It's been a hard week....

disgusted - nah pretty sure Dad is giving card to brother and saying "take £200".
As I said he checks his bank statement to the penny.

Brother has been without a job for a bit and has the financial maturity of a 6 year old anyway. So he always needs money and dad always bails him out. Of course, I dont need the money....

It just grinds with me this "pay to play" thing as you call it. I can't visit because of the situation and he thinks whoever does gets paid for it. Wow.

NeedHelp - Wow thats just awful....

I dunno this is the final straw with Dad with me. To think that hes "paying" the favourite son and trying to punish me. All because the last year I've refused to break the law and last few years told him no when he wants me to neglect my kids......

I remember all those years, when I nearly got divorced because of him and I really tried to keep him happy. Brother went years with being pretty much non-existent and hes forgotten that.....

I just think that every day our relationship is getting eroded more and more by his selfish behaviour. Not much left now.

Paul,

I feel the same way. I was the one that was ALWAYS around. My brothers would come and go.

It can get under our skin regarding the way our parents behave with siblings.

My mom has always been vey frugal. So it is puzzling why she freely hands over money to them. I guess they feel sorry for them, maybe even obligated to do so. I think they are fearful of being cut off by them too.

Mom is like your dad. She always knows exactly how much money is in her checking and saving accounts too.

I wanted a relationship with my family. I look back and see where I created a situation that made it easy for them to become dependent on the.

Good for you to back off a bit. Of course, you can’t risk going to see him during COVID. I hate that I missed out on being with my husband and children due to spending so much time with my mom.

Hi Paul. I can see how it irks you that dad gives money to one son and not the other. It doesn't surprise you, does it? However, I don't think you should be angry for several reasons.

Firstly, Your brother is not smart and successful as you, so dad is helping him out. If you Paul were like your brother, a failure in life, I bet dad would likely help you out, too. But you're not a faiilure, you're much more successful than your brother. You wouldn't want to trade your success for dad's sympathy and help, would you?

Secondly, dad sees himself in your brother. He sees a struggling hardworking blue color worker like himself. I know he doesn't care that brother doesn't take care of his children or that he wastes his money on booze. Dad only cares that brother pays attention to him.

Lastly, I can see from a parental perspective of a parent with a child on the spectrum and a normal child, that I love them both, but I love each differently because they are different people. If I help one child more, that is because she needs more help, not because I love the other child less. This reason may not apply to your dad though because he seems to think only of himself.

So, my point is you should be happy you have a successful business and a loving family and you don't need dad's money.

Paul,

You certainly have a right to be annoyed.

I wasn’t able to feel my emotions fully until my therapist said to me, “It’s a normal, healthy reaction to become angry when you are mistreated.”

Something about his statement resonated with me so deeply that I snapped out of feeling that I was wrong for being angry.

I needed to hear this important message from my therapist, an outside objective professional. It carried more weight. I took it seriously.

All my life, I had heard statements from my mom like, “Why are you angry? You SHOULDN’T be angry!” Brainwashing!

It takes awhile to sort through our emotions.

We can’t simply gloss over our emotions, we should honor what we feel, acknowledge it and then work towards healing for ourselves.

We learn to recognize that we will not change others.

I could not influence anyone else, even though I deeply wished that I could have.

Slowly but surely, I gained my footing.

My emotions no longer crippled me.

I was able to gain a healthy perspective and move forward with healing my childhood wounds.

I progressed to the point where I could tackle my present day hurts as well.

So don’t be discouraged, Paul. I was a complete mess!

I didn’t have the benefit of distance that you have with your dad.

Mom lived with me for 15 years! It was incredibly hard for me to break free.

It isn’t as easy as people think it is to break away.

We carry a ton of emotions inside of us. It took time for me to sort it out.

I am grateful to my sweet husband who was my rock in my time of need, my beautiful daughters that supported me, my therapist who grounded me, my spiritual life, my friends, my nieces, nephews, cousins and neighbors, and support groups, in person and this online forum.

I have faith Paul, that one day things will become clearer for you regarding family issues.

paul: That's not right that your brother is ACCEPTING your dad's money. After our mother passed away, we had some bills to pay where my sole sibling and I owed money. Since he had handled mother's online banking, I had to find out on the sly that HE was using mother's money for his share, where I had used MY own money.

Dear Paul, your last posts rang some bells with me, reminding me of some posters’ experience with a narcissistic parent. There are several typical stories, including different experiences for different children in the family.

The stories I remembered were about one child who was groomed to be good, nice, helpful, but never got in return the love they wanted. This child was often the youngest, and kept trying for decades. They always hoped for a final acknowledgement of how much they had done for the parent. Nyah, never coming. The narcissistic parent stays totally self centred. The other children in the family might have had quite different personal experiences, and find it hard to believe or relate to the ‘victim’ - who then feels even worse.

If this rings bells with you, you might like to read the Care Topic about N for Narcissism. If you too can see some similarities, it might help you to understand what is going on, and give you ideas about what to do.

Best wishes, Margaret

Yeh its not so much the money - I dont really need it....

Its Dads attempt to use it to control me that gets me.....

In the past, I've said to Dad yes give brother some money. The one time his car broke down and he couldnt get to work. OK 90% of his "problems" are his fault but there we go. Dad gave him £300 at the time. Yeh a car for that!

I phone Dad and all I hear about is brothers job, how bad it is, how poor the pay is. Yes he sees my brother in him. Hes the blue collar worker and Im, the "manager" who has it easy.

To be honest, its been great not seeing him. Its going to awful having to go back to it. The trek around the supermarket because "I've got no food", the 30 min drive there, an hour of him talking rubbish, then 30 min home. Every week - waste of my life.....

Of course, hes managed for food last few weeks/months without me.....
He'll be itching to get me back under his control and doing what he wants.....

I just want a Dad that is "normal". Acts properly, doesnt play games, actually likes his grandkids etc... Never happening is it?

llama - you mention that. When Dad passes that is going to be a nightmare.....

Brother already says "oh I'll move into Dads flat" Umm no it doesnt work like that.....

Its going to be hell....

Paul,

Your brother has the same personality as mine.

The truth is that they only look out for themselves.

Be totally honest here, even if they had money, they would still kick others to the curb.

They use their lack of money as an excuse for their poor behavior.

I see right through it. There are people with plenty of money and still treat people horribly.

The flip side of it, is there are plenty of people that are dirt poor and are kind and respectful to others.

I don’t buy any of their excuses about who they are. It is their true character.

I believe people have a core personality that rarely changes no matter what their circumstances are.

Paul.

Think about this when you think about your brother’s lack of money.

A long time ago, my oldest brother said to me, “If I only had a third of your money, I would be doing okay.”

You know what I told him, “You think so? Well, you would also have to take my bills along with my income!”

Our brothers are delusional by thinking it’s all about ‘easy’ street! We went to school to be prepared for life and worked for our money.

I told him that if he had used his money responsibly instead of blowing it, he could have had money to pay his bills!

My oldest brother never faced his addiction. He refused going to rehab.

Then I reminded my brother that I pay my bills. I never asked our parents for money like he did.

I have a heart and have helped people get over a hump when needed. With our brothers though, it’s not a bump in the road. It’s a crappy lifestyle!

All of my brothers have been foolish with money. Then they want to boohoo about it. It gets old fast!

NeedHelp - oh yes spot on. My brother has only got himself to blame for ALL of his problems....

I probably told you the story about how he nearly went to prison for tax evasion one time. He was working self-employed and his excuse was no-one told him he had to sort his own tax payments out. (Does anyone really think they dont have to pay any tax?). So he basically spent the lot on alcohol.....

Then the letters started coming - he threw them in the bin. Then it got serious, they raided his house early one morning. He basically owed over £20K in unpaid taxes and fines....

Dad asked me to help him out with advice. I refused. Got bit by that one before in the past - I'd be wasting my breath.

In the end, he had to pay an accountant to sort it all out. Inland Revenue let him off ALL the fines, a lot of the actual tax too and let him pay it off over 5 years.

Both of them - him and Dad then moaned about how hard done by the working man was in this country. How they were "picking on him", how was he supposed to pay EXTRA tax back as well for the next 5 years, Why is he so lucky because I've never had problems like that. Oh and the best one of all - he got robbed by the accountant who charged him £200 to sort out the mess......

I remember my replies at the time - both Dad and brother from this moment decided I though I was better than them. (To be honest, I am. lol)

1. The rest of us pay tax and not spend it down the pub.
2. The rest of us have to consider what we're spending money on and not think "sod it"
3. Some of us pay £100 a month to accountants to ensure we don't get in that mess.
4. How much does he think professional people like accountants charge? £2 an hour?

I even said, at the time, he deserved to go to prison - he did. That made me popular!

But yeh Dad identifies....

Dad is one of lifes losers. Thinks of himself first and foremost. Won't take a chance on anything. Won't look at someone else's point of view....

I often wondered how he'd been divorced twice when I was younger. Now I wonder how 2 women ever married him in the first place.

I must have picked up something from my mothers genes because we're totally different. My attitude is "give it a go", Dad is "oh no dont get noticed".

as I've said even know, I get the full story once a week of the trials and tribulations of brother working in factory, how hard it is etc. Yet he has no idea what I do, not interested, and appears to have no desire to learn. As far as hes concerned, I'm the "lucky" son whos got it all....

Paul,

I feel your pain! Truly I do. My brothers are the same, including not paying taxes! It’s unreal, isn’t it?

I would not be able to put my head on my pillow and sleep if I owed taxes!

You wonder about your dad with two wives. I wonder about my brother with 4 wives! LOL

I don’t know what my brother’s wives saw in him!

My brother charmed them, I am sure. Then his ‘true’ self came out!

My brothers ALWAYS blame the other guy!

Once my brother had his truck parked in a spot that said ‘No Parking.’ His truck was towed away! He blamed the city of New Orleans! He doesn’t hold himself accountable for anything!

My mom always felt like my brothers were mistreated too. She looks at me like, I have been fortunate in life, disregarding that I worked, paid my bills and taxes and behaved responsibly.

It does hurt to be treated unfairly by a parent.

It’s also disturbing when others don’t fully understand, acknowledge feelings or not showing any empathy by believing that I need my mom’s approval.

I am not looking for her approval. I gave up on that long ago.

It would have been nice to be seen for who I am and appreciated, nothing more than that.

paul: Yes, your brother apparently doesn't have a problem accepting your dad's money. 🤔

Hard to tell if it's in our gene's or upbringing, or something else altogether. While your mom was taken out of the mix at some point, we had both parents, yet I can't tell you how many times I've said I think I got all the brains for the 3 of us, or at least the ability to USE them!

The smarts part is showing up again. I've taken the time, lots of it, to understand all the issues around distributing from the trust. So, email from OB says his acct is all set up and there'll be no capital gains! Sorry dude, the IRS isn't going to give you a pass on this. Either the trust pays (higher %) or we each pay (lower %), depending on how it's done. Doing it his way is going to give away a LOT of money to the IRS!!! The other has not responded to indicate what his plans are. I only found out today from the person handling the account that he's doing it the better way.

Also today, I get notice from the court that the estate request is missing a declination form. Both YB and I were named execs and I did NOT check the box indicating he was declining. Sadly there's no easy way to contact them (last call was over 30 min on hold to ask a simple Q!) Not sure why they now require this, but sent him email AND text asking him to say yea or nay. If nay, fill in the form and email it back to me. Text msgs to back it up, since he uses the excuse he doesn't see the notices! Someone with a smart phone AND an iWatch which notifies him, and he doesn't see these for a week or more? MAH-ROON! I also indicated via CAPS in the subject that this is time sensitive. No response, they schedule a hearing (no thanks!) or dismiss (ALSO no thanks!!!) I can only hope he declines and sends the form. Trying to get this done working with someone who doesn't get back to you, UGH!!!

For the most part we wouldn't have needed an Estate account, but there is the last stimulus check, refund for deposit on facility plus another for the interest on it, more to recoup from the first stimulus, the minimal left in the special SS account, etc. IF it was a $20 check, I would try depositing it (atty told me to just deposit these and not tell the bank she's passed!!! $400+/hour EC atty said this!!!) because the fee to open probate is $130. I know what's legal and what isn't. Depositing those checks would NOT be legal. Still can't believe he said that.

Not just smarts either. Personality differences are HUGE!

OB was abusive when we were kids. Sadly I missed the cues until too late that it wasn't really gone, it was lurking beneath the surface. He hasn't lived locally since going to college, so it wasn't apparent. Blames others, bad mouths everyone else, because they are all stupid, no matter what the issue is. I'm am GLAD he doesn't live around here!!! One time adult abuse was not welcome.

YB has always seemed a bit more easy-going, but getting responses from him became a chore and he has been verbally nasty to me several times. He also has it in his head that the facility did all the care for mom. Yes, physical care, but do you think they managed her income, the trust, file taxes, pickup up supplies, etc and keep all the paperwork needed? Do they keep track of her docs and appts? The list goes on. I had often asked how does he keep his job (he's an EE.) Well, 2019 he got FIRED! Not laid off, fired. He also left his wife at least 4 years ago and as of the last time I heard anything, he's done absolutely nothing about it, except move in with someone else. He does pay the bills, college money for the girls, etc, but he thinks he's going to keep ALL his money AND get half the house, etc. He's in for a RUDE awakening!! But, not_my_problem! I tried to explain to him, and warn him, but he's smarter than the average bear, dontcha know? So, I gave up. Long ago.

Can't wait for all the paperwork to be done, the funds distributed and move on, without either one of them!

Nature vs Nurture. Sometimes it isn't either... Who knows? You couldn't find 3 more siblings unalike than we three!

The taking responsibility issue - it's a big life lesson some just didn't learn isn't it?

Need, that car towed story.. but it's The City's fault LOL. That "It's not MY fault!" We call that a *bogan* attitude here. Not MY fault I spent all my dole money on rubbish before next dole day & now can't afford food. Not MY fault I didn't register my car & they are all b...s to fine me. Or not give me money etc. Big sigh.

Basically, Paul's Bro & Dad make me say "Oh Well". Bro is working hard but not enough cash for his liking. Oh well. Dad is still wanting visits & will be disappointed. Oh well.

What I wouldn't ignore is if I suspected actual financial abuse. But as Dad has given his card... Oh well.

Beatty,

Yeah, when my brothers speak, I find it extremely difficult to contain my laughter! 😆

Actually, there were times that they DESERVED to be laughed at, like that time!

GEEEEEEZ! If a person parks in a ‘NO PARKING’ zone and gets towed away, it’s THEIR fault, NOT the CITY’S fault! I definitely shook my head at his lack of logic!

Amazing how one-directional the elderly can get. The whole Covid thing dad is "locked up" here at my home. I took driving privileges away from him (our car) as he can barely walk unless food is involved. I work at home. We have a small remodel project going on in my office/basement/entry for the house/ storage/ everything else/ to make the coat and shoe area more pleasant. So some saw work and normal construction noise. No, I did not ask dad to help (Retired carpenter) I'm sure it's been driving him crazy. Anyway after a few days of fitting it in between running my business and everything else. Dad comes down to "inspect" what I am doing, said a nice thing about it, OK, then proceeds to say he needs to mail a letter. I tell him I am going to the post office today. "No I need to walk".... the man hasn't moved for like a week except for food and bathroom and bed and now he needs to go outside. First I have to move the furniture I moved to fix what I am doing to get his coat out. Then I need to clean the garage area of sawdust he will walk through and then bring it back upstairs, then opens the garage door where I have my work area set up and just started to get to a point my hands weren't freezing while running the saws. Did I mention it's 18 degrees outside? Nope, no putting me out in any way shape, or form! Walks down the end of the driveway and back, then comes back in, "did you close the garage door"? "No, you said you were going out so I left it open".................... I'm here sitting at my desk while the temperature plummets in my basement office/garage under entry. No awareness for anyone else. But he did mail his letter............. That noise? It's my head banging against my desk...... I do have to remember there are people worse off, it's just a challenge day to day.

Im always amazed too by how brother and Dad always have this thing that everyone is against them and its all so unfair. Like the parking ticket you mention..... that'd be those two too.

Dad has so many pre- concieved ideas in his head its just weird. He manages to be sexist, racist, homophobic, old fashioned, all in one go!

Theres a TV program on in the uk recently about AIDS in the 80s. Its a story about a group of gay men, how badly they were treated by society and they're families. Its really sad. Got me thinking how Dad would have reacted if I was gay - might be easier because he'd have disowned me years ago!

Paul,

That’s my brother too.

I wonder how my brother would have reacted if my nephews were gay.

My nephews NEVER spoke to their dad about anything growing up. They still don’t discuss any problems with him.

He never allowed them to voice an opinion that was different from his. It was his way or nothing!

He would have never understood and most definitely would have disowned them. It is incredibly sad.

Ah yes. It is crazy-making. You need to take care of yourself first or you won’t be much good to anyone and you need to have a better life. I also think the elderly with dementia tend to be very anxious and afraid of being abandoned. Depending on their premorbid personality, they may be prone to manipulating by using guilt. And that guilt provoking makes us angry and wish to abandon them. This is the vicious cycle. So I wonder if in your case a low dose anti-anxiety medication might help. Ask the doctor.

Kathleen,

Paul’s dad won’t take meds! So many people who could benefit from meds will never be open to taking them. They don’t believe in them.

Kathleen,

In addition to NeedHelpWithMom's comment, the dad here doesn't have dementia, per all observations by paul AND his doctors - he's just a crotchety grumpy opinionated somewhat ignorant selfish person who only thinks about himself. Lonely? Perhaps. But even when paul does visit, it's all complaints, doesn't want the grandchildren anywhere near. It really isn't a visit, just an in-person gripe and/or demand session!

Given this thread has over 2k comments over almost 2 years now, there'd be no way someone new to the thread would be able to know this! Even the meds he has demanded aren't taken (Oh he's ill, docs give Rx and he doesn't take them.) The docs have gotten wise to this as well, and won't jump and run to his place any more, they now request he comes in (it isn't very far from his place and he has a "scooter" to get him there, but doesn't use it.) Suddenly there's no issue.

All his demands and "needs" are just excuses to force paul to bend to his will. He even went so far as to self-inflict a minor wound to induce paul's sympathy and get him to come. He will say he's out of food (he isn't), but refuses to allow delivery, paul MUST drop everything and come immediately. Offer to deliver, suddenly he's fine, he will make do. He gets some kind of letter in the mail and whatever it might be, it becomes a national emergency and *MUST* be dealt with NOW, in person! The list is endless. Even outings became unbearable, when he complains about every nickel charged, all is overcharged, doesn't want to pay for a separate room, it's an overcharge, doesn't enjoy the outing, just more reasons to complain!

It is almost comical at times (not so much for the person dealing with it!)

You are correct that paul needs to take care of himself and his family first. He's been pushing back mainly for that reason, per our suggestions. One needs to maintain one's sanity!! Dad pretty much has all his needs met, he just fabricates needs to make paul do what HE wants him to do.

tgengine;

They say patience is a virtue... dementia makes one want to be vile and wicked sometimes!

"That noise? It's my head banging against my desk...... I do have to remember there are people worse off, it's just a challenge day to day."

Go easy on that poor desk - it didn't do anything!

Yes, oftentimes what seems like life-sucking behavior pales in comparison to what others deal with! Doesn't make it any easier, but we can try to be more grateful that what we deal with isn't worse!

Both my brothers, on first learning how much MC cost, said for that kind of money, they'd take mom in! Sure they would, they didn't have a clue what dementia could lead to or even what her current "state" was. One did get a small taste of it. After trying to bring in aides, just 1 hr/day to get her used to it, failed (refused to let them in), I made plans to find a place for her and facilitate the move. I left the move up to the bros. Just before the move was to happen, she managed to "bruise" her leg. Turned out to be cellulitis, needed wound care and antibiotics, which delayed the move a few days. So, OB was there for the move and had to deal with this. Removes the bandaging, cleans it and puts new bandaging on (more than a band-aid.) She immediately rips it off and says she needs a new one! Mind you, this is a man with almost ZERO patience... Then the antibiotics resulted in some lower GI upset... lucky for him, in the kitchen... Then she would refuse to eat food he put out, and he would rudely DEMAND she eat the f'n stuff! Can you just imagine THIS person taking her in, full time? Neither would qualify for a care-giver, for different reasons. I knew physically I couldn't do it. She got along quite well in the MC place. Can't say that she loved it, but they loved her and enjoyed having her there. Most of the time she was well behaved (she had her moments!)

Hang in there (and be grateful he only gave his opinion of your work, rather than tried to "help", esp when you weren't looking!!)

Cases of Covid are down in wales last few weeks. Theres talk of lockdown being lifted. I'm the only person in wales who'll be sorry to hear this!

"I'm the only person in wales who'll be sorry to hear this!"

You never know, there could be a multitude of others wearing shoes like yours!

At least you'll have a few of us feeling sorry for you as well...

Well... with an RN for a wife & 2 kids your family would have quite a few close contacts each week. Very risky to go visiting an 80+ yr old...

Way safer over the phone 😉

Beatty - Dad plays dull when you point that out to him. As per usual.....

Got to admit, really have not missed seeing him at all....

paul: "Playing dull" is rich.