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Yes, an Enforcer. Every family should get one 😁

A friend's brother had to play a sort of similar role at Xmas. Part kindergarten teacher, part police, part referee (setting up activities, distractions, smoothing differences & de-esculating arguments for elders with & without dementia & siblings (one with mental health issues).

Sounded exhausting but a vital role.
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paul: How did it go for your MIL at wife's sister's?
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Hopefully MIL enjoyed her time at her son's and daughter's places, and not "sulking in the corner not speaking to anyone." Haha.
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Well she moaned about going there. Definitely prefers our place.... lol

Thing is, in the past, shes played the "Im so lonely in the house on my own" card....
Now we know and think "hang on you had an offer but you chose not to take it up".

Wife has got into the idea now that she is just going to tell her mother the plans and thats it.

BIL was good to be fair. He drove to the house, walked in, told her what was happening end of and she didnt argue back.
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Dear Paul, what have you learned from these events with your MIL? How will you apply your conclusions to your dear Dad?
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"How will you apply your conclusions to your dear Dad?"

MIL and Dad react differently.

MIL, when TOLD this is what she will be doing doesn't like it, but clams up and "does it". She is a bit more compliant, if that's the right word to use. She didn't put up a fight anyway. Complained some, voiced some of how she wants it to be, but didn't really argue it or make a big stink.

Dad, on the other hand, argues anything he is TOLD will be done and/or just doesn't listen. Paul also has no BIL to play the "heavy", but even if he did, I doubt Dad is going to buckle to anyone.

He can try, never say never, but I wouldn't be holding my breath. State how it will be all you want, likely a waste of time, BUT stick to what you say will be done, whether he moans, demands, grumbles or tries to argue. Plans, supplies and visits will be on Paul's terms, not dad's. Just a lot more grousing.
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Yeh I'll tell Dad something and he will "forget" I said it and try again a week later.....

Hes doing it at the moment. No I cant visit because we're in lockdown again...
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Well the UK mutant strain has now arrived upon our shores too...
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About the new strain of virus, could it be possible that the new strain didn't arrive from somewhere else, but was naturally mutated inhouse?
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Apparently genome matching tells you where that strain is from 🤔.

"Authorities worried UK strain of COVID-19 may be so infectious it broke through normal quarantine protocols.

Woman infected with UK strain has 79 close contacts and had 689 "movements" in the community".

Gosh, what a busy gal! I'm wondering how she got time to work... But she was travelling to work by train.

Reminds me of my first winter in London - I got so many colds & chest infections. The GP asked if I took the tube & said "Well what do you expect? Sitting jammed together with all those people & all their germs". Thanks Doc.
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Still in lockdown level 4 here in wales. Only food shops open, schools closed, no travel.

Still doesn't stop Dad asking every single time I speak to him "when am I visiting?". Its like a broken record now. He seems to think because hes "elderly" the rules don't apply.

Strictly speaking a person who lives on their own, is allowed to see ONE other family. If he sees me brother, he can't see me - I've explained this to him.

BUT, for some reason, he seems to think hes "in need of care". He isn't.

Hes moaning about food as the excuse again. Its a bit unfair that hes doing this.

He says hes running out of food so I said:-

1. Isn't brother still visiting then to get you food? ("Yes, but.....")
2. I can get it delivered for you? ("I don't want food delivered")

Hes not starving. Meal on wheels are coming still. Brother is getting him food. Hes refused to let me get it delivered. Yet he expects me to break the law! No way.

To be honest, I probably would visit now and again even if I'm not supposed to but I'm sick of him pushing it. Chances are slim that I'd get pulled by the police who'd decide my reason for travel was not good enough but still...
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MIL update as well.

Wife has REALLY put her foot down here and it seems to be working. Shes actually started to look after herself a little better.

Shes still got skin like a rhino and will pretty much try it on but wife seems to have it all under control.

I don't know what we've done to deserve parents like this to be honest. All we both want is nice parents who act like parents, and not needy toddlers.
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Paul, you know this is all about CONTROL. Stay home and stay safe, the oldies are all taken care of and of course anytime now they will get the vaccine, whereas we will have to wait a while longer and so will be “on risk” every time we go and see them.
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Paul, I don't remember if you mentioned whether your dad enjoys your company when you visit. Does he? I know you mentioned he totally ignores your daughter.

About MIL, good for your wife to be firm with her mother. I bet her patience is wearing thin. And I agree with you about your dad and MIL becoming needy.
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polar - well it often seems like a "duty" visit more than anything. I often get the impression he wants me there because I "should" visit him more than anything....

Not taken my daughter for almost a year now. He is not interested, just wants me to visit him.
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Here's a weird & wacky questions for you today. Who cuts Dad's toenails?

I found when I was being hinted at/pressured to visit my sister more, I did get that guilt: the yeah I should visit more etc.

But then it was pointed out she only had her toenails done professionally (at pensioner subsidised cost) at xx frequency & they probably needed attention inbetween times. Right. And? She didn't want to pay for extra services.

Just what the Dickens are you hinting at now???

Any assumptions that my *friendly visiting* was valued went out the window. Another hook to lure in a maid.

Paul, does Dad still have little jobs lined up for you when you visit? Little jobs that he has other options for? But keeps him *needy* & you his *fixer* where he wants you both to be?

SO over this fishing game.
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Beatty - now he does get someone to come in to do this. And moans it costs money lol.

Oh yes hes got lots of things lined up every time. I know this.

His all time classic was when we were away in a hotel that once. And he peed himself. He got in the shower and wanted me to wash him.....

Ewwww. No way. You manage every single day of the year without me (ok once a week - hes not the cleanest) there is NO WAY.
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Paul,

It’s getting more difficult for your dad to manage on his own.

He’s crying out for help. He has never been a pleasant person. It would be a nightmare for you or your brother to care for him.

He needs to be in a care home. Can you bring this us to him as factually and calmly as you can?

I know that you and your brother aren’t close but if he would get on board too it would help. Try by telling him that dad is needing additional help and that it would be best if he lived in a care home. Write a note to him and mail it if you can’t stomach speaking to him.

Good luck with this situation.

We all vent about issues but at some point actions must be taken to remedy the problems that are occurring and making us miserable.
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Need,
"It would be a nightmare for you or your brother to care for him". You bet.

But Dad will not care about that! A little thing like OTHER peoples' inconvenience, hardship, limits. Oh no. He will be insisting Paul or Bro do it to his last gasping breath.

The toenail issue crossed my mind as a litmus test. My family really did not care that this was not for me - they just expect expect expect everything they need I will mop up.

I met someone yesterday who refused rehab ("I don't want that"). Who will help you wash, get dressed, do your toenails I asked? "Oh my Husband. My friends. I have a lot of friends. My DIL. They will do everything". Right. But you need help at the toilet I asked? "Oh but I don't want rehab so they will have to help me". The world will turn & do as I want was her attitude.

Paul. You are not alone out there. These bossy/needy folk are everywhere.
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A cautionary tale aboit toenails:

Grandma lived with us. A nurse was paid to give Gma a bath once a week and Gma's other daughter (my aunt) came to "do her feet" once a month.

Aunt nicked a corner of Gma's toe: it became infected and due to poor circulation in her legs (complicated by pneumonia (Flu brought home by my younger brother), Gma died a fairly gruesome death from gangrene.

Moral: Get your elder's feet cared for by a podiatrist.
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Barb: Yikes! A preventable death. Poor grandma.
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Paul: That mental image of dad in shower. No way! Edit: that was a might harsh of me and I am sorry. Poor dad.
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Barb, I am so sorry about your Grandma. I'm sure your Aunt did a good job but sometimes little accidents happen. Just so awful that the consequences were so dire.
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My pet hate is uncared for feet. Specifically when discovering an elder with overgrown toenails, blisters, open sores, black toes & my least favourite, black gumph between the toes. It's so sad when they just cannot reach their feet but don't ask for help.
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No change with Dad at the moment. Constant fight reminding him that I can't travel to him - he seems to think the rules don't apply to him.

But thats Dad all over. He thinks hes 100 times iller than he actually is. Hes convinced hes going to starve even though he gets meals on wheel and brother does shopping for him. (and hes still turning down food delivery offers).

Same old game......
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Talking to him on the phone is "challenging" at the moment too.

I can pretty much predict every phone call. 10 mins of him telling me how ill he is, 10 mins of telling me how bad my brothers new job is, 10 mins of him trying to convince me that since "I'm his carer" (no im not!) Im ok to break covid lockdown rules. Every conversation the same.

The brother thing is doing my nut. He never asks me how my job is fine but he seems obsessed with how hard my brother has got it and how its so unfair that his pay is so poor, and hes working outside in the filth and the cold and its hard work blah blah blah. Of course, I'm in my warm house working from home, getting paid well....... Jeez so what? I listened in school he skived off whenever he could.....

I dread the next installment of "its so unfair he doesn't get to see his kids". I just sigh - I've got two lovely kids, 25th wedding anniversary this year. Brother flitted from partner to partner, dropping kids and leaving them each time he moved on pretty much. Then expects it all years later.

You make you're choices in life, he made his, I made mine. Deal with it.
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Paul,

I am sure that you don’t expect your dad to change at this point in time.

My mom’s attitude towards my brothers is the same as your dad’s attitude towards your brother.

For my own sanity I had to learn to tune it out. You know as well as I that we can never convince them of anything so let it go.

Just don’t respond to your dad’s statements. Will he get mad? Maybe, but he will find something to be mad about no matter what, so why respond to his foolishness?

I found peace when I surrendered to the fact that I was completely powerless in convincing my mom of anything.

Eventually, I lost the desire to convince her of reality. I figured that if she wanted to live in her delusional world, I would allow her to do so without my input. The end result changed my outlook.

I found peace and contentment in my life. Her life is the same as it will always be.

We have no control over their attitude towards others (our brothers) but we have 100 percent control over our reaction to it.

Don’t give your dad any ammunition to argue with. Of course you don’t agree with him.

I don’t agree with most of what my mom says but I don’t express those feelings to her anymore.

I speak about neutral topics only. If she brings up my brothers I either acknowledge her feelings or I give no response. She moves on to another topic because she has nothing to contradict me with.

Life became more pleasant for me when I didn’t fuel the fire.
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I'm so glad you found on peace Need. Hard won but you explain the process so well. Tune out & let it go. Breathe in, breathe out. Ahhh.
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Beatty,

Geeeeeez! It took me awhile to do so but I finally did it. Hahaha 🤣, ask the good people on this forum how long it took me to finally process it all?

It was a long time! This forum and my therapist pounded it into my head. I’m grateful that no one gave up on me. 😊
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Paul, I may miss the mark here.. I do feel your Dad is being stubborn over the grocery delivery. He COULD get deliveries !! But then he'd lose his leverage to lure you there...

Three of my relatives have swapped to deliveries through this time. No fuss. Wanted to save their families the bother.

I do think your Dad could be fearful & lonely. That is quite understandable, especially now. But I also think he would be fearful & lonely even if you lived with him + just as demanding. All day he'd be needy, ill, wanting stuff done. To keep you orbiting him all day.

I would seriously suggest to him to ask his council for a aged needs assessment & for him to get regular services in to help in. That if he needs help to shop, cook, clean, whatever, he should get this REGULAR help. That you WORK & you cannot now (in the pandemic) or later EVER be his maid/man-servant. Make that clear. I am your SON.

"If you need a maid, get one.
If you are ill, call your Doctor. If you don't want to live alone anymore, that's OK! Move to an Old Age Home".

If his conversation can be on repeat - so can yours 😅
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