.. .
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JEEZ...I need to go to sleep and NOT type when I'm this tired. SORRY...Here's what I MEANT to type.

Reminds me of my dad running out of milk when he was in assisted living 25 miles from our hometown. Instead of asking the gal on duty if she could bring him some MILK for bedtime, he called my sister, 25 miles away and asked if she could bring the MILK! It's not just about the items needed, it's more about THEM trying to continue the illusion that THEY are able to control US. You can tell the administrator THAT....and that you aren't going to play ball.
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Sounds like a good plan Lisa, but let us know when she calls again, because she will..... she doesn't care how it works, and I do get it that you are trying to not come off as the bad daughter here... just one question, a hundred years from now will it matter what anyone involved in this situation thinks... ??? Jane has already explained things to her.... I really do understand your intentions here, I really do, but at some point, when the time is right for you.... you will have to let go of the end result of this with your mom.... it takes time to get your mind wrapped around the fact that nothing you do will ever be 'enough', but am supporting you no matter what.... so let us know if Jane gets the vapors when you tell her she needs to spend more time with your mom..... have a good one.... and we'll be waiting for the next installment or episode of " What NOW??"... It takes time to untangle yourself from her and her 'stuff', I really do understand.... hugs to you today...
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Beth just answered the phone. Brought it to me. Well, are you coming today or not? No I'm not mom. Call Jane about Wednesday. Go to the small store they provide in basement. She laughed? Then hung up. I get the laugh. It's a your gonna regret this laugh. Ummmm, no I'm not.:))))))))
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Stay strong Lisa she has to get the message sooner or later-my mon use to call my sister when she needed grocries and it was usually the day after she had driven to get her hair done where they were food stores that she passed by when she was at the hair salon.
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Man, I so know this behavior and that laugh. The thing is, she is living to make you miserable. AND she can "turn you in" for not taking her shopping and it won't make a difference, won't mean a thing. Repeat the "Not my problem" mantra. Just say no to everything. In a few months, the calls will come less often. She will learn she doesn't get fed from this particular cycle, and your tan will be gorgeous.
HOW IS THE REDECORATING OF THE BEDROOM COMING? Reclaiming that space as your own will feel so so good. We want details.
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