It's been a hard week....

I was thinking again about “"No I want you to phone me every day", with answer just “Do you Dad?”

It’s the right approach in lots of cases – acknowledging that you have heard, making it clear that you know it’s what DAD wants, and refusing an argument to justify your own position. Bringing food, visiting, looking at bills etc etc…. If he tries again, ‘well what are you going to do?’ etc, the answer is either silence or repeat ‘I know that’s what you want’.

Beatty:

"Now I'm wondering... does he ever call?"

My recollection is that yes indeed he DID call and all too often with his usual demands!

polarbear:

I fully understand that one size doesn't fit all (implied in my comment.) Clearly more remote locations have had less impact (AK*, HI, WY have the lowest number of deaths, under 30, and there are others that also don't have high numbers.) However, lack of top leadership (YOU said Trump, not me! The whole top admin should set an example for all) has led to this hodge-podge scenario. *Despite there have only been 18 deaths in AK so far and less than 2000 reported cases, there is an article from yesterday where venues are ASKING for mandates! (https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2020/07/20/alaska-restaurant-industry-group-calls-on-governor-to-impose-new-mandates-to-head-off-a-second-shutdown/)

I also know that not everyone is going to follow any "rules" or suggested ways to mitigate, but given that many governors and other leaders have subscribed to the "hoax" and did not "lead" or rather lead based on their own misguided "allegiance" , here we are. If they were ALL more supportive of the mask and distancing, and could add contact tracing (another huge issue here, as many won't comply), the rampant new surges in cases might have been avoided. Despite saying that, it does boil down to Americans themselves, and their inability to know the difference between doing something for the safety and health of all vs their own individual freedoms. Suggestions to wear seat belts back in the day were also reviled, despised, and ignored, being another "infringement" on their "freedom." Although now it is mostly law to wear them, ever see how many don't?

Mandate? No. Even if there were any from the top administration, they wouldn't be followed by all, but it *might* have helped, esp if local governments would follow suit.

"So. Why Federal mandate? A one size fits all of 50 states? No. The governors of each state should decide for his/her own state based on their situation."

Other countries also have central hubs for travel, cities with denser populations, rural areas with less population, but they have managed to gain some control over everything. We aren't unique there. It is more difficult here as you can't shut down state borders, but good leadership at all levels could have helped. If you look at the map for NH cases, clearly there is bleed over from MA (shoppers, commuters, etc.) The bulk of cases here are located in this "belt" and more congested areas there. In the US it's been a free for all in too many cases. Despite recommendations before "reopening", the suggestions were more or less ignored, and now we see the results.

Lead by example, from the top. "That's just a liberal talking point to blame the Fed, meaning Trump." I didn't blame him, but he HAS played a part in those governors and other "politicians" ignoring the science and common sense. There's no stopping this virus, it is going to continue to infect others, but it could have been better contained. Instead we have rising cases in many places, in particular those that followed the "leader." He isn't to blame for the virus happening, but he and the top administration have contributed to this mess we're in now. How many times has he said OPEN UP NOW? Same for schools - it CAN'T be the same for every school, but he insists they WILL all open or be punished! Even if the more local governments had listened to disease experts (Birx played a part in dispensing misleading info too!) AND looked to how other countries have been able to dampen the effect, we might have been better off and been able to sensibly open the economy sooner. Quite honestly, I really don't understand how opening massage parlors, hair dressers, gyms and the like really would "help" the economy that much. Given that these require more intimate contact, it doesn't make sense to me. Sure, it would help those venues, but is the whole US economy based on these? I would hope not.

Anyway, again I don't propose "mandates" or a one-size-fits-all, just some COMMON SENSE!!!

Or maybe, hey Dad you could call ME!

Now I'm wondering... does he ever call? Or just demand others call him... Hmmm.

Oh silly me! Calls would cost HIM money 😁 especially if calling a mobile phone.

My Bossy SIL would demand I call her. See if you can move XYZ date/time/place & call me. No I can't - I'm telling you now. So call me when you know. I do know. I can't. So you'll call me back? No. So you'll call me? OMG

This is why I don't speak to her by phone anymore. Ever. Just didn't listen, wouldn't accept my words. I don't know if it was intentional or not - maybe a strategy to get her own way? Whatever it was that game wasted my time so I decide not to play.

So you'll call everyday? No. Don't expect that. I'll call when I can.

From Margaret:
Dad - "No I want you to phone me every day"
Better reply just “Do you Dad?” End of conversation.

I LOVE IT 🌟🌟🌟

Disgusted, thank you, from the bottom of my heart.

For decades I have been able to make no sense at all of that what is a man etc line. Oh! NAUGHT! I thought he was singing "not" - and that I was just having trouble with a complicated bit of syntax. Bless you.

Every state, every county, even very city is different in their situation with respect to the virus.

New York CITY was hard hit initially because it is the travel hub to the U.S. for all the people coming from Europe many of whom were infected. New York CITY also is an extremely crowded place with subways and trains packed with people. Apartments and high rises with many people living in small spaces.

In Texas, people from Mexico are flooding the hospitals near the border causing over capacity of hospital beds and ICU beds and shortage in ventulators.

Situations in NY and TX don't exist in many other states. Even in the same state, condition varies from county to county and city to city. I read Alaska has very very few cases.

So. Why Federal mandate? A one size fits all of 50 states? No. The governors of each state should decide for his/her own state based on their situation.

Oregon is suing the Fed for being there and arresting the antifas. San Francisco claims it doesn't have to cooperate with the Fed to turn over criminals. So, these states think they don't have to listen or follow Fed rules . Then why would they want Federal mandate? They wouldn't. That's just a liberal talking point to blame the Fed, meaning Trump.

MargaretMcKen - agreed this is all rather silly. There is no real federal game plan in the US. Guidelines, sure, but nothing is mandated and too much is either not stressed/disseminated well enough, rules are "invading my rights", it's a hoax or "I'm fine, I don't need to worry, I'm healthy, etc." Even in states or cities that have mandated wearing masks when in stores, around others not in your family, etc, it isn't enforced (other than hysterical people lambasting those who don't or vice versa!) Worse, the gov'nr in GA OVERRULED any local mandates!

Other countries and their citizens have been more compliant and it has helped. Sure, there are some scofflaws elsewhere, but not like in the US. Here? Pshaw. Bad enough they refuse to "help" the situation, but then to man armed protests, and include that they are protecting their gun rights? WTF??? What does a request to wear a mask or keep your distance from non-family members have to do with the 2nd amendment (which they distort to hell and back anyway)?

What those who refuse to believe or comply don't get is that simply wearing that mask and keeping your distance could have reduced infections to a manageable level and allowed reopening the economy sooner and more fully. Because they haven't (have you seen videos of those in gov't who don't push any restrictions, even suggested ones, saying "We're not NYC"?) It clearly hit major cities and densely populated areas harder first, but that doesn't mean it won't spread elsewhere! I am pretty sure if someone dug up stats, any infection (flu, cold, etc) could be shown to hit the same way. Before modern transportation, the spread to less densely populated areas would be reduced, but now? You can be in another country in hours, not weeks, and catch/bring ANYTHING back. I've been saying for years that people are becoming stupider by the day. The internet and social media contributes in another way, spreading rumors, conspiracies, etc. So, gullible people suck this up and here we are! SMDH...

It doesn’t seem very sensible. The test isn’t a vaccine, you can test negative and get it the next day (or by the time you get the test results). Here when the need was very high, you had to have a doctor’s referral to get a test, then later it dropped to a requirement for some symptoms or contact with a known case. And it isn’t at all clear what happens if the test is positive. A positive test doesn’t mean hospital admission. Is self-isolation monitored? It does seem as though in some places the information about what to do and why, isn’t all that clear or helpful.

"...long queues of people to get into WDW..." Bad enough there,but have you seen the pix of cars and people waiting in lines for a test? One article said the wait (I think it was in AZ) was 12 hours! If I had no symptoms, I wouldn't bother. Some results are many days, sometimes over a week - by then you would know if you were in trouble!

On our news there was a photo of long queues of people to get into WDW, not social distancing or wearing masks, queue blockage apparently caused by staff at the entrance requiring hand sanitiser use and selling masks.

Appears part of the FL problem does fall back to residents and tourists, esp the younger ones - partying in the streets of Miami and elsewhere (open containers!) and "private" parties. Even if they close all the restaurants and bars, people are still partying in places where no one can control it - homes, mansions, even on boats!

Officials (esp at state level) didn't help, not taking a firm stand before it got this bad - Tis 'merica, your freedoms ring loudest first, eh? The idiots who scream their rights are being trampled when ordered or even simply asked to wear a mask - it is such a simple thing to ask of anyone and if it even cuts transmission in half, we'd be better off... similar (but not as bad) behavior when seat belts were being encouraged and then required by law. Sorry, but that coffin seems a lot more restrictive than any seat belt or simple mask. Belt only worn when driving, mask only worn when in closer contact in stores, etc. Once outside, take it off! Geez. You'd think it was duct tape or a straight jacket which you can take off ever!

The whole school thing gets me too... Sure, I'd want to know that my kids would be protected as best they can, but have ANY of these morons demanding we open schools full time considered all the OTHER people involved in schools? I hear about teachers (yes, some are older and need protections), but what about admin staff, kitchen/cafeteria help, bus drivers, custodians??? A lot of them are definitely older and need to be considered too! Kids, despite the "reassurances" that they aren't spreading this virus (are they 100% sure?), spread germs like crazy, esp the younger ones - then not only school staff, but elders at home they come into contact with? All the idiot politicians who say elders are the most vulnerable and should give up life for the economy... Have they even considered the repercussions if this spreads like wildfire in schools, takes them down including many teachers if not kids - they are the FUTURE those idiot politicians are "crying" about when they say reopen the economy, save 'merica! (really it is probably more about their own wallets being diminished due to the economy - they seem to be very selfish people.) Forget defund the police - how's about we defund most of those in govt!

(final thought - Abraham Lincoln was mostly self-taught, yet look where he ended up! Given his remote location when growing up, lack of real schools, access to materials, etc, think how much more kids today can learn and teach themselves with access to the internet - of course with guidance, as there is a lot of crap out there too! While socializing is also a good thing, most learning could be done at home - makes it hard for working moms though, esp once more employment opens up.)

FL G'na is an idiot... still maintaining this sudden surge is just a "blip"!

Searching the "news" about WDW and bars, several articles talk about FL and TX closing bars, but they are from 3 weeks ago! And more recently (7/3) the "rules" were amended, so some bars can be open... Appears there are no state rules about masks (GA g'na made executive order that overrides local rules for masks!!! Talk about stoooopid!) News for restaurants and malls are really old. I saw one about gyms - fully open? Sure, I will be the most jacked dead person in the morgue! Only in FL statements clearly apply... considering it is usually called God's Little Waiting Room due to the high number of elders who live there, one would think those in charge might have some sense... but as we all know, that isn't common!

If anyone wants to see it, the graphs (scroll down) in this link really tell it all:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/florida/

Would make for a nice water slide or ski slope, but for cases/deaths? EEEK!

"I've told my wife I'm never being like that."
Never say never... my mother was always talking about AL, until dementia came along, then she wouldn't want to be caught dead in one of THOSE places! So long as you retain your mental faculties, you can avoid being like him (I SWORE never to be like my parents with my kids! I am VERY different than my mother and mostly different than my father too.)

"I want to die on my 100th birthday of a heart attack brought on by the 2 topless strippers sat on my knee!" HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! May your fondest wished come true!

With it still so bad in Florida, is there any talk of the theme parks closing again?

Are bars/restuarants and malls still open?

disgusted - yes I remember a few years ago when brothers wife was offering to be his carer (she wanted the money!) and he was so pleased because he said he needed a carer.

I thought about it then and the same applies now. He has ZERO needs that he can't meet himself at the moment. He can cook, wash, use the toilet, dress himself, get around his flat. He can even get out and about on his scooter so he could do his own shopping (or of course get it delivered).

Its all WANTS and laziness with him.

Prime example this week. He takes warfarin so has to have blood checked.

Hes too lazy to ride in his scooter 500 yards to the doctors surgery and insists the nurse visits. So he stays in all day to wait and then moans when she turns up late. Then he stays in all day next day for the surgery to call with his results. (Cant be bothered to learn how to use a mobile phone).

He could ride his scooter any time during the day, go to the surgery, he could go to the betting shop on his way home. Next day he could go our again and take his mobile phone with them so he doesnt miss the call.

It just seems to obvious to me. BUT, no, he'd rather wait for someone else to do it for him, then moan hes stuck in, and moan he can't put a bet on. Unreal.

I've told my wife I'm never being like that. I want to die on my 100th birthday of a heart attack brought on by the 2 topless strippers sat on my knee!

Usual thing will happen. Hes said he wants me to phone him every day.

I won't of course. I'll ring him maybe twice a week. He'll probably try again on one phone but I'll ignore him. When I come back I'll have phoned him maybe three times.

When I come back he won't even mention it again. He always does this. He tried things, they fail, he lets it go and moves onto the next thing. He knows pushing it too far and causing an argument is no good for him.

Yes I agree its amazing how he thinks he can tell me to do something....

"...so glad you are not in Florida, really difficult news today."

Total daily new cases are still crazy high! The number of deaths in Orange county (home of Orlando) is currently 102, not so bad, BUT sorting by number of new cases, they are 3rd highest today! Even better, who knows what numbers we will be seeing now that all have to report to HHS instead of CDC... Pay no attention to the boob behind the green screen....

As for dad's retort, one we always liked to use was "How does it feel to want?" Of course that might be a bit rude for your dad - friends, co-workers, other family maybe...

Another was to say that's what you WANT, but ask what is it that they really NEED.

"What is the difference between a need and a want?

Summary:
1. Wants and needs are economic terminologies.
2. A need is something that is necessary for a person to survive. On the other hand, a want refers to something that a person desires, either right now or in the future.
3. Wants are desires that are optional, meaning that you will still be able to go on living, even if the want is not met. On the other hand, if a particular need is not met, it could lead to a person suffering from illness, or even death.

In the same article, it says:
"In order to know whether what you desire for is a want or a need, is to basically ask one fundamental question: “Have you been able to survive without this?” If your answer is ‘yes’, then what you desire for is a want, no matter how much you crave for it right now."

As noted in a previous comment, replying to him when he says things like he'll worry, he can't sleep, it'll kill him, ask how is it that he is still alive, since EVERY previous trip was also going to kill him? Is he a SUPER cat, with 900 lives? I still think it is best NOT to mention your plans, then like others said, you talk about your trip AFTER the fact, when you are visiting (if at all) and share some nice pics.

So, by definition AND his own words, he WANTS, which are OPTIONAL, and won't kill you if you don't get what you want... Wasn't it the Rolling Stones that said You can't always get what you want... but you always get what you need?

Or, to add to Margaret's suggestion:

"Do you Dad? Sure, okay, whatever." Then you do YOUR thing. What's he going to do if you don't call, send the coppers?

Slightly different, but when my daughter was 12-13, as we were going inside I heard my mother tell her that she's old enough now, she should start acting like a lady... Errrg. Anytime someone refers to me as a "lady", I correct them and say just ask my mother, she'll tell you I'm not, despite all her efforts! I also list that under a 4-letter word! Right up there with nice, good, etc! So, anyway, later I told my daughter I heard what my mother said and that she should just yes her to death and BE YOURSELF! Similar in that you can mumble agreement just to shut him up, but follow YOUR plans, whether it be vacas, delivering supplies, visiting him, whatever. Sure dad. Whatever dad. Tune him out - by agreeing with whatever he says, he had no more to argue, but you just keep the fingers crossed behind your back, yes him to death and do whatever it is the 'Frank Sinatra way' (I did it MYYYYYYY WAAAAYYYYY!)

"For what is a man, what has he got?
If not himself then he has naught
To say the things he truly feels
And not the words of one who kneels
The record shows I took the blows
And did it my way
Yes, it was my way"

Hope you have a nice vaca, enjoy your kids, coddle your wife and be happy that dad and MIL are out of reach, so they can stay out of mind!

Paul, it goes better like this:

Dad - "No I want you to phone me every day"
Better reply just “Do you Dad?” End of conversation.

Have a good time, I’m so glad you are not in Florida, really difficult news today.

Paul - have a good vacation. Do ignore dad's over-the-top request.

From your conversation with him about phoning, he talks to you like a child, AND YOU TOLERATE IT. I suppose that is the way your relationship is with him all your life. It's very difficult to change. You can't change him, but you can change how you respond to his condescending way. And when you change, he will, too. But until then, this is how it is...

I think this is where a therapist can be most useful, helping you to change your relationship dynamic.

So, he said no. He can demand all he likes, Paul. It doesn't mean you have to do it.

You're not 12 anymore

CM - we had the conversation last night.....

I said "I won't phone you as soon as I get there, and, then I'll phone you every 2-3 days like I do now".

He said "No you can phone me every day".

Me - "No dad thats too much"
Dad - "No I want you to phone me every day"

See what I mean?

Have a good time!

Why lie to him? Why not decide what is a reasonable number of times to call him while you're away, and tell him when you will call?

You faff around playing psychological games and then blame him for the stress it causes you. Don't. Decide on a fair, reasonable course of action and pursue it.

ha ha you're all not wrong here. He seems to "forget" things when it suits him at the moment, but he will remember something from months ago if it suits him too.

Last visit before hols tonight anyway. And I will be telling him its difficult to call from spain too..... (Its not - you can even use you're standard mobile plan in europe last few years)

Paul - here in the US, there's a line that the TV police always use when they slap a pair of cuffs on someone: "...everything you say can and will be used against you in the court of law..." I suppose the real police do say that line, too, but I never had a chance to hear it. Haha. Hope I never will.

Your dad does that to you except he doesn't warn you ahead of time. Everything you say can and will be used against you for dad's own reasons and benefits.

Keep that in mind when you decide to share any information with him.

"I think I've got massively better over the years but theres still part of me that wishes I could have a normal conversation with him. Of course, its not going to happen."

Yes, this is the issue now. What maybe worked okay before is NOT going to work now. We all like to share our "good news", but it is a mistake to try that with him. The only good news to him is that you are at his beck and call. If you kowtow to HIS demands, it is good news. Anything else, woe is me, oh i'm so old, oh it's going to kill me, I can't sleep, I'll worry.

So, if you can avoid telling him (tell us or a friend/co-worker), it eliminates all that crap. It won't stop the demands, but that's a different issue we're working on, yes?

As for telling him just before vs anytime prior, I wouldn't even do that. What purpose does that serve other than to delay the inevitable? Just go before to ensure he has supplies and set the next visit/delivery date for after your trip. He has no need to know why that date is selected other than that is the date you can be there/deliver.

As with Beatty, I've learned what topics to not bring up (before mom's dementia started - there are other topics I now have to avoid because of that, and some that she brings up that have to be handled delicately or averted!) It was just asking for trouble. If she happened to bring them up (again, before dementia - after is a whole new brave world!), the response was kept to a minimum and subject changed!

((hugs))) When I would come home from school, I wanted to tell my Mother about my day. She wanted to discuss the washing. I got a 'washing Mother'. My daughter's boyfriend says he got a 'wine Mother'. It's what we were assigned. Could be better, sure, but could have been a lot worse.

It's horrible hiding things... but it's to protect him from his own worrying. Just tell him all about when you get back instead.

Yes I know what you are all mean. I am now trying to limit information I give him.

Not telling him I'm not in the country for two weeks. Hmmm. Not sure about that to be honest..... I guess in theory I could....

Its hard to do because, for years, I've told him everything. Now I try not to. Of course, only booked this holiday last week. Maybe, with hindsight, I should be telling him this weekend (off on sunday)

I think I've got massively better over the years but theres still part of me that wishes I could have a normal conversation with him. Of course, its not going to happen.

I get the feeling Dad will ask a question. "Are you going to Florida this year?" Then ask the question. Then ask & ask & ask & ask. Yes? Like a dog with a bone. I have a SIL like this. Just. Won't. Give. Up. Very OCD.

I imagine the Mighty Isis (remember her from 70's?)
"seemingly normal schoolteacher, who transforms into the Egyptian goddess when presented with crises a mere mortal cannot resolve". Yeah! (Won't be back with that name..)

So I imagine a superhero & a great shield of deflection;

I'm not sure. Don't know yet. It's all a bit up in the air. Have to wait & see. Still deciding.

Works for Mother too & have successfully retrained her (I think). She only asks about work now... there HAD been quite a lot of questions about our holiday 2 years ago (really cannot fathom why) so last year I got a bit more vague. "Maybe a week, somewhere close, not sure". I really have no idea why it seemed so important to her. What day we were leaving. What time. What time we would get there. These were not massively important to her before. My DH said it was just making conversation, but it was more than that. I could feel it. Over & over obsessing over what time we were leaving. So no more. Only good news. As Barb said *nothing without a happy ending*. Great way to put it!

It takes practice, especially if he is the inquisition! I can thank my OCD SIL for my training, ha! I have had to say to her (more than once) 'Enough. I am not talking about X anymore. Not. Talking". silence or "I don't want to talk about that at dinner/right now". Silence. Sometimes felt like swallowing a fistful of anti-anxiety meds myself to prepare. Thank goodness for wine.

"...you are either in total denial about his mental health, extremely child-like in your need to inform your daddy about everything you do or incredibly cruel to a fragile old man."

Or.... deep down inside you are a masochist! (...a person who enjoys an activity that appears to be painful or tedious.)

If you truly don't want to endure these "episodes", don't set them up.