Did Hospice rush your loved ones death?

I know what happened and you are right. They hastened and murdered your Father. They did that to my Step Father also. He was dying of cancer but we kept him at home and my Mother, an RN and at that time I was finishing my RN degree, were assisting him. He ate daily. He went to the bathroom up with assist. He could think clearly. He spoke coherently and he slept at night and some during the day. He knew all of his family and friends. However due to his 24 hour around the clock nursing duty as he was Belfast and had oxygen on nasal canalla and adjusting his many pillows it had worn my 64 year old Mother out. And I was very busy finishing my nursing school. So on Friday evening early his O2 says dropped to below 88. We had no ability to give him anymore as our machine was already on high. So we took him by ambulance to the ER and he had been on hospice for just two weeks. They admitted him to the Hospice unit. They gave him 3 liters of 02 and he was awake and his 02 SARS hit 92 to 94 percent which is good. He knew us and he said he was fine. I went home and my Mother stayed for two more hours and then left for home. She was so tired. She slept well and lol and behold at 11am the next morning we got a call from the hospice doctor stating his respiratory system was shutting down slowly and his 02 days were below 90. He was unresponsive. Mom and I called other family and got dressed and closed up the house and drove the 1/2 hour drive to the hospital. It was late afternoon by then. We arrived and found his respirations 12. Not good. Then 2 hours later 10. He would not awaken. We tried. Mom asked the Hospice nurse what they gave him regarding medications? We had specifically informed them previously that he could not take Ativan with morphine! Well they gave him Ativan IV 1 mg and morphine 4 mg IV q 4 hours which was an increase from the 15 mgs we were giving him at home! My Mother and I were perplexed. But it was too late. He was beginning the dying process and within two more hours he was dead. He specifically stated the day before that he did not want to die! We knew something was wrong. We knew he had been drugged to die. And we felt bad about that. It still bothers my Mother to this day! Now I know hospice as an RN well today as that was 20 years ago when he died. I know medical well. I have seen many die before their time in hospice. They murder them. And you won't ever get me to change my mind! 3 other people I have known very well since that time stated the same things happened to their loved ones. Hospice is not necessary. Nurses can easily take care of terminally ill patients in the hospital daily and indeed we do all the time! Many people hate hospice. They know. So for those who think it's humane you are sorely mistaken. Again don't even attempt to argue with me. My mind is dogmatic about this. Mark.

The topic starting post is exactly how I feel, and practically word for word what happened with my father, he was still managing to live at home, with care visits during the day, and was offered a week in a hospice for a rest. once there he perked up quite a bit, then I was asked if it would be ok to change his medication, and it might make him a bit sleepy, we all discussed it, including with my father, and agreed, my sisters and I went and walked around the gardens in the hospice - when we returned my father had been given his new meds, and was asleep, he never came round or woke up; I felt like they were starving him to death - and did raise my concerns with the Dr. within 3 days he was gone. I often feel guilty as it was my decision to move him to a hospice, I talked him into it even though he felt he'd never return, i genuinely thought it would just be for a "rest for the week" as had been discribed to me. I also made the decision at my sisters requests to change his meds; as per Dr's advice.

However - he had late stages of throat cancer (he smoked from 14-68) his prognosis wasn't good; he went from being "reasonably OK" to no longer being here or in pain. We had lost our mother 9 months before due to an 'issue' during a hip replacement op and he had understandably given up. All the staff in the hospice were amazing, patient, friendly, caring, I will never know the strength they must have to do that job day in and day out.

Had we not gone down this route, what may have happened to him could of been much worse with a lot more pain and suffering. We will never know x

I firmly believe that all those meds from Hospice killed my mother. Yes I know about pancreatic cancer and she had cancer spread to several areas but she went from coherent and upset she had cancer to delusional and unresponsive and was dead in 50 days from diagnosis. I hate myself for ever letting them into our home. We were OK until they got here. We should have handled everything with the hospital, but hospice tells the patient you don't need to go to anymore doctors. After she died they kept calling and calling wanting to counsel me in my grief, I had them remove me from their calling list and then got a bill from the state for $25000.00 for 48 days of care which I did all of it round the clock with no help. I am still so upset.

Stacey,
Oh, I so relate. The night time IS the worst! I feel like I'm back with my newborn. At least with the baby, I could turn on the baby monitor and leave the room and all was well. Not so here!
I boxed up the baby monitor I bought for checking up on mom, as she needs a constant pair of eyes on her (24/7). We put a twin bed in her room for whichever caregiver's turn it is (my husband, the overnight caregiver or me) to sleep on.
We attached Christmas bells to the bottom part of her bed sheet with pinching paper clips. Works great! If she moves at all, we hear it immediately. We all sleep with one eye open but, fortunately, I get a break 4 nights a week from 10 pm to 7 am.

Mom loves to take off her pajama bottoms and diapers. Even with very careful watching, she seems to wiggle out of them. Then, of course, urine everywhere. I am awaiting the Amazon order of adult bibs and "onesies" for incontinent adults. For now, we have to tape her pj bottoms to the pj tops. We tell her we're wrapping her up as a Christmas present. She is not pleased.

I'm also going to check out bed rails that you slip under the mattress and I have adjusted her meds for maximum relaxation at bedtime. She seems to do the sundowner's thing, perfectly asleep on the couch after dinner but , OMG, move her 10 ft. to her bedroom at bedtime and it's "craaaaaazy time"!

The other day I went into our bedroom to tell my husband something. I was in there 3 minutes. She somehow got off the couch and wound up in the bathroom with her pants and diapers around her ankles, peeing all over the floor!!!!!! :(

Regarding my elder years, dying in my sleep, just when I start to decline to the point of needing help, would be the best. I'll settle for a massive heart attack (that takes me out) too. But, God forbid, this!

My dad had a saying, "I want to die at the hand of a jealous husband at 82!" Should we all have it so good, Dad. ;)

OK so I lied! He is still struggling to get out of bed, Grrr, this situation is changing day by day,  and sometimes hour by hour!

 In these past few days,  the agitation and delusions are coming and going, and sometimes the meds work, and sometimes they don't!  My FIL'S symptoms tend to come on late in the day and evening,  so I'm not sure what is infection related or what could be some Sundowners symptoms,  or what might even be medication reactions,  it's so frustrating,  but even so, our Hospice Nurse has given us pretty flexible medication dosing, and feels that we know what works best (especially with my background in medicine), and she trusts our judgement.  It helps that she knows that we tend to error on the side of caution,  and don't or haven't yet given him the maximum allowable dosage possible but, but one more night like last night, and we may be there NOW! 

YOWZA, my FIL was up awake about 6 times between 7pm and 3pm, calling out, confused, talking gibberish,  trying to get out of his bed and his tee-shirt,  and I do believe it is the infection causing the majority of the problems.  Interestingly,  he slept in until nearly 1pm today,  which was frustrating,  as hubby and I kept checking in on him all night, and neither of us slept much. I just wish we knew he was going to sleep so late, as then we would have slept in too! We both try to get up fairly early,  say 7am, so we can get ourselves ready for the day, so we are both pretty tired today,  with these type of symptoms going on the past 7 or so nights now. 

Hubby keeps thinking that the end is near,  ("meredays"), while I don't necessarily believe that myself,  as I've been through this before with my own parents.  

And while hubby doesn't wish for his Dad to die per se, the long goodbye does tend to wear you down, knowing that as the days go on, the symptoms could get worse,   and you are constantly worried that he is suffering, and it is just making it that much more difficult to everyone concerned.  Let's face it, his QOL is pretty nominal at this point. 

Then again,  when he did wake up, he had coffee and mini Kit Kat Chocolate bars, then ate a fair sized lunch, so we could yet be at this awhile longer! 

I'm the type of person who "needs to know", and when I do my research online,  I find that I am not that different from many other people who are doing Hospice Care, but I am finding that there isn't any rhyme nor reason,  as to how long this takes, or the winding path it takes to get there. 

Some people lose there LO really fast and sometimes faster then they even had a chance to prepare themselves or say their goodbyes, and some LO's linger on for a long time, sometimes fooling you into thinking that they are almost gone, only to rally once more. My FIL is a rally once more kind of guy, Lol! PROSTATE CANCER,  LYMPHOMA,  A HEART ATTACK,  and now LUNG CANCER, this guy has nine lives! 

That's OK, as long as he isn't suffering is all I care about!   Life is very Mysterious!  

Oh, Stacy, you said that so well!

Stacey thank you for sharing your innermost feelings about your journey with hospice. That is the way it is supposed to happen.
I wish you and FIL peace in his final days and a death that will be a joyful event as he passes into the care of our Lord. Bless you for sharing.

I currently have my FIL home with us and on Hospice. He has Lung Cancer and his Cancer was found by one of the many tests he had, when he was admitted to hospital for Severe Pneumonia and Sepsis.

He was so gravely ill at the time, I honestly didn't think that he would survive it, but he sure did, however in the many tests that were done on him, a Chest CT confirmed a golf ball sized mass is growing in his Right Lung, and it has already spread to his diaphram and his rib bones.

This is a guy who Never complains of pain, but then does things like slide away from that side of his body in bed, which the Nurses called guarding. When pressed on that side, he says does hurt, so he now gets pain meds routinely which do not "knock him out", but only makes him more relaxed and comfortable.

We've had him home with us now 6 weeks. The Cancer Dr in hospital told us that he would probably only make it 3 weeks if that, and he has exceed that guestimate.

The first week home was Rough, as FIL was still recovering from the Pneumonia, coughing up gobs of terrible thick phlegm, but he rallied, and got much better, nearly back to his old self, but is so extremely weak, that he is now bedbound. He is also now double incontinent, and on a catheter, with round the clock Oxycodone and Lorazepam.

Things went along pretty normally, except for him being bed bound, and getting his medications adjusted just right, until about 10 days ago, when he started getting major agitation and having delusions,  and talking 
non-sensical (?).  

It was frightening, not knowing exactly what to do, but we have an Amazing Hospice team working for us,  just a phone call away, day or night,  and they have worked hard to adjust his medications just right. Our Nurse comes twice a week to check on him as well as calls in frequently, we have a bath aide 2 X per week, and really great SW, who is helping me to get in VA home care services started, as well as Our Lovely Lady Chaplain, who sees him each week, to visit, and she also sings and players her flute.

My FIL just Loves all "his ladies", with a couple of Handsome male Nurses thrown in for my pleasure,  Lol! No, they really really great too!

In the last 10 days with this new symptom of Agitation, there have been several medication adjustments, now Morphine and Haldol, to quiet him, and relieve his stress, which has helped immensely, allowing him And Us to get the much needed sleep at night, because doing Hospice care at home is not easy, it's a lot of work! I swear our Hospice team is here to help us, almost as much as they are to help him the patient!

It is all about the comfort care now, my FIL knows that he is Dying, and we are doing everything we can to make his transition as calm, comfortable and loving as possible.

Recent trouble with a Urinary tract infection has raised havoc with his catheter, which has needed to be changed 3 times in the past week, it's really frustrating, but he is in no noticeable pain, and that is our goal. Yes, he is sleeping more, but he isn't struggling to get out of bed, wrestling with his clothing and blankets, talking gibberish, and so confused as he was without the added medications, and even he feels better, and understands that this is nessesary for him and for my husband and myself, in order to keep him here with us, rather than being sent to the Hospice Hospital, or a Nursing home, as he would just hate that.

As long as we can keep him comfortable, keep him here with us, that is our goal, and with the help of Our Hospice Team, I am praying that we can continue to have him here as is his dying wish.

There is no perfect solution, we just do our best, and that is all we can do.

It is most likely that he will pass from an infection, rather than the Cancer, which will be a blessing, as if this type of Cancer progresses, it could spread to his brain (if it hasn't already), and will eventually cause trouble with his breathing, his lungs filling with fluid, coughing, and cause much more pain as the cancer advances, and time goes on.

I tend to be much more honest and frank with him than my husband is, but I have worked in Healthcare all my life, and have been through the dying process with both of my parents, dying of horrible disease processes, which I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

I believe it's much nicer when the patient knows and understands what is in store for their life, and how we can make things as easy as possible for them, even if that means that they are sleepy or asleep for much of the day, but Never have our Hospice team suggested doses high enough to harm him, but only enough to ease his symptoms.

I know it's scary and so Sad to lose our Loved ones, especially our Mom's and Dad's, as I've lost both, and was right there with them as they took their last breaths. I can see where one might wish to blame the Hospice Dr or Nurse, but this is my 2nd time around utilizing the wonderful services of Hospice, and I know that we could never do this without them. It would be horrible to even try! We would be way over our heads, and out Loved Ones would be in a Nursing home, unhappy, and not have us here advocating for them 24/7.

We are all going to die, but Please Dear God, let me have the excellent care of a Hospice team like ours, working with my family and on my side!

I am so sorry for those of you who have lost a parent on Hospice. But please know that they do everything they can to make their patients lives and the lives of the caregivers, as easy and comfortable as possible. It is Sad, and the grief can eat you up, so do take the Hospice team up on the. Grief counseling that they offer. I have yet to do this in the past, but may do so for myself this time around, as I don't feel like I've ever grieved properly, as we lost 3 parents so closely together, and then immediately began caring for my FIL in our home for many years now.

It will be nice to understand how I buried my grief, my feelings for many years now. I'm sure that I could benifit from Grief Counseling for sure! God bless all of you who are suffering from loss!

Danielle, sorry for the loss of your parents, and the recent loss of your father.

Dear Danielle. I am so sorry for the loss of both parents in such a short period of time.
Naturally you are entitled to your opinion about hospice but the fact is both parets had very unpleasant life threatening diseases and hospice was able to ease their distress even if the passed sooner than you expected. Feeding your Dad would have been fruitless as it would have put more stress on his failing organs and lead to more distress for him. Would you really have wanted to watch either of them moaning with pain, restless and anxious in the final days of their lives. I think you would have been calling hospice and asking them to help him
Try and put this behind you and concentrate on the good times you had with your parents. Hospice has a grief group run by a social worker and you might find it helpful to share your feelings with others.

Yes I do feel that way. Once we they upped our dads morphine and his Ativan he was u responsive and died in 2 days. I do think giving them morphine kills them faster. I feel this way because they aren't eating or drinking and I feel our dads body shut down quicker. It's very sad. Same thing happened with my mom also. My mom died 2 years ago from ALS and my dad just died 2 weeks ago from lung cancer.

Sue C I did have one patient with CJD and everything went as your quote from the Mayo Clinic described. Unfortunately his brother was also in the early stages too

Flymom I know you are hurting and nothing anyone can add will relieve that pain. But try and find peace within from the fact that Mom was actively dying when hospice came in and gave the morphine and IV but focus on the fact that she was able to die peacefully

From The Mayo Clinic;
Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease, also called: CJD or subacute spongiform encephalopathy is
a degenerative brain disorder that leads to dementia and death. Treatment can help, but this condition can't be cured. It requires a medical diagnosis with lab tests. Imaging is always required.
Chronic: can last for years or be lifelong.
Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease may occur spontaneously, be inherited or be transmitted by contact with infected tissue, such as during a transplant or from eating contaminated meat.
The condition causes personality changes, anxiety, depression and memory loss, usually within a few months. Many people lapse into coma.
Because no effective treatment exists, the focus is on alleviating pain and relieving symptoms. Consult a doctor for medical advice.
Sources: Mayo Clinic and others.

Dear Flymom,
I am so very sorry for the loss of your beloved Mom. But please be kind enough to read the following.
I know what it "looks" like... the Morphine was hooked up, then she died. But she would have died at that time, with or without the Morphine.
To those who may not know, a "drip" is a needle in the vein (IV) with a saline solution mixed with pain medication, hooked up to a machine that delivers a continuous, set amount of medication over a prescribed period of time. Doctors can NOT order deadly amounts to be given. It just can't happen. Pharmacists make the bag of Morphine in the pharmacy and the nurse usually hooks it up to the patient. Doctor's just order it. No nurse that I've EVER encountered in my 38 years would give an overdose of IV pain medicine. IT IS ILLEGAL! The patient is kept comfortable with the amount the doctor believes is sufficient for pain relief but not enough to overwhelm the patient and stop breathing.

How do you KNOW that your mom had no pain in her coma? Just because her vitals were fine doesn't mean that she was as comfortable as she could be. As mentioned before on this thread, there are many 'unspoken' signs of pain that the average person might miss.
You have admitted that your mom was terminal with, unfortunately, no hope of recovery. Your mom had been in a coma for 10 days. During that time I know she was assessed neurologically (for pain too) by the doctors. The decision was made to keep her comfortable. Could you imagine being trapped in your body and not being able to let anyone know that you hurt?
According to the famous Mayo clinic, "the focus is on alleviating pain". I know you wouldn't want your mother to suffer, especially being unable to speak.

It's hard to let go. Death happens too fast for us to wrap our brains around it. Most of us are in denial. "But she was just fine a month ago." It's all too fast and way too painful to let go. And it's so final.
It's easy to say that Morphine killed her so we can blame it on 'something' and be mad at it to displace our helplessness to fix the problem.

I believe that, as time passes, you will come to see that the day God set aside for her to be with Him WAS the day she passed. Be comforted that she passed with no pain, whether you could see it or not.

Flymom, I'm so sorry for the loss of your mom to this truly terrible disease. Many CJD patients do not live long after lapsing into coma. I know that you believe that the morphine killed your mom, but I highly doubt it. I've just been through the hospice experience with my own mom.

If we had accepted hospice when it was first recommended, more than two years ago, our experience would have been like the one Hospice MD describes. Because other famiky members waited until mom was critical and already actively dying, our hospice experience was about 36 hours long.

Again, my deep sympathies to you. I hope you find peace.

Just to be clear, mom was only comatose for about ten days when given the morphine drip.  CJD attacks the healthy brain cells and converts them to what is known as prion disease. She had been in and out of hospitals for a month doing tests to find what was going on. CJD baffles doctors because it is a one in a million disease which has no specific way of diagnosing, so it's very difficult on all and only positive diagnosis and confirmation is thru autopsy. 

To Hospice MD, I wish my mom's hospice experience had been what you described. It was nothing like it, but my mom was only in hospice less than a day because she passed within hours of in hospital "hospice" due to being put on morphine and drip. My mom had suspected CJD which was confirmed with brain autopsy. Until one month before the initial symptoms of slight dementia, she was a perfectly healthy woman. There was no pain, mom was in a coma state as most CJD patients end up, and her vital signs were fine. Why the hospital hospice doctor put her on morphine we will never know and haunts me to this day. I told him I did not like that idea and he told me it would not hurt her but if anything it would help with any breathing issues which there were none. There is NO doubt the use of morphine in this case ended her life in 4 hours time. I have yet to confront this doctor to ask him why he did it. CJD is a terminal rare disease for which there is no cure or specific treatment. It runs its course and most people die within a year, my mom only had one month of symptoms and was already comatose, but only God knows how long she had to live. The hospice doctor in this case played God and that is not acceptable. My dad is 88 and healthy and I will never allow this to happen again. It is sad and awful that I had to learn in this way what morphine can do when it is used needlessly or inappropriately. I realize morphine is good for those in pain and suffering at the end of life, but to administer it when there is no pain or agony should be punishable by law. This leads me to think that if you are old with a terminal disease the doctor can decide if you live another day or not. While that is not everyone's experience, it was definitely my family's.

THANK YOU, HospiceMD!
A few of us hospice nurses have been barely keeping our heads above water on this thread.
We appreciate you setting everyone straight.
All any of us want to do is keep your terminal loved one comfortable. Make sure everyone in your family reads the contract and knows what to expect and what services are offered. Then everyone is on the same page.

I am a hospice physician. I would like to say that you are not eligible for hospice services unless you have a prognosis of less then 6 months. We consider the patient and the patient's family as the unit of care. We provide the a nurse, nurse's aide, chaplain or spiritual counselor, social worker and a physician to each patient and their families. We provide 24 hours day, 7 day a week access to care through a phone number you can call and any of the previously mentioned providers can be called to come out and see the patient or the family. We also provide 13 months of bereavement care for the family. Hospice comes to wherever the patient is located nursing home, home, personal care home, or assisted living centers. We are an extra layer of care. A RN nurse is assigned to visit the patient at least once a week and then a LVN nurse usually comes a second time in the week (At least in our hospice). Then a home health aide is assigned to come out and bathe a patient at least twice a week. Most want at least 3 times a week. If the patient is having a hard time they can receive a RN or LVN visit daily especially in the last few days of life. Also there is a free to the family 5 days of respite care for putting stable at home patients in a nursing home for five days of rest so family members can rest. The there is continuous care for uncontrolled symptom management and in patient hospice care for symptoms that can not be managed by in home continuous care. The last two mentioned are for very specific symptom management and it is highly regulated by Medicare. It is not to be used for normal end of life care. You also get a social worker to help you with end of life care from anxiety in family and patient to planning a funeral or placement in a nursing home. They make an initial visit and then as needed visits. The spiritual care worker helps patients and families deal with spiritual issues around the end of life. They meet you where you are and can sit and pray with the patient and his family or coordinate spiritual care with your chosen faith. They visit initially and then as needed and you can refuse their visit. All medications related to the primary hospice diagnosis are covered by the hospice as well as medications related to pain, constipation, nausea & vomiting, anxiety & agitation. Most people who are in the last 6 months do experience pain and so yes we are aggressive at managing pain because it is not fair to die in pain even if you can not verbalize that you are in pain. The elderly often express pain in worsening delirium which means they see, hear and react to things other people can not see, hear and react to. As you age all your organs age including your stomach and your ability to metabolize medications in your stomach decreases. So giving your loved one more medications actually makes the patients stomach work harder at digesting them. So this means that a lot of the drugs and vitamins actually are not getting metabolized and are diminishing the amount of any of the drugs that are getting into the patients blood supply. It has been shown with study after study that the elderly medically fragile (anybody in a nursing home and almost anyone who is older then 65 depending on the person) need to be on less then 9 medications and that means over the counter medications and vitamins too. And most people in the last 6 months of life have lost enough weight that they no longer have hypertension and diabetes type II and therefore either need less of those medications and/or no longer need those medications. Most people who initially come on hospice have a "honeymoon period" when we stop excessive medications and the patient actually wakes up and is more cognizant and aware of there surroundings. We do not start pain medications unless there is some symptoms or source of pain. Most people in the last few weeks of life have pain as their body start to shut down and their muscles contract. We do not want you loved one to die. We just want to make sure your loved one is actually cared for appropriately. If you do not want to believe that I will talk about the economics of hospice. We actually do not want to kill your loved one because that would mean we can no longer be reimbursed for their care. (Medicare pays a set amount for every day you are on hospice. It covers the pay of all the caregivers, the director of nursing, the administrator, the pharmacy costs, the secretaries, the answering service, the physician etc. ) We have patients with varying length of stays some come on and die with in a day others come on and die 3 years later. Our hospice (Silverado Hospice) has a physician visit the patient with in 7 days of admission, to make sure the patient is appropriate and indeed has a life expectancy of less then 6 months if the disease was to run it's normal course. (This visit is not required by healthcare law) After the first 6 months patients are seen by a physician ever 2 months to re-certify that the patient's has a life expectancy of less then 6 months is the disease was to run it's normal course. (these visits are required by law) If the patient's illness has stabilized then the patient is discharged from hospice for extended prognosis. (life expectancy greater then 6 months) Our hospice location in and it has a census of about 150-160 patients with about 50 admissions per month and 50 deaths per month. We usually have 3-4 patients that we discharge per month for extended prognosis. We are happy to readmit them when their illness progresses again and that happens quite a bit, usually 3-12 months later. Medicare has strict guidelines that must be followed so the patient has to show decline each re-certification period (within each 60 day period). So that is what hospice actually does. We do not hasten death in anyway.

My Story- My Mom Lynda suffered 2 strokes back to back in 2012. Taking her speech completely away and left her partial paralyzed. Then in May of 2016 she was diagnosed with stage 4 Breast Cancer. She tried One treatment of Chemo. Which that did her in and she lost all her hair. She lived at home and had 24/7 care. My daughter, my step dad and Myself took care of her. During the month of July (last month) she was needing to wear diapers, her eating had slowed down and she was drinking anout a gallon of water a day. We would have to take her to the restroom every 10 min and we would have to change her sheets daily. She was scheduled to have her Pet Scan done on Monday July 17th. We didn't know that would be her last outing. I called Hospice the same Monday and when we returned they met us at home. After talking and evaluation of My Mom they told us she had about 2 weeks left. They started her on Morphine that day too. Tuesday we were told now she has 7-9 days left. But I knew it would be sooner. Because I could hear the death rattle. Gurgling had started. On Tuesday Everyone came over to talk to her. She couldn't respond but she was alert and knew who was there. On Wed July 19th she was no longer responding. Having morphine on the clock all day. She slept but her eyes remained open. I tried to close them but they wouldn't. I talked to her all day throughout the last days. I Told her how much I loved her. How she was my best friend how she was the best mom to me and the best grandma to my daughter. She was able to meet her great grandson too. Thank God for that. On Thursday morning at 1am I got up from the couch (no sleep for me in 4 days) to pray for her. At 4:15 am I was sitting on the couch and heard this sound that was like there were Machines on. I got up and looked at Mom. She was passing. But she was trying to breath. Her mounth was lock jaw. So seeing her struggled did me in. I woke up my daughter and my step dad and said Mom is leaving us. We stood by her side and told her it's ok to go and to be with her dad, Brother, Family, friends & he savior. The comotion of struggling stopped. Then silence. Then we watched her heart beat 4 last times. She took her last few breaths, then she was gone. We were all crying and just in shock that she had died. Then all of a sudden all this Foam came pouring out of her closed mouth. It scared us. We think it was the Cancer/Fluid in her lungs. I will never get that picture out of my head. I will never forget Watching my Best Friend, My Mom leave me. It's still so hard. She passed away on Thursday July 20th 2017 at 4:45 am. Cancer is Awful. It's so Awful. I will say Hospice was amazing. And I am glad she was on Morphine. To help ease the pain. Because we also found out from the Scan report that the Breast Cancer had spread throughout her ENTIRE body. So Mom was in so much pain. I miss her so much. I miss coming over to her house and kissing her. I miss talking to her. She was the Best Mom/Friend to me. I hope she's with her loved ones in a beautiful place. Until we meet again Mom. I Love you so much. Your Daughter, Victoria~

Being a part time hospice nurse, there are requirements to enter hospice. A patient MUST meet certain criteria (6 months or less to live, etc.) because it is paid for by the government (Medicare).
This is not a "free-for-all" for whatever the doctors and nurses want to do. Patient's charts are audited by the state and, if not found in compliance, the state can close them down. One of the largest hospices in San Diego, California, with hundreds of patients, was shut down a couple of years ago.

Go talk to your mom's doctor for the diagnosis he gave the hospice and ask him to explain his actions to you. Then go speak with the hospice director. Bring your medical records with you. I'm sure you will be given more records that will substantiate her admittance into hospice.
Dig for your answers and you will get them. But please stop blaming the nurses for killing your mother. You don't know ALL the facts.

Michael; It depends entirely what you mean by "terminal". My mom, who passed away peacefully on Hospice on Friday had Vascular dementia, congestive heart failure and a mild pleural effusion. None of that equated to a "terminal" diagnosis. However, there was nothing that could be done about any of those conditions. So they were life-limiting.

I hope that you find peace.

Well Veronica, I understand what your saying,  I agree, problem was my mom was not terminal. She was not dying. The hospice staff didn't try to help her at all. I have all medical records nothing stating life threatening! To be admitted to hospice you should be out of options "except divine intervention"

Michael as Barb noted a DNR means "Do not resuscitate" it means just that. No attempts to restart a heart,no artificial feeding and no tube down the throat to hook up to a breathing machine.
Would you have really wanted to see medical staff pushing on Mom's chest and breaking ribs or giving electric shocks and pushing a tube down her throat.

As far as your sister's actions are concerned they are clearly illegal and the only way to deal with them is through the legal system if you feel it is worth it.

It has been said many times on this thread that the purpose of hospice is to give a patient a comfortable and anti anxiety death. Drugs are fequently required to achieve this end It is not in the interests of hospice to kill off their patients.
Once a patient has passed the hospice looses vital income.
You are grieving the loss of your mother and looking for aomeone to blame for something that no one had any control over so try and find peace for yourself.

My sister conviensed our mom to do away with her will make a new one with her as executor. She then manipulated mom so that she got 2/3 of the estate. I have suspected for last 5-6 years mom had dementia. But she convinced the family I was wrong and kept mother from getting tested thus no treatment. Then mom suffered a mild stroke no paralyzes just got her words mixed up. The doctors put her on a medication that caused her to be combative and not eat and caused a seizure. She was taken off that medication and quickly got better. Hospital sent her home and home health came once a day. My sister moved in and got into it with mother arguing with her and not allowing her to have visitors . Next thing she put mom in a hospice center in Fort Worth, Texas Signed a DNR and the quit giving her food or drink. The shot her up with Morphine every three hours. This lasted til she was dead. Her death certificate states cause of death dehydration and malnutrition. It was in humane. Soon as I found out and went to see her, I was only told she took a turn for the worse. The 2nd I saw her I new something was terribly wrong.  I called the nurse and told her she needs something to drink where is the Iv to keep her hydrated "I'm totally in the dark" her lips are sticking to her teeth. They went and got this green liquid it had a take your breath away smell and sponged it inside her mouth. I was about to go ballistic on the staff but she was almost gone at that point. Shes in a very tranquil state of coma they said she would wake up and talk normal just laugh then go back to sleep.  She did do that she tried to tell the Doctor that they wanted her money but the doctor and nurse paid no attention. This was witnessed by my other sister and her friend. When I got to her it was to late.  She died about 1 1/2 hour after I got there. I think she was holding on til I could get there. It was the worst day of my life. To me Hospice centers should be watched over and shut down if they overstep there boundaries, along with heavy fines and criminal charges.  They are grossly unregulated. I called them a modern day Auschwitz. I know that sounds horrible but my mom would still be alive if they where forced to abide by the rules. My mother was a very strong believer in God and was a christian. She did not want or deserve that. 

Michael; DNR means do not resuscitate; it does NOT mean no food or drink.

You have to be medically eligible for hospice, i.e., have a life limiting illness.

My mom was put in a hospice center by my sister. I've been saying for last 5 plus years that she had dementia. But My sister had full control and refused to have her tested and turned everyone against me. Then mom suffered a mild stroke, no paralyzes just got her words mixed up. One medication the doctor gave her caused her to not eat and caused a seizure. She was taken off the medication and quickly got better. My sister moved in with mom had her change her will making her executor and did away with divide equally between siblings giving her 2/3 of the total estate which is turning out 100%. Then she moved mother to hospice signed a DNR meaning No Food or Drink they shot her up every three hours with Morphine and killed her. Our mother was not dying, and was not terminal, hospice gets away with this way more then people realize. They must be held accountable for there actions. I know this is horrible but true.

If I have one regret about Hospice, it's that we didn't get them sooner. I was unable and unwilling to push my brother, in large part because my SIL, who really always had mom's best interests at heat, felt like Hospice meant "giving up".

The way hospice worked at the NH, once mom was "on" was that they were our instant response system. They were able to fix what was wrong immediately, because they were working for mom and not for the NH. I think the last two years of slow decline would have been exactly the same, except we would have had a better response system in place. That's MY two cents.

Azar, I'd like to offer my experiences to help console you. My sister was initially diagnosed with Stage III/IV cancer, and died 4 years later. By that time the cancer had metastasized throughout her body, from head to toe. Her last months were unpleasant, frustrating and very, very emotional.

She was unhappy, depressed and sometimes just miserable. She was never that kind of person when she was healthy - she was an RN, worked out, held exercise classes for elderly folks at centers, ate well and thrived.

Cancer changed that. She continued to eat well when she could tolerate food. Our family has grown our own food for years, when we could. I am a staunch supporter of natural remedies myself. But cancer is more powerful than we are.

In my limited experience, it's not unusual to experience an abatement in pain or other symptoms. But that doesn't mean that the cancer has been cured; my sister experienced several periods of more healthy conditions, but the cancer always returned, aggressively.

I think those of us who survive someone who's died of cancer can never really know how much that person may have suffered, and that's certainly no reflection on the compassion and emotion you've expressed her.

People just don't always express their pain. My sister didn't; my father doesn't. I know also that both of them didn't want to burden their living relatives and withheld detail on their agonies.

Your sister might have felt that, and as a nurse, I suspect she knew what was happening before the family did.

Our bodies aren't strong enough to eliminate some toxins, nor are they strong enough to spontaneously cure some of the disastrous diseases that have manifested themselves through time.

Remember as well that some of these diseases are man made, through insecticide and chemical contamination of food, water, cosmetics, the environment...bodies haven't developed immunity to some of the devastating diseases people have created or contributed to.

Your faith and love for your sister are touching. I recall that I felt that way when my sister died. But over the years I realize how many clues I missed, and most of all, I remember the agony of her last months.

In retrospect, I wish I had had more insight and could have gotten her into a hospice program sooner. By the time the cancer had spread through her entire body, it was time for relief. Her last days were miserable. I wish in retrospect I had the insight to realize that and authorize hospice sooner, and alleviate her misery.

I hope this helps you as you reflect on her life and her legacy, moving from "if only" to being glad that's she no longer suffering.

126Cher,
Have you changed your email address?
Do you check the board on someone else's phone?
Contact the administrator. (I don't know how to do that). Look on the main page. I think it's supposed to be an automatic 'subscription' to the thread you've posted on.
I know I wait for notifications and I don't seem to get as many as I've replied to.
Good luck.

Agar,
I'm so sorry about your sister.
I, too, believe in the power of prayer. My husband was saved from death (pneumonia) by prayer and God's mercy. His chance of surviving was only 10%!
I also believe health can be restored in many cases with a drastic change in diet and the additions of vitamins and minerals. My grandma survived many more years by doing just that.

However, Stage 4 breast cancer is practically impossible to survive. According to the website Healthline;
"The American Cancer Society (ACS) states that the five-year survival rate after diagnosis for people with stage 4 breast cancer is 22 percent.
This percentage is considerably lower than at earlier stages. At stage 3, the five-year relative survival rate is 72 percent. At stage 2, it’s over 90 percent."

I'm sorry to say that, (in my humble opinion and 38 years of nursing), I don't think juicing would be effective in riding metastatic cancer (cancer that has spread to others areas or organs) from the body. I understand trying everything and, sometimes it seems to work but, as time goes on, (as you said she was there 'several months before') the patient declines in health as the cancer advances.

In my opinion, a terminal patient should NEVER be in pain. You can titrate the dosage to fit their needs but they should always be comfortable as they journey to the next realm.
Her death was inevitable but at least she was comfortable. Hospice did not kill your sister, she died of cancer in a comfortable state. Be grateful she wasn't writhing in pain , as I have seen others go.