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Morphine relieves pulmonary congestion and folks with CHF will breathe easier and be more comfortable with a reasonable dose. And it relieves pain, even the pain of a heart attack. Too much does depress respiration so the person builds up carbon dioxide and does not get enough oxygen and if that is severe enough, it can hasten or cause death. Given IV it acts fast, given SQ not quite so fast; doses are close to equivalent, and when you say 10x the dose was given that is of concern for a medication error. If that did happen, the nurse may not have even realized it, she may have been giving what was ordered and it may have been well in range that someone might have tolerated - people vary a lot on how much of any opioid will be needed for symptom relief, or cause any side effects; typically if you have been on it a while you have more tolerance. In hospice they often schedule pain meds on a round the clock regular basis to prevent pain or distress rather than waiting for it to occur, theoretically that allows lower doses and better alertness, but practically speaking, doses can accumulate as someone's metabolism slows down as it can with illness or aging.

I hope you do not have to go on with the image of a nurse just casually and deliberately giving a lethal dose to your mom...but if there was an error or a failure to respect your and your mom's wishes for how alert she may have wanted to be, you are entitled to know and file complaints at the very least.
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Thank you Christine73, I do suffer a lot, my Dad meant a lot to me, I do not expect him to end his life by mercy kill. He loves his life too, I was misleading by my own family and the medical staff. I will dig into the truth of the morphine dosage and how it works when they get inside the body. But I have to accept the fact I can not bring my Dad back, but I want the hospital and the hospice to stop doing this to another human being, they don't understand how much they are hurting people that to lost their love ones.
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countrymouse from pbfordad july 8, 2015. Thanks for your interest!
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Pshu333, I am not in the medical field. My info on this comes from experience of being around sick and dying people. I don't have all the details of exactly how morphine works in the body, but I do know that death is a possible side effect, and more likely when dosages of morphine are increased quickly instead of slowly. Respiratory depression is also listed as a side effect. It sounds like you really need an exact answer. I would get the medical records from the hospice and go over them with a doctor you trust. I'm so sorry you're suffering like this and you were made to feel powerless. You do have a legal right to this information.
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vstefans, it was saline, I now know, but they still gave her 10 times what I had been giving her at home, when she showed NO SIGNS of anxiety. She was completely comatose! And her last minutes of breathing were EXACTLY that...slower, then slower as each minute passed, until the final breath. It took all of 10 minutes. We went from Friday (3-4 days left) to Saturday (told not on the 48 hour watch yet), to Saturday evening (24 hours), to death, 4 hours later. You tell me.
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Hi Christine73: Are you in the Medical Field? I wish some one will give me a definite answer, how morphine work in your body, if a patient like my father has aspiration phemonious and my friend has COPD. Does morphine really helping them or hasten their death or just give them a mercy kill. What is respiratory depressant? Is this mean the lung slow down in taking the O2 to the body then all the organs will slowly die own their own because they are lack of O2? If you have a lot of knowledge about how morphine is really function inside our body, your sharing of the knowledge is greatly appreciated.
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OP, and others who have suffered and are still suffering, I am so so sorry. Morphine is a respiratory depressant. It will hasten death. They should tell you that.
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Very interesting?
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GardenArtist -- thank you for asking! I've just seen your post, and apologize for not answering sooner.
Currently, the hospice patient I care for is an older brother. But throughout the years, I've lost my mother, a younger brother, my sister-in-law, and two very close friends -- all under hospice care.
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jeannegibbs -- first, I offer my sincere condolences regarding the loss of your dear husband...and hope that your mother's health has continued to improve.

Also, I appreciate your sympathy regarding my own loss.

Secondly, I realize that some of my comments could use some clarification, and I'll now attempt that....with references:

Medicare pays for the vast majority of hospice care in the United States. (i)

Hospice care is intended for people with 6 months or less to live if the disease runs its normal course. If you live longer than 6 months, you can still get hospice care,
as long as the hospice medical director or other hospice doctor recertifies that you’re terminally ill. (ii)

In fact, that 6 month period is actually a Medicare rule --

"Your hospice doctor and your regular doctor (if you have one) certify that you’re terminally ill (with a life expectancy
of 6 months or less)." (iii)

Given just the information above, one might conclude that hospices would be quite diligent, when choosing which patients to accept.

Yet, in recent decades, what began as a movement to improve the end-of-life experience has become more of a commercial enterprise. (iv)
In fact, a 2011 Bloomberg News report noted that the growth in hospice care has been fueled by enrollment bonuses to employees and kickbacks to nursing homes
that refer patients. Investigators alleged that this led hospices to accept patients who weren’t actually eligible for the service. (v)

Personally, offering financial incentives for drumming-up more business, is a practice I find quite chilling!
But, jeanne, here's what I believe is the real problem --

Medicare has capped the average amount of money a hospice can make on a patient -- currently around $25,000 -- which amounts to about 180 days of routine care.
This is NOT a per-patient limit, but is AVERAGED OVER ALL OF THE HOSPICE'S PATIENTS. (vi)

Now, can you see why the hospice company might want the highest volume of patients, with the shortest amount of time remaining?
If you've ever worked in wholesale/retail, jeanne -- especially, dealing in a perishable product -- you'll probably recognize the term, "stock rotation."

(i) washingtonpost/business/economy/2014/12/26/a7d90438-692f-11e4-b053-65cea7903f2e_story.html

(ii) hospicenet/html/medicare.html

(iii) https://www.medicare.gov/pubs/pdf/02154.pdf

(iv) http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/leaving-hospice-care-alive-rising-rates-of-live-discharge-in-the-us-raise-questions-about-quality-of-care/2014/08/06/13a4e7a0-175e-11e4-9e3b-7f2f110c6265_story.html

(v) bloomberg/news/2011-12-06/hospice-care-revealed-as-14-billion-u-s-market.html

(vi) washingtonpost/business/economy/medicare-rules-create-a-booming-business-in-hospice-care-for-people-who-arent-dying/2013/12/26/4ff75bbe-68c9-11e3-ae56-22de072140a2_story.html
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josiewails, where on earth did you get the idea that hospice gets government funding for 6 months per patient, regardless of how long the patient lives? Your whole rant is based on that falsehood.

My husband lived 5 weeks after being admitted to hospice. My mother was discharged when she improved greatly after 3 months. Hospice has to bill medicare for their services. They do not get a flat fee per patient.

I am so very sorry that you view your mother's death as murder. That has to be unbearably traumatic for you.

Please do not spread false information about how Hospice providers are funded for their work.
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Oh, horselady, sorry for your loss. BUT, ASK what was in the syringes, don't just assume what you are assuming. I'd bet dollars to donuts one was a saline flush - the one that they gave part of, then the rest of it after the medication one. You should be able to find out what the medication one actually was. If she was comatose from a stroke, it was a very, very bad one to start wtih, and she could almost certainly not have recovered. What you saw at the very end was periodic or Cheyne-Stokes breathing due to neurologic compromise - you would more likely have just seen slower and shallower respiration until it stopped if she was overdosed. I hope you find out she was not mistreated.
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My mom passed away just this past Saturday in hospice. She had a stroke Wednesday night, we admitted her in-patient Thursday night. Friday morning when relatives started arriving, she was already non-responsive. The nurse asked us if an iv was ok because she wasn't swallowing any longer, and they wanted to be able to give her pain meds. She was just laying there unconscious.

We asked if they could tell us how long she had, since she was no longer eating or drinking. They said maybe 3 or 4 days. They told my sister Friday night that she was NOT on the 48 hour "watch": she had no skin mottling on her feet, no rattle in her lungs, etc.
Saturday, the remaining family members arrived in early afternoon. Earlier that morning, my sister, who had stayed the night, told me they put a subcutaneous injection port in her arm, so the meds would "last longer". At 3:30 Saturday afternoon, the nurse came in with 2 full sized syringes, not the skinny ones I had used to give her pain and anxiety meds at home. One was half full, the other full. She screwed the full one into the port and injected half, then all of the half full one, then the rest of the first. My mom had never moved, never opened her eyes, never responded at all. There was no reason to give her anything.

I went home to nap, since I was so exhausted. At 6 pm, my daughter called from the hospital. They had told her that mom would probably be gone in 24 hours. I got there about 6:30. My father, sister, and daughter were all around her, each with a hand on her. Mom was laying on her back, a gasping breath coming every minute or so. I laid my head next to hers, listening as her breathing slowed. About ten minutes after I got there, she took her last breath. I have never been so utterly devastated in my life. What a horrible thing to experience. I can't get the image or sound out of my head, nor the look on that nurses face as she euthanized my mother.
I am shaking so bad right now, I can hardly type. I fell apart that night. Totally apart. It wasn't until the next morning that I put it all together. They HAD to use the subcutaneous, because that much morphine in an iv would have killed her in seconds. They had to make it look natural. And how did we go from 3 days on Friday, to 24 hours on Saturday, to dead in 4 hours??
Of course, when I told my sister this, she said she didn't blame them for her dying so quickly. That she was glad it was over quick and that mom didn't have to suffer. I say she should have been allowed to die naturally, with the minimal pain medication. She was murdered, plain and simple.
I won't be able to pursue it legally, but they WILL know that I know what they did. I will never get over this. I will never forget, and never forgive.
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I'm loving this thread. It has been a year since my MIL passed. I still think her death was rushed. Any time I mentioned it (to family or whoever) I was told I'm not a doctor, I was in denial about her condition, etc. NO. Her story is just like so many here. Maximum amount of haldol plus morphine, she stopped eating and drinking (too drugged to do so) and died.
Let it be on the conscience of those that take it upon themselves to decide that someone should die. As far as I'm concerned if the patient is asking for help that's different. It's a compassionate act. But how many are blindsided by overdoses? They never saw it coming, or worse knew it was happening and couldn't do anything about it.
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pbfordad -- I'm sorry for your loss.
But please, do not carry any guilt at signing the DNR. I have seen the way they pressure family into doing just that -- and sadly...worse.

I'm reading so many heart-wrenching posts, here. Many of us, it seems, are harboring varying degrees of guilt -- and all of it, undeserved!

Any caring human being is most vulnerable (I'm using that word a lot, lately) when facing the loss of their loved ones.

Just like in the old days of the traveling salesman -- a foot in the door almost insures a sale!
And certain hospice workers are trained to do just that -- get that foot in.
Their business is death..and some are very good at it.

I'm not saying that most hospice workers are so calloused. There are wonderful, caring people who work in palliative care. I have known a few, and would trust them with my own life.

But there are also stages to hospice care , and workers trained specifically to handle those stages.
Yes, there are "closers," too....and they are the actual "foot in the door" folks.

I recall once watching a group of them surrounding a poor patient's bed. At the time, it appeared to me to be a loving circle of friends and family....attempting to bring comfort to the ailing patient.
I did not know the man they were "embracing," but something about it....something just didn't feel quite right.
Perhaps, it was because the gathered comforters seemed a little too euphoric for the ominous scene?

Years later, while attending a child's birthday party at a well-known eatery, the reality finally hit me.
Here was a celebration of a life.
But what I'd witnessed years earlier was hardly a celebration of the man's life -- but of it's ending!

It takes a particular type of person to do what I now call "The Chucky" celebration.
I'm sure that not all of them are so morbidly enthralled with the job.
But some are. And what better place to seek employment, than in the care of the most helpless?

I'd like to see more stringent qualifications for people who work with the vulnerable.
Psychological testing should certainly be a part of their tentative employment.

And if anyone suggests that many hospice care workers are medical professionals....remember that more than a few errant nurses have been tagged with the moniker -- "angel of death!"

My harsh approach is not meant to slander any particular form of health care provider.
The truly compassionate caregivers are real "angels." Their work is hard, and often unrewarding. And it takes a great deal of strength to work with the ill, the elderly and the disabled, daily....while trying, all the while, to keep your heart from breaking.

But rather, my goal is to anger the rest of us! Yes, to anger us into action, and to force the changes that must be made!

Remembering our loved ones is a good start. Remember, too, that we may someday find ourselves in the same dire situation.
Fight for the rights of terminal patients and their families, that they're allowed to make their own informed decisions, without being pressured.
What better way to honor the memory of those we've lost?
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flowgo -- thank you! I lost my mother under similar circumstances. I was physically removed from her hospital room, when they came with the morphine "kill" shot! I was only a teenager at the time, but still...I knew what had just happened.
Yet, in retrospect, I do not hold hospice solely to blame. The bottom line appears to be the real culprit -- $$.
Lingering patients are always costly. Exorbitant pricing makes even a short hospital stay, an unrecoverable cost. So, it's easy to see why hospitals and nursing care facilities would embrace hospice care, because it affords them a financial workaround.
The facility may still house the patient, but has essentially subcontracted them out.
Now, the loss becomes a gain -- for both the facility, and the new caregiver.
How?

Well, hospice is essentially "renting" space for the patient.
Still, how can that be a boon for both businesses? (yes, they are businesses!)

Enter government; you know -- the folks who write the laws that protect us?
Yeah, those folks...who can usually afford to avoid hospice care for themselves, and their own families.
(I have yet to hear of any ranking official being put under hospice care. Have you?)

So, government attempts to solve the problem of terminally ill patients, by ordaining hospice to weed those patients out of the healthcare system. Hospice is granted a stipend (our tax dollars hard at work?) purported to cover a dying patient for up to 6 months of care.
On its face, this idea would appear to make sense. And it might work well, IF it were possible to predict exactly how long a terminal patient will last.

However, such predictions aren't always correct. And so, the long-lingering patient again becomes....a financial problem. And hospice services must be very careful about which patients to accept.

We already know that we're all fallible human beings...and doctors are no exception.
So, just because a patient is declared terminally ill....we can't always be sure.
Then too, the hospice now caring for that not-terminal-enough patient is facing financial loss, should the patient's life be prolonged beyond that 6-month funding window.

Conversely, the short-lived hospice patient is a financial gain for hospice, since the unused funds remain in their coffers....supposedly, to go toward the care of the aforementioned lingerers.
But again -- we're discussing a business...with employees, drug costs, rent, etc
.
So, how do you maintain the business...and still make a profit? (an ice-cold term, under these circumstances!)

By choosing the patient most likely to die within the shortest amount of time, so as not to exceed the government funding, and to actually leave behind an unused balance.

Could this setup actually tempt some hospices into hastening their patients' deaths?

Might the contracting hospital/nursing facility look the other way, as their own bottom line is involved, as well?

And finally, could some hospices even resort to other means of making a profit -- like the sale of human organs, for example?

I know that this post will stimulate some controversy. In fact, I'm hoping for it!

It's hard to say how the new healthcare system will effect the "death industry."
My guess -- it will only make matters worse for those who cannot afford to die under their own terms.
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Pbfordad, where is the longer version please? I'd like to read it, if you can remember roughly where and when you posted?
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I haven't commented in a while. I think I get more help from this website than I do going to a grief counselor because I read that others have been in a similar situation and are just as angry. The skilled nursing facility where my dad had been for rehab ( I have already written the longer version of the circumstances) I believe killed my dad with morphine and Ativan within a few hours after I signed the DNR. I would really like to tell some of the caregivers and doctors at the facility that I know what they were up to ( to be polite about it) but I know it would do no good just perhaps give me a little satisfaction. I don't think I will ever get over blaming myself for trusting them and for what they did to him. I was very emotionial at the time when the nurse came in to give him morphine a few hours before and I said "no". He was already sedated with medication and asleep. The head of the nursing staff came in in a few minutes with another nurse and called me out of the room and pounded her fist at me telling me "it is the law". They said it was comfort care. Four hours later he was dead! About a week later asked for his list of medications for the two days before he died. They had started giving him morphine and Ativan every hour and kept increasing the strength until he passed. They had given him morphine the night before for the first time and he questioned what they were doing and the dosage and that they assured him that he would receive no more medication until the morning. That was about midnight. The next morning they gave him oxycontin, I can't remember the dosage. He apparently developed apnea in the afternoon. They called me at work and I immediately went there. I would have seen him in a couple of hours
as I did everyday, regardless. Anyway, That's when 5 staff members surrounded me insisting I sign a DNR. Four hours later he was gone. I am so angry and stressed!!
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Pshu, that's exactly what worries me. That you have been led to blame your family, yourself and your father's attending team for his death, with all of the hurt and anger that involves.

For the record, I am opposed to euthanasia, and to assisted suicide, and to anything else it might be called. Just so we're clear on that.

I am also in favour of treating people regardless of their numerical age, medically if they have any realistic prospect of recovery, and palliatively if they haven't.

I don't know exactly what happened to your father, of course; and I am in any case sorry for your loss. The point I want to make is that if you are being advised that there is a possibility that a nurse would intentionally have misdirected your father's feeding tube in order to induce aspiration pneumonia and kill him… then that advice is extremely cruel and deeply misguided.

My father died very suddenly and unexpectedly at 71. Soon after somebody said to me "oh well, he'd had his life then," and I have never forgiven that person; so I understand how hurtful your co-workers' attitude must be. My mother died this year at 90, at home, where I cared for her. I was a tireless advocate for my 96 year old great aunt when poor health care following a fall at home nearly did for her; it took a lot of fast talking to get her moved to a better hospital, after which she lived for four more good years. I come from a whole family of long-lived people, mostly ladies; and I would have loved nothing more than to see them reach 100 and keep going, with their skates on. So believe me, if your father had been my father then I too would have been in the ER doing my best to get him the best possible care and hoping he could recover.

But look. There are two points to consider about his fall. The first is that very often it is a stroke that causes the fall, not the other way about. The second is that, either way, either he had a very serious stroke or it was such a serious fall that he suffered a major head injury. At any age, and whatever the state of a person's body otherwise, that is extremely dangerous.

How long after his admission was it decided to insert a feeding tube? I am a little surprised that this was done, because it is a risky procedure precisely because of the problems you describe. Did the medical staff come under pressure to do it, or was it their recommendation?

Look. You have a choice. You can torture yourself and think ill of the nurse and blame everybody, including yourself, for your father's death. Or you can speak to your own doctor about what happened, and get a clear explanation of the medical issues. The bottom line, though, is that your father had an unsurvivable brain injury unrelated to his age. That's enough sadness to have to cope with, without adding poisonous suspicions to it. Please think this through and don't multiply your grief.
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You are so right and so well said flowgo. When my father was decided by my family and the hospital's comfort care to decide to let him go and put him on morphine, I asked some co-workers at work nobody give me any support, one co-worker even said to me "your father is 100 years old and he should die. and another co-worker said what do you expect my father die at age 70." They don't understand my father though 100 years old but his body is very healthy just because he had a backward fall and caused him to have a stroke from his blood clotted in the brain then the nurse adjusted his feeding tube at 1:00am to cause food get to his lung (I wonder she did that on purpose after I read the 911 report). I requested the nurse to sit up my father every two hours so his lung can get some exercise, if she did that on purpose she will live on her bad karma. People seems has no sympathy for my father because he is 100 years old. Yours words help me to interpret how wrong they did to my dad. "Letting a person die on their own is not the same as the staff taking it upon themselves to cut a person's life short by whatever way they see fit. That should never ever be their right to decide for a person, if they do decide this, it is a mercy killing which is very illegal and the decease has never agreed to that, it is illegal to do so but still happens".
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Josie what cwillie said is what I have heard many times. That is definitely not the case with my mom. Not even close. My mom was not dying she was healthy until the sedative overdoses that were given to her for no reason at all mostly in the hospital. It just caused complications. She had only been in the hospital once maybe twice before these drugging started. She is not the only elder who suffered from these wrongdoings.The public needs to be aware of this and how horrible it is. Letting a person die on their own is not the same as the staff taking it upon themselves to cut a person's life short by whatever way they see fit. That should never ever be their right to decide for a person.If they do decide this, it is a mercy killing which is very illegal but still happens.
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josiewails very well said.
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Josie, for whom are you caring?
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Josie, I want to speak in defence of hospice and medications at the end of life. Yes, it seems as though many here have had horrific experiences surrounding the end of life of someone they held dear. But I firmly believe most of this is due to misinformation and misunderstanding.

Morphine and ativan are given to reduce suffering and control agitation, not to speed death. Often the trade off is that the person is no longer lucid or aware, but IMO that is better than aware, afraid and suffering.

Food is withheld at the end of life because the dying no longer need food, in fact the dying body can no longer digest the food we eat and eating can cause harm.

I.V. hydration is similar to food, fluids can build up in the lungs and around the heart and cause increased suffering.

Today we have the technology to keep the heart beating and the shell of the body alive, tying the soul to the earth instead of letting it depart. Is this prolonging of life really just??
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I would agree with dogabone's criticism of the topic question, but apparently, for the opposite reason. The question implies no bias -- it simply asks.
Yet, the posts predominantly lean toward a "No" answer. So, either that is the real truth, or....a lot of the posters are mistaken.
Given that hospice actually advertises on this site, I find it difficult to believe that bias plays no part in the content thereof.
And having read the "About Us" page, I'd be even more inclined to question this discussion.
As an advocate for life, myself (most likely, because I am alive, and wish to remain so) I do not differentiate between the unborn, and the already here.
The young, the old, the infirm -- all are equal in their right to live.
I do not discriminate....and I do not sanction the premature taking of any human life -- no matter how small, feeble, or presumably insignificant.
Because there is no insignificant human life.
And to take that life prematurely, is an "m" word....but "mercy" isn't it.
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((Hugs)) flow. X
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I guess I should not talk about how I feel about it since that is pretty upsetting to people. Sorry I will just talk about what happened and leave my feelings out of it.
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I said that if these killers were put in prison then I can be more at ease but it looks like they got away with murder. There are people on here that have gone through similar cases and would like to know that they are not alone, so by telling them and if I can warn others then at least something good came out of this. I am already living with it that is all I can do. Like I said therapy can not help these kind of situations. I just have to deal with it which I am.
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Flow, you referenced "legal matters". What's the status of the malpractice suit or criminal actions, which I assume is what you're referencing?
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Flow, you say you have an open wound that will not heal until you resolve things to your satisfaction, but that is the whole problem, isn't it? If no one ever is prosecuted for what happened must you shout in anguish until you die??

Please try again to find someone who can help you move forward with your life, not to forget, but to find a way to live with this 'wound' and find comfort and joy in the future.
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