It's been a hard week....

Paul,

What does your dad say about them not coming out due to his crying wolf? Does he realize what he has done or is he completely oblivious to it? That puts him in a tough spot if he had a real emergency.

NeedHelp....

Well, last time he called the GP he asked them to come out AGAIN. Bear in mind he lives literally 400 yards from the surgery.

I've told him time and time again just get a cab it'll be a lot easier. BUT like a lot of his generation his attitude is "I paid my taxes all my life". Of course NHS is free in the UK (but I'm sure I read somewhere that 1 home visit takes up the time of 8 surgery consults so its not great).

Anyway, last time, one of the senior partners called him back, asked him a few questions, and basically said, that, like they told him last time, there was nothing more they could do and he did not need a visit. He was not happy but is oblivious to the fact that hes abused the system.

Ambulances. First few times they took him to hospital. Checked him over - sent him home within hours. Then they sent a paramedic on his own. Last one pretty much said "you do not need to go to hospital". Last time they phoned him then sent an ambulance 15 hours later (the next day)..... Yes hes on a list I think.

District Nurse. For housebound patients only (not lazy ones who can't be bothered) He need his blood checked for warfarin. My own wife is a DN and says he really should not be entitled to a home visit. Does Dad care? Nope.

Several times hes moaned to the DN that they didn't get here when he wanted and now he can't go out for lunch with his friends. I've told him, you cant specify a time (I know how busy my wife is!) and you can;t admit to going out because they'll take you off the list. Hes been taken off the list about FIVE times. BUT, each time the Doctors surgery put him back on when he moans hes too ill....

Problem is he won't listen to me. He won't do anything for himself if he can scam someone into doing it for him. Also, no-one in the medical profession is strict enough to tell him to quit what hes doing. I'v given up now....

If I get a "chest pain" call I don't rush over. I tell him to call 999. I'm at least 30 mins away anyway. He never does call them and suddenly hes fine.

As I've said many times, and its quite funny to be honest, I'm going to find him dead in his chair one day and everyone is going to say "Oops he was ill this time".

paul: That's true about the EMS keeping records on faux emergency 9-1-1 calls. They then turn them over to the Police Dept. if they detect a pattern of non emergent calls. That takes away from true medical emergencies and he's lucky he hasn't gotten in trouble for it,

Llama - its is very lax here in the UK. I dont think people get in trouble for making emergency calls when they think they're ill. Thats the problem.

I remember watching TV programme about ambulance in london. Some woman had made like 5 calls a day for months and months. She had mental issues. But they knew all about her.

Of course, if you deliberately make calls for hoax purposes you will get in trouble.

Another problem is its not that joined up. Both ambulance service and GP have had issues with him but I'll bet no-one has spoken to the other. In fact, that one time senior partner at GP told him no, a few weeks later he got a different GP (same practice) to come out and give him antibiotics (nothing wrong).

My own wife is a District Nurse. She said its rife GPs come out, give elderly patients anti-biotics half the time to keep them happy and stop them moaning. Of course, people dont think of the cost because its all free to them (but certainly not free for the NHS which everyones taxes pay for).

My sister has called the Ambos about 9 times in last 12 months - as she falls & can't get up.

Her address & name are known & notes on file as a frequent faller - some flag must have popped up as Ambulance service rep called her NOK to strongly suggest she have a medical checkup & OT falls assessment done.

2 X visits ago the Ambos told her non-emergency vehicles would be dispatched to her in future. So there must be a 2nd tier service to handle all the "I'm so sick... " peoole.

She's currently not concerned. After lying on the cold floor for an extended time in winter she might!

Paul,

Your dad definitely likes things his way! I wonder if it’s boredom or just attention seeking behavior. Possibly manipulative behavior just to see if he can get others to comply. Interesting...

Paul - there's a great thread about boundaries that is recently created. The posts on that thread are from members who have problematic, narcissistic parents like your dad. I think you will be able to relate. Here's the link.

https://www.agingcare.com/discussions/boundaries-are-about-you-not-them-456081.htm?orderby=recent

Paul.

You airily say that the second GP came out to visit your father and px'd antibiotics (nothing wrong).

Oh really? What, you examined him yourself and with your superior medical knowledge and lab facilities you conclude there was no justification for the px, do you? If not, how the beep do you know there was nothing wrong?

Antibiotics are overprescribed, and there are patients who just will not believe that in their case they are pointless no matter how carefully it's explained to them, this is true. But being a whiney discontented grumpy old beggar does not prevent you from getting bronchitis, for example, quite honestly your father could have bubonic plague and you and your wife would still assume he's attention-seeking, and the correct diagnosis for that is burnout.

Lead, follow, or get out the way.

Llama,

My neighbors young son was playing with the phone one day. He was about two years old. He accidentally called 911. My neighbor tried to cancel the call. They wouldn’t let her. She was so embarrassed. I wonder how often stuff like that happens.

CM - Of course.

I, for one though, am no longer willing to run to him every time he tells me he is ill. I would be there for hours every single day. Usually, like I said the GP has now stopped doing so (which is why I was surprised last time they gave in). I would say 9 out of the last 10 times now they have refused to visit. Should they too be castigated for this? After all, he "could" have been ill those other 9 times too?

You're right he might have bubonic plague one day and I won't believe him. What do you suggest? The other 364 days of the year I continue to run over when theres nothing wrong?

Alas, your attitude is typical of a lot of my family. They're like this too. "Poor old man" whos been ill. Usually until he ropes them in too and it all changes.

I had a choice a year or two ago. OK I'm not doing brilliantly that's the problem. BUT it came down to continue to run whenever Dad wanted and lose my marriage and kids or wake up and see whats going on. I'm trying to choose the 2nd option.

I'll never let dad down with things he NEEDS. Unfortunately, his WANTS were taking over my life.

NeedHelp - To be honest a lot of the time he doesn't really need what hes asking for.

Its weird. I know he gets anxious and I try to make allowances. BUT he seems to like it when people do things for him. Thats what makes his happy.

I sort of get it but, of course, its not sustainable for me or for most people.... Yes I will do things for him but I wont continually perform tasks just to prove I'm "there for him." I've never let him down in the past but he seems to constantly need me to prove it.

Beatty - yes thats what they told Dad last time. I think hes called them a lot more than 10-15 times in the last 12 months.

To be fair each time, hes not been lying on the floor or anything like that. Hes usually sitting there in the chair watching TV.

He was most upset that they came 15 hours later last time. I suppose, as per my other post, it upsets him that the service wont prove to him that they;'ll come any more. Same with hospital now - even if he insists they began to refuse to admit him. I was getting to be a waste of time for everyone.

Unfortunately, twice now, after hes disagreed with both GPs and paramedics who've said he DOES NOT need to be admitted, hes got himself admitted a day or two later because hes "fallen and banged his head". Both times hospital staff have advised me it was very likely self inflicted alas.

Paul,

Some elderly people simply feel entitled. They seriously feel their children owe them. They seem to forget that their children have busy lives of their own.

NH - yeh I'm sure he doesn't believe me sometimes. Thinks I'm sitting at home doing nothing. Also, part of his idea that young children do as they're told. If they've got to miss something because the parents have something to do then thats how it works.

We've had that argument many times. "No Dad I can't visit Saturday am because Im taking daughter to gymnastics class". I always get "well she'll have to miss it then" or "whats you're wife doing then?". Answer from me is NO.

Sure he thinks the man goes to work, comes home puts his slippers on, gets his pipe out, while the wife, cooks food and looks after the kids.

Hes been divorced twice. I can't believe two women would marry him in the first place. (But then my own dear mother - not seen much in 50 years - appears to be not much of a role model)

Paul, when I read MORE than 10-15 ambo calls (gosh!) I thought he'll be that patient 'falling' out of their chair in the hospital to gain nurses attention. Sounds like he's only a shuffly step away...

And STILL demanding his visits take precedence over your whole family, your planned activities, your life. I did have some sympathy for him... getting old is tough no doubt but... I really do think he has lost empathy (or never had it??).

Do whatever you have to do to survive this journey & keep your marriage. You are making great progress but I fear the road is long.

Need help: you got it.
Some elderly people get entitled. Well not just elderly either. Steel boundaries needed for them!

Paul,

You’re a good husband and father who is doing it the right way in spite of the example that he showed you. Be proud of that accomplishment.

Only strong people break cycles. Give yourself credit for that. I bet your wife and children give you credit for being dedicated to your family.

"He accidentally called 911. My neighbor tried to cancel the call. They wouldn’t let her. She was so embarrassed. I wonder how often stuff like that happens."

Probably a lot more than any of us realize!

When my daughter was about 12 or 14, she had a friend over and I went to a soccer board meeting. When I got home, I purposely shut the door loudly, to let them know I was home. Her room was upstairs on the other end of the house. When I got up there, the two were looking at me like deer in the headlights. Ok, what's up? What I wasn't aware of is her friend was on the phone with her dad and she said someone's in the house. Didn't he call the police! I also tried to call and get them to skip it, but they can't. Once the call is placed, they have to check it.

So, I had my license out and met them at the door. TWO police, one shining his light in the backyard while I am explaining it's MY house and it was ME coming in. Thankfully they didn't stay long.

The story about that professor Gates in Cambridge who came home from vaca and didn't have his keys, trying to get in his house, someone called the police thinking maybe someone was breaking in. He made a HUGE stink about it - those in the US might recall "Beer Gate", where Obama had the officer and Gates come to the White House for calming everything (of course he stuck his two cents in before all the details came out, not helping anything! Run the country, not little nit-picky stuff in someone's yard!)

It annoyed me to no end, because all the jerk had to do was show his license instead of playing the race card.` He also should understand what my story and yours says - when called, the police have to respond! He is an educated man, he should know better!!! On the flip side, if it really WAS someone breaking in and the police didn't go, there would be hell to pay as well!!! Sometimes there is no way to keep people happy.

"Oh really? What, you examined him yourself and with your superior medical knowledge and lab facilities you conclude there was no justification for the px, do you? If not, how the beep do you know there was nothing wrong?"

Although it was a GP who went and gave him Rx, how the BEEP did HE know dad needed it? Does he have a portable lab he brings with him? Sounds more like they just give an Rx to shut them up. Sure, he might hear bad noises in the chest, but bronchitis can be either viral or bacterial and without actually testing, THEY DON'T KNOW EITHER! If it is viral, antibiotics do nothing (except mess things up in your gut, or become useless/resistant later!) He could just have a chest cold - again, viral, so it is WRONG and a WASTE to give out antibiotics like candy on Halloween.

So, personally I would consider the same thing Paul did. Something to soothe the old bugger and shut him up.

"Sure he thinks the man goes to work, comes home puts his slippers on, gets his pipe out, while the wife, cooks food and looks after the kids."

>GASP<

You mean it DOESN'T work like this???? :-D :-D :-D

(forgot to add he gets the newspaper to sit and read while waiting to be served!)

paul: Wow. Here in the U,S., the police dept would be called after the get the gist of a person calling 9-1-1 multi fake times. It takes away from true emergencies.

Need: Even if it was a youngster, the police dept takes it seriously because the woman who tried to cancel the call, but the EMS is already enroute, e.g. wages for EMS personnel, gas and time is all taken away from true medical emergencies.

Paul, your mother was actually a great role model of drawing a boundary between herself and a grasping husband. Pity about the kids – but then you don’t know the full story there. There are plenty of blokes who have tried blackmailing the wife over child custody (and are sometimes surprised to get their bluff called), and another lot where the next cab on the wife rank is presented with bloke and kids as a job lot package. In my experience (15 years on the singles scene), blokes are as much or more likely to have the next warm bed waiting as women are. I still reckon that you might learn useful things if you track your mother down, and I can’t see what you’ve got to lose.

disgustedtoo - Well exactly. This was a month or so after the senior partner at the GPs had called him to tell him no more visits. I think this one slipped through the net.

Like I said, my wife is a District Nurse - she says it happens all the time. If GP says no, patient moans, patients family start moaning that "nothing is being done". If ABs are prescribed, even if they do nothing, GP is seen to be doing "something".

Not right but there we go.

Llama - yeh but I guess he "thinks" hes ill rather than doing it for fun.... Yet even when they tell him to stop he doesnt.

Beatty - of course getting ill is tough. I'd do anything for my Dad that he NEEDs.

But health professionals have told him to quit it. He doesnt take his meds that the GP gives him. What can I do?

I can't run every time because I would be there every day pretty much.

Oh hes also got a "lifeline" alert button. They've also asked in a nice way if theres a problem......

Margaret - Do you know I've often wondered. BTW - we lives in Edmonton, Canada - mother stayed, Dad brought us home to Wales.

I'm pretty sure mother made some bad decisions at the time, but I dont think Dad is the saint hes made himself out to be sometimes. I think there are two sides to this. I do wonder if he became so unbearable she had no choice.

I've always been tempted to find out to be honest. She still lives in Canada but her sister lives not 2 miles from Dad. (used to see a lot of her when I was younger).

Paul, an easy way to make a first approach to your mother would be through her sister. Why not? Your mother may feel even worse than you do about the break that happened, and may not feel that she has the right to contact you. Be kind.

Paul,

I agree with Margaret. Why not find out? Like you say, there are two sides.

Best wishes and I understand no matter what you decide.

paul: Oh, wow! So they do tell him to stop. I can understand that some elders get anxiety ridden. Hopefully, they'll soon catch onto his faux antics, but then what if one of these times, it is a true medical emergency? Oh, dear ...

"I guess he "thinks" hes ill rather than doing it for fun.... Yet even when they tell him to stop he doesnt."

I wouldn't think he is doing this for "fun", and I don't think he thinks he is ill, BUT it IS his way to get attention, and primarily from YOU. He doesn't want THEIR attention, he wants YOURS. Going through them is to get justification for what he does to you.

If he can't get you to do something HE wants (or you are going away for a bit or a vaca), suddenly he's ill... It's right there in the second sentence of your original post! No reaction or jumping to action from you, he calls the docs, gets Rx or admitted or what have you, and then feels justified so he can now say 'See, I was really ill.' The only possible "fun" is if/when he gets his way, but maybe more like getting satisfied than any actual fun.

The bad part of this is, as others noted, and cry wolf has come up in our discussions, there may come a time when he really IS ill and no one will believe him or do anything. He is setting himself up big time. He NEEDS to have someone, preferably the doctors, tell him this. He NEEDS to understand this, but I don't think he will. He certainly isn't going to listen to you or heed anything you say, he likely won't listen to them either (hasn't so far.) So, if/when the REAL medical crisis comes, no one is going to listen... Additionally, as you have pointed out multiple times, if he TRULY needs medical attention, what can you do from 30+ minutes away, with no medical degree??? He NEEDS to stop calling them needlessly because if/when that time comes, they won't, but that isn't likely to happen. IF his call doesn't slip through the cracks again, perhaps he'll get a clue, but I wouldn't hold my breath!

The only solution in his mind is you have to be there to do his bidding when he demands it and that isn't going to work. He refuses to move to a nice place. He refuses to work on a workable schedule with you. He refuses to make reasonable requests for help/visits. He continues to throw your family to the bottom of the dung heap. It's all just mememememe - sure, he might be a little lonely, but he DOES get out, with his "mates" even, he CAN get around in his own place, he CAN get out to shops, etc, so honestly, at this point I can't see why ANYONE would think you need to jump and ask how high when he makes demands.

You know your own schedule. Work around that and set aside a day/time or two per month to do the errands or visits YOU feel okay doing. If something comes up for you, and you can't make it (emergencies do happen, even if he doesn't acknowledge any one else's emergencies as valid), squeeze that promised time in somewhere to make up for the missed slot. If it's just a visit, I wouldn't even waste time making plans for a restaurant or cricket match. Just go visit and leave at the time you set for yourself. He complains about everything you have set up or try to pay for, so don't bother.

Me personally, if that was my parent, I would order the groceries and have them delivered. Mainly non-perishables initially, because he is being such a toad about it and might leave them out there. If he wants to leave the delivery outside on the step, so be it. I would FILL my dance card for weeks, maybe even months, and say there's no time (no reasons, no excuses, no ammo), so this is it. You want to eat, there it is. If you don't take it in, someone will steal it or some animal will get into it. I can be stubborn too. :-D I also don't like being taken advantage of. I do like helping others, even non-family, but when the helping hand is dragged in like this, nope. Done. Line. In. The. Sand. I am DONE. Doesn't even matter if they don't "get it", this is it. I will do this or that, nothing else, no discussion or you get nothing!