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Margaret,

Heres the story with brother if you're interested.

Lived with a lady (she was ok) and they had two kids. They split up - dunno why or what the deal was. I since found out part of the story when I bumped into her a few years ago.

She moved back to her hometown (about 30 miles away) and, apparently, brother visited a few times, it got less and less, he let the kids down etc. She by this time met someone else, she hadnt heard from brother for months and they moved house.

My brother, as he does, had a 6 month twitch and realised they'd moved. Put it all over facebook, how his ex had stolen his kids etc etc. Dad asked me to help him. I found out you could go through the court and she'd pretty much have to reveal where they lived - cost £200. Didn't bother - too expensive. And Dad agreed with him! (Bear in mind he'd be out two nights a week drinking putting away easily close to £100 each night on alcohol).

Then hes with someone else. Had another kid. They split up. Again who knows.
Again, he saw the kid for a bit, let her down etc etc All got a bit unfriendly.
Now this ex apparently had a bit of a drink problem and I dont know the full story but Social Services called him and asked him to take his daughter for a few months (because of the problems the mum had). He refused and told them to put her into a home. (I remember having a massive argument with Dad because I was disgusted at this but Dad agreed with him - "how can he have her when hes got to go to work"). At the time my wife wanted us to have our niece but in the end she did go to live with her gran....

Brother is now with someone else. Recently married. Doesn't see any of his kids.

BUT, you still get the 6 monthly rant on facebook about how its so unfair, he can't even see his own kids etc etc.

One of lifes losers is my brother and I'm ashamed of them both....
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Beatty - oh yes thats his best leverage hes not letting that one go!

He is SUPREMELY stubborn though and stuck in his ways... And he is also the most tight-fisted person you will ever meet.

He has set ideas what his sons should do for him and you have to put him top of the list. He religiously tries to spend no money and likes to see it in his bank account (current count about £40-50K I think).

Stubborn, won't listen to anyone, and, to be honest, is also one of the most unflexible, selfish and unintelligent people you will ever meet.

No chance of him ever paying for any sort of care, or a care home.
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NeedHelp- yeh I need to tune him out. Its like speaking to someone on a different planet.

But yes my brother is Dad. Dad does not come close to understanding my world at all nor is he interested. I often think its still 1955 in my Dads head too.

Thanks for the congrats - not till june mind. You never know!
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Paul,

Your dad relates to your brother. He even feels sorry for him.

Your brother is the one that followed his example.

You were smart and created your own path. Good for you!

You are the one that has a fabulous wife and family. They missed out on that.

You may not hear ‘Happy Anniversary’ from your dad.

Wishing you a wonderfully happy anniversary!

25 years of marriage is a big deal! Happy Anniversary! 👍🥂💞🍻🍸🍷🍰🍨🍹🍺
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I’m amazed to read that dear brother now wants to see the kids he walked out on! What happened?
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Paul, I may miss the mark here.. I do feel your Dad is being stubborn over the grocery delivery. He COULD get deliveries !! But then he'd lose his leverage to lure you there...

Three of my relatives have swapped to deliveries through this time. No fuss. Wanted to save their families the bother.

I do think your Dad could be fearful & lonely. That is quite understandable, especially now. But I also think he would be fearful & lonely even if you lived with him + just as demanding. All day he'd be needy, ill, wanting stuff done. To keep you orbiting him all day.

I would seriously suggest to him to ask his council for a aged needs assessment & for him to get regular services in to help in. That if he needs help to shop, cook, clean, whatever, he should get this REGULAR help. That you WORK & you cannot now (in the pandemic) or later EVER be his maid/man-servant. Make that clear. I am your SON.

"If you need a maid, get one.
If you are ill, call your Doctor. If you don't want to live alone anymore, that's OK! Move to an Old Age Home".

If his conversation can be on repeat - so can yours 😅
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Beatty,

Geeeeeez! It took me awhile to do so but I finally did it. Hahaha 🤣, ask the good people on this forum how long it took me to finally process it all?

It was a long time! This forum and my therapist pounded it into my head. I’m grateful that no one gave up on me. 😊
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I'm so glad you found on peace Need. Hard won but you explain the process so well. Tune out & let it go. Breathe in, breathe out. Ahhh.
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Paul,

I am sure that you don’t expect your dad to change at this point in time.

My mom’s attitude towards my brothers is the same as your dad’s attitude towards your brother.

For my own sanity I had to learn to tune it out. You know as well as I that we can never convince them of anything so let it go.

Just don’t respond to your dad’s statements. Will he get mad? Maybe, but he will find something to be mad about no matter what, so why respond to his foolishness?

I found peace when I surrendered to the fact that I was completely powerless in convincing my mom of anything.

Eventually, I lost the desire to convince her of reality. I figured that if she wanted to live in her delusional world, I would allow her to do so without my input. The end result changed my outlook.

I found peace and contentment in my life. Her life is the same as it will always be.

We have no control over their attitude towards others (our brothers) but we have 100 percent control over our reaction to it.

Don’t give your dad any ammunition to argue with. Of course you don’t agree with him.

I don’t agree with most of what my mom says but I don’t express those feelings to her anymore.

I speak about neutral topics only. If she brings up my brothers I either acknowledge her feelings or I give no response. She moves on to another topic because she has nothing to contradict me with.

Life became more pleasant for me when I didn’t fuel the fire.
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Talking to him on the phone is "challenging" at the moment too.

I can pretty much predict every phone call. 10 mins of him telling me how ill he is, 10 mins of telling me how bad my brothers new job is, 10 mins of him trying to convince me that since "I'm his carer" (no im not!) Im ok to break covid lockdown rules. Every conversation the same.

The brother thing is doing my nut. He never asks me how my job is fine but he seems obsessed with how hard my brother has got it and how its so unfair that his pay is so poor, and hes working outside in the filth and the cold and its hard work blah blah blah. Of course, I'm in my warm house working from home, getting paid well....... Jeez so what? I listened in school he skived off whenever he could.....

I dread the next installment of "its so unfair he doesn't get to see his kids". I just sigh - I've got two lovely kids, 25th wedding anniversary this year. Brother flitted from partner to partner, dropping kids and leaving them each time he moved on pretty much. Then expects it all years later.

You make you're choices in life, he made his, I made mine. Deal with it.
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No change with Dad at the moment. Constant fight reminding him that I can't travel to him - he seems to think the rules don't apply to him.

But thats Dad all over. He thinks hes 100 times iller than he actually is. Hes convinced hes going to starve even though he gets meals on wheel and brother does shopping for him. (and hes still turning down food delivery offers).

Same old game......
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My pet hate is uncared for feet. Specifically when discovering an elder with overgrown toenails, blisters, open sores, black toes & my least favourite, black gumph between the toes. It's so sad when they just cannot reach their feet but don't ask for help.
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Barb, I am so sorry about your Grandma. I'm sure your Aunt did a good job but sometimes little accidents happen. Just so awful that the consequences were so dire.
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Paul: That mental image of dad in shower. No way! Edit: that was a might harsh of me and I am sorry. Poor dad.
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Barb: Yikes! A preventable death. Poor grandma.
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A cautionary tale aboit toenails:

Grandma lived with us. A nurse was paid to give Gma a bath once a week and Gma's other daughter (my aunt) came to "do her feet" once a month.

Aunt nicked a corner of Gma's toe: it became infected and due to poor circulation in her legs (complicated by pneumonia (Flu brought home by my younger brother), Gma died a fairly gruesome death from gangrene.

Moral: Get your elder's feet cared for by a podiatrist.
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Need,
"It would be a nightmare for you or your brother to care for him". You bet.

But Dad will not care about that! A little thing like OTHER peoples' inconvenience, hardship, limits. Oh no. He will be insisting Paul or Bro do it to his last gasping breath.

The toenail issue crossed my mind as a litmus test. My family really did not care that this was not for me - they just expect expect expect everything they need I will mop up.

I met someone yesterday who refused rehab ("I don't want that"). Who will help you wash, get dressed, do your toenails I asked? "Oh my Husband. My friends. I have a lot of friends. My DIL. They will do everything". Right. But you need help at the toilet I asked? "Oh but I don't want rehab so they will have to help me". The world will turn & do as I want was her attitude.

Paul. You are not alone out there. These bossy/needy folk are everywhere.
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Paul,

It’s getting more difficult for your dad to manage on his own.

He’s crying out for help. He has never been a pleasant person. It would be a nightmare for you or your brother to care for him.

He needs to be in a care home. Can you bring this us to him as factually and calmly as you can?

I know that you and your brother aren’t close but if he would get on board too it would help. Try by telling him that dad is needing additional help and that it would be best if he lived in a care home. Write a note to him and mail it if you can’t stomach speaking to him.

Good luck with this situation.

We all vent about issues but at some point actions must be taken to remedy the problems that are occurring and making us miserable.
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Beatty - now he does get someone to come in to do this. And moans it costs money lol.

Oh yes hes got lots of things lined up every time. I know this.

His all time classic was when we were away in a hotel that once. And he peed himself. He got in the shower and wanted me to wash him.....

Ewwww. No way. You manage every single day of the year without me (ok once a week - hes not the cleanest) there is NO WAY.
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Here's a weird & wacky questions for you today. Who cuts Dad's toenails?

I found when I was being hinted at/pressured to visit my sister more, I did get that guilt: the yeah I should visit more etc.

But then it was pointed out she only had her toenails done professionally (at pensioner subsidised cost) at xx frequency & they probably needed attention inbetween times. Right. And? She didn't want to pay for extra services.

Just what the Dickens are you hinting at now???

Any assumptions that my *friendly visiting* was valued went out the window. Another hook to lure in a maid.

Paul, does Dad still have little jobs lined up for you when you visit? Little jobs that he has other options for? But keeps him *needy* & you his *fixer* where he wants you both to be?

SO over this fishing game.
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polar - well it often seems like a "duty" visit more than anything. I often get the impression he wants me there because I "should" visit him more than anything....

Not taken my daughter for almost a year now. He is not interested, just wants me to visit him.
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Paul, I don't remember if you mentioned whether your dad enjoys your company when you visit. Does he? I know you mentioned he totally ignores your daughter.

About MIL, good for your wife to be firm with her mother. I bet her patience is wearing thin. And I agree with you about your dad and MIL becoming needy.
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Paul, you know this is all about CONTROL. Stay home and stay safe, the oldies are all taken care of and of course anytime now they will get the vaccine, whereas we will have to wait a while longer and so will be “on risk” every time we go and see them.
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MIL update as well.

Wife has REALLY put her foot down here and it seems to be working. Shes actually started to look after herself a little better.

Shes still got skin like a rhino and will pretty much try it on but wife seems to have it all under control.

I don't know what we've done to deserve parents like this to be honest. All we both want is nice parents who act like parents, and not needy toddlers.
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Still in lockdown level 4 here in wales. Only food shops open, schools closed, no travel.

Still doesn't stop Dad asking every single time I speak to him "when am I visiting?". Its like a broken record now. He seems to think because hes "elderly" the rules don't apply.

Strictly speaking a person who lives on their own, is allowed to see ONE other family. If he sees me brother, he can't see me - I've explained this to him.

BUT, for some reason, he seems to think hes "in need of care". He isn't.

Hes moaning about food as the excuse again. Its a bit unfair that hes doing this.

He says hes running out of food so I said:-

1. Isn't brother still visiting then to get you food? ("Yes, but.....")
2. I can get it delivered for you? ("I don't want food delivered")

Hes not starving. Meal on wheels are coming still. Brother is getting him food. Hes refused to let me get it delivered. Yet he expects me to break the law! No way.

To be honest, I probably would visit now and again even if I'm not supposed to but I'm sick of him pushing it. Chances are slim that I'd get pulled by the police who'd decide my reason for travel was not good enough but still...
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Apparently genome matching tells you where that strain is from 🤔.

"Authorities worried UK strain of COVID-19 may be so infectious it broke through normal quarantine protocols.

Woman infected with UK strain has 79 close contacts and had 689 "movements" in the community".

Gosh, what a busy gal! I'm wondering how she got time to work... But she was travelling to work by train.

Reminds me of my first winter in London - I got so many colds & chest infections. The GP asked if I took the tube & said "Well what do you expect? Sitting jammed together with all those people & all their germs". Thanks Doc.
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About the new strain of virus, could it be possible that the new strain didn't arrive from somewhere else, but was naturally mutated inhouse?
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Well the UK mutant strain has now arrived upon our shores too...
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Yeh I'll tell Dad something and he will "forget" I said it and try again a week later.....

Hes doing it at the moment. No I cant visit because we're in lockdown again...
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"How will you apply your conclusions to your dear Dad?"

MIL and Dad react differently.

MIL, when TOLD this is what she will be doing doesn't like it, but clams up and "does it". She is a bit more compliant, if that's the right word to use. She didn't put up a fight anyway. Complained some, voiced some of how she wants it to be, but didn't really argue it or make a big stink.

Dad, on the other hand, argues anything he is TOLD will be done and/or just doesn't listen. Paul also has no BIL to play the "heavy", but even if he did, I doubt Dad is going to buckle to anyone.

He can try, never say never, but I wouldn't be holding my breath. State how it will be all you want, likely a waste of time, BUT stick to what you say will be done, whether he moans, demands, grumbles or tries to argue. Plans, supplies and visits will be on Paul's terms, not dad's. Just a lot more grousing.
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