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Lisa, as others have said, psychotic behavior in the hospital is not necessary indicative of a permanent condition. When I was in the hospital for undiagnosed diabetes I had weird hallucinations, delusions, and strange behavior. I later learned this is so common there is a name for it -- icu psychosis. I fully recovered from that! Police once had to be called to restrain my husband in the hospital. That level of destructive behavior went away as he recovered.

Take one day at a time, dear Lisa.
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Lisa, every time my mother has something that she perceives as traumatic (Alzheimer's) it throws the dementia forward. After she recovers she returns close to what was normal for her before the trauma. As everyone told you, the medication is probably part of it too.I am so sorry you and your family are going through this and your MIL as well. My mother received some privacy act notices a while back and she accused me and my sister of plotting her murder with unknown agencies. Stress throws them all out of whack plus it is upsetting to the family. Hugs to you and your family as you support her through this trauma.
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Sharyn: You have had so many years of dealing with your mom and her crazy way of seeing the world. God bless you and stay strong. You are a good daughter and a good person. Love, Cat
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Before going to sleep last night I called the hops to see how Mary was doing. They had given her Ativan. An hour before they were given permission for this drug my fill's sister was there with the preacher from their church to pray with her. This set her off again. My sil who has poa has requested no visitors allowed except children, spouses. We are all in agreement. She is in no shape.

We have already requested she be evaluated for dementia. They had already asked us if she had been diagnosed because of the severity of her behavior. We told them everything. How she refused to see a dr and her anger when brought up. And that all of our fears were she would be released without being tested. So we will be there this morning to speak with dr. Girls, when you want something done, talk to the nurse. My sil has the list of what this guy has told us to ask for. I wish I would have copied it. One of them was what I read on the ALZ website. Just can't think of the name of it at this moment.

Thank you so much for your love, support and prayers. I'm going to share with everyone what you have told me here. I want them to feel the hope you've given me. Her mental decline is so surreal. The nurse did tell us yesterday that when a sr with dementia taken out of their comfort zone it will sometimes escalate. I'll be back later with updates. Love you, Lisa
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((((((((((((((((Lisa))))))))))))))))) - don't know what to say. I know it hurts seeing her like this and also being on the receiving end even if you know it is not "her". Prayers continue for everyone, and for an accurate diagnosis, and good treament beginnin. Deep breaths, and hugs all around. Life just doesn't seem to let up does it?
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You're on my mind today, Lisa. Wish we could all be with you in our tights and tuna cans, standing behind you, giving you some strength, but you know we're there in spirit (which is probably better than being there in person anyway because you know Cattails would probably do something to get us all arrested, and Joan would look better in her tuna cans than me). Seriously though - my thoughts are with you today - I know this has to be tearing you up and my heart goes out to you. xxx, Judy
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Okay, here is the recipe....a glass of nice wine, a box of chocs, and a few teaspoons of determination.
Ask her to go.....when you try and try and try it does mean you fail and fail and fail. It means some problems just cannot be fixed.
We are not wonderwoman, we are sensitive human beings who like to dish out compassion and empathy but if it keeps getting slapped back in your face like a wet kipper, admit you can only solve some problems on the planet and sadly not all.
We are expected to understand and help and do all we can, but hell, you really sound to me like a nice family who has a gorgon of a Mum. Some people should never be parents....
Phone Social Services or go mad....that's the choice. Please do not let her get you even lower and destroy any self confidence you have left.
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Do you know, I just had to re-read the comment about wishing you had gone instead of your brother.....oh Lord, what kind of world are we living in that makes a woman into a mother who could say that to her own child.
I think when kids get to 12 to 18 a mandatory class should be done in school about parenting and respect for others, particularly older people and one's children of the future, it is more important than any chem or physics class....
I had the proverbial wicked stepmother from hell, she sent me to her wedding with no knickers on at age of 8, she made me drink squash with fat blue bottles in it. She forced me to eat porridge which I still cannot touch, and even when I said I would be sick if I continued. She made me continue and sit there until I threw up into a dish, then made me eat it again. She made me sit so I would deliberately be late for school.....it is an endless list.
BUT SHE DID NOT WIN!
Experiences of horror like you are going through CAN be overcome, I did it and you can too. It gave me nightmares for years after I ran away at 16. I could not walk past her without ducking slaps to the head, I was a nervous wreck.
SMILE AT HER AND TELL HER SHE WILL NOT WIN AND GET YOU DOWN AS YOU ARE A BETTER PERSON!
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Dear Lisa, sending today's prayers and peace your way. Kathleen
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Judy: Thanks for the smile. Haha Love Cat
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I just love you to bits, Cat! I just love this thread too. Well, not the present situation that Lisa and her family is in, especially now, but this thread is a comfortable place to be. Like a room full of people that you feel lucky to know.
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angiiiii, you will be happy to know that Lisa's mother was successfully evicted from Lisa's home. There has been a lot of drama and trauma since then, but Lisa is strong and is coping amazingly well. She gets great support from her in-laws. Right now her dear mother in law is in the hospital after a heart attack, and the signs of dementia MIL has shown recently are greatly intensified.

And that is where things stand now.
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Lisa...first let me say how sry i am that u r going thru such trauma with ur mil. I have read wat others have shared with u, n i jst wanted to share my own experience with u that i went thru wen dad was hospitalized twice in these last 11 mnths.

He was in the hospital, first go around, for a hip replacement in Oct. of 11.....This was my first experience with the term known as sundowners syndrome. He was so disoriented n confused, that i didnt recognize him as the dad i knew. Then, his behavior became extremely violent n aggressive to the point that he had to b restrained. He would say terrible things to me n mom, n i remember being so distraught, thinking that he would never b the same. I asked the dr, wat meds they had put him on, thinking that it was the drugs that may have been causing his behavior change. They told me they had given him Adivan, for anxiety, n a drug called Diluadid (spelling??) for pain....With agreement from his dr...we took him off the diluadid, n put him on a lesser pain med. He seemed much better after they made the change, but the sundowners continued...which i understand is very common in many patients who r hospitalized. I remember coming to see him one morning, n his arms were black n blue from the restraints. He had no recollection of the event.. I, on the other hand, was devastated. He was sent home with a prescription for Norco, another pain med. I noticed, that wen i gave him his dose, he would display similar behaviors of aggression. I called the dr...n said..."I'm not giving dad this med anymore. It's not safe for him or others around him." Dad ended up not taking anything stronger than Tylenol, bcuz he jst didnt feel he needed anything stronger. Between the months of Oct. n March..dad dislocated that hip replacement 6 times. Every time requiring ambulance transport to the hospital to do wat is called a reduction. At the time, i didnt realize that the ER was giving him dilaudid for the pain before reducing the hip back in place....once again....extreme confusion n agression returned. I finally told the ER staff, whom i got to kno on a first name basis, bcuz we were there every 10-15 days, that dad was not to have this drug, under any circumstance......Then comes the end of March, n the decision was made to put in a constrained hip, which is basically scewed directly into his pelvis, so that he would not dislocate. That hospital stay was the most difficult to witness. My sister flew in from Colorado to b with me, bcuz i was so scared to go thru another surgery without much support. Once again....dad shows severe signs of sundowners n extreme aggression. My poor sister didnt expect any of this, bcuz she had not witnessed him in that state before. I felt bad for her, bcuz dads aggression was directed towards her...He would say awful things to her, n i would jst do my best to diffuse it. His face changed, his eyes changed...he look as if he was possessed. Once again...i questioned the drugs they had been giving him....this time, i was Adivan n Norco....After talking to his dr..the best course of action to take with dad was to get him home. The sundowners episodes were completely overwhelming everybody, including the nursing staff. My sister n i spent 3 nites with dad, never leaving his side, to try to help keep him calm. I guess wat im babbling about is...the drugs that dad had been given were responsible for the dramatic change in his behavior, along with being in a small, white room with different people, always coming n going. It was jst too much . Once we got dad home n settled, he returned to his normal self (his "new" normal..that is)..His medical records indicate that he cannot have Adivan or Diluadid . To this day, dad recalls nothing of his stay in that hospital, although he recently awoke from a nitemare where he remembers kicking a nurse...which he did...n he was very upset about it for days, but we got thru it.

I dont kno if mil behavior change could b caused from the meds they have her on, but it is worth looking into, but i've also learned that, sundowners alone, can completely change a persons personality. I dont kno if this is of any help, but i jst thought i'd share my experience with u...My thoughts n prayers r with u Lisa...
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Lisa: I have heard a number of people who are caring for AL family members that Ativan has a bad affect on them Maybe others who know more about this can comment. Jeanne Gibbs, do you have any insight to Ativan and dementia patients?

Cat
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Beck it is good to share experiences especially sundowners it is very hard for families to see it happen if they do not know about it -even younger people get SAD in the winter which affects their mood. I saw sundowners myself with one of my husbands roomates one time when he was in rehab-the man's wife would get very upset with him-I explained what was going on but I do not think she believed me at the time that was what it was that was happening to him.
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Pain meds, pain itself, new unfamiliar surroundings, unfamiliar noise, too many faces and voices... it all contributes to this,,, and keep in mind we have had two full moons this month... S has been convinced he is not home for a week now....too many strange faces, there are 5 of us for round the clock care....M being in the bedroom, not where he can see her all the time, just too many changes for him.... I'm stressed, M is stressed and he picks that up too....so, Lisa, MIL will settle down once she is able to get back into her home and familiar surroundings.... she may never go back to who she was before, so be prepared for that also, and maybe she will..... but the fact she had no heart damamge says she wasn't without oxygen for too long....
We are all so sad that this is happening.... but at least the dementia is being addressed so one less thing to worry about on her return home....
Are the Dr's giving you any time line for her return???? And how is Doug and your FIL doing with all this... Doug must be devestated to see his mom like that.... tell him we are sending hugs and prayers for him too.... keep us updated...
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Hi everyone. We are home for the day. Cat, about Ativan. Dr told us today she will not be going home on this medicine. She had one dose when we left yesterday. When we arrived at the hospital this morning she was my mil again. Still with the same dementia. But without the aggression. Dr came in and spent 40 minutes with us. Blood pressure is wicked. Gone untreated he guesses for years. No surprise there. She won't go to drs. He's called in the pulmonary dr. Told us he's already ordered test. She was taken for cat scan today by orders of a nurologist. (spelling?) he has promised us she will not be released until every concern of ours has been addressed and we have our answers. He said there is no doubt about the dementia and we need to put a name on it. From my time with all of you, I know there are different types of dementia. The five of us sat there with tears streaming down our faces. I can't explain the relief we felt. He listened to us. So we went back in and sat with Mary and all he'll broke loose. She had slipped back to where she was yesterday. They had taken the straps across her off and loosely strapped her arms. Well she got them off while we were with dr and pulled her cath out. Screaming again she was going home. So for the second time she has been given Ativan. It is obvious it just worsens when we are there. So at 3 we left. We took fil to dinner and my sil's and Jen joined us. While we talked about what is being done for Mary, we got to the neurologist. We kinda went quiet and looked at each other. Soooo, I told them I was coming straight here to find out. So girls, please help us? What exactly is, or what would one be called in for? Is this the dr who will be involved with diagnosing her dementia? I laughed at my oldest sil when she said," or lord Lisa, what will those women think? That poor woman laying in a hospital bed has dumbasses like us caring for her?" so that started some laughter, and another round of lit's.
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Lisa, my mom was seen and diagnosed with a neurologist whose interest was dementia/parkinson/alzheimer diseases.
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My husband was diagnosed and is being followed by a behavioral neurologist.
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((((((((((((((lisa)))))))))))))))A neurologist deals with anything to do with the brain and nerves. That should include assessing dementia. I am glad Mary was better when you arrived, but sorry she got worse again. It is good the doc is aware of her high blood pressure now, and hopefully she will agree to treatment for that, and for her dementia. It could have caused her to have a stroke. I am so glad there was no damage to her heart. As others have said, being in hospital can trigger some weird behaviours. I have seen that in mother after surgery, and decided to stay out of the way as much as possible till she got past that stage. Laughter is a great stress reliever - something you and your family do so well.
You all have been going through so much these days. Hope fil is holding out, and his chemo has been successful.
((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))) and prayers for everyone This agng business is no fun - not for sissies as Bette Davis said, and thanks for the update - keep 'em coming!
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Yes, Lisa, the Neurologist would have ordered a cat scan to see if the see anything unusual in he brain, including past stroke, or TIA's-mini strokes, dementia (not sure if on cat scan or functional mri only-tangles of neurons-messed up electrical circuitry that controls function, where they are located determines which functions are affected, or atrophy-shrinking of the brain matter, which is equated with "dementia." Prior "infarc's" or strokes and TIA's are associated with Infarc demential (as is hx of uncontrolled hypertension-which of course is what leads to the TIA's and stroke. Infarc dementia is also usually seen as a step-wise decline over time vs. Azlheimer's type which is more associated with the atrophy, and a more gradual and continuous decline in memory symptoms. Mixed is a combination of those two types-some of each. Lewy Body dementia, has features of both Alzheimers, and Parkinson Disease and has brain differences associated with both diseases, and usually some visual hallucinations and sleep problems. Functioning and symptoms seem to fluctuate a bit. Jeanne is our resident expert here on that-I am just learning, but am feeling that is what my mom has. They are evaluating on-going to address the problems and determine if that is what she has. After learning more about it, I am convinced my FIL had that type, although he was dx w/ "Alzheimer's type". It is all a bit subjective for them to diagnose though. A diagnosis is not truly confirmed unless a post mortum autopsy is performed and the brain tissue is studied at that time. Lisa, when I diagonsed patients with serious mental illnesses, they and families were always sad, but also relieved to finally have a name for what was wrong, and a path to begin following to improve circumstances, and a way to begin talking about things. Not that anyone wants to have a loved one diagnosed with any kind of dementia, but it allows you to begin to deal with it. We all wish the options were better, but they know more than they used to,
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OOOPS: in that regard, some things that are helpful are known, and they are working on improved treatments like crazy. We love you and are here for you and your family through all of this. We are as Judy said, glad to be able to be comfortable here with each other--people you are really glad you know. Judy, I feel exactly the same way. Those of us here have learned from the true grit of the trenches. No shame in not knowing about something thing here. None of us did, until we had too. As Austin says, we are thankful to be able to share our unwanted experiences. Tell your SIL I can't imagine a better family to be in Mary's corner, taking care of her and loving her and FIL through this. We are crazy about you Lisa, and Doug, and are all thankful you have had that family to love and care for you. You have so deserved them! We are praying from afar and appreciate the updates. Hang in there our special friend: we'll get through this together. All of us, unified as one amazing tuna can kick ass force, thanks to our Cat. Love, hugs prayers for all of you, and restful sleep. kimbee
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Marys nurse Patrick called an hour ago. Mary was lucid and asked for Doug. So Patrick called dougs cell and said mom wants to talk to him. She asked where he was? Doug asked if she would like him to come see her and she said please. I'm scared. Wow. Patrick got back on the phone and told him they removed the restraints from her arms but have put a strap across her body. And he warned him she could change from lucid before he got there. If that happens arm restraints would go back on. She still thinks she is someone's house. Waiting to hear from Doug.
Thanks for confirming the neurologist for us. I've called sil's and told them.

Cat!!! How is dad doing? Any changes. I've thought of you often the past 2 days. All my prayers I've included your family. Love to all of you my dear friends!
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Lisa take care you know we all love you and are there with you in spirit -I am looking at the same moon as you are.
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I really understand where you are coming from. My mother was absolutely horrible for the first year she lived here. She threw things at us when we would walk by. Stole everything and anything she found in the house. She said she would not move to assisted care and that she was the boss of the house etc...etc... One day I finally had it. I called the division of aging and they sent out a social worker. He was ready to remove her that very day. I just couldn't do it though, because they were going to put her in a mental ward. I call a behavior hospital and they admitted her for med changes and observation. For the first week she was horrible. They let her know she was not coming back here unless her behavior changed. By the forth week, she had made so much progress, I was astounded. I brought her back on a trial basis, It is now two years later and I am not saying it is all peaches and cream, but she does know now that she must be respectful and reasonable or out the door she goes. I have learned to distract her and to just take a deep breath and skip right over the crazy stuff. I lock up the pills and just pretend like she did not even say anything when she demands them. If she won't take her meds when she is supposed to, I have learned to not say a word, I just stand there until she does. At first it was hours that I stood there silently waiting. Now she just takes them because she knows I won't fight about it and I won't leave until she does. It has been hard but I can see major progress when I look back
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Madhouse, you have patience! I cannot see myself standing there for hours. Did you have a book while waiting? Or the TV on? Well, I admire you for being able to think through the problems and came up with a very acceptable outcomes on all fronts! It's obvious that I'm going to have to work on being patient and thinking "outside the box". Thanks for sharing your story! And Welcome to AC!!
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Lisa: I am thinking of you right now. You've had lots of info about the neurolist (sp), but hopefully he should be able to do a brain scan on Mary and see where the damage is and how it affects her interaction with reality. Hold his feet to the fire and ask him questions. What else can you do.but gather information?

Kimbee: Thanks for citing me as the leader of blue tights and tuna cans. That may well be the highlight of my life, if only because I have met such wonderful women here and if my crazy jokes made you laugh, then my heart is truly happy.

Judy, you are just my soul sister nut case. I love you to bits too.

Regarding my dad, he is between two worlds. One of my brothers arrive tomorrow to see him. My sister will not be coming. My other brother may come later in the week. I am so tired. I can't be a peace until my dad is.

Lisa, I want to say that you should not look at my dad's situation and weave it into yours. My dad is not going to get better, his situation will only get worse. In some respect, the same is true of Mary, but I just hope you have more good time,

My heart breaks for you and it breaks for me too, I hope you will have more time with Mary and that her cognitive skills will improve. I want you to have that chance to talk to her and reach her. I am so sad for those who are old and their lives are coming to an end. That's where my dad is now and I just don't want him to suffer a long demise.

We are all struggling with these issues. Doing our best to keep them safe and secure, both mentally and physically. I have spent much more time thinking about how I will die and how I will have to take that journey alone. It's what I am seeing now and understanding in a much more personal way. It's something we all have to face.

No answers, but just my thoughts at this time. Love you all and so blessed to have you as friends. The very best of friends.

Love Cat...
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Just as a matter of information: A brain scan can provide useful information in many cases. That is why it is done, I guess. But many forms of dementia do not show up on such scans. Scans can be helpful but they are not a comprehensive diagnostic tool.
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Hi girls. Mary is doing so much better. And Jeanne, you are right. We spoke with her neurologist this morning during rounds. She first wanted to rule out any more threatening situation such as a brain tumor. She told us she works backwards by first ruling out the worse case scenario. And although Mary is back to herself, herself means a woman with dementia. Mary has given us numerous explanations why she is there. Cancer, constipation, and from 15 years ago when she sat on a cactus at the edge of her flower bed. Cat scan showed no tumor. They will not move her out of ice because she is a flight risk. Instead of straps, they have her in a harness. Doug woke me in tears when he arrived home last night. He was so choked up when he said mom is back. And he said they told him there is no guarantee she won't have these episodes while going thru all these test. Our main fear is her lungs now. Her cough is very wet. We are getting ready to travel a long road. Ray finally realized he needs help in and out of hospital. I borrowed a wheelchair from a friend, and we are going to buy him a walker tomorrow. He is so happy and relieved today.
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Not ice. Icu. :))))
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