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Barb, I agree the Doctor won't always see it. Especially in a 10min consult.

Teepa's stages makes sense to me. Starting with subtle changes to judgement & reasoning, the cover ups.

It's hard to distinguish though when someone has always had a ridgid way of thinking or dependant type personality always wanting help. This is my Mum too.

Label or not, to move a hard as diamond ridgid thinker into anything is hard to do!
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Progress?
"...find a new servant..."
"...Get someone else roped in to do something you can do yourself..."

Sounds like maybe your last "go at him" sparked a little ember... This may be good news... perhaps he will hound this cousin for a while and leave you be, some at least! That is until the cousin figures it out! Don't tell his cousin about this site!!!
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Well in the past his cousin has been a bit of a nightmare. He once phoned me to "have a word about how Dad needed me".

It is quite funny because hes in for it now and will see how it all works.....

In terms of decline Barb - you may be right. My hands are tied though - there is nothing I can do if he refuses to even agree to anything.
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Start researching places that are close to where you live, Paul. The big event that triggers the need for a higher level of care will happen in the blink of an eye. It is absolute Hell to have to run around looking at facilities overnight and trying to make a decision while your parent is in the hospital and needing tending there.

I speak from experience. Start looking.
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Can't speak for how it works legally in GB, but even if he were determined to be cognitively challenged, is there really anything one can do? I know here I was told by the EC atty that we couldn't force mom to move, even knowing she was in the early stages of dementia - it progressed a bit further before the place we selected was ready. EC atty said we would need to seek guardianship. At that point we didn't even have ANYTHING from her doc (although he agreed to write something, as I needed it to be appointed rep for her pension - federal has their own rules!) So, it would have been a long expensive journey to go that route. We did not, because the facility said they would not accept committals. Creative R Us had to be invoked... She helped a bit by injuring her leg bad enough to need ER treatment and that fed into the fib needed to make the move. This dad doesn't seem to have the kind of issues one would see in early cognitive decline. Not old age type of decline, but real cognitive issues. It seems more like he is just manipulative, self-centered, selfish and possibly "needy".

So, given that his docs haven't determined him to be in any cognitive decline AND there are no POAs even if he was (again, no clue if that is sufficient there to enforce someone to move), there isn't anything that can be done to make a move happen. I'm sure there is some kind of equivalent to guardianship there, but if it is like here in the US, I seriously doubt he would be considered incompetent at this point.

Agreed it would be nice to at least check various places and know what the places are like, what they charge, what they cover for that fee, etc. They are all very different here. But, the status and costs could change at any time and availability changes all the time too. Not knowing when the major issue that will facilitate a move will happen is a huge gate.

Even if you pick a couple of potential "homes", they may not have space when needed or his condition may be beyond their capability. Mom's health is relatively stable, so she's okay in AL/MC for now. If she had a stroke or some other medical emergency that required SNF, we would have to find another place. If this dad's emergency required SNF, those "homes" visited/checked would not be what was needed. Perhaps the availability of SNFs should be checked as well. We don't know what's in store for any of us, so it is good to be prepared, but when we don't know what or when to prepare for, it is difficult.
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Paul, you are in the *awaiting a fall* or other crises to move him to the next stage really. You already know that. I believe there have been hospital visits that were minor. I don't wish any of this on him of course, but it often takes a few falls. Depends on injuries / how strong his bones are. Few cuts & bruises he'll go straight back home but a good #hip or leg will do it - into temporary or permanent care. Or a nasty fall with head strike causing internal bleeding.

My sister's multi falls last year were all minor with bruising. The one years back with a head wound was close, but superficial - was sent home from ER.

She refuses to move, no-one can make her. It's her life & she is happier there. But I stepped out. It's not up to me to enable it.

She will not plan. So I have picked out 3 local places & they will be who I suggest to a Social Worker. It would be whichever (if any) had availability. If not, sent where hospital sends folk & she will have to move again later. I tried my upmost, myself, with family, social worker & other professionals to get a plan. Nope. POA? Nope. Parents going the same way too.

C'est la vie.
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You're all right. Another phone call today "I've been ill I had to call the doctor".

Basically, its hot here in the UK at the moment, so he feels run down and hes got hayfever. So he calls the doctor.

They refuse to come out AGAIN. Can't blame them......
Its just not getting through to him...
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You might call his GP and say "I think I've seen some pretty severe cognitive decline in my dad in the 3 weeks that I was away; he's become more needy and anxious than he was before and is making very illogical decisions about getting out and the like. What can be done to help him?"

Don't take "oh your dad is just needy and annoying". Point out that there has been a change in cognition in the last 12 months (there has!!).

He needs a work up; call the doc out on this. Agree that your dad is annoying and demanding, but that what he is demanding has changed.
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Problem is Dads idea is that these are places "you get sent away to die". Imagine a workhouse in Oliver Twist. My Dad speaks in hushed tones about how someones family "put them away in a home". Its an uphill struggle indeed.

In the UK, you can get a health POA. Dad refuses to allow it - "no need". What can do? Nothing.

I've spoken to his GP in the past. They cant discuss too much with me obviously but they've pretty much said hes competent, but awkward but theres nothing anyone can do about it.
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Barb,
I know what you mean BUT part of me is thinking "can I even be bothered to get involved here?"

I'll get no thanks for it, it'll be a battle and whatever I do will be wrong. Tempted to them all sink or swim and let the golden child (brother) deal with it all and wash my hands of it.
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Paul, you don't seem to have the capacity to let your father sink or swim, do you?

Some how, you still want to be thanked for your efforts and appreciated as a "good son".

The problem here is in the mis-match between dad's expectations of you and what you are willing to do. In order for this to succeed, you need enough strength of ego if you like to KNOW in your own heart and soul that you ARE doing enough and that the lack of approval from your parent--about your job, your marriage, your lifestyle and everything else, doesn't matter to you.

You can't seem to let go of seeking dad's approval.

As adults, we do things because they are the right thing to do. Right for US, regardless of what mum and dad think.
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Barb - yeh I guess I just want to be a good guy and not upset anyone....
I guess I still struggle with that.

Im getting there - I really dont care what he thinks of me any more...
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Paul--Unfortunately, there are people for whom no matter what you do, they won't LET you be the "good guy" because they'll find fault with anything and everything you do!
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I just started watching The Sopranos (never seen it). The Grandmother character just cracks me up 🤣🤣.

Ep 1 & she set fire to her kitchen, gets a new home help woman but fires her, plays the 'poor old me' & won't drive to her son's house but drives all her friends around! (Although that ended badly - ran over one). Toured a lovely assisted living but screamed the place down about it being a nursing home. Only negative words spill from her mouth.

My DH & I were laughing our heads off.
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You need time with your family. My mother has become a mean, very spoiled 84 year old. She says the same when I have not seen her for a few days but she has a sitter four hours everyday! Send dad delivery groceries and maybe a delivery cooked dinner. My sister and I take turns being available when we are out of town just in case there is an emergency. Suggest brother does the same with you.
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kmich0001 - it is good for paul to know he isn't alone (others have chimed in before.) Sounds like your mother is cut from the same cloth as his father!

As for the suggestions to send deliveries of ANY kind, this thread is over a year old and has 2k+ comments, so it isn't likely you would have read them all. His dad will NOT accept deliveries. He is a REAL pooper! He says he NEEDS to go shopping, but paul knows he has enough. If paul mentions having it delivered, he backs down and says he'll wait, so clearly he DIDN'T need whatever it was!

The brother is semi-useless as well, even after becoming unemployed (he sent his girlfriend now wife to take care of some things.) HE takes after their father and tries to dictate to paul how things will be split between them. Last I heard, he's been blocked by both paul and his wife!

It really has come down to a battle of wits or perhaps a power struggle. Paul needs to continue to stand his ground, set/maintain strong boundaries, and let the whining moaning complaining fall on deaf ears. He has been getting better at this! It does take time to learn what to do/not do. For instance he would give a reason why he couldn't come when dad insists he is needed (he isn't!), and dear old dad will change tactics and attack that excuse. The answer has to be a simple no, can't do it X day, I will be there Y day and stick to it! For too long pops has gotten his way and it will take time to get through, if ever. Sometimes we can make changes happen (but the other person has to be willing to learn and change), most of the time we have to change ourselves and how we deal with what life throws at us!

But, see paul, you aren't alone!
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Tonight for probably the first time ever I gave him a one word reply "NO".

I said I'd visit next thursday evening. He didnt like that. Wanted me to come sooner. Thing is I'm not making it up -with wife working shifts and kids doing stuff its not a lie.

So he tried "but I need food". Not seen him for 5 weeks so suddenly one or two days makes a difference. Come on....

Then, "can't you make an effort for me?" That made me so mad....

I said "I'm BUSY until Thursday! No!"
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Well done Paul!
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My Mother has compulsions. I've noticed that when a compulsion takes over - it really takes over. That's all she can think about. No listening to reason, no deferring it to later, no compromise to try another way. She loses all empathy for others at that time. You could have a broken arm & leg but if she wanted something from the top cupboard, she would still insist you get it.

I see similarities, but not quite the same. The *I need it now so YOU have to* is the same but the skill to change tack is different. The 'I've got no food - I'll starve - you must come' evolves (if it doesn't work) to 'I'm so ill - I might die - you must come'. It's more manipulation maybe?

I do think there is a lack of planning as well going on though. More like 'I've run out of my favorite food! I need it TODAY!' Rather than 'when you next come, could you please bring some xy food'.

Human nature is such a funny thing isn't it?

Keep chanting to him. Deliveries, deleveries, deliveries 😁
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And the world did not come to an end.

How did he react?
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Bets?
1.Scootered to the shops himself?
2. Called other son
3. Called cousin
4. Called Doctor as now ill
5. Took it on the chin - thought about it & decided he needs more home help.
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Paul, now you need to move on to ‘No’ with no reason at all. Baby steps, baby steps.
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Yes, as several have pointed out on this forum, "no" is a complete sentence.
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Paul - Well done!!! Once you've popped that cork, it will get easier to pour NO out! AWESOME! Wallow in your success, not his stupid reactions.

jacobsonbob:
and <b>NO.<b> is even more complete! (the <b> is for HTML to make the enclosed area bold!)

Beatty: I would only wager on #5 never happening (not into betting, but isn't there a way to bet negative odds? Could make a fortune on that one from someone who hasn't been on this thread!)

The rest, probably a crap shoot, but calling the other son would take high odds, followed by calling the doc! Go get it himself? No way, then he wouldn't have something he needs gotten for him! Cousin - wondering if that one already read the writing on the wall and high-tailed it out of there!
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Paul, I agree with everything Beatty said. You have to wait for the fall. The one that lands him in the hospital and then into a facility. I have finally learned to tell my mother no without any guilt.

my mother is turning 96 in 2 weeks. She’s still living in her hoarded house all by herself. I tell her no. I let her make her own decisions, I don’t tell her what to do, I don’t treat her like a child. I have stepped back. I see and talk to her once a week. My son goes over 2 or 3 times a week to bring in the mail and take out garbage. She takes call a bus to the grocery store all by herself. She has her mind but she can barely walk. She’s too vain to use a cane or walker. I get along with her GREAT as her DAUGHTER, not her caregiver. I learned to CARE without being the CAREGIVER.
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thanks all. He is going through one of his "phases" at the moment where hes worked out I'm not doing what he wants.

In his head, I should call x number of times a week, and visit x number of times a week as its my duty. Hence the trickery to up the numbers. Or I need to justify it and give a good reason - its weird.

I'm doing neither so he doesn't like it. As someone else said though, what pleasure can you get out of manipulating someone to visit who doesnt want to be there, I dont get it? Well done, you won, so what?
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Beatty -

probably 6) nothing. Because it was all made up anyway to be honest.

Thats the dance we do. He tries it on, sometimes he gets away with it, mostly he doesnt. If it fails, try again next day.

4) is a possibililty. when things dont go his way. Sort of like "look how ill I am and you didnt come". Never works because hes in good health but at the moment hes dying to get into hospital I know.
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So, why is it that is dying to be in a hospital right now?

Good for you for saying "no"!
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Barb - anytime Dad feels a little under the weather he thinks he should be in hospital. He feels the medical profession "dont know what its like and they don't listen to how ill he is".

Of course, in reality hes just old. Health-wise hes pretty good - his doctors seem to think so anyway.

Probably another fake "fall" coming. The pattern from last time is repeating at the moment.
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BarbBrooklyn asks:

"...why is it that is dying to be in a hospital right now?"

Ever heard of Munchausen disorder?

"Factitious disorder imposed on self, also known as Munchausen syndrome, is a factitious disorder wherein those affected feign disease, illness, or psychological trauma to draw attention, sympathy, or reassurance to themselves."

It is one of the ways/ploys he tries to get sympathy/compliance. From the original post (and shows up various times in the comments):

"Always is when I go away for the weekend with my family...

You can guarantee when I come back he's "been ill". EVERY TIME. So I phoned him - first sentence "I've been ill"."

Some will even go so far as to inflict harm on themselves, to prove their point (remember paul's post about the supposed head injury, that the docs felt were self-inflicted?) Superficial injuries is about all he's likely capable of... I don't think he has it in himself to do any serious harm.
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