My mom has been a miserable, nasty, and hateful person all her life. As a mother she has dominated every aspect of her children's life.

oldsoldier, there needs to be a special name for someone who is determined to be miserable and pull others into that deep hole with them. This is not your fault. You are going way beyond for her, but it still isn't enough. There is going to be something wrong with anything you do. You've known her for your lifetime, so you probably know this already. The best you can do is provide the help she needs and not let yourself get pulled into her pit of despair. I would definitely try to keep the family away from it and get her moved out as fast as possible. Please let us know how it is going. Many of us are going through the same thing that you are with a difficult parent. Being bright, cheery, and giving doesn't work. It is about how they feel inside themselves.

You can get her to a psychiatrist and see if antidepressant medication will make a difference.

Just understand, you can't be responsible for anyone else's happiness. You can't "fix" old age and you can't fix her negative outlook. Have you ever tried ignoring her tantrums? Her resentment can't do you harm if you don't let it.

I don't know where to turn to my mother had a stroke, she is 86. She wanted to be independent and stay at home with care, but now she says she's lonely with her carers going up twice a day, and either my sister or myself going up every day. Nothing or nobody seems to be any good. The carers, the hearing aid specialists, the doctors. I found a cottage next door for me, which added the benefit of independence for herself and also company and care from my sister an I. One day she said she was lonely, we are still waiting for her to move in next door, so I said move in with us until you move in. My partner and I do everything that we can for her, nothing is good enough, now she is behaving like a child and having tantrums everyday. She has always been a negative person, and always, said to me when I was younger "you won't get a job, or you can't do that if I come up with positives she has always come up with negatives. I also look after my Grandson during the holidays and the tantrums are being to get to us all. If I do not agree with her or she does not get her own way she says she wants to die and make us all feel depressed, then she says she want's to stay in her own house and does not want to stay next door, I have tried to understand and be sympathetic but I am running out as I feel that she resents me being healthy and wants me to feel what she feels. I can but there is nothing I can do, I want to live and smile and be happy, but I am beginning to resent her and dread every day.
What can I do?

I dont remember a time when i wasnt "taking care" of my mother - its been all my life. (In one way or another). Oh, i knew/know she was manipulating/abusing me by the time i was a teen, but SHE'S MOTHER! Yeah, right! 20 years ago her circumsatnces changed and she had to move. Yes, she' s here in my home. She's 98, she's as brutal as ever, walker and all! Since her arrival i lost my husband (2006), worse my youngest son (2011)! She never gives it a thought. I wouldnt feel guilty about not visiting, not having her here etc. My problem is that she would be MORE trouble to me if i put her in an ALF. Somehow! Some way! She's a sociopath-maybe even worse! BTW last doctor visit found her stronger than ever. He was concerned about my vitals though!!!! It's much more than a dilemma. I'll think of all going through this. Good luck!

Lost years indeed, depressed and weak from it all. I wish I had moved away.
But I didn't.

Someone recently said to me that this time in our lives, caring for an elderly parent are the 'lost years'. It is so true and such an apt description of how I feel about how my own life has disappeared now, caring for someone I don;t really want to care for.

My mom was always domineering. She bossed my dad around, and kept a tight leash on me until I rebelled, and moved away, as far as I could get. I didn't have anything to do with my parents for thirty years, then guilt set in. I wish I had never given in! I have had mom living with me since my dad passed away nine years ago. I have no life anymore. She has to know where I am, every minute of the day 24/7 if she doesn't she throws a fit. It's difficult even to work out in the backyard or the garage. She insists I check in every ten minutes! Then she has to know exactly what I am doing. If I say one word to her, all I hear repeated over and over all day is, " If he doesn't want me here, I'll just get up and go". I don't think she could get very far, but it does worry me that she might try to go wandering. My friends won't come and visit anymore, even her own friends have left her. She hasn't a kind word for anyone, unless confronted. Then she pretends that she is this sweet little old lady. Like when she goes to the doctor, but they have heard her, while she was in the waiting room. So they know.
Lately her memory has deteriorated to the point that she does not know what she did a half hour earlier. So she will ask for her lunch over and over just a half hour, after she had it. Then she gets nasty. " Ok then just forget about it, I'll just starve". I tell her she just ate, but she doesn't believe me. I'm not sure whether to just keep feeding her till she bursts or what. When dementia hits, it's a hard thing to deal with, trust me. It takes all we have. Hopefully it won't take everything out of us. I truly feel for you. We are in the same boat.

You are NOT alone. It's already hard to take on the role of caregiver, but even harder when the parent is Narcissistic (trust me... I KNOW). As kids, we get sucked into being "programmed" to believe that love isn't conditional (we must DO something for approval that will never come). Then, the inevitable watershed moment happens when we realize it SHOULDN'T be this way and we become angry and resentful.

GIVE YOURSELF GRACE!!!! You DO NOT have to suffer for mom's bad decisions. If that means that she spends a holiday in the facility, at least she's not alone.

Last year I finally took a stand and decided NOT to let the guilt take over. I spent Thanksgiving, Christmas AND New Year's with my DOG!!! BEST HOLIDAYS EVER.

Your mom will be fine, and so will you. One of two things will happen: She will realize that she is a product of her own disdain (HIGHLY unlikely) or you will become the bad gal again. Who cares? You're 60 and deserve peace and happiness. She'll be fine.

Benson, what a mess with your mom. I think when the dementia sets in, even slightly, and it's combined with the narcissistic qualities, it creates a REAL ugly situation for everyone. When they lose their memory, they forget which lies they told who, then claim they never told the lies to begin with! Yes, my mother always lied like a rug her whole life, but up until now she was able to keep those lies straight. It *sometimes* helps me to remind myself that this isn't really my mother, but someone who's now very old and has mental issues (or at least MORE mental issues than she had as a young woman :( ) I watched my cousin go through hell on earth with her mother (my mother's sister) who was even WORSE than my mother, and she lived to 97. I knew I'd be going down the same road, and I dreaded it, with very good reason. It's incredibly DIFFICULT to deal with these women's behaviors!! My God, I get totally exhausted every time I go over to see her, and all I do is sit there!! I call these women 'energy vampires', because they suck the strength clear OUT of a person!! They'll suck the SOUL out too, if we're not careful.

My mother complains about my kids not doing 'enough' for her also......and she treats my daughter particularly nasty. I tell her, if she has an issue with them, then to please take it up with THEM, as they are grown up's and I'm not responsible for them! I have a full time (very stressful) job, a house to take care of, a husband, and finances to deal with for TWO families. It irritates the heck of me that my mother doesn't have ONE ounce of empathy to be able to realize that all of HER complaining & carrying on only ADDS to my already FULL plate. But hey, wishing for things to be different isn't going to happen. So I have to figure out how to take care of ME, and put HER issues OUT of my mind! Here's hoping you can do the same.

Notadoormat.......I feel badly for my husband, b/c he has to hear all the venting I do, which involves him in the mess too. I don't cry much anymore, though, I've figured out how to disengage myself from *most* of her drama/complaining, and I've quit trying to fix what's broken. My mother has become SUPER tight-fisted herself, but since I am the one who manages the money, I spend HER money on the things I think SHE needs. She thinks I'm spending my own money, but in reality, I'm spending hers. Like taxes for instance. Before my dear Dad died, I would gather up all of their financial papers in a pile, drop them off at H & R Block, and have someone else do the taxes. I'd pay for the service out of their money, of course, without their knowledge. Ignorance can sometimes be bliss! :)

Anyway, my heart goes out to you for all you're going through, dear lady. I hope you can learn how to set down boundaries with your mother, or else she will continue to walk all over you. YOU make the rules, and if she doesn't like the new rules, well, she can add it to the list of everything else she doesn't like!! Enough is enough.

My mum is the same , very nasty and dominating , trying to tell people what to do , calling everyone every single day all the time shes tried turn my son against me , as she has done nothing but moan n shout n give me grief why hes not been to seen her , , when hes gone their today she said shes never said anything dont know what im talking about , telling people i lent money to pay for my car repairs , when thank god one of my friends was with me when i took my money out my bank just before i collected my car, then she accused my sister then her daughter in law then my son of taking her money , telling my son i want him to move out, she kept saying to me kick him out hes a waste of space like his father , i feel i dont want to go round there or be in her company any more shes making me feel ill shes nasty twisted and horrible and when i say why have yu said this n that , shes says i dont know what im doing n wish i would hurry up n die, shes wont go to the drs she started swearing at me when i asked her to go , shes my mum but i cannot stand being around her my sister n brother feel the same

Thank you, Lealonnie! That is exactly what we decided last night. We will get her what she needs, make sure she has good medical care, take care of the finances. But apart from that, we are not going to interact with her. No more social visits, no more dinners and lunches out, nothing.

And you are right about how much one person can cause so much havoc. When my husband gets home from work, he can take one look at me and know if I've talked to my mother. I am on the floor, in a puddle of tears. And often, when I leave her "independent living" I find myself in the elevator with other middle aged women on the verge of tears.

Babalou - she really can't afford a geriatric care manager or a financial consultant and she's also super-cheap. That's why I'm doing her taxes - just so much easier than the fight over hiring an accountant. It takes a whole day but it is the lesser of the two evils.

There have been two threads, neither of which i can find right now. One is from a woman who finally hired a geriatric care manager and financial consultant of some sort ( with her mother's funds) to arrange care. She sends her mother greeting cards, but that's it. The AL she's in reports that the mom is calmer than in the past, now that her daughter is no longer involved in the hands on caregiving.

The other, more recent thread is that of a woman who felt she needed to respond to her mom's every desire...a new dog, a trip, whatever mom asked for, the daughter was expected to provide. She finally entered therapy and is learning some self preservation skills.

You might find therapy useful. Wishing you well.

I have to add one more thing: I always say how it constantly AMAZES me how ONE person can create THIS much chaos! Right? I mean, my mother and my ex husband are only two people on this earth, but between them, they create more drama and bedlam than a THOUSAND others combined. Sigh.

You can still take care of her to ease your guilt feeling but leave her alone to stew in her own toxic juice. You know she is well cared for so only visit occasionally for a short period. She is going to bad mouth you anyway so ignore it, you don't have to be there to hear it.

Notadoormat: you can only do the bare minimum for her, and then go about YOUR life, right? I too am an only, and I do what has to be done, but nothing more. My NM told me last week that she apparently 'bored' me while I was there visiting. I don't know why she would say such a thing.......I mean, she rolled out a list of complaints longer than a yardstick, put down everyone she knows, gossiped mercilessly about her fellow 'friends' and residents, and then repeated herself about 100 times, since once is never enough. Bored? Nah. I'm just thrilled to death to be listening to the toxic sludge-fest all the time. That's when I decided I would NEVER visit alone again. This weekend my husband and kids won't be around, so I guess 'my arthritis will be in a bad flare-up', preventing me from going over to visit the torture chamber.

Sending you a hug today, and a prayer that you don't ruin YOUR life over HER issues.

Many times. But I'm an only. There is no one else. I could not live with myself if I didn't take care of her. I am not that kind of person.

Notadoormat, have you ever considered going "no contact"? I'm not sure why you feel obliged to manage her affairs. If you're around, she'll certainly still abuse you.

received this e-mail from her yesterday evening.

You denied me access to my money? this is not to be believed . I will
call them tomorrow and tell them that it is MY MONEY. I EARNED IT! YOU
did something that was not given by me. I Want this money back. ASAP!!!

Not the first time this has happened. She doesn't know how to use the computer. She screws it up every single time she touches it. A few weeks ago, she mis-entered her password several times and no surprise, she got locked out. Instead of calling me, she called the company and demanded that they tell her the password. Eventually she called me and screamed at me. I re-set her password and then dropped what i was doing on a workday and drove over there to explain it to her and give her the new password. We had a long conversation about it and other things and I left.

So when I got this nasty e-mail last night I jumped in the car and drove over there. She was still at dinner. We went up to her apartment and I got on her computer. I saw she had two small pieces of paper next to the laptop, both with the old password. I dug through the stack of papers she accumulates on her desk and sure enough, there was the paper I'd given her with the new password. I logged into her account, and sat and waited for her. When she came in I told her to go look at her computer and then come out and apologize to me. She refused. I screamed at her. She denied remembering that I had given her a new password although her convenient memory allowed her to remember specific parts of the conversation. I told her she was a miserable old bitch who wanted everyone else to be miserable too and we were not going to allow her to do that to us.

Then we had the re-run of "you won't tell me where my money is." I have written it down for her multiple times. I have told her multiple times. I have logged onto each account and showed her multiple times. Then "I own that house (meaning our house)" which is her interpretation of "I let you borrow part of the purchase price and you are paying me back at 4.25% even though a bank mortgage would have been 3.5% and it is legally secured by a recorded mortgage and you paid $2,000 in recording fees and attorneys fees for that." But she OWNS my house. Oh and then she says "you will never pay me back - I won't live long enough to get my money back." True. The whole point of this transaction was that she doesn't have enough income to live there. She needed additional income. We couldn't afford to give her the extra money she needed AND pay a mortgage. So we borrowed from her, give her interest at a much higher rate than she could get from a bank, and she has the income she needs. And we've explained that to her dozens of times.

And then she thinks we still HAVE the money. Stupid woman. How can she not understand that we used the money to buy the effing house?

I hate her. And I don't feel one ounce of guilt for hating her. I was able to avoid her most of my life, when my father was alive. I can't avoid her now because I am her only family. My sister (only sibling) died 40 yrs ago. I told her point blank - I am no longer going to behave as though I am your daughter. You treat total strangers better than you treat me. You have been treating me like shit for years. No more. I am not your doormat anymore. You can't take your anger at the world out on me. I am now going to be the "unpaid help." I will do your banking, taxes, get your groceries, or whatever else you need. I will make sure you have good medical care. And that's it. I will do those things and then leave. No socializing, no dinners out, no lunches, no phone calls to chat (not that I ever have anything to say to her anyway).

My husband and I have a wonderful life and I am not going to allow her to become a cancer that destroys our lives.

No response necessary. I just needed to vent. Thanks for listening.

Mom may not have been capable of making the calls and signing the papers necessary to either disinherit you OR relieve you of executor or POA duty. Being disinherited and being relieved of executor duties are two separate things. Her treatment of you may have been early dementia with impaired judgment and you might want to be guardian to see that other wishes formulated when she was more of sound mind are carried out. Think back to the person she was before all this started happening. "Coherent" is relative. Unless you feel that the state will do a better job than you can as guardian, you might want to consider it. It would be totally understandable if not, especially if your relationship had always been totally disagreeable. You do not even necessarily have to visit her much if at all to be her guardian, just get reports second hand from staff, maybe look in at the facility every now and then. She can no longer make decisions for herself at this point, either practically or legally. Unless someone else was POA during those years you were not allowed to help her, and took care of things for her, her finances are probably a disaster area too. If so, don't hesitate to get an elder law consultation to help sort things out.

No comment on how advisable it is to be the physician of record for a family member! Actually, not generally recommended and often not permissible (depends on the state.) But that's water under the bridge now. Sorry it all went this way for you and mom, and hope there is someone who still cares about her that she might have some positive interaction with.

I need any advice you caregivers can give me... I am an only child and my Dad is gone. My Mom is 98 and several years ago, she and I had a parting of the ways as she did not want any help from me in spite of the fact I had been her physician for 20 years. She said that she intended to disinherit me and we stopped communicating two years ago. I have just been notified by the county Guardianship Investigator that my Mom is now in a facility and she is significantly demented and very unfriendly to everyone. I had been the executor of her estate prior to our falling out and do not know what my present status is. I never received notification that I have been disinherited, however, she, when she is coherent repeats that over and over when my name is mentioned. I don't see why I should be a guardian for her if she has disinherited me. If she hasn't, I would certainly assume that responsibility as the executor of the estate. I don't know what to do, has anyone been in this situation? Thanks for any advice you can provide.

Julie, if you are getting refusals from her to get help, get an eldercare attorney. I am not clear why your 911 call did not result in her being brought to an ER for suspected delirium; next time make sure to state she is violent and a danger to you and your son and you are looking for geropsych facility. No guilt. You don't deserve to be attacked.

You r not alone ...my story is similair...Not ony is my mother exactly like your's...she is the guilt master. She did ot raise me, my grandma did...now she is even getting violent. Yesterday I had to call 911 because she attacked me like a wild animal. My son lives here, as well and it hurts me that he sees this.he is stuck between mom n grandma...he is 24 but I have always told him the truth about my loveless family.. now he sees his true grandma and i can't cope with this.. We have a house we each paid 50/ 50 for and so it is on the deed as well...someone please tell me how ..if at all I can get her out so she no longer continues the horrific cycle!
. ...

Thank you all for your feedback. It seems we are all unfortunately on the same page here, dealing with similar painful situations. It gives me strength knowing you are out there and it is encouraging to know that such kind, thoughtful and empathetic people can be the offspring of narc BPDs. After all, we are all somewhat damaged from our backgrounds. Hopefully we can use our experience and knowledge to become better people instead of falling into the awful destructive pattern of behavior that has hurt us all so deeply. A big hug to you all, brothers and sisters!

I have a similar situation with my mother, unfortunately, and to add insult to injury, I'm an only child. Mom's judgmental and ugly behavior is greatly magnified now that she's a widow with dementia and hearing loss. It's quite unbearable to be around her, in fact. I have a few rules in place which I will share in hopes it may help you. I NEVER go to see her at the ALF alone. She uses me as a sounding board but tones it down in front of my husband, the outsider. He is my buffer. Secondly, I limit my calls and visits with her......I make the rules, and stay only until I start grinding my teeth. Then it's time to vamoose. On the phone, same thing. Limited contact is the only way to preserve our sanity!
When I have her over my house for a holiday, the visit is limited in duration as well. This way, I never have to raise my voice or have an argument with her, and that reduces the guilt tremendously. I do the best I can, and it's irrelevant that it's never good enough.

The whole relationship is a miserable mess, but nowadays, I'm starting to focus on taking care of ME and letting the caregivers take care of HER. By the way, they all think the world of her because they dont get to see the ugliness and back stabbing. She's been treating my daughter quite badly lately too, and I've advised her to keep the visits and calls to a minimum.

Good luck

I have a narcissistic mother; she passed at the end of January. She had a good side however (though I could not really know when it was authentic). She was mentally ill but on meds and functional; also very sharp of mind. She was a complete misanthrope in a private discussion, but she charmed acquaintances and strangers. Anyhow, I feel for all of you and I especially was moved by Joeabroad's story. There are reasons I kept helping my mother in spite of her depending on me the most and liking me the least of her children. One reason was to give back to someone who did work hard to keep me in food and shelter when I was a child. Another reason is that she used her manipulative skills to trigger early childhood programming to be passive around her and meet her expectations to avoid disapproval. Sometimes awareness is not enough to not fall into old, toxic patterns. My mother would shift realities to readjust the relationship to her needs, pretending she had not done or said things that gave away her complete alienation from everybody and the hostility that comes with that. That did not come from dementia (she did not have that); I think it really is the personality disorder. It was very confusing and damaging for me. My comment to Joe is that in my case, trying to be REAL with her and letting her know what she had done and how it was hurtful did not work for me. She would just become indignant, deny her behavior and spin it so it seemed I was bullying her in some way. Occasionally I would be totally honest with her and I have to say it would feel empowering at the time, but I found it worked for me better to strategize for my own mental safety and spend a minimum of time negotiating anything or exposing myself by admitting any feelings at all. She does sound potentially dangerous, if not crazymaking and I worry about the niece.

joe, mentally ill parents are confusing. They can seem so normal, but there are things like this that happen. I have a feeling that your mother could have been upset that sister and niece were out cruising. Maybe she wanted everyone together with her. This is something that my mother always wants. She wants all her kids and grandkids to be with her on holidays. She can't understand that they have other commitments, so it makes her angry.

I agree with cmag that a letter wouldn't be much point. You can write it to get out the feelings, then tear it up or burn it when you're ready.

I feel bad for your niece. She must be saint. I'm glad she can get away from it to go to work. And I'm glad the family is involved so the niece can get away some time. You're in a situation, I know. Your mother is difficult, but your niece needs to be able to get away sometimes. Things are difficult to sort through when a parent has a difficult personality. I would keep going as normal, but get a hotel room for the wife and as a getaway place. (Sounds expensive, though!)

Don't be hooked by the threat to dis-inherit you. She just might, but that should not compel you to stay connected. She's made her bed. So let her sleep in it.

Joeabroad, why do you even come home to such a person and expose your wife to her? She's mentally sick with a personality disorder that you did not cause, you can't control and you can't fix. Writing even a calm letter will likely not get her attention or change her. Writing it but not mailing it and seeing a therapist would do you more good. The only thing you can do is put yourself and your marriage on a healthy path and set boundaries with your mother with concrete consequences.

I would likely tell her, "you physically assaulted my wife and that is the last straw, good bye." What does your wife want to do? I doubt she even wanted to be there.

Your mom physically assaulting her tells me that she's a possible danger to others. This needs to be reported.

I posted once before about my 88 yr old mother who is a narcissistic BPD. After my father died a year ago she has worsened considerably, lashing out at anyone close to her, while remaining sweet as sugar to strangers and neighbors. She is in California and I live in Europe and come to visit her two or three times a year, staying several weeks each time (average total of 8 weeks per year, 24/7) even though I still work full time and have a family, so you can imagine my level of commitment here. She is not alone; my sister (who lives about 1000 miles away) comes out about once every month while her daughter, my niece, actually lives at the house. Predictably, my mother doesn't think we are doing enough for her. Mind you, she is 100% mobile and capable of doing just about everything for herself except driving. My niece is unfairly criticized for leaving her alone at the house when she goes to work; My (retired) sister is unfairly criticized for any vacation she might take with her husband and friends as well as spending time with her own grandchildren. And she reserves her worst criticism for me. If she finds out I have been spending a few days with my adult children or my grandchildren instead of flying over the ocean to be with her, she goes ballistic. Recently she has become convinced that my wife is to blame for me not spending more time with her (not true), so her wrath has extended to her and her family. Her comments have become increasingly inusulting and hurtful and everything came to a head recently when I asked her to stop. She emphatically said she didn't want to stop and continued with even more insulting abrasive remarks. I again asked her to please stop. She wouldn't. Then I yelled at her to STOP!!

All hell broke loose. The barrage of profanity and insults going back to the moment I was born would have made Betty Davis blush. It was entirely one-sided. I never recipricated with criticism of my own although maybe I should have. I just let her go on and on for about a half hour, during which she became increasingly profane and violent, even physically assaulting my wife who stood by silently and innocently. Then she ceremoniously threw us out of HER house, promising to dis-inherit me on my way out, adding that she never, ever wanted to hear from me again. Ever!

Well, that was awkward for many reasons. We had just arrived from the other side of the planet and my sister and niece had just left on a 7-day cruise. The next day, she talked with my niece on the phone and, having completely re-constructed the episode in her mind, wondered where I was and why I wasn't there taking care of her as I had promised. In the end my wife and I remained in the area while staying elsewhere. I looked in every day, avoiding any flying objects and insults, to make sure she was OK and had food, etc. until my sister returned. Then we left.

You might think there is more to this story, but there really isn't. My mother is simply a horrible, paranoid narcisist. She is not senile and she is in rather good health so this situation will be with us for a long time to come. There is no way out. She can't put the toothpaste back in the tube and I can't do more than I already do. Nor can anyone else. Since I can't (nobody can) have a normal conversation with her about our relationship, I am thinking of writing her a letter to explain how I feel, without resorting to insults or anything hurtful. She might not read it, probably would just ignore it or throw it away. But at least I could get some things off my chest. Maybe my last chance ever.