The cow isn't the only one who lost its life.

My mom isn't a narcissist either, and on the whole she and I were always pretty good friends. Unfortunately the woman I thought I knew has physically become bottomless pit of need and mentally/emotionally become almost completely absent. She isn't mean and angry, I am, and I hate myself for it. Do I want her to die? ... no, but I can't understand what this half life is that we are both trapped in.

Noor, your message fit right in here. We don't wish anything but good for them. But we also wish it for ourselves. The balance can get lopsided in caregiving. We can end up feeling so guilty for not being the best caregiver ever. Then we get messages of guilt from other people when we're not. Those messages weigh even heavier on us when we already feel guilt. Isn't it strange, because caregivers should be feeling useful and good about themselves instead of guilty about not being perfect.

I can relate to almost all that I've read here.

I love my mother, but resent the fact that she now resides with me. I feel doubly guilty because on balance I'm the angry one, not her. Yes, she's a narcissist, but one of the milder variety - not a screamer and yeller - more of a quietly manipulative one. I've only recently realized she's a narcissist because she was so stealth about it on so many levels over the years. I didn't realize till recently that the nasty, unfeeling comments she'd make to me on occasion, and her silence toward me when displeased was all narcissism. Yes, she did some emotional damage to me that I'm still figuring out and coming to terms with. Still, she wakes up happy every morning, and is a kind person and super easy to get along with. Seriously.

That's my double guilt - she's very pleasant to deal with and very unobtrusive and not demanding. I know there are folks on this site who would give anything to caregive for someone like her. I feel such guilt because as far as caregiving goes she IS basically very easy to deal with. She is 87 and has vascular dementia, had a few strokes, talks vegetable soup - to the extent that I can't tell when she's grounded in reality or sundowning. She's somewhat incontinent - we do have s**tsplosions on a regular basis - usually at night. She's lost weight - her normal weight is 116 - 120 lbs, but now she's down to 75 lbs. She's so frail! Cannot eat most foods as they give her diarrhea. Also when SHE gets mad, she refuses food (which she always does AFTER I've made the meal, never before).

Anyway, I'm an only child, single, and a loner. I'm used to living by myself and I love it. I do though have a wonderful boyfriend whose been through the worst of this with me and tells me he's in it with me for the long-haul - what a blessing he is! I just turned 60 last week.

I cannot put mom in a home - will not, actually - because aside from the fact that the nursing homes here in Florida are the absolute worst, she's a fall risk, and state law prohibits them being belted in or restrained for ANY reason (it would 'damage their self-esteem'). I know this because she had a 3 month stay in rehab for a fractured pelvis - the stay was so protracted because while there she was falling all the time and fractured on 3 separate occasions her left pelvis, right arm, and left shoulder. I will NOT place her because it would kill her in short order. AND as I'd said, the 'care' they're given is abominable anyway.

I'm lucky to have a great therapist, who says my anger is normal, and not to be so harsh on myself for my resentment, anger, etc., etc. he says I judge myself too harshly when I do get upset with her. I feel awful for not wanting my mother around and I feel awful for being angry with her for just being here and disrupting MY life. Oh, I almost forgot, I have a neuro-muscular condition that under the best of circumstances leaves me drained even on the best of days.

Can ANYONE relate? Thanks!
(PS...perhaps I should have started a new thread instead of posting this here....?)

Boy oh Boy, I totally get it! The race IS LONG!

In fairness to the people who are still in the middle of the marathon, a race usually seems sweeter and more pleasant after it has been run.

Gershun, it is indeed sad how many caregivers are hoping for the end to come. But the reality for so many is an elder who is nasty, has a multitude of Heath problems, and then there are the elders who were horrible abusive parents and now expect the abused kids to sacrifice their lives to caregiving.

And of course some elders are "Easy Keepers" , sweet, loving and thankful for the care they receive. My folks are sweet people, quite stubborn, but all in all pleasant. However the quality of life is at about 1%. My poor mom can barely get through each painful day and has to watch my Dad with dementia fade away more each week. I don't wish for death but I sure hope they don't go another 10 years like this. I hope I've got ten years left for christs sake!

My dad isn't a narcissist person, he's greatly loved, and I'm going to miss him beyond measure when he's gone. However, I fully get so many parts of this. It's miserable to see him so frustrated with his quality of life. He can't do much of anything that he used to enjoy. He's humiliated by the bladder and bowel accidents that are common, he walks with such effort even with a walker, and even with all the added attention he's crushingly lonely without my mom. He tells me almost daily that he's ready to die, and it's not depression, he's simply had enough. Yet he's on a boatload of meds that keep him here and he gets that same amazement by his docs at how "well" he's doing. What none of them see, despite my attempts at pointing it out, is the poor quality of life. They each only see things from the lens of their specialty, so the cardiologist doesn't care that he pees himself, the urologist doesn't care that he gets short of breathe trying to walk, the dermatologist doesn't care that his arthritis hurts so bad he doesn't feel like moving, etc. They only like seeing that the particular part of the puzzle that's theirs seems to be okay. And because he's lonely, he likes going to all these docs! And everyday I try somehow to make things better and never really feel like I do. I'm thankful for this group and others who get it.

Gershun, your mom sounds like she was a sweetheart. The parents on this thread are the narcissists, the borderline personality, the users and abusers that suck the life out of their caregivers and complain that there is not more left. The ones who frequently didn't take care of their own parents, but demand that their children take care of them at their home (my in-laws hope, but my absolute deal breaker in marriage denied event to them and my husband). Windyridge referenced a different thread that mentioned hoping for death, but I can understand if someone is that badly off thinking it might be kinder for caregiver and patient.

Gershun, most caregivers who are "wanting" their parent to die are not actually wishing for the parent's death. They are wanting to put down the load they've been carrying and get back to their own lives. Some are wanting the years of suffering to end, because they share the suffering. The caregivers are wanting to wake up in the morning without feeling the rushed and stressed. I don't know who on here said anything about wishing for their parent's death, but I do understand what they are saying. It is saying that the burden has become so great and the suffering too long for whatever reason. If we look at it in that light, we know that wishing for death is understandable.

Unfortunately, there are many caregivers who are so beaten down by it all that they wish for their own death. I understand that, too. I wish we had some better solutions to help caregivers. The problem is so big, since many elders need 24/7 help for years.

I haven't read the whole thread but am I in the minority when I say that it's kind of sad that you wish the news had been bad and your Mom is heading off to death?

Sense of humour is great. I'm all for that but it saddens me how many care givers on here are just hoping and praying for their loved ones to die. Yes, it's hard. I've been there. But in my case, I adored my Mom and would love it if she was still alive.

And before I get a big pile of whoop a** responses.......let me clarify that this is just my opinion and I'm throwing it out there.

Another thing you can do is use your right-mouse-click copy for your post before you submit it. Then if it gets lost you can paste it again. I lost a long, carefully thought out post the other day without copying it. Rats. I didn't have the mental energy to write it again.

Well, just learned a very important lesson. Write your comment in Word on the PC or Notes on the ipad, then copy it to here. I left this tab, came back, and all was lost :(

I'd love to try again, but I smell something funny downstairs...

Quickly, I've been reading Leaving Home by David Celani, and another book of his re Fairbiarn's theory. Really good re the mind toggling between hope and hatred.

Thanks for sharing your stories, insights, and opinions. You all are so helpful!

Thanks golden23,Pam and Jessie bell for addressing my Mom. All you guys are correct.Interesting that Dad died at 90,( so he was one of the 30%) Mom had sepsis in 2012,brought her back to life, broken hip in 2013 and got it fixed perfectly. And a bunch of illnesses in-between and kidney cancer and comes back stronger than ever except for increase dementia. Does not know how to pick out clothes herself, does not know how to work the heat or air conditioner controls, can not follow simple direction for micro-wave or oven.. Cannot make out bills anymore etc.etc. ( you get the idea). But she sounds very well spoken on phone. So she can fool people quite well. When she was living with us she went after my husband when the visiting nurse was there to see her never the less. The nurse saw what happened and said we had to get her in assisted living or someplace so she would not hurt anyone. My so glad that someone else saw. So that is where she is now except they would not take her into the regular side of AS living so she is in the dementia side. Could not keep her in our house any longer because I have enough trouble taking care of my husband. Thanks again! And littledie please keep posting. There are great people on this site.

My inlaws never cared for a parent either, but he saw the care that went into my own parents, a delightful shared adventure along with my 5 siblings, and thought it Perfectly appropriate to infringe on our home, marriage and life, after all we had 2 vacant bedrooms!

I came from a pretty normal family, with great loving parents and all 6 of us very close to one another. 5 of us have had to deal with an inlaw living with them for some time or another, but non as long as us. It's not fair, it's not right, but there you have it. I was brought up knowing that it's just what you do. Boy was I Wrong!

Littleedie, like you, we had my husband's Dad living with us since his wife passed away 13 years ago, a Narcissistic himself, he groomed us both together and independently, saying things like "if anything should happen to Mother", or "ya know I cant live alone, if Mother dies, can I come live with you?", and definitely a lot of carrot dangling, even going so far to him saying he will buy all sorts of big ticket items for our home and such.

My MIL passed away, funeral stress with his other 2 kids, our youngest child (girl, 21) moved out, built a big shed to house all of the things he couldn't get rid of (never to be spoken about or seen again), and 2 weeks later, FIL moved in. This is a second marriage for both of us (though together now for 31 years) but we both brought 2 kinds each into this marriage, so we had Never been Alone in our marriage, Never!

He's PERFECT! that is his descriptive word, "the Dr says I'm Perfect", "My lab tests are Perfect", "I feel Perfect just Perfect"! I hate that word!

For me, his Narcissism slowly revealed itself over time, it was leaning curve for me, as I had never knowingly dealt with one on a regular basis, let alone lived with one. He kept it well hidden in the short, frequent (few hours) visits we had with them over the years. I didn't know anything about Narcissism, until I joined this site, nor did my husband, he just thought his Dad was Tyrannical when he was growing up! My husband comes from a very Dysfunctional family. All 3 siblings were/are completely disconnected.

He moved in, and 4 months later he was diagnosed with stage 4 Mantle Cell Lymphoma (agressive). He did very well with treatment, 11 months of Chemotherapy, and has been on a Watchful Waiting status ever since. The long slow decline, every day consuming our independence, well you know. He's nearly 87 now, and Perfect except for mobility issues, his Narcissism (which he knows nothing about), and he is now heading down the rabit hole of Dementia, and his long term memory is shot.

My husband and I have not been away alone together in about 4 years now, except for one overnight last Feb, when my daughter stayed with him.

No help nor interactions with his other 2 kids whatsoever. They live out of state, and now I know why. Both of them took well advantage financially of their parents, probably because of the abuse and suffering they dealt with as kids, and my husband (the baby of the family) was the only one who stayed close and kept them in our lives, with our 4 kids, we actually had a good relationship with them, while his Mom was alive. He watches TV in his study from early morning til bedtime, while my husband waits on him hand and foot. That's our life now, until we can figure out other suitable living ideas, that he can afford, as I don't want him back on my porch, should his money run out while living in Assisted living, but we are trying to figure out this type of arrangement now, he's ruining our lives. After 13 years of this, it's our time now! Weve definitely made some mistakes in this living arrangement. We never should have promised him he could live with us, and we should have gotten him into a Senior apartment from the get go. Livecand learn huh?

Anyhoo, welcome to this site! Ive made great friends and have learned so much! Welcome!

That peak in adrenaline can add a lot of energy. I don't know how I would handle that kind of nasty. Probably from a safe distance. That really peeved me that she pushed your husband down, Cher. I've heard that mean people live forever, so you may be right that she'll be one of the 3%. Heaven help you and us.

cher - my mother was the same. The nastier she got, the better she looked. She thrived on outbursts while the rest of us were wrung out and exhausted. I agree with Pam - get her away from you and your family or you get away from her. Mother was also uncommonly strong when she was in a rage. At 17 I was very fit and strong, and she had just had serious surgery, but she still wrestled me to the floor on one occasion. It is crazy.

Cher, save yourself and your daughter. Get away from her.

Oh Gosh JessieBelle, My Mother just turned 92, dementia, mobile(especially when she is mad)chases you down the hall at great speed yelling " look at me I'm a cripple." Pushed my sick 6' husband down on the floor who is suffering from pancreatic cancer. And complains about everything. Nothing is good enough for her. The nasty she gets the more color and healthy she looks. I kid you not! But she has trouble pulling her pants up and is #1 incontinent. I do think that she will be one of the 3% that will live til 100 or greater. By that time I will be dead. All her relatives are dead except me and my 29 year old daughter. wits end so the above stats are very up setting.

I saw the SS stats the other day. 30% of people are living to 90 and about 3% are living to 100. My mother joined the 30% last month. If she joins the 3% I won't be one of the 50% that makes it to 80. I'll be lucky to make it to 70 if I don't make some changes.

Through a series of god choices and good fortune, I was able to retire on a full service retirement at age 46. My husband retired at the same time on a disability retirement. He started a second career with an airline and we fly free. Life was good. My children are at the perfect age to travel and we set off to see the country, visiting 32 states in two years.

Then mom moved in (cue the music) Ba Da Duuum.

Yes, I signed up for this. But, when I did she was in good enough shape that she could have traveled with us or be left home alone for weekends. My kids are old enough that they can stay home while I go out shopping or whatever I want to do..

Mom declined so fast that we cannot travel, we can't all go out together unless we make arrangements for someone to come in. She drives me so crazy that I took a part time and later full time job just to get away during the day.

So, here I sit, 1 3/4 years in. She's too frail for my family to have a life yet too strong to leave this world so that we can get our lives back.

When I hear about people over the age of 84 still active and able, I am jealous.

When I hear of people living into their 90s, I am afraid.

I feel like I have been cheated somehow.

The theme of narc mums is "divide and conquer". They appoint a golden child(ren) and a servant child. The golden child(ren) provide them with what is called their "Narc Supply" of attention, praise etc, They often get financial goodies in return and are seen by narc mum as being the wanted extension of self, accomplished, beautiful etc. thus ending up with an exaggerated self of self if they fall for that. They are users as are all narcs.

I am pretty sure it is not you. You are the servant child expected to take all abuse and do all the work of caring for mum. The sibs are taking their cues from the golden child and your narc mum, so your needs are not to be considered. And because you are not joining in this toxic unhealthy game, you normal response to their behaviours is seen as you being at fault. Believe me, BTDT, and questioned myself until I realized what the game was, and that no matter what I did, it would never be enough or right, I would always be criticized, and that my needs meant nothing to them.

It is typical for narcs to hook you into their service with money or promises of money and future inheritance. They will ask you to leave your job and/or friends and/or family to come and look after them and make it look attractive and worth your while. Then, whammo, you are caught in the sticky web and the spider predator is approaching with glee. The promises come with many strings attached and things promised for the future can change very quickly. You are caught in the web and being drawn towards the center.

If you are having a lull now, I doubt it will continue. This is to lull you onto a false sense of security so you continue in your servitude. The leopard does not change its spots. Keep looking at brochures.

Boundaries - by all means establish and maintain boundaries. They are necessary. However, be aware of this: the effort required to maintain and even, at times, tighten the boundaries is humongous. I found I was frustrated and mentally/emotionally exhausted by working against the continual pressures that were eroding my boundaries. It was taking up too much of my available energy. I finally decided that my only other avenue was escape i.e. to decrease contact. This has allowed me to "have a life". A narc will suck the energy out of you, thus keeping you focused on them (they want to be the center of your universe, it makes them feel important) and preventing you from having a life of your own. If you can continue to fight this, you are younger than I, and have more energy, keep doing things for you. Learn to detach emotionally from your mother and your sibs (read about detaching with love, codependency and being proactive vs being reactive) maybe you can come out of this having grown and not being continually hurt. It is a very tall order. Past hurts surface and get reinforced by present ones.

I have ended up being a distant caregiver with POA medical and financial. Mother is in a facility where they understand her problems, look after her well and she is 5 hours drive away from me. I agreed to be POA as I would not want my worst enemy to be under the care of my narc/sociopath sis. It hasn't been easy even with the distance, but it is doable. Has my health suffered - yes. The latest stats are that 40% of care givers die before the person they care for. Think about it.You deserve a life. ((((((hugs)))))

*tome :)

Why the sib thing has come to bother me so much? I can't really get my head around it, decide how much of it is just me. There's long-time step sibs too, one who she fawns over, the others not. When their father was on his deathbed, she only asked the one to come. Isn't that nice? The One was delighted, rather than thinking it was unkind to the others.

I know everyone believes we were treated very badly by them. Now, my bio sibs and the fawned over step and one other step can't just send cards that say I hope you have a wonderful day, but handwrite You're the Best Mommie in the whole wide world! and You deserve respect and so much more! Gifts, weekly phone calls. Did I get a call before one of them comes, What would you like to do? What do you think would be a good idea for the visit?

We used to have fun, be pals. One sib I used to be very close to, she's done the most around here, and does do things that support me...like sent me a minifridge for my serenity closet, so I wouldn't have to run the recliner gauntlet to get to the downstairs fridge (had to sneak it upstairs, narc mom would think having one is too dangerous and expensive. She loves to nag and worry about nothing, ignore genuine concerns). But then the sib just go lights out on me while I know she's writing long smoochie emails to the best mommie in the whole wide world. Wtf did I ever do to any of them?

Brother does nothing to help. Shocking, I know. But does do smoochie lovey mommie goo goo. But, would never entertain the thought of wiping poo up off the floor or even coming here in person.

Plus, when they go overboard with smoochie mommie lovey, it just makes it harder for me to live in the reality around here, like I'm just sullen because when she treats me badly, I don't smoochie lovey in response. We are making progress though. We went to the neighborhood Christmas dinner party tonight and she didn't attempt to humiliate me in front of everyone, not even once! Yah!

It's work to keep boundaries, get her to keep one foot in objective reality, keep her off my back. They don't live with the day to day.

Or something like that? I feel like going mute about it all is the best idea, right now. It would be like quicksand to broach the subject. I think it's still the adjustment phase, still trying to make my coping plan into habits. Plus, the holidays can make my thoughts go into a tailspin. And, the choose your battles thing.

I guess you can always tell who the newbies are on this site, writing tombs, all the backed-up venting to vent :)

Glad to hear you were able to have good times and are planning more! That's inspiring.

Tell us about the sib relationship issues. Mine is a narc too. Surround the house with a moat, put crocodiles in it, up the drawbridge...'nuff said.

Ah the closet. For me it was that bathroom. Go to the bathroom and cry. The live-in nanny who lasted 9 months did the same.

Edie, you are young I make 104 - 9 +56 to be 69. That's 10 years younger than I am now and I have lived a couple of life times in the last 10 years. Had a sig other, we did some interesting things, traveled a bit, moved mother 4 times from one facility to another, survived the evac of our whole town due to a massive forest fire, broke up with sig other and am now ready for the next 10 years.

I cannot stand the nasty remarks. I leave. Now she is largely past that with vascular dementia but I still can't visit for often or for long - PTSD.

Do you really intend to do this for another 10 years? You thought she was near the end. I get the "How wonderful your mother is still alive!" and the good genes thing. I just look at them, speechless. Mother had her parents visit for a week a year and her bro and his wife looked after them the rest of the time while she traveled and lived a "normal" life.

Vinegar really is the best. We're fortunate to have cleaners come one hour every other week and help with big chores. After the usual round of idiotic arguments about any kind of housekeeping improvement (ex: I sort laundry into the classic categories because only fusspots wouldn't put a pooped-on bathmat in with lingerie) I got her to agree to have them start using vinegar instead of those nasty "perfumed" chemicals that stink worse than the first stink and gave me a sore throat for two days. The cleaners were delighted too.

If you are concerned about any sort of fungus....rinse with a bit of apple cider vinegar. Seriously, best killer of bacteria, fungus, etc I've ever encountered. Get the unfiltered, unprocessed stuff.

My girlfriend with chickens showed me its many uses. She used to buy expensive additives to keep water clean for chickens, keep the perch clean. Then she learned about ACV. Sprays it on, wipe it on. Takes very little. Leaves no odor when dry.

The more I learn about its uses, the fewer chemical products I buy and use.

Thanks Willie. I've heard using a hair dryer helps with fungus, originally heard re diaper rash, so maybe we are on topic. Loved your comment re "the curse". We've been using that term for decades to describe the "family dynamics." Now, it's "once the curse is lifted". Terrible, dark, but the term just fits :)

Amazingly, things have been better this weekend, was sending away for the brochures last week and may not need them so soon after all, glad to feel the funk lifting a bit.

A little off topic, but when the kids were in university they used to wear beach sandals or shoes in the shower, no athlete's foot or plantar warts that way :)