Did Hospice rush your loved ones death?

I remind you folks who have said Hospice killed your loved one---they did my Father also. My Mother and I were furious and so upset. There are a few on here who get paid to promote Hospice--or enjoy death! It's almost sickening. I have heard that as it is a very big money maker today. If you hear someone constantly saying "Oh you poor soul" and making comments such as "yes we give moist lip gauzes and back rubs and turn q hour and we watch respiratory rates slow below 12, etc., that means they really dig their work of death. Hogwash! I've never seen them turn q hour constantly unless the family is there, then obviously they will put a show on for you! Run for your lives! Trust me it's a big corporate business. And those who love it so much usually try to make you feel guilty for speaking against Hospice. I feel no guilt man. I know what happened to my loved ones. I am also an RN and PA! Don't even attempt to belittle me. It won't work.

One thing I have noticed, vast majority those writers who come on as anti-hospice never once had written on these forums on Aging Care prior to their love one passing on. Never asking our recommendations for whatever they find on this journey of elder care.

And why did they seek out a website on elder care long after the fact? The reality of doing this doesn't make sense. Unless they still need to point a finger at someone or something.

Wish people would realize that the death time-table is the same for the love one whether they use Hospice or not. The question is, do we want our love one to pass over pain free or not. I know for myself, I prefer it be pain free.

timbuktu, thank you that was a very nice post . I am glad you took the time to read all the comments. That must have been a marathon.t . Like SueC and many others I am not wasting energy on this topic.

Where to begin. I agree that not all hospices are created equal. Are we sure that Markmedsur1 isn't an "internet troll".? I have refrained from responding until I could read most of the posts. I think I will post on this thread just to keep anybody who is thinking about hospice or has a loved one on hospice from getting BAD information. My mother was just placed on hospice last Sat. She is alert, mobile, and pain FREE! at present. I ask LOTS of questions. I know the phone numbers of the nurse, social worker and MDS that write the pain prescriptions. I communicate daily with my mother,see her frequently at the AL where she is, I know and talk to the people that care for my mom and give her meds. I also had the BIG TALK with my mom years ago when things were calm about what she did and didn't want so I wouldn't have to guess when the time came when she wouldn't be able to verbalize.There will be no ventilator, dialysis, feeding tube. She will still be treated with antibiotics if needed, she has her cpap with oxygen at night, she gets 3 showers a week from a wonderful nursing assistant from the hospice. I also asked very hard questions about time frame and changes I might expect from the spreading of her cancer. No one but God him or herself can give an exact answer to time frame, we as humans can only give educated guesses. The time frame depends on so many factors, each person is different. Also, things can change literally in a heartbeat,if someone tells you 6 months, that is an estimate, it isn't written in stone. It could be days, weeks, months, or minutes, know one really knows. My mom's insurance pays 100% for hospice care thankfully. I know that the internal organs that are being effected by the cancer I can expect to possibly see seizure activity: again talking with the hospice nurse and keeping daily and frequent COMMUNICATION is imperative so that misunderstandings don't occur. There is already a plan in place for the meds that would be needed if seizures occur.You as family if you are going to be involved with this process have a responsibility to educate yourself on your loved one's illness and possible physical changes you may see in them. It is beyond hard to watch someone you love literally become physically unrecognizeable as their medical condition worsens.I have only had one complete experience with hospice 17yrs. ago with my dad and it was a positive one. Now I am at the beginning of my 2nd hospice experience with my mom. Her journey will be different as her medical problems are different than my father's were. If you have concerns about the care a hospice is giving your loved one,make them known, you can call their corporate office. However, unless you are the one with the medical care power of attorney you may not have any say so or you are trying to go against the loved one's advanced directive things may not go like you want.For those that are only children like myself, hang in there, having siblings doesn't necessarily make things easier. And for those with siblings,keep in mind that all families are dysfunctional,there is no Brady Bunch family. As your family dynamics will allow COMMUNICATE with each other,get your feelings out in the open before emotions get to high. Many of the negative posts about hospice,well we do have free speech but it doesn't necessarily mean that the speech is correct. Also please don't wait until your loved one is incoherent with disease and pain,so many people wait to long to involve hospice. I am glad I have engaged hospice at this point in my mother's care, my mother's recent MRI helped me with that decision and also the fact that she and I had talked about what she wanted before she got sick.She may even live longer that what the MDs have predicted simply because her pain is so much better controlled. In many cases you don't have to "knock" someone out to control their pain. And even if she doesn't live as long as predicted I do know that her wishes of not being in pain and anxious will make the time she has a much better quality of life.

Hospice ended my father's life--cruelly and systematically. His is a cautionary tale. He was put on hospice on April 17th--approved for 6 months. Unfortunately, he was an outlier, and surviving was his downfall. Hospice wanted to take the money and run, and declared (out of nowhere) that my father was in "complete systemic failure" on the 6th of October. When I pressed for an explanation, the horrible, ESL nurse suggested that I read the "blue brochure". She then proceeded to forbid my mother from feeding or hydrating my father (who, days before, had been weak, but happy, hungry, and conversational). We watched my father die of hunger and starvation at the hands of these beasts, who wanted him to leave this world--and their care--by the end of this 6-month stay. He passed on October 15, 2017.

I will warn everyone NEVER to consider the organization known as Willow Tree Hospice, headquartered in Kennett Square, PA. May that beastly organization start its own "journey" into the afterlife.

As a PS: this organization, upon learning that we have questioned some of their methods, have now denied my mother the care and support she was supposed to receive for a year after my father's death. They prove their own guilt.

So yes, hospice absolutely hastened--and cruelly engineered--my father's death. I am sick over this.

Off all the things in the world to be pissed off about, HOSPICE!?

I agree with Sue. I’m sick of the nut bag crap this thread attracts. I’m gone. Never even gonna look at this thing.

I suggest everyone bail on this mess and let the crazies  have it.

Over and out.....

Facts are stubborn things Sue. Anyone can do a google search and see all the sites where people are angry with Hospice for big profits are raping the Medicare system or killing people off. There are so many sites I can't read them all. You'd have to be a darn fool to not notice the corruption of Hospice. We warned about this years ago. My Uncle who was a Doctor sure did. He was right. So was my Mom and I also stand firm.

KEY FINDINGS
#1 The U.S. hospice industry has quadrupled in size since 2000. Nearly half of all Medicare patients who die now do so as a hospice patient — twice as many as in 2000, government data shows.

Yes, that's more or less what you'd expect. a) The number of people reaching end of life has also increased dramatically by virtue of demographics; and b) fewer people are dying in hospital - which most people when questioned say they do not want to happen - because there is now a better-known and more widely available alternative.

#2 Since 2006, the U.S. government has accused nearly every major for-profit hospice company of billing fraud.

Fraud or error? Billing practices will be the subject of regulation; correction of poor practice is one aim; corporate malpractice needs to be brought to light in any industry. The system appears to be working, then.

#3 Hospices bill by the day, and stays at for-profits are substantially longer than at nonprofits (105 days versus 69 days).

I thought you were outraged at hospices bumping people off to save money. Or are you outraged at their forcing dying patients to linger, suffering, for the sake of profit? It is possible to be outraged at both, of course, I grant you - a sort of moral Morton's Fork with which to prod your target.

#4 In 2009, for-profit hospices charged Medicare 29 percent more per patient than nonprofits, according to the inspector general for the health service.

Yes. What would you expect? Non-profits reinvest surplus cash in their business. Profit-making organisations have dividends to pay, which they achieve by charging their customers more to create a fatter surplus. That's how capitalism works.

#5 The average hospice stay has increased dramatically since 2000, regardless of diagnosis, a HuffPost analysis of Medicare data found. This has led to a surge in expenditures: $15 billion in federal dollars in 2013.

So they ARE cruelly keeping their patients alive? Or they're wickedly (not to mention illegally) hurrying them off? Surge in expenditure: yes. Surge in number of patients, earlier referrals to palliative care, advances in end-of-life treatments. Living costs money. Living when you're dying costs a lot of money.

#6 Despite widespread allegations of fraud and abuse, regulators have consistently rated hospice as a lower priority for inspection than traditional health facilities like hospitals.

I too would like to see more effective and more frequent and more constructive, improvement-oriented inspection of all health and care facilities. But it's expensive, and implementing the recommendations would be expensive again. Where would you get the money? Or, rather, what other services would you take the money from?

#7 The average U.S. hospice has not undergone a full certification inspection in more than 3.5 years, a HuffPost analysis of Medicare data found. HuffPost found 759 hospices that haven’t been inspected in more than 6 years. Nursing home inspections, by contrast, are required by federal law at least every 15 months.

Same.

#8 Over a recent three-year span, 55 percent of all U.S. hospices were cited for a violation, many care-related, HuffPost found. HuffPost found 20 providers that were cited for more than 70 violations each during that time.

Violation of what? Some of the regulations are of interest only to civil servants and management accountants - what family member gives the proverbial if a hospice hasn't sent its diversity monitoring forms in on time? - so it matters. So does the word "many". If many meant enough for the reader to get excited about, any self-respecting journalist would have specified the number.


It's a wicked world. Sickening things take place in all corners of it, so why should hospice facilities be uniquely exempt? But that doesn't make bad practice the norm, and it doesn't make dying in hospital a better alternative, either. The answer is to be vigilant and to work for improvements, perseveringly and realistically. Has your research brought you into contact with the many dedicated, knowledgeable and compassionate people who are doing just that?

And, in any case, this forum is for people who are facing caregiving challenges right now. Their loved ones are dying now. And you're telling them not to accept the specialist help of experienced professionals for fear that their loved ones will be fleeced, abused and ultimately murdered. What is the better choice that you would offer them?

Give it your all, Mark. Obviously the FACTS that our posters' loved ones, who were dying and BENEFITED from hospice, means nothing to you.

No one is reading but keep giving this thread CPR. I've stopped the "code blue". Let it die.
No more for me.
Bye 👋🏼

Here is another write up on greedy corporate hospices--bing.com/fd/ls/GLinkPing.asp

Those are from real people. Facts are stubborn things.

How Dying Became A Multibillion-Dollar Industry

By Ben Hallman
Development and data reporting by Shane Shifflett.
Additional reporting by Chris Kirkham.
Design by Hilary Fung.
JUNE 19, 2014
Evelyn Maples’ last day as a hospice patient wasn’t anything like her family imagined when the nurse from Vitas Healthcare first pitched the service two months before.

On the morning of Dec. 31, 2011, Maples’ daughter, Kathleen Spry, found her mom unconscious and gasping for breath, with her eyes rolled back in her head. Maples was at a Vitas inpatient facility on Merritt Island, 30 miles from the home the two women shared on Florida’s east coast. No one from Vitas had called to warn the family that the woman everyone called “granny” was in sharp decline, Spry said. No one from Vitas had sought treatment for the blood infection that had made her severely ill, despite the family’s standing request that she receive life-saving care in the event of a crisis.

KEY FINDINGS
The U.S. hospice industry has quadrupled in size since 2000. Nearly half of all Medicare patients who die now do so as a hospice patient — twice as many as in 2000, government data shows.

Since 2006, the U.S. government has accused nearly every major for-profit hospice company of billing fraud.

Hospices bill by the day, and stays at for-profits are substantially longer than at nonprofits (105 days versus 69 days).

In 2009, for-profit hospices charged Medicare 29 percent more per patient than nonprofits, according to the inspector general for the health service.

The average hospice stay has increased dramatically since 2000, regardless of diagnosis, a HuffPost analysis of Medicare data found. This has led to a surge in expenditures: $15 billion in federal dollars in 2013.

Despite widespread allegations of fraud and abuse, regulators have consistently rated hospice as a lower priority for inspection than traditional health facilities like hospitals.

The average U.S. hospice has not undergone a full certification inspection in more than 3.5 years, a HuffPost analysis of Medicare data found. HuffPost found 759 hospices that haven’t been inspected in more than 6 years. Nursing home inspections, by contrast, are required by federal law at least every 15 months.

Over a recent three-year span, 55 percent of all U.S. hospices were cited for a violation, many care-related, HuffPost found. HuffPost found 20 providers that were cited for more than 70 violations each during that time.

I stand by my word and I'll post links again on evil Hospice and how it's full of big corporate profiteers. Even the Huffing ton post had an article on that.

This has become sort of like the "poop" thread awhile back.. it just goes on and on... I agree.. let it go

I have unfollowed this thread repeatedly. It’s just that I follow so many of you regular posters that whenever you answer here, this thread pops up in my newsfeed. I don’t like reading this thread. It would be great if we just stop responding here.

Let’s just allow this thread to be a venting place for those who believe hospice kills. A venting place that doesn’t require us to respond.....

Time for a boycott. Our answers just encourage Mark to spew more rhetoric.

Mark; for the record, I don't hate you. I haven't asked that you be banned. I disagree with your vehemently, because I was glad to have the hospice option at the end of my mother's life when none of her pain meds were working on the pain she was having, when she couldn't, due to aphasia and dementia, what hurt. We just knew from her facial grimaces that she was in agony.

I promised my mother one and only one thing in life, that she wouldn't die in pain. Hospice gave me the option to relieve her pain. Not to end her life.

Mark,
I don't hate you. I don't know you other than what you write in your posts. I'm not trying to ban you. I would like to see this thread close because I think we have exhausted the issue. It's time to stop chasing our tail.

Some believe in hospice, others don't. No one is forced to sign up. It's a voluntary thing. The family member that's signing up should read all the material and fine print before signing a contract with hospice. They should inform ALL of the other family members, so everyone will understand the plan and be on the same page. If they don't find it to their liking-cancel it! If, after you've cancelled, you find it did a lot of good, sign up again. It's that easy.

People are expected to die from their disease. Hospice is to make a person comfortable at the end of life.

The US government is not in the business of hiring "hit men" to "finish off" these terminal patients. Actually, there would be an incentive for the hospice company to keep the patients alive, as they are paid for every day they assist the patient.

I have worked as a hospice nurse. You haven't. Even though you may have had a family member in hospice, there is a big difference being on that side. I was on that side too. My Dad was in hospice the week before he died. I was the daughter, in that case, not the nurse. Hospice explained things much more clearly than the jerk of a doctor that was assigned to my dad. I felt both of us (Dad and I) were well served by hospice. I don't feel that they ended his life. He was DYING from 2 massive strokes. His G-tube feedings wouldn't digest. They had to stop feeding him. We have to keep in mind that death can happen at any time. Because they are given meds that make them sleepy, does not mean that they are dying from them. I'm glad for any relief my father received.

We all have our own opinions about many subjects. I respect your right to your own opinion. But please don't tell me that I don't really care when I say I'm sorry that a loved one of a person on this board died. I DO care. I got into nursing BECAUSE I care. I'm a sensitive person and probably spend way too much time with my patients to my own detriment (clocking out late, backed up charting, etc.) Because I am pro-hospice doesn't make me a non caring person.
The same if I was, for example, pro abortion, pro assisted suicide or any other "hot" topic. Don't put me into a "box" because of my beliefs. My hair could be green and I could have 10 lip piercings but just because I wouldn't be conforming to YOUR way of thinking, then I'm bad? That's pretty narrow minded. (By the way, my hair is not green, and I do not have any lip piercings-it's just an analogy. I will keep my position on abortion and assisted suicide private.)

I think we've all said about as much as can be said. Let the thread die a peaceful death.
RIP

For goodness' sake.

Mark, nobody hates you. They disagree vehemently with you, and they are concerned that your views may needlessly further frighten and distress people who are already afraid and distressed. That is not the same.

Your definitions of the words prove, necessary, and factual may not necessarily tally with generally accepted ones.

And Liberal? Moi? How very dare you!

I agree about the name-calling habit. But this is hardly unique to Liberals.

Those few who hate me on here for proving Hospice is a corrupt big corporate oligarchy and is not necessary now want me banned. It's so typical of Liberals. When they lose an argument they resort to name calling or want you banned. I've seen this so often. I repeat and stand by my word and the factual write ups.

My mother-in-law is in her 90's and recently was diagnosed with pneumonia. And CHF, which had never been mentioned by her dr. She has dementia and has been in a nursing home for almost 2 years. Our niece is a nurse who works at the facility. She suggested hospice for comfort care last week. The children agreed. As soon as she got on hospice, they started dosing her with morphine/Ativan and she is just going downhill really fast. I thought she'd have a chance to continue fighting her illness. She had a round of antibiotics, and is on O2. After she had antibiotics, she had improved. She had 2 bad days after they ended the antibiotics, but then rallied. Then went on hospice, and now because of the morphine and Ativan, she's just sleeping away. When you go on hospice, their drs. take over the orders. My husband had cancer and the hospital staff recommended hospice. He was home with me and the hospice staff had me giving him morphine and atropine every 4 hours the last few days he lived. I am not in a good place with what I did then and I can't help thinking that right now, my mother-in-law should have gotten more of a chance to get better than she got. I'm glad it wasn't my decision and that I'm not giving her the drugs.

richburg1983, I think we all go through that, being if a love one passes in their sleep unexpectedly or if one is on Hospice care, how we wished we had more days to talk.

If only we had a crystal ball that would show the final day.... then we all could get our words in that we had missed over the years.

My Dad was on Hospice Care for less than one week, it was just his time. Even while in a coma, I told Dad it was ok for him to go and be with Mom [who had passed the prior year], that he had taught me well and that I would be fine if he left. A few hours later he passed. I feel he waited for me to give him that reinsurance that I would be ok.

My mom passed away on 2005 from live cancer.

She was in hospice the last week of her life.

I’ve thought too that hospice rushed her dearth. No doubt she was close to her end regardless, but she was fully alert and herself until they started injecting her with morphine. Right before her first dose I took her outside to get some fresh air, shortly after we came back inside they gave her the first injection. Within minutes she went to sleep. I came back the next day and told her not to give her anymore while I was there. She was slowly starting to wake back up and respond again.

When I was leaving late that night I told the nurse to stop giving her morphine by needle and go back to the IV. The nurse working that night said she’d tell the nurse in the morning to follow my wishes.

Well the next day I went back and the nurse that morning gave her more morphine and she passed away that afternoon.

I’m happy that she passed in peace and likely in no pain. I just wish I had more time to talk to her.

As I’m writing that maybe it’s selfish for me to feel that way. At least she wasn’t suffering, but if I just had a couple more days it would have meant so much.

CottonKandy, my dad was like your grandpa when it came to pain. When he had his 1st pneumonia, he refused for months to go to the clinic/ER. Like you, I finally put my foot down, and called 911 despite his objections. Unfortunately, you cannot force someone to go if they are competent. When I’m home, the tv is mostly on CNN, Fox News, Good Morning America, etc... After the medics questioned dad on current events (he passed with flying colors), they left without him. I had to wait until weeks later when he asked me to call 911 because he can’t breathe. At the ER, his left lung was almost filled with fluid.

The older generation can be so stoic about their painful health issues and not let it show. Refusing to go to the clinic for help with it. I’m glad that you’re Grandfather didn’t reach that threshold when painkillers are no longer working. I still remember a man in the hospital begging for hours for help. It was awful. When we no longer could take it, we asked the nurse about him. He had cancer and it’s not yet time for his next dosage of painkillers... I’m so glad that your grandfather didn’t go through this!!!

Yes I believe hospice care sped up my grandfather's death but with that said I am thankful and I am sure he was too. I will explain:

My grandfather was my world and he was a stubborn man who would never complain about anything. My mother had moved him in with her because the stairs were becoming too much as he had COPD. It started with him having a "little ache" in his shoulders and hips and within a month progressed to him not even being able to support his own weight. I told him that day he was going to the hospital if he wanted to or not and I called for an ambulance. The X-rays had shown that these "little aches" he was having were actually his bones splintering and breaking due to the tumors within them. I get teary just thinking of how much pain that must have been and all he did was ask for some Icy Hot rub on his back? The doctor could not believe that he didn't express any signs of being in massive unimaginable pain and a nurse at one point, in so little words accused us of being neglectful. He still went to doctors, drove his own car, went to visit his lady friend, how were we to know?

His 2nd day being admitted he was still himself, he was a very smart man and we talked about random things as we usually did and he was fully with it when he thanked me for not letting him stay at home any longer, the pain medication was working at the time and he expressed his relief to me and said he never ever wanted to feel that pain again, even if it meant his passing. The next few days he was still alert but you could tell he was really feeling the pain killers and was speaking of things that didn't make sense, one moment I would be his grand daughter the next I would be his sister or his 4th grade teacher but he was in ZERO pain and that was one of his last clear minded wishes. With heavy pain killers there is a threshold and a half life which over time lowers the effectiveness on the body and for his amount of pain that threshold was being hit very rapidly. As per his wishes I told the staff to do whatever is required so he isn't in pain and they did. He died peacefully with his family by his side in no pain 4 days later.

How anyone can see this as a bad thing is a mystery to me, had I requested they limited his medications the scenario would have been very different. He would have been restrained due to the writhing the pain caused and it would have been an absolute living hell to be tortured when it wasn't needed. He wasn't going to get better, there were no treatment options available and he rode it out as far as he could handle. He deserved peace.

Mark, make sure your family has a legal document that you had signed saying you do NOT want to have any type of Hospice care.

If you rather have your grown children [if any] and/or young grand-children [if any] remember how you were on your final days, well that is YOUR choice.

Forever engraved in their minds will be the vision of their father/grand-father wincing in terrible pain as whatever illness is sliding through your body and eventually shutting down your organs. Again, that is YOUR choice. Sadly, not THEIR choice.

GA,
Not your fault.
The man is on a roll!
I need to not respond to this thread, as it brings out the "Hulk" in me. hee hee ;)

Sue, I'm sorry I suggested Markmedsur1 support his claims. Instead of unsubscribing, or rather having your post deleted, perhaps we should contact the Admins and ask them to close this thread and prevent further comments.

Here's the link:

https://www.agingcare.com/contactus.aspx

If Mark is still going on tomorrow, I'll contact the Admins as well.

Sue, people that work for hospice have a true gift. It would be very difficult to work with people day after day after day that are at the end of their lives. THANK YOU!

And THANK YOU, to Veronica too! Hugs to you both.

Some people feel so guilty because they provided little help for their loved one while they were alive. If they had it to do over, they think they would have done much different. This is one time in our lives that there are no do overs.

I am so tired of uninformed people like MarkMedsur and their idiotic comments.

If anyone is against hospice THEN DON'T USE IT! You're free to do whatever you want with your loved one. Let them die screaming in pain or writhing in anxiety. Fine with me.
But, for the rest of the folks who CARE about their loved ones in pain or anxiety, hospice is a free service provided by Medicare.
Mark, do you really think the federal government would sanction and fund such a practice as hospice nurses purposely murdering their patients?

This thread will NEVER die. Why? Because there will always be believers and non-believers. Honestly, I wish I could give this subject a lethal dose of whatever would kill it!

And FYI, I'm not a paid shill. And darn it, don't tell me that I don't care about the people who have lost their loved ones. I truely mean I am sorry for your loss. I lost my dad and it was very painful. I'm sympathetic to anyone whose LO has passed on. 

I am a part time hospice nurse. ALL the patients I have had WELCOMED my assistance. Do you think ALL of them wanted to "bump off" their loved ones? Heck no. They wanted them comfortable while they passed to the next realm. They told me they were grateful for my help.

I'm no killer and I resent you implying that I am. UNLESS you have worked for a hospice company and did the caregiving, then your word ain't worth a s---.

Can't we put this subject to rest? Let's agree to disagree. Those that don't believe, keep your loved ones at home and you can give them meds-or not. Or, if the health insurance will allow, keep them in the hospital where the nurses are going to give the SAME meds to your LO as the hospice nurses do. I don't see the difference.

To the administrator; How do you unsubscribe to a thread? I've had it. Yeah, I know, just don't read it.