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((((((hugs)))))) Lisa -another rocky road ahead. It seems that life keeps handing us one challenge after another. Your mil sounds like a very string and determined woman - notr the easier to deal with over a health issue which will likely involve her loising control. I think keeping notes about the irregular behaviour is important, and looking around for someone who can do an assessment. The aging people may have some suggestions, or social workers, as how to best deal with her -maybe a visit in her own home, at an appropriate time. I know, eventually you and the other sils will figure it out. I am not sure how well I would deal with being in the condition she is - my heart goes out to all of you. ((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))
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Well girls it's amazing how your day can go to hell. It only been 4 hours since I posted here. I get a call on my cell phone from a number I didn't recognize. Guess who? Miss Jane. Mom told her if she used the office phone and it showed on caller id I wouuldnt answer. So she used her personal phone. The problem? Moms phone would not work and she came down and asked them to call her a cab because she needed to get her breathing medicine. Ok, so what's the problem? She's shaking real bad Lisa, and seems extremely weak. We cannot in good conscience let her leave in a cab. So I told her the only way I would come is if Doug could leave the office and be present, and afterwards she would need to meet with us. So that was fine. Called Doug, and he was only three blocks from there checking on a job. Well he was already there in the office with Jane. They sent me back and he got up and said honey go on up to tell her your here. So I did and omg she was in a rage. Immediately started screaming at me. I'm not even going to go into what she said to me. After 751 post, you know the drill. So I told her what worked before. Shut your foul mouth or I will walk out. She shut up, opened the door and Doug and Jane were standing in the hall. Heard every word. Doug said do you want me to take over. Nope. I got it. He knew what was going to happen and made sure Jane witnessed it. So she's quiet until we are 3 blocks from drug store. I ignored her she went into pharmacy. And as usual I needed to cry but I didn't. I called my mil. She stayed on the phone with me till she came out. She gets to the car and a woman who is her pt from nursing walks up. There goes the mouth. People everywhere. So I called Doug. We both agreed. Get her in the car and dump her ass back home. He was still with Jane. Don't come in just leave. So I did. Doug had been going over janes options. Mam, you will deal with her from now on, or you need to get busy having a guardian appointed by the county like my wife has asked you to do. So like I have done since the day I got my drivers liscense I head to the cemetery to johnnys grave. All of these years when things would just get unbearable I would visit Johnny. It sounds odd, I know. But it just gives me comfort. While sitting there talking out loud to my brother, telling him the latest and crying, Doug calls. Are you almost home. I'll be there in a minute, why? It's not nice to lie to the one who loves you most. Turn around. Hahaha..breath..hahaha, there he is leaning up against his truck. So he came over and we weeded around his headstone and said , johnny, your momma is one crazy ass woman. It's a little spooky how well he knows me. So now I AM home feeling much better. He will go over everything tonite bout his little get together with Jane. He said I promise it's gonna get better real soon. Sigh....
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((((((((Lisa))))))) that jane better get her butt in gear and get a guardian appointed. This is no good for you - your mum is abusive and you should not be asked to walk into that. Glad you have Doug on your side, and he and jane heard it all. Hopefully he can convince jane to move on getting a guardian. Priceless that he knew where you were. I understand about talking to your brother - it is a safe place for you to vent.
Another thought - would your doc write a note to jane that you cannot be involved with your mum's care as she is abusive to you? Jane is just not taking the effect of this on you this seriously enough, IMO.
Hope you have had that cry, and are feeling less tension now.
((((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))) and love
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Emjo, dougs attitudes very uplifting. He sounded very confident at the cemetery. I was just too drained to discuss it. He left and I stayed a while longer. We will talk tonite. I know he's accomplished something. Lord, the look in his eyes when I walked out of that apartment with her. And when she saw him and Jane, her whole body jerked in shock.
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OK, this Jane person is an educated, grown-up woman, right? With a "professional" level job. What part of "not my problem" is she having trouble understanding, Lisa? 'Cause I'll bet a whole lot of folks from this thread would be very willing (and able) to explain it to her in great detail. I'll volunteer to go first. Just tell me how to contact her. Or, wait, I have a daughter-in-law who teaches English as a Second Language. Maybe we could recruit her for the first round, to be sure the explanation is suitable for people with limited English vocabularies.

What exactly is Jane's problem? So she can't put the drama queen in a cab. What would she do if DQ had no living relatives? This is Jane's JOB for crying out loud.

If I were Jane and the medicine was from a place that doesn't deliver and I felt DQ could not go by herself in a cab, I would send a cab (or other courier service) to pick up the meds and deliver them. Duh. This happens all the time in the business world. But no, she has to drag two people away from their own activities and subject them to terrible stress. If she HAD to involve a relative (and I can't imagine why she would), why not just have the med picked up and dropped off? What on earth was the benefit of sending DQ -- judged too shakey to go by herself -- off with the daughter she abuses?

The more I think about, the madder I get at Jane. She really couldn't figure out how the drama queen could get her breathing medicine without involving you!? And ths woman has some kind of college degree and a responsible job?

But, dear Lisa, this too is Not Your Problem!

I'll bet Doug had more practical solutions in mind. I'm looking forward to the next episode of How the World Turns Around Mother, in which will be revealed the plan to extricate long-suffering daughter (LSD) from Professional's imcompetency.
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Jeanne: I agree 100 %. In my humble opinion, I think Jane does it because she is trying to shift responsibility. If she calls Lisa, at least she can say, "Well, I called the daughter and she refused to come." It is a no brainer to have the medication picked up by a cab or courier. Plus, I thought the pharmacy MQ used does deliver. Maybe it was a new prescription that needed to be filled. Regardless, with a little thought, it could have been handled.

Jane may have been responding more to the physical signs of distress that DQ was manifesting and she has probably been trained to avoid any potential for a law suit. First order of business being, shift responsibility and document everything you try to do. Another example of this was when DQ went by ambulance to the hospital and "refused" to take her purse. Then Jane calls Lisa, "Your mother refused to take her purse and has no clothes." Jane is probably thinking, "If I gave her purse to the EM's then DQ could claim money was missing from it and I would be responsible for going against her wishes." This is crap, but it is the way some places work, especially if they responsible for taking care of a vulnerable population.

I'm speaking for myself here, but if it were me, I would call Adult Protective Services and talk to the people I already know there. I would tell them that I will not take any responsibility for my mother. I would reinforce that she is a sociopath and a chronic liar. I would tell them that I intend to send them a letter in writing advising them that they need to have DQ mentally evaluated and a guardian appointed. I would tell them that I also intend to give spirit house a letter telling them not to call me with regard to my mothers needs. They can advise me if she has been hospitalized, but they can not call upon me for intervention due to Mother's mental illness and her abusive nature.

I don't know if Lisa is up to this and we will see how things progress with the conversation Doug had with Jane. If it continues, then Lisa may have one more hoop to jump through to get all parties to act and quit passing the buck due to potential liability.

Lisa, I don't mean to talk to you in the third person. I know dealing with your mom's issues can be traumatic, but you may have to clear the field of reluctant players and turn the onus bank on them via written statements. They will then have been put on formal notice and if they fail to act, there is no doubt where the responsibility lies. I think that will change the dynamics.

Just my thoughts and excuse my frustration. I am angry with Jane and angry that we have to all deal with stupidity on a regular basis. We are all so responsible and determined to learn and do our best, but then we have to deal with the bureaucrats who seem to require the steel toed boot up the butt to get them to move.

Thanks for letting me vent. Cattails
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DQ is the new name for Mpm. from here on in.
AND DQ is "not my problem." I'm glad Jane heard everything. From now on, maybe, you can say, "Not my problem," Lisa. Again, be CLEAR what is and what is NOT "your problem," and prepare to truly let her go. Who cares what others think? DQ is NOT YOUR PROBLEM.
I hope this next part doesn't sound off-topic, and I am not looking for condolences, but my Dad -- who always wanted things His Way or the Highway -- died on Friday. And the overall fact is that it is better for all of us, himself included, that he is gone. I spent so much time and attention and so many resources trying to make an irrevocably unhappy person happier. It doesn't work. Your example, Lisa, helped me in the end. I'm so grateful.
Listen these wise women. "Not my problem" for EVERY PROBLEM you get presented with, from now on. Included death. Take care of the people who matter. She is not one of them.
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Well, there's two ways to look at this. One.... this really sucked and it shouldn't have happened, and she always hurts you, and its always something with the DQ. Or, two... well, it sucked but something was accomplished today and hopefully what was accomplished today will put an end to the constant intrusion and abuse. Jane got an earful. She got to hear your side of it without you saying a word. She heard the way your mom treats you, and that speaks volumes without you having to. And, Doug made some headway with Jane. Anxious to hear what he has to say about it. So, it was a sh*tty day on one hand, but a really productive day on the other hand - if it puts an end to this abuse. I absolutely love that Doug knew where to find you. Chin up. Good things ahead. You did well today, as usual. I wish we lived closer. I just made a mean cheesecake!
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I'm back. I have to tell you girls something before I get to Doug and Jane. When I posted earlier when I came home from the cemetery, I deleted it twice. I couldn't help thinking you all have to just be sick and tired of listening to this crap. And then, I am so ashamed that I let this happen to me again. Then I tell you about the cemetery. No other person on earth knows about my visits and conversations with Johnny except Doug. Not even my daughters. Then my minds racing. I shouldn't have shared that cause they'll think I'm as nuts as she is. So yes I have to explain. Never once did anyone offer to take me to the cemetery after he died growing up. The day I got my license, I found that cemetery and went to their office and those people took a young lady who was already crying by the time I explained who I was trying to find, and they put me in their car and took me to him. It had been 7 years. That man and woman sat in their car well over an hour and let me visit. And girls when I left there I felt such peace. I just don't know how else to explain it. That feeling I left with that day? I can still leave with that feeling. Each and every time I visit. Now the Doug and Jane. Bwahahahahaha. No more phone calls will be coming to the house or my cell phone. She will be meeting with mom Thursday. She is recommending that petition for guardianship through the county. Doug made it very clear that any information needed, any further involvement on our part will go thru him. He also made it clear that the records over the years thru cas obviously show she cannot make sound decisions protecting herself from the grandchildren. He said correct me if I'm wrong but did you not tell my wife that it's your job to protect her now? If you cannot or will not help the woman I need to know before I leave this building. Does your job as social worker not extend to social services. You told me you've had this position for 40 years. Are you telling me you do not have the resources or capabilities to accomplish this. Well no mr ford, it is my wish to bring families together. Then he said mam, have you not noticed there has only been one person who has signed in at that desk? She does not have a grandchild who will step in. No longer will I allow? My wife to be taken back to where she was taken again today. When I called Doug from pharmacy he put it on speaker phone. She heard all I told him. That was when he said get her back here and don't come in. Just leave. Well girls, that was why Doug said let's go. I'll meet you there. He had planned after telling me to go on up to get Jane there. She told him she dosen't make a habit of spying on the tenants. But she went anyway. So that is where we stand now. Doug said he's not going to permit her to sit on her hands. He will call every few days to see what if anything gets done with guardianship.
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First of all, I don't know who is my bigger hero, you or Doug, well, it will just have to be both of you...
Next, we have places here in Texas called Dairy Queen, of course we call it DQ, I will NEVER EVER EVER be able to eat there again..... that's a good thing, but they do have some killer ice cream...
Next, never ever be afraid to tell anyone that you did what you felt you should do.... none of here are judging you that;s for sure...... and it's not over until it's over, that's why a while back I stated how good this thread is for people possibly going thru something simialar....to know, it's not a one time situation..... it's not a final goodbye, but everyone will get it loud and clear... It's not your problem... and please tell Doug that there are some tired cranky cheerleaders out here who just adore him..... that the two of you have given us all hope and courage to stand up and say, NO... it's done... extra prayers for you and your family Lisa.....
t
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And thank you for sharing about your brother.... what a special and private thing you shared.... you are just awesome LIsa, God bless your heart.....
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And remember my telling you about showing up at prosecutors office threatening I would see someone or they would have to physically remove me? The laws were explained to me very clearly. Any child who knows of crimes committed against parent, or a parent is need of medical attention or in dire straits, and that child willingly does nothing? Then that child has committed a crime. That phone call today was , I believe putting me in a position do something or else. Someone said earlier in this thread that some are using my fear of the authorities to get my cooperation. And girls, I do have that fear. It's hard not to when you are sitting across from the very one who prosecutes for those crimes avaunt the elderly. So Doug was very careful with his words regarding the calls. They will be answered, but only on his phone.
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WOW! Lisa, that is some man you have - Go, Go, Doug!!! He rocks!!! he is doing exactly the right things, and following up too - AWESOME!!!

As for jane wanting to bring families together - maybe - (or maybe she is covering her butt as others have mentioned), but in any case that doesn't work for the good guys in dysfunctional families. They just get more abuse. Where is her head, and where has it been for 40 years????

It is great you found Johnny's grave - you needed that, and still do. I go places in town where Gordie (my son who was killed 10 years ago) and I went, and I get some peace. Once we got mac-hamburgers and sat down by the river looking at the trees in the fall . He ate some of my fries, and most of my sundae. It is a good memory, and I get a good feeling going back there.

I like this Johnny Depp quote - "I am always fascinated by people who are considered normal, because I find them the weirdest of all."

No one thinks you are nuts, Lisa. You are a wonderful. warm, sane woman, who has been put up with much too much, and is coming through it with flying colours. You are moving away from your mum steadily - going in the right direction! You are getting to the place you want to be.
Love and hugs (((((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))))
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Oh my! Let me just say, I've never encountered so many intelligent, wonderful people in one place ever before. You are all so amazing and smart and protective and hilariously funny! Lisa, you are LOVED!

The cemetary: Could that have been the first time you were able to exercise any real control over your life? And you reached out for the help you needed too. Please don't think of it as nutty behavior--it is not--it's wonderful. Was it the first step in getting yourself a life, other than the one imposed on you? You get your peace anywhere you can find it. Glad Doug knows you completely. And judgement here? Yes, we ARE judging you--to be a wonderful, wise and special woman who is truly a survivor. Our care and love for you is UNCONDITIONAL and safe. Remember that, OK? Yes, it's brave to bare your sole here, but geesh, hasn't it worked out well!!

Doug: your knight in shining armor, the envy of women everywhere. A true MAN and a rockin husband! Doug is a wonderful front-man for the Kick Ass Women-thank you, and thank you Doug, for the great way you love and protect your wife and family, and share them with us. (It's ok if you're secretly glad we are virtual)

Mom, oops, I mean DQ: Played JANE like a fiddle! Glad mom was on the receiving end and got to have someone cause HER a twitch for once-I think it's been a long time since she had a body jerk reaction-other than her recent withdrawal issue!

Jane: Was thinking she was young or inexperienced. 40 years-Really? Extra pathetic. Sorry Jane. Ask your supervisor for help and more training. Better yet. Retire. Keeping families together? Really, Seriously. I think Doug may have given her a twitch AND played her like a fiddle! A little double teaming was quite in order. She thinks she can dump POA duties on you, more like POW! If some progress isn't forthcoming, a nicely toned written record of her disregard for your multiple guardianship requests, especially after witnessing the abusive behaviors towards Lisa, with a copy to the agency director, should help protect you from the long arm of that absurd K-law and would effectively keep some pressure on her from the top down. Sometimes the best defense is a good offense-have you thought of contacting the co agency who handles Guardianships to let them know of the abusive behavior and your valid need for some distance. You could possibly find out if any paperwork has already been started too...

MIL: I'm glad she has been your rock. I'm so sorry she's having problems. It's a good thing to know when to tuck tail and run! I hope the right answer will present itself. I'm touched by what you wrote, beautiful.

Lisa: You're fierce. Be good to yourself.

Luv and hugs to you all.
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Lisa: I understand that you talked to the prosecutor's office...(was this Adult Protective Services) and they told you that, "Any child who knows of crimes committed against parent, or a parent is need of medical attention or in dire straits, and that child willingly does nothing? Then that child has committed a crime."

Lisa, this is a general statement. Yes, if you are living with your parent and they are in need of medical attention and you will not call an ambulance, then you have some responsibility in their demise or lack of treatment. It does not mean that you have to jump everytime a crazy sociopath says jump.

If you need to get an attorney to make you feel more secure, then do that, but make sure the attorney knows his shit. You don't need to be bullied by one side and then financially drained from another.

I am a somewhat common sense person and I have spent almost 40 years married to someone who has been in law enforcement. We are retired now, but he still works, part time, as an criminal investigator for the county we currently live in. We are from California and now living in Washington state. California is far and beyond Washington in training and sophistication where laws are concerned. Washington is a little backwards is our estimation. Maybe you state is a little backwards too, but it just does not make sense that a mentally ill mother is you burden in life. That's BS.

I'm going to go back to my original suggestion to you. Call the people you know in Adult Protective Services and tell them that your mother needs a mental evaluation and a guardian appointed. Tell them what they already know. That she is mentally ill, abusive and a threat to herself and YOU WILL NOT TAKE RESPONSIBIiTY FOR HER. You can document this in so many ways.

We will wait to see what happens as a result of Doug's talk with Jane, but do not expect that this will go away. The responsibility needs to be shifted. It can be done if problems continue.

I hate to say this, but what will we all do when your mom stops being a problem. I am embarrassed to say this, but no one who is honest on this tread could not admit that we will miss the shit your mom pulls. If she ever gets a guardian, we all want to be in email contact with her/him. Twitch, Twitch, Snicker, Sniker, Snort, Snort. Love Ya, Cattails.
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Ya know, Lisa, when things calm down and everyone is convinced DQ is Not Your Problem, and you don't have daily updates for us, I won't miss you on this thread. I'll enjoy reading your encouragement and advice on other threads!
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Well, I'll miss a whole thread devoted to Lisa, for sure! We'll all be glad when DQ quits being DQ....(crazy sociopath - Cattails, you crack me up), but having a place to check in has been great - like dialing a friend's phone number and I have to admit, I'm going to be sad when this phone number is disconnected! I'd twitch and snicker and snort here but I've don't want to spill my coffee. :)
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If the social worker has been in this business for 40 years that explains -now adays their training is so way above then that of years ago-she really needs to steo down to a lower position and let a newer grad take over-just like our director at our senior center has been at her job so long she is not putting her whole self into her job and I am so glad Lisa fought so hard to be heard that will do more than many complaints-I wounder if that facility is inspected like hospitals and nursing home are -at least in NY and any written complaints even those washed over are addressed upon inspection-like the time my husband has MRSA and there was no soap in the bathroom for vistors and staff to wash their hands.
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Austin, I totally agree. That was my 1st thought: hmm... They didn't even have social work degrees 40 years ago! No soap & MRSA-so gross. Saw a doc exam open MRSA, grapefruit sized, no gloves-went straight to typing w o soap or sanitizer. Yuck. PLS REPORT STUFF LIKE THAT YOU ENCOUNTER!!
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Oh come on ya'll this thread will be here for a long time, Lisa still has a few moutaints to climb and we are all helping hold the rope, and besides, this is how successful threads start and maintain, friendships have been made here, when things settle down to a mild roar, then we'll just check in with each other like we do elsewhere on this sight.... and someone is going to come on here and need what Lisa got... and now the number is added to by 1 who has been there done that.... And hey, tell Jane, I'll take her job in a heartbeat, and I AIN'T EVEN about getting families back together knowing what she knows about your situation... you do know you can at least request another case worker, but agree with many here, if the lady can't do her job, go above her head, which should only be about ass hole high as I really belive thats where HER head is....let us know the next installment...... sure takes my mind off my own stuff ..... hugs to everyone....
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Hey girls. Uneventful day. Took students on a field trip. Slept horrible last night. Just feeling blue today. Everything just taking it's toll on me. After yesterday I just feel like I took ten steps back. I know I shouldn't think like that. Went back and read a few hundred post. So I'm over the poor pitiful me party. I think I'll have an early night. I'll wake tomorrow in a good place. Yesterday, I think, was more brutal because of the withdrawals. So, I'm over it.
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Hugs across the miles to you Lisa.....
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Lisa, yout reactions are universal, who wouldn't be worn out! What's so universal is the speed and grace you have as you make such impressive progress creating a strong boundary that separates you from your mom's never-ending "stuff"! You keep ur chin up-you're doin' GREAT.
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Oops, should have read: "what's NOT so universal..."
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I know your right kimbee. Think I was having a massive pity party going on yesterday. I think I need to concentrate on my mil now. I wanna spend some extra time with her. I always love being with her, but I have to do it in such a way that she thinks I'm not "watching" her for the different signs of ALZ. She's very suspicious of the sil's and myself now. The last 2 years experiencing nh's(moms 20 days vacation) I would go around visiting and talking to patients who actual HAD reasons to be there. One day I made it to the section where the patients stayed who lived there. A woman was sitting in her chair with a doll laying across her lap and gently patting it on the back. She saw me and told me to get back to bed before I tell your father. Reading everything I get my hands about ALZ I just told her yes mam. That's the first time I really feared for my mil. Was this woman at one time strong like her? How fast did this progress? And then? How it must hurt the ones who love her best to see her like this. Have they ever been able to accept just what is. I mention on another thread last night I've been thinking about volunteering at a local nh. Yes, I think it would give me much needed experience, but also how cool to spread some love to men and women who have no family, or family who simply just live too far away to visit often. Any thoughts on this? Oh, plus, I have a friend who rented out her condo to move home and care for her mother who has some dementia. I've been trying to get her join ac. At times she feels like she's losing her own mind. I've told her about the caregiver stories on here and the excellent suggestions. She called last night and said you won't believe what she did at 3:30 this morning. Her mom woke up and was in her room screaming at the top of her lungs that the milkman ran over her dog. She said good grief, I was in a sound sleep and jumping up ran to the front door. Then it hit me. Her dog was in bed with her yapping away at her mother. By the time we hung up we had laughed so hard. I told her now see? Laughter is good. I just wish I could have seen her jumping out of that bed. I told her it was probably a blessing she was fully awake by the time her mom was screaming at her to get her shotgun so she could shoot the milkman. Heeheeheehee. Ok time to get the roast in the crockpot. Love to all.
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Doug called. He made the first of many planned phone calls to Jane. Has any paperwork been issued yet on the petition for guardianship? Well mr ford, it's a process. These things don't happen overnight. Yes Jane, I understand. And you just let me know if my calls are upsetting you. After watching the hell my wife goes thru I would never knowingly put another human being under that stress. So I'll be in touch again further into the week. lMAO. Twitch twitch
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Your Doug is Priceless!!!!
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Hahahaha! I had a big smile on my face when I read "And you just let me know if my calls are upsetting you." Now... if he only had a brother in his 20's for my daughter... :)
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Good morning everyone. Think I'll be hibernating this week. 100+ temperatures here in Louisville thru Monday. Relief centers will be open thru Monday at least.
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Volunteering? Pick me, pick me!! Does ur family need u for a while 1st? Don't you need some time? I'd be frazzled and need a little rest after As the W T A M. That said, u make great decisions and oh how lucky those pt's would be to get a little Lisa luv!!

Good ole SuperDoug! Look out mrs Jane- u really messed up-wonder if she got the forms out of her drawer yet? hehe. We know she' not busy "checking" on her tenants, she may be sidetracked by some twitching?

Here in NC, we have the same hot forecast. So off to flood my plants and garden before we head to the beach. Everybody stay cool! Luv, luv, luv u all!
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