Always is when I go away for the weekend with my family...
You can guarantee when I come back he's "been ill". EVERY TIME. So I phoned him - first sentence "I've been ill". Like its my fault because I went away!
STILL not taking all his medication that the GP gave him so I offer ZERO sympathy. Basically, wants me to tell him how he can feel better - "Take the meds the GP has given you Dad, if that fails then go an see you're GP but I'm not a doctor."
His words - "I desperately need you to visit the weekend." "I've got no food in the house" (Brother lives literally 5 mins drive from him - I live 35-40 mins. Brother is probably laying low). Anyway, he knows my car is in the garage so I'm struggling for transport and he knows my wife works weekends so may need our other car. So I tell him I can't promise. Anyone would have thought I'd told him I'd murdered the family next door.
Apparently, I'm "letting him down" and "need to arrange something", and "wife needs to understand". Of course the standby offer of home delivery groceries is not good enough - he doesn't want to spend the £30 minimum - they have to be hand delivered by me!
I've tried setting boundaries, I've said no can do, I've tried ignoring, I've tried just not doing. Give him his due he's relentless in his quest to get me to do what he wants!
Ive come a LONG way but still I know I'm not great at resolving things....
Hes been on for weeks now for me to "take him out in the car" because I think he knows if I'm to do that I have to make significant sacrifices maybe. Drop the kids with someone, take most of a day etc.
If I come up with an idea then it must be what is easier for me so no big deal.
I worked this one out a while ago. Hes less interested in me going to see him and more interested in me proving (again for the 1000th time) that he can get me do something he wants me to and I'll put him first.
He is clearly a narcissist. They come in many forms. He’s what my hero, Dr. Les Carter, labels a Fragile Victim Narcissist. He explains very clearly at 7:20 in this video:
https://youtu.be/AOKmQRmwvdo
You were trained into this as a child. He taught you to think that he was wonderful and that he did so much for you. Your mother wasn’t there to give you another picture. There may even have been a time when you had to ‘choose’, for which you would have been schooled to give the answer he wanted (then he ‘won’, not your mother). You are his best victim, most of the others in his life have faded away. Your brother is self-centred, and that’s no fun for him. For you, Dad’s perpetual contests have become more and more extreme. Your own life is complex and you have real responsibilities that are far more important than his unnecessary demands.
You are heading towards where I ended up with my dreadful father – you work out what commonsense and your conscience tells you is right, and ignore everything else. Perhaps now that means ignoring him completely. Or you could just drop in unannounced when it works for you. Perhaps you simply make your ‘crisis’ plan and wait for it to be needed. The only thing you need to prove is that you can make your own decisions and stick to them. That’s how you can ‘resolve’ things – not by agreement with him. It’s sad to get to this point, but he has pushed you to it. Best wishes, Margaret
RSVPs were returned.
Tim: Sorry I am busy. But I could come Saturday night. Jack: Sorry I am busy & I don't like the diner food. But if you have pizza another night I will come.
Jane: What would suit me better is lunch instead of dinner, Sunday instead of Friday, at a diner near my house, not yours.
Dick, Carol & Sally enjoyed their Friday night at the Diner (just them).
Carol was surprised anyone would try to control an invitation sent to them but Dick just shrugged it off. He said you can't please everyone.
While Tim & Jack had their own preferences & did go so far as to suggest alternatives to suit themselves, they didn't push it too far. They declined & said see you next time.
Jane however, continues to try to control every facet of her life. She does not recognise any boundary. The entire world & all people in it are to be manipulated to suit her own needs & preferences. Jane is socially blind to how this appears to others.
People think Jane is a PITA & stopped inviting her.
That term, the Fragile Victim Narcissist. I had not heard it before - but it fit's Paul's Dad (imho) like a glove! SPOT ON.
Now Jane from my story (real story btw) I have always thought of as a Control Freak. There is a Control Freak subtype of Narcissism! Also SPOT ON.
Thankyou so much.
A lot of it with him is worry and anxiety. He hates getting ill, and he hates the feeling that he might not be able to look after himself. BUT, whats in his head is 100x worse than what is real.
Hence, he seems to need to "test" me constantly to ensure hes still got me at his beck and call. As you can see when its 1000 times!
As you say its getting to that point now....
The lady who used to give him a lift to church, suddenly stopped going or her car broke down? Or did it?
The neighbour who used to get his newspaper every day, started spending more time at his holiday caravan.
His cousin, who previously, ran errands for Dad suddenly started feeling under the weather a lot.
I can see what he does to people...
Is not my parent though!
I'm always on the lookout for more defences so I went researching this fragile victim (or vulnerable) narcissist after Swilson's very helpful video.
Found this;
"Interacting with vulnerable narcissists without enabling their emotional manipulation can take practice, but it is possible. Consider trying the gray rock method: basically, make yourself so mundane that the narcissist finds no satisfaction in needling you. Don’t fuel the narcissist; drama, conflict, and even stimulating conversation are off-limits. How are you today? Fine. What have you been up to? Work. How is work? Fine. Has it been busy? Same as usual. (You get the idea.)"
😂😂😂 I realised that's how I answer my Mother! Otherwise a storm of questions descends on me. Looks like a small cloud but somehow feels like an oppressive fog, extracting information for future use.
I think we need to start a grey rock club! 😁
Am I going to hell because I'm glad ! lol
Of course, both Dad and brother are saying hes exempt and I can still visit. Umm nope. The rules are if an elderly parent needs you for care etc. And he doesnt.
And brother lives a mile away in the same county.
There is no way I can justify driving over to see him from 2 counties away with a pint of milk. Neither of them are happy.
YES a few weeks off at least...
A little time & space... like a little holiday for your brain!
🌴🍹
Most of us will be there to greet you!!!! ;-D
My sympathy for all the people who are caught with the new higher Covid numbers in the UK. Even if most of them have suntans to show for the summer folly, it’s horrible for everyone.
BUT… Don’t treat this as ‘time off’ from your problem. The forces of evil are gathering for a come-back. When the lock-down finishes, brother will demand that you do double duty to make up for this, and so will Dad. It’s blindingly obvious.
The best thing is to use this time to get your head a bit clearer from the relentless pressure, and decide on a permanent strategy for the future. Perhaps this is the time to find a shrink to talk to. Perhaps your wife would be willing to talk about the future in general, rather than as a current annoying problem. Or she might be able to refer you to someone (not a close friend) through the health system. Do you have a Marriage Guidance organisation (here re-branded as Relationships Australia)? Perhaps you get some ideas and then try them out on us, for free.
Use the time to save your sanity, long term! Yours, Margaret
THAT was a good one! Got a laugh from me!!
I did NOT type it that way, I copy/pasted the original statement and put it in quotes. The original statement made by Paul has NOT been modified, and yet mine has. I also see Margaret's usage of the SAME word hasn't been modified.
I saw something similar first in a different posting, with a different word. Thought maybe the censor police are out and about... Well, if they are, they are NOT very good at their job. Censor one and leave all the others alone?
Yet they let some really obviously nasty comments stay...
He does not need me. My brother is a mile down the road. He just wants things his way.
A welcome break.....
They've pegged yours now, but not the original from Paul!
I didn't even type mine, it was just a copy/paste of the original!
The "Karen" police are here... If we were using "naughty" language to put someone down, fine, but seriously? This censoring business is really STUPID! If people don't like "naughty" words, go somewhere else.
Dad may get more things delivered, do more over the phone, get bills done automatically etc.
Maybe he will start to meet his own social needs elsewhere (other son etc, local friends own age) & not rely on Paul for that too.
This step back may give space for change to happen on both sides. Dad will either swim or sink. If swim - yay. He can continue on at home for a while yet. If he sinks ie still so needy.. demanding of other son to breakpoint there.. oh well... boundaries are in place to prevent that spilling into Paul's world.
The bi-weekly visits are gone.
Time for a 'new normal' after lockdown. What level of contact would that be?
He won't do anything that you mention below. He'll just moan.
Yes we'll see after lockdown.
Maybe Brother will call quits & tell him "Hey Dad, time get more help/time to move!".
Alas, another old dog.
Paul- your dad may think that and label you 'a bad son.' For those who know your him well, they won't think that. For those who don't know him well and think you're a bad son, try to disregard their opinion of you. They and their opinion shouldn't matter one iota. You do have to work on thickening up your skin. It's easier said than done.
Polar, you did it again....nailed it.
Freedom from THAT thought - now that would be real freedom indeed.
Good = does what he is told by a grumpy old man. Or does it?? But what if good meant something else? What is a 'good son' anyway?
Hes trying to make excuses now for me to ring him every day. He knows I dont want. I dont get why he feels the need to play games to force me.
Honestly, a daily 20 min phone call sucks the life out of me.
Take a break from calling your dad. It isn’t worth getting stressed out over.
Take care.
Mmmm-hmmm, 'zat so, dat's nice, oh, by the way dad, I offered to take you out for your birthday and you REFUSED.
(From previous postings:
"Again hes trying it on this weekend. Its his birthday so thats a reason for me to drop everything and go and see him."
"margaret - I have offered him an option, offered to take him out for a meal and hes refused.")
So, he's trying to rub it in your face that bro took him out. Great pops, but when I offered to take you out, YOU REFUSED. Hope you both had a nice time, gotta run, bye!
Why are you doing 20 min daily calls? Don't answer, don't call. And don't keep trying to figure out why he does what he does:
"I dont get why he feels the need to play games to force me." You don't need to figure anything out. It is what it is, you can't change it, so just try your best to ignore it, and the calls.