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HI Cheekah,
Yeah, there are a lot of us out there, children of narcissistic parents. I knew my mom didn't want my affection when I was 5. She pushed me away when I was running to hug her, right after she got her hair done. She thought I'd mess it up. That action spoke volumes, even to a 5 year old. I remember it as though it was yesterday and I'm 60!

I was an "oops" baby. My folks weren't married (my mother was still legally married to someone else) and she got pregnant. They were "party people" who got caught. After 5 years of physical fighting, they divorced. She had 2 more husbands after my dad. I knew I was in the way.
Mother always said she was part of the women's liberation movement but only wanted the attention of men and to be babied and spoiled by them. She never had any girlfriends because any woman was competition. I was never complimented but always cut down. My hair wasn't cut right, I was too fat, I wore unstylish clothes, etc. As I got older, it continued. My grades were never good enough and I would probably not amount to much. (She sold dresses at a chain store-I became a nurse.) I wound up not needing or caring for her affection. I kept in contact with her just to be polite.
Fast forward to today. She's 94, lives in a memory care facility and has Stage 5-6 Alzheimer's disease. I hate seeing her with this disease but at least there's a silver lining in this cloud. She's done a complete turnaround. She now compliments me on what I wear and how I look and how sweet I am, not knowing who I am. How bittersweet, I finally get to hear what I should have been hearing throughout my childhood. It's a tragedy that she had to wind up with Alzheimer's to do it.
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SueC--you get it. When did you know that your mother didn't want to be hugged or kissed? That says a lot. My mother "doesn't like people who hug me. They're just low class." What do you do with such a misanthropic and hateful person? I would visit other people's homes and their mothers were kind, funny, welcoming and great cooks. I'd go back to one of my many houses ( An only child--I went to 28 schools in 7 countries--diplomatic corps) and she was screaming at me or my dad that linen table-cloth was crooked or the silver wasn't perfectly polished. I recall distinctly knocking on her mansion door in the 1990s after not seeing her for five years and I had lost weight, had (and still have) this great job and wonderful husband, and looked great, and I smiled and the first words out of her mouth were, "You look younger and thinner--are you on drugs?" (Something I've NEVER done in my life.) The visit went downhill from there as I kept trying to negotiate and curry favor with a cobra. What do you DO with such a wretched, cruel "mirror, mirror--who's the most beautiful of all" kind of mother? My wonderful friends have marveled at my courage at building a lovely and civilized and elegant life on my own--and yet all I feel is abject terror and will PANIC and eat like there is no tomorrow. Why doesn't that 97-year-old die? I don't feel guilty typing this comment--only fear and I feel that I am cowering in a cave. I feel courageous for others and will gladly kick your mother in the ankles on your behalf--but for my own mother--I feel nothing, but terror.
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I, too, was relieved that others felt "less than loving" about their narcissistic parents. I never wanted to share my feelings because we are 'supposed to' love our parents no matter what. I felt like I would throw up just to hug or kiss my mother, (who found it disgusting anyway).
My friend and I, because of our upbringing with narcissistic mothers, probably won't be as badly shaken up when the Good Lord takes our moms. It's hard to feel close to someone who hasn't wanted to be close with you. I will be grateful that she (and I) will be out of the misery of end stage Alzheimer's disease but I will always wonder what it would have been like to have a mom as a friend.
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I've shared in this conversation over nearly the last three years, and I can finally say, it's over - she's gone - she wrote me out of her life, took me out of the family trust as Executor - replaced the Executor with no one, so the county is grabbing her money, property, etc. I took the high road and got her all dressed up for her final resting place, and it has been emancipating as I am her only child. Her dementia and her anger towards me because I tried to bring home care to her as she fell constantly. I had been her physician for 20 years as she would never seek medical care. All the good I did for her proved absolutely to be of no regard to this woman and I have never felt better that this nightmare is finally over. Cut your losses early, don't hold on to a relationship that has died years earlier - it will kill you faster than it will kill your elderly parent... All the best to all of you. This discussion proved to be an amazing solace to me throughout this ordeal...
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"You are NOT the frame around your mother's portrait." Cheekah, love that expression!

Azmiranda, was your mother even meaner to your sister (the one she said looked like a monkey) than she was to you? If so, that is probably why she has nothing to do with your mother.

If your mother was also that way with you, rather than criticize your sister, consider backing away from your mother, also. We are only taken advantage of as much as we allow ourselves to be.
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Welcome Azmiranda! This board makes the best of a horrible situation.

Cheetah; "You are NOT the frame around your mother's portrait." I like that analogy. And how true it is that our narcissistic mothers feel like we owe them.

Mom is so far gone now (level 6) that she is no longer narcissistic (that's the good part). But it's sad that now she just repeats the same things over and over (30+ times an hour), but, true to form, it's always negative. ("The care givers don't like me, I don't like them, my daughter (me-but she doesn't know that) hates her" (not true), etc. The last visit was just like that. I had to leave because I couldn't redirect her with anything I said (How's the food?, Have you gone outside today?, Did you watch any tv lately?). It's futile to try to explain how things really are and I get so frustrated. The last moment before I left, when she was complaining about things, I let go of all the problems I have. Her eyes got wide for a moment, then she went back to her problems. It seems useless to visit. I wish I had more patience but I leave feeling like I'M going crazy. Thank God I can vent here. Thanks for listening.
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What courage it takes to admit that we are, as "good children", trying to negotiate with cruel and arrogant Scarlett O'Hara's. They are cute at 16 and creepy, spitting pit vipers at age 90. My frightening and insulting mother is 97, a former Hollywood "starlet", and displays NO signs of slowing down. She alienates everyone at her expensive retirement home and when I visit her (only three days a year on MY schedule), the other residents rush up to me to tell me how vicious and rude she is. I am terrified of her and everything to do with her. I feel I have a concrete slab on my chest and live at the other end of the state to stay away from her. I'm 62 and scared all the time. Thank the Lord for my prince of a husband. I did not have children because I did not want to be entangled with this woman on any level. With advice from CMAGNUM on this email trail, I went to a counselor and she said what we ALL NEED TO DO: SET BOUNDARIES--clear precise boundaries on YOUR terms. See her and operate around her on YOUR TERMS. You are NOT the frame around your mother's portrait.
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Azmiranda. Welcome. Good that you are standing firm on the finances, that is an area where too many caregivers give in. If she is really short of money see what help she may be eligeable for.
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Azmiranda, it is good your son is moving in. It may have made her think she wanted that room. But at least now that he is in it, she won't try to talk you into letting her move in. A lot of us grew up with mothers that weren't the best. It's strange that these not-so-good mothers can be the ones who expect the most from their kids when they get old. It sounds to me like you should practice saying things like "I could never do that" and "That would never work." Hope you're able to keep your sanity through the next years.

Welcome to the group!
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I googled my mom is a miserable, nasty, hateful person and it took me here to you wonderful people. I have been reading your posts for hours. I feel better in a lot of ways and worse in a lot of ways. My Mother has always been an extremely narcissistic mean, unloving person to everyone including her own parents, her own children and her husband. I have one older sister. My Father was an amazing, sweet, loving kind man who tolerated my Mothers cruel treatment of him. My Father told me that my Mom hated my sister from the get go, said she looked like a little monkey as a baby. Who does that? We lost my Dad about 2 years ago. She has since latched onto me. She tells me things and says "don't tell anyone else" such as that she fell, or is having some other problems. She didn't want to leave her home until she found out my son was moving back in with me now she is having a fit because she wanted that room. She won't move to assisted living. She thinks she is broke and calls me at work even to cry about her finances. I am so thankful for this group. I am at my wits end with her. She called this morning at work crying about her money again. I told her that she never ever helped me out when I was down and out with my finances. I explained that most people are living paycheck to paycheck in this day and age. I told her that I can't help her that she needs to talk to the bank and I will come over this evening to find out what is going on. I think she just wants me to feel sorry for her and say I will pay for everything. My sister meanwhile is home all day long and never checks on her or calls her at all. Not fair...not one bit.
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oops, I demanded a Pysch consult and she is now on Lexipro. I HIGHLY recommend drugs. She is still the same person, OCD, wants what she wants when she wants it, but the big difference is that she can't maintain the level of anger for that long, and she forgets it. For those of you dealing with the mood swings and angry, please think about antidepressants.
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I also keep going back to this thread because it helps! My mother is 93. She hasn't had an easy life, widowed at 35 with 3 kids under age 6 and no funds. She kept us all together but was often in a rage. I probably couldn't be as strong as she was but you can be sure she made us, and, especially me, the only daughter, the respository of her misery. Hospitalized 7 times in the last year, in rehab for 4 months, total, 9 ER visits. We started her on Nazmaric and she seemed a little better but still vicious. After the last time she was hospitalized when there was NOTHING WRONG with her, but she caused such a scene that it was all that could be done, I
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I too had a bad relationship with my mother all of my life (she tried to abort me twice) and literally hates me because it didn't work.

I have a younger brother whom she adores. I tried to be a "good" daughter, but at 50yrs old I'm done. I no longer speak to my mother we have no relationship.

When the time comes (she healthy now) that she starts to decline it will be up to her "favorite" child to take care of her. I've told him this as well as other family members who remind me "but she's your mother"

Once I "let go" of the guilt I felt for trying so hard to please her, to be a good daughter I felt "free"

I just wanted to tell you, your feelings matter, it's ok to be done with your mother. It's ok to "let her go"

Nicole
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I Believe!! Yay Jeweltone!!!💕😉🙏🏻
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Container,

Please go find a therapist so that you can get some real freedom from this h*ll.
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I am dealing with a 90 yr old bipolar, narcissistic personality disorder mother who has made my life miserable from when I was a child. She was controlling, mean, and sadistic. When I was a kid she would cut my hair off for no reason - I was left to try to cut it into some sort of style to be able to save face at school the next day. One day she got really angry with me over a minor incident and smashed my beloved bicycle with a hammer. I rode it around like that for years. I could go on and on. Why I still speak to her is beyond me. I am 64 and still miserable under her treatment. I have gone for short periods of time not speaking to her but then give in. I try to keep peace and harmony in the family. If I ever find out that I am going to die before she does I will completely cut her out of my life.
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The worst feeling is wanting to love your mum goes without any explanation so the most f***ed up head f*** is a mother taking that away from you.....and then acting all hurt and confused
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It's interesting...I come back to this thread from time to time just to seek comfort from folks dealing with the same things as are my wife and I. Mother-in-law will be 96 in April, and she's even meaner and more spiteful than when I first posted. She has fallen multiple times--twice in one week back around the first of the year--but refuses going to the doctor/hospital. She's in constant pain and takes Norco like they're M&M's, and I'm sure the side effects are contributing to what's already a mean, miserable person. Oh, and did I say she now talks to "voices?" Full-on conversations with NOBODY! At least no one that we can see. M-I-L now has TWO caregivers and she's just about to burn them BOTH out! They're both wonderful ladies, just trying to provide her with care service and she treats them like crap, too. Nothing like starting each day with dread, just wondering what the first words out of her mouth will be. Thankfully, we both find solace in our work--and away from her.

Not looking for answers...just wanted to stop by today and contribute to the thread. There IS strength in community!
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Omg, I'm so grateful to know that there are other people in the same boat as I am. I feel guilty constantly,  she makes me feel that way. I hate seeing her, or even talking to her on the phone. It's such a shame as she was always my best friend. Looking  back on my life now, she was and still is " the master manipulator"  My sisters and I have run round after her most of our adult lives. My Father used to take the brunt of her "Diva" attitude for years. And for years she made us think he was a horrible man. He was not!!!
I'm sure we were brainwashed to believe he was always at foult, we now know he was not, and that makes me so sad as I would love to tell him that, but it's too late.
My Mother is never happy, she seaks out drama and she plays hers doughters against each other. Luckily we know her traits so we are aware of it. It's gotten to a stage where we feel ill at the thought of going to visit. Numerous times I have started to drive towards her retirement village, which by the way she calls "the prison", but I cannot make my self go to visit her, as I know it's not going to end well, no matter what. I always leave there feeling sick and stressed. I'm not sure how to handle it any more.
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Sylvie, Kimber is right. If you can not get anywhere trying to go through "the system", then take her to a hospital emergency room (maybe during an anger attack) and tell them you are not able to care for her anymore due to your health. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES should you take her back home!! The burden of her placement is now on the hospital social worker. They WILL find a place for her in a facility that can better handle and help her. I know very well the guilt that will come from this but bite the bullet and do it before you loose YOUR mind! She will be better off because of it. Do not loose your sanity because of your mom's mental illness (Alzheimer's). If you'd be up to it, after a couple of weeks, you could visit. If that doesn't go well, (it didn't in my case), wait a bit more time for her to acclaimate to her new surroundings.
God bless you in this troubled time. I remember it well. But it will work out.
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Sylvie007- oh Sylvie poor you! I really feel for you. If you read my past comments you will see that I share your pain. Though my Mum doesn't actually live with me ( yet!) so your situation is far worse than mine.
I have worked in the health field for many years and I know my Mum hasn't got Dementia ( though strangers may put her behaviour down to it). Basically the negative traits of her personality have always been there but these days any glimmer of self appraisal is non existant. I am the enemy. Though I have been the only one really there for her she goes through periods of totally rejecting me and describes me as the devil incarnate! ( to casual acquaintances who think she is lovely!)
Other people on the outside do not understand your struggle. Only you know how it is potentially destroying you.
I think Kimber 166 has a valid suggestion. You need to get some separation from your Mum so beat on those doors. Make a bigger noise! I know it's totally draining and it seems like a brick wall in front of you but keep beating if you can.
You need to preserve your own sanity.
P.S. My Mum has totally cut me off ( again!) over the last 3 months. Ignoring all my attempts to contact/see her. Yet telling everyone else that I do nothing for her and my step father because I don't care ( and I am evil!).
As I said your situation is far worse but the thing we do share above everything else( despite trying hard not to) is the feelings of GUILT! It's always there in the background spoiling my life.
I wish you good luck and a smoother future.
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When your mom becomes violent - call 911. They will take her for observation. At that point you inform the hospital social worker that you can no longer care for her in your home. They will find a place for her.

you do NOT have to put up with violence. There is a way out.
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My mother was diagnosed with Dementia 2 years ago. She didn't get along with my partner so I had to find myself and apartment and move her in. I am the only one financially stable enough to care for her. I am only 49 and still need to work full time to afford benefits for my Rheumatoid Arthritis. She has been alone with me for a year today. Its been a constant fight with the services to have her in a home. I'm drained at work and I cant function anymore however taking some time off would ruin my mental health being around her. 24 hours a day and being at work is my space away from her. She had abandoned me at 14 and my anger for her still lingers. I had her out of my life for a long time until she lost her second husband that's when she walked back into my life. This dementia had made her nasty, cruel and I'm so sick of her being around. Sounds cruel and yes the guilt just kills me but after I've done all I could the only I do now is provide the necessities I feed her and make sure she's safe by having the neighbour and other caregivers to watch while I'm at work.. I stay away from her and lock myself in my room when she becomes violent. The services and the system is slow to putting her in a home. Its a constant battle. Its no wonder caregivers fall into a depression and begin to hate the parent they're taking care of . I've tried and tried to help her only to be verbally and mentally abused and unappreciated. she's just lucky she still has a roof over her head otherwise she would be homeless .. Cant do it anymore I've reached the end of my rope.
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I agree, don't move in with him. I'm afraid you'll be sorry and then have no way out.
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You want to help him because he is your father, but under the circumstances, moving in with him would most likely be a huge mistake you would regret and possibly never recover from. Sorry he is putting you in this position.
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My Father is 93 years old he lives alone in Florida he has refused home care help and refuses to move back close to his family so I can help him. He is very verbally emotionally and mentally abusive to me He also manipulative He has unreasonable demands for me to live with him when it is diffucult for me to visit for just one week and I still need to work to suppliment my income. He want his way or no way either I live there to help him or he is leaving everyone out of his will He refuses to move back here to an independent living so I can help him. I do not know why I even want to help him the way he treats me I do not know what to do anymore
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Oddly enough, there is a closed Facebook group page called Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers *you have to send a request to be allowed in* that has been enormously helpful to me in dealing with mine. Until I'd heard lots of other stories, I just didn't realize what my mother was all about. When I listened to other women's childhood (and recent) memories, I was like OMG, that is ME to a TEE! Anyway, I stayed in that group for a couple of months and then left. I wasn't looking to 'compare stories' or to continuously dwell in negativity and/or self-pity.......I just wanted to learn more about this personality disorder. It helped me an awful lot and I took away several good tips for taking care of MYSELF and not falling into the narc traps all the time.
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Golden23- thank you soooooo very much. I have read your posting several time. And I am so glad I found this site. You are so right about the manipulation of money and property. I have been in and out of the family will so much it is a standing joke. But a month ago my 11 yr old great niece asked me "what is a Will". Yes my Mom told her 11 yr old Greatgrandchild that she was out of her will. It breaks my heart that they are now experiencing this same behavior.

Thank you again for you advice and kind words. It is strange how much better it makes one feel to be able to discuss this issue with others who understand. Wishing you a vety merry christmas.
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lizzie and ineedyourhelp - many here have the same experience that you have of seeing your mother described by someone else, and being relieved that you are not the only one. There are lots of us here with a narc parent and some with narc sibs as well. It helps to look up on line how to deal with narcs They will suck the very life out of you if you let them. They play games with their money, their health, - anything that will get them what they want and they have no regard for others except in a using sense.

Ineedyourhelp - it will be more and more as she wants to be the center if your universe. You have to curtail that by setting boundaries as to how much you are prepared to do for her. Many narcs refuse outside help and play the "mother" card trying to force their child into servitude.

We all are entitled to our own lives. It has to be our choice how much we give up to another person. They use FOG - fear, obligation and guilt to manipulate people into doing what they want them to do. Read about detaching with love, read about children of narc mothers (or dads), read about FOG and codependency. Equip yourself. It is not an easy task as you have been trained from young to fill their needs and they know how to push your FOGGY buttons. Therapy helps a lot. I have gone to therapy off and on most of my adult life re my narc mother and sister.

Lizzie - yes, you have to start actually working out these things by changing yourself and your responses. Once a narc parent senses that they are losing control, it will likely get worse for a while, the games will escalate. Stand firm with your new decisions/ boundaries anyway.

And come back for support. We all need it. ((((((((hugs))))))) and Merry Christmas to you too.
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