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Paul, does your Dad still have access to grocery deliveries? If so, suggest he set that up now. Or is your brother taking that on? (as he lives closer).

I strongly suggested to my family they start deliveries to prepare if things got tough as it would increase my stress to be running around after three housholds. My Dad immediately got it & moved to delivery - although never even got his first order due to hoarder behaviour/system overload. All cancelled until further notice.

My sister will not consider going at 'community hour' for elders & disabled (as too early), cannot shop herself & as far as I know has not arranged her carers to shop for her in person instead. Things will run out & she has no way to plan or problem solve. These are her cognitive deficits & proof to me she should NOT be living alone. I always thought there would be a crises that set the wheels in motion... had no idea it would look like this. Like the whole world gone mad! Nevertheless, I am working behind the scenes to get done what must be done.

Which is to throw her in a respite or nursing home place asap. Miraculously one is accepting people but she wants some thinking time..

My deadline is tomorrow. If she declines - the next fall will trigger ambulance & mental health act intervention.

Have a plan ready for your stubborn Dad if required. Even if it is - Brother, you take Dad as you are closer & don't have kids - it's only common sense.
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Paul,

My father in law became like that too. He basically became very selfish and was very cruel to me. I did as your wife. For my own sanity I had to cut him out of my life.

He will never see what he did. Never apologize to my husband or me. Never, ever, ever! We have accepted it and no longer have a relationship with him. It was too many things for too long.

I am not trying to tell you what to do. Or your wife. And I think we all know that no one can tell your dad or my father in law what to do. My father in law is 96! If he hasn’t changed by now, forget it, right? We stopped trying years ago.

Anyway...my point is my father in law will never think that he was wrong or offensive in any way. They either can’t or won’t admit it. Actually, I just don’t care anymore. After 30 years who cares? He has been awful for that long, but we cut him out of our lives a long time ago. He tried to reconnect with my husband once but it was too late. Sad, but my husband doesn’t want to pull the scab off the wound. He dealt with it in his head and heart and has chosen to live in peace without him.

I would like to tell you that I hope it works out for you and your dad but I don’t think his core personality will change. I wish it would but I doubt it will.
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Visited Dad this weekend. I tried to say look keep the other side of the room - in one ear and out the other.

I bought him TONS of food. His freezer is full now. Hes still moaning now!!! Even though I flipping paid for it all......

Honestly, get it into your head its serious.....

Of course, hes playing the "oh I'm so down now because I'm stuck in, you'll have to visit more". No Dad that is not sensible.

Honestly, its so awful that hes even using this to play games.

My wife is having her knee op next week. If it goes ahead who knows. She did toy with cancelling it. She wants to one way or another help out somehow (shes a nurse remember) even if she can just do it sitting down. We'll see after the op or not.

And with the kids off, I'm working from home at the moment (no work no pay) its going to be busy few weeks for us. Dad obviously doesnt care - as usual its me me me.
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NeedHelp - yeh exactly. I have no problem with my wifes decision AT ALL.

Hes not going to change, and to be honest, I dont think he cares if he upsets people. He thinks he can do what he wants.

My attitude at the moment is, no I'm not letting you have you're own way any more. Hes still my Dad and I dont want harm to come to him.

I've worked out our relationship is pretty much gone forever. Thats sad but I gave it plenty of chances for years..... Im determined now to get on with my own life and not let him interfere, also, big thing, don't let him make me annoyed.

He can moan and moan all he wants but I'm ignoring him now.
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Paul I would be quite surprised if your wife's knee op went ahead.

I've been looking out of the window across our little communal garden this morning. There's been a steady trickle of people turning up with bouquets and gift bags for Mothering Sunday, and leaving them on my neighbours' doorsteps.

So I can't believe that you went to visit your Dad - why did you? Social distancing means staying away from people if you don't have to be in the same room as them. Why didn't you just put the shopping down outside his door?
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You visited, he has food. Done.

I am ensuring my 'needies' have food. By txt, no visits. If they run out of supplies I intend to do a driveby delivery. Dump on the porch only.

My folks heard our PM say avoid non-emergency travel & are processing this new situation. Dad understands. Not sure about Mum..

My sister is going into care Friday. She did NOT understand the need. Nevermind, it will happen.

Paul, it is unfortunate if your Dad doesn't understand the situation - you do & you have met his need for food. The *want* of a visit can go *insert rude word here*.
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I understand how you feel, Paul. You have been kind and generous to him.

I don’t blame you for feeling as you do. You have given your dad numerous chances.

I hope your wife will be able to get her knee surgery as soon as she can and starts to feel better.

Take care, Paul.
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paul: You are a saint of a man, really - for stocking your dad up with TONS of food. He should keep quiet and be happy. Since most grocery chains are out of food here, my daughter found this small business owner who is the daughter of a friend of our's. They deliver and I may use it! They sell potatoes the size of a soccer ball. Very fresh looking. So who would have thought that because of COVID-19, the small business owner would be the hero?!

Good luck to your wife if she does get her surgery. :)
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CM - spoke to them today - its on. It was a toss up for her whether to cancel but then she'd be extended period semi-fit. Best to get it sorted now.
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llama - lets just say after walking around the supermarket, doing my best to get what I can, buying stuff he need to ensure he has food, I was a little annoyed to be told "you've spent too much theres no need"

He usually pays me - he didnt this time. I think I'm being punished for spending too much lol.

Wife having op wednesday. Hes had it now. Hes gonna have to understand....
OK I shouldn't visit anyway really, but with being non-mobile Im not planning to leave her alone in the house to struggle with a 6 year old just to meet his "wants"
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I'm surprised the operation wasn't cancelled without the option. What with social distancing, and the need for every possible bed and member of staff to be available, as of now.

What's she having done, an arthroscopy or something? If it's an in-out job, then yes I agree she might just as well combine recuperation with quarantine and get them out of the way together. Wish her fighting fit very soon, anyway.

Unless you have really begun to hate your father, please stay away from him. Your household contains a front line health worker and children. You are a risk to him. So just sit back and let him enjoy the grievance - he will be fine, and you know he will be fine.
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paul: I think I have a take on your dad. So he always has to be right. You say - "Here's 50 bars of gold." Him - "But I wished you gave me 50 bars of silver." You say - "Your stock value has skyrocketed." Him - "Drat, now when I take a dividend, good gosh - I will be worried about the income tax filing." Just an example. And please - no insulting meant.

Prayers for a successful surgery for your wife. Prayers to you. 💞
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At work I call those people 'golden spoon' people. Not quite *I'm right* but either control freaks or just love to hear their own voice.

"I'd like a cup of tea". Sure, there you are. Then it starts: I prefer a different brand teabag. Not too full! Not too strong! Put milk in it. Not too much! It's still too hot. The cup is too big/small/hard to hold. Now it's cold.

So I make their half size, weak, drop of milk tea as they request. "What's this? You call this a cup of tea!" So you make them a normal cup of tea & walk off quickly. "Excuse me, EXCUSE me, is this TEA? I asked for tea". Sigh.

It could be the perfect cup of tea with a golden teaspoon & they still complain. Just want to have something to say.

Be prepared. Do not be his tea lady 😁
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Beatty: Spot on! Walk away quickly. Reminds me a conversation about a teapot and a teakettle. Two different things. My mother talked and talked about it.
Until my husband said "that is enough. Who cares WHAT it is called."
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Paul - I hope everything will go smoothly for your wife's operation as well as a speedy recovery.

I agree. Your wife needs you. Your dad doesn't.
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Paul, did your wife's op go ahead? Hope so.

All non-emergency elective surgery posponed from midnight UFN is the latest news where I live.
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CM - shes having it done today. Its private and this is the last week they are doing.

Partial knee replacement. To be honest, since she did the other knee (doesnt need an op just yet but there is damage to that) shes no good to do anything until it gets sorted.
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Yeh as I said - its happening today.

In the UK we have NHS (the free one) and there is private hospitals too. Luckily we have insurance to pay for private.

NHS stopped weeks ago. Private are stopping at the moment, her hospital is doing ops this last week. Private hospitals are being rented out by NHS.

I've tried to avoid Dad. I phoned him today and, as usual, its ME ME ME. He sounded VERY disappointed that wifes Op has gone ahead..... Lovely.

He said I had to visit. Umm Dad I'm not supposed to drive around etc. Let alone visit you. And NO I am not visiting the weekend one day after wife comes home. No chance. So hes decided "oh well, you'll definitely come the weekend after then - you're wife will be fine then". No way Dad.

I solved the food problem last weekend. He was not happy. Now hes moaning hes got no cash to pay for "meals on wheels" and needs me to get cash for him. I KNOW hes got cash stashed in the house. I offered to phone "meals on wheels" and pay by card.... "On no its ok I'll manage".

After being up at 530am this am, taking wife to hospital for 7 (had to leave daughter with son for a bit had no choice), rushing home, sorting her out, then rushing to log on to work so I get paid today, Dads crap is not a priority!
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Wish her a speedy recovery, Paul, and hope she's out of there pronto.

Daughter 1 says they're having the calm before the storm (she's on the south coast). Hospital is eerily quiet. Database drawn up to identify staff skills. Can she intubate a patient? - yes, as long as the patient weighs 1-5kg and is in NICU. Tough! - as of now that means she can intubate adults in A&E.

There are 5 (five) of the correct PPE masks in the entire hospital, and suddenly a lot of the junior doctors are wishing they hadn't been in such a hurry to complete their intubation training.

I told her she can have a note from her mother saying I am very strict about this and she is not allowed to work without full approved PPE. I can only assume she hasn't told her father what's going on because if he knew about it he'd have had her taken into protective custody.
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Paul, "Dad's crap" should be your urgent priority. He is getting this badly wrong. Unless he has a death wish which you support, cut and paste from this page and send it to him:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-guidance-on-social-distancing-and-for-vulnerable-people/guidance-on-social-distancing-for-everyone-in-the-uk-and-protecting-older-people-and-vulnerable-adults

Mind you, he'll be getting it through the post anyway in the next few days. Tell him there will be a test to check he's read it.
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CM - I hope he does read it because hes not listening to me.....

I told him earlier "Dad I'm not really supposed to drive around anyway" Silence.
"Dad I've got kids who've been to school recently, its a really bad idea" Silence.
"Dad at the moment, I'm balancing looking after the kids, working from home, and soon my wife will be recovering from an operation"

Then I get "But I'm stuck in with nothing to do so you'll have to visit".

Not unexpected to be honest. As I've said before, is his head, somehow its life and death that I visit to see him. I dont get it to be honest but he'll never change.
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And apparently you're not listening to the news media!

The message is really simple. Why are you giving him so many irrelevant side-issues to whine about instead of the one really simple message?


If you are over 70 and have underlying health conditions -

That includes you, Pops! Twice over!

- avoid ALL non-essential contact with other people.
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At the moment, Twitter et al are buzzing with people angry (and IMO deplorably immoderate in both their language and their reaction) with 'selfish elders' who are accused of taking up beds and staff time and resources because they stubbornly refuse to self-isolate and are spreading their horrible germs around.

It is both worse than that, and - in a cold, calculating way - not as bad.

If the number of cases does rise as sharply as feared, ICU and acute beds will not be crammed with selfish elders. The selfish (or even not at all selfish) elders will probably not get through triage. They will die elsewhere.
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"That includes you, Pops! Twice over!

- avoid ALL non-essential contact with other people."

Ah, but that 1) applies to others and 2) you aren't other people*, you are family and 3) it IS essential...

Thus spake dad...

(* I know it applies to family as well, but this is DAD's thinking - me, Me, ME!)

((no money for MOW? I thought he didn't do deliveries...))

Focus on immediate family, call to check in on him and silent treatment when he starts anything. Just dead silence. Let him rant and ramble on, just tune it out.
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How did your wife's surgery go, Paul?
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paul: Prayers for your wife's surgery and recovery.💞
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Fingers crossed for your wife.

Dad wants you to visit to know his Master Manipulating Skills still work. Once it sinks in that they don't - get ready for one giant tantrum!

CM is correct, unfortunately, old fools who won't isolate are not going to fare well in the ER triage.

This could be very rough indeed.
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Paul,

Best wishes to your wife. Hope her surgery went well and that she will heal and start to feel better. Give an update when you get the chance.

Take care, Paul.
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Thanks all - surgery went well. Shes OK. Obviously a few days in hospital now.
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disgusted - yes he gets "meal on wheels" not sure what its called in the US?
So yes he does get stuff delivered. lol. But not food from a supermarket. Crazy isnt it?

Oh I know hes got money in the house too. Hes lying about that.

Of course, with old people unable to go out they can't get access to cash now. There is NO WAY that there is not an alternative way to pay rather than cash on a monday morning. I offered this to Dad -I'll phone them, I bet I can pay for the next month over the phone.

BUT, of course, he doesnt really want the problem fixed, he wants to use the problem as an EXCUSE.
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