Follow
Share
Read More
This discussion has been closed for comment. Start a New Discussion.
Find Care & Housing
For pain..possible cracked scapula from fall 4 weeks ago. They put her on gabapentin at nursing home, then vicodin because she still had bad pain. I always talk to the dr/nurse about her meds. She has had bad side effects of many, many meds for the past several years. No doubt she would have been dead long ago if not for intervention and changing meds.
(0)
Report

Gabapentin? What's she taking that for? You mentioned low dose Vicodin for pain relief - was she already on Gabapentin for chronic pain or something?

Don't tinker with any medications without at least informing her MD, or not unless you're a trained pharmacologist anyway (which I am definitely not, by the way). It may well be that her overall px does need an urgent review, especially if there has been a change in kidney function or heart function, but this is no job for an amateur - get advice.
(1)
Report

Thanks to both of you for your info. Interesting thing about the TIA/stroke theory. I wonder also if that is the case. And cwillie, I know there are good and bad, but as long as I can care for her at home like I have been, we will keep hospice on the back burner.
Bad night last night though, I think she is having bad side effects from the gabapentin. She woke up at midnight with nightmares and delusions, then fell this morning (seems ok physically). so I am going to wean her off it. Ugh!
(0)
Report

Horselady, the very nature of the question posted on this thread attracts all those who have had a terrible experience with hospice. There are also many stories posted by those who are grateful for their hospice providers. Like everything in life, there is good and there is bad, but you can't base decisions by what you read on one thread Like everything else in caregiving, we all try to make the best, most informed choices we can.
(3)
Report

Ah. Here's the thing. Both TIAs and small strokes can leave no trace on CT, MRI or anything else - it all depends on where they happen and what damage they do, and the radiographer has to be lucky and/or very quick off the mark to catch them in the act. Whereas A Fib is a notorious stroke source, especially if it's severe enough to warrant ongoing treatment.

So not to be alarmist, but if your mother has that kind of cardiac history, combined with her current symptoms, I would remain extremely suspicious notwithstanding the negative test results.

Not that it necessarily makes any difference in terms of treatment - she's already taking anti-clotting meds, is she? - but it can't do any harm to keep an extra eye open for symptoms. I'm sorry to be a doom merchant. Hope she gradually recovers and things get more stable for her, best of luck to you.
(1)
Report

They did a brain CT and other tests and said no stroke, so no, we think she just slipped, like she did 2 years ago and broke her ankle (which ended up with a surgery , 6 weeks in snf, and her family Dr. saying she might not recover or live another year! I said, it's a broken ankle! How can that be life threatening??! Turns out when they changed her meds for A fib, she reacted badly to it. It took me and another Dr. weeks to figure out why she was vomiting and not eating. When elderly are involved, check meds first!
Thanks for your input. I am talking to rest of family in a couple of weeks to get their input.
(1)
Report

Horselady, do you think your mother's fall might have been caused by a stroke? Extreme sleepiness is very common after that and can go on for a long time - several weeks, stretching into months. I mention it because, with my own mother at least, recovery did eventually happen - all is not lost! Hugs to you, and keep up the good work.
(0)
Report

One thing I did want to question: some are saying that it is financial reasons that the hospice ends life. Wouldn't they get more money if the person stays alive??
(1)
Report

I am so glad I saw this discussion! I care for my 90 year old mother who has been getting worse since a fall a month ago. She sleeps all the time, barely eats, and was in pain until I begged for pain medicine for her (she is very senstive so I got the lowest Vicodin available. Give her half every 6 hours. She is comfortable). I thought about hospice but now I won't, until or unless she is at a point that I can't take care of her, or she is suffering. She doesn't need strong drugs. She sleeps 23 hours a day, and as long as she is comfortable, I will keep hospice away. Thanks to all who contributed.
(1)
Report

From our daily newspaper:

"Healthy nurse uses suicide clinic to 'avoid old age.'"

Good grief. The article begins [caveat, by the way, the journalist who wrote this is pretty free with her adjectives and has annoyed me in the past by being plain silly. But let that pass] :

'A leading palliative care nurse with no serious health problems has ended her life at a Swiss suicide clinic because she did not want to end up as a "hobbling old lady."

'Gill Pharaoh, 75, who wrote two books on how to care for the elderly, was not suffering from a terminal disease. She said she had seen enough of old age to know that she was "going over the hill" and wanted to take action to end her life while she was able to do so.'

There are eight more paragraphs like this and frankly it's far too depressing and bonkers to type all of it - if anyone wants to look up the article, you should be able to find it on The Daily Telegraph's website I expect.

A spokesman for Care Not Killing said: deeply troubling case, chilling message etc etc.

While a spokesman for The Society for Old Age Rational Suicide (can't they come up with a snappier title than that? Let's Get Dead or something?) went for the lofty tone with having seen much suffering… rational decision… blah blah blah.

So standard party lines, really; no surprises there.

But what neither the grandly-titled Health Editor nor either spokesman comments on is the, to me anyway, far more alarming question of what kind of palliative care this lady was dishing out on a daily basis that made her feel so strongly that death was preferable. And she wrote books? I hope they're going to die with her.
(4)
Report

It does not mean rush them to their death. They also put elders on hospice after they have drugged them into a coma and say that they are in last stages of dementia even if they don't have dementia. Of course these overdoses can cause them to have less than 6 months to live. Drug overdoses where the patient is put in to a coma can look like end stages of many diseases. The doctor can make something up after patient is drugged. Also if they are not being treated for a treatable disease or are treated with the wrong meds, this can also make them look like the last stages of whatever the doctor diagnoses. Hospitals and hospices like this really need to be investigated.It seems too many patients are being pushed into death by sedatives or pain meds just for being elder.Good reason to not vote for euthanasia. It is already too easy for medical staff to euthanize why make it easier for them.
(0)
Report

Isn't he on Hospice because he has an incurable disease? My understanding of hospice is that the patient must be thought by an MD to have 6 months or less to live.
(0)
Report

yes, I had the same experience. Right now our dear friend went to the hospice on Thursday on Friday he was alert and talking, and eating. On Saturday he was unresponsive. They were giving him morphine he really wants to live and the church is praying for him but they keep on giving him morphine. I think that those facilities accelerate peoples dead. He is still there with no hope to get better since the drugs are so powerful.
(0)
Report

pbfordad This is true, like with my mom, the medical staff used her dnr to their advantage. If I did that, I would never be able to stand myself.I'm not sure how these kind of medical staff can live with themselves after doing such atrocities. People like that need to be locked up and never see the light of day. I am usually a pushover when it comes to punishment, but not in this case.
(0)
Report

But it is unfortunately!
(0)
Report

I would say under no circumstances would a dnr be used to help a patient die. That is not what it should be used for.
(0)
Report

Yes I agree! There should be a document attached to a DNR that states that the hospice nurses, and employees will not willfully or knowingly ease a patient in to death without the family's written consent.
(0)
Report

pbfordad There are too many people who are just not being treated the way they should be in the medical field. They are getting the worse care which causes either terrible damage or death. It happens in hospitals nursing homes and hospice. It is so horrendous. This is America so I would think that medical care would be good here, So often it is the opposite as I also found out.It is absolutely devastating to say the least. I hope if enough of us get together we can change laws and enforce other laws.
(1)
Report

denawesley I am so sorry I told some others on here that people who have been through similar situations like you me and others on here and other sites should start an online support group and we can also talk about laws that need to be put in place and laws that need to be enforced.
(1)
Report

I think it depends on the hospice. My experience with my dad was not acceptable, as explained earlier, and they kept the info. that he was getting morphine every hour and also Ativan for the entire day, until the evening when they wanted me to sign a DNR or take him to the hospital and act aggressively ( they really amplified what the hospital would do to him) or just keep him comfortable at the facility! What a bunch of cra.... They are the ones that caused him to be in that condition/situation. This whole thing could have been handled MUCH better with the end being much more acceptable to deal with. My dad is gone nonetheless. He tried to talk to his great granddaughter just a couple of hours before he died, but all he got out when he opened his eyes was "baby" before the drugs took him under again.
(1)
Report

There seems to be such a wide ranging scenario in how hospices work...for me, having gone through one that I was not crazy about due to some isses of just ignoring Mama's pain ( I promptly changed providers..it wasn't hard to do either) but our current hospice is a Godsend. We are NEVER made to do anything...They went over Mama's situation, totally bedfast, dementia/alzheimers, nothing but ensure whatsoever, but they provider the comfort care pack, they even provided a hoist to help me lift her to move her to a geri chair to help relieve pressure and give her some variety...our hospice could not be any better....so I am so saddened to hear that so many of you are in situations where you are forced to give meds you feel arent' needed right now, forced to do anything that goes against your loved ones wishes...that just seems so confusing to me....I sure am thankful for our team of folks....
(1)
Report

I'm so sorry for your loss dena. Words seem inadequate at such a time...I will say a prayer for you and hope you can find peace....so very sorry... ((hugs))
(1)
Report

my mother died 5 days ago. Her last words were " what's happening to me" she was talking and staying awake and 7 days later she died. they didn't give her anything to eat or drink during that time. once hospice took her she never opened her eyes or said another word. she was on both medications. she didn't like to be drugged up and in the beginning of her hospice stay she would tell them no and they gave it anyways. so yes I feel like that rushed my mothers death. she was taken care of poorly too at the hospital . very disappointed and disgusted. heartbroken.
(0)
Report

Thank you flowgo! I think that everyone wants what is best but care from providers don't always mean they are right. This is one of the biggest problems for elderly because not always are they heard.
(1)
Report

Smudge well said
(0)
Report

If it was sepsis there are plenty of elders who survive sepsis if it is treated right and they have a good doctor.
(1)
Report

pbfordad Isn't that interesting how so many people on here completely ignore the fact that you and your dad did not want those drugs but they were forced upon him. Same situation as I was in. My mom was forced to take drugs that she nor I wanted her to take.There was even one time that I stood in between the doctors and my mom trying to protect her.All that happened was they threatened to call the security.

We are not alone, there are others who have been through the same situation right here on this site and I know of others on other sites also.It is so very wrong and against a patients rights for any medical facility to force drugs on patients who do not want them. I do believe that a patient does have a right to refuse drugs that they do not want.I think this law should be enforced. Other laws should be put in place such as informing patients of the dangers they face when going into hospice as if the disease is not enough of a problem. My mom was forced into hospice because of her age and a sedative overdose. She was in a sedative overdose that she had not come out of for 2 weeks.

She also had a hospital skin fungal infection.The hospital that she went to was treating it with about 4 different kinds of fungal meds no antibiotic cause antibiotic is deadly for this kind of infection. It will make it spread.The doctor said she was on the road to recovery even though she was still in a coma from the sedative overdose. She needed to continue the treatment. but she went to another hospital to see her original doctor and they decided to treat her to antibiotics which they knew would kill her especially since she was so weakened from so many sedative overdoses.They sent her to hospice and put the antibiotics in the vein in her neck to make sure she would still get her deadly dose for her condition.These kinds of treatments of sedative overdoses and all the other horrible treatments just need to stop. I found out later that the doctors did not want to bother to continue to treat her because of her age even though it was helping her so much.

Then I found out that on her death certificate that several end stages disease were listed that she never had cause an investigation was done you can ask for an investigation also for your dad.


Maybe we can get an online support group going with other people who have been through the same things as we have and figure out ways to change the laws.
(1)
Report

Countrymouse, no I won't be afraid to change my mind because it will always be whats best for my father. It will be his decision until he can't make the decision for himself. I have spoken with him about his wishes...
(3)
Report

Smudge, I pray that God will be gentle with your father, and besides may he have many happy years of good health ahead. Just please don't be too afraid to revise your opinion if things don't go so well when the time comes.
(2)
Report

Sallyboo2350, I'am glad that you are getting the type of care that you want, but my mother had months to live and yes i know for a fact that she would never have died two days after being in hospice. That is why i feel the way that i do. I understand that people need hospice care, only reason i made a reply was that it is true that hospice over medicates until people die. Yes I could have sued, but I was hurting so bad that it wasn't an option. Now I'am taking care of my 80 year old father and never will he go to hospice he will die the way god intends for him to die. That is my opinion.
(1)
Report

This discussion has been closed for comment. Start a New Discussion.
Start a Discussion
Subscribe to
Our Newsletter