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"So wonder how long before lockdown ends somewhat in the UK?"

Yesterday or the day before I read something about England to begin reducing restrictions, but that Wales is sticking to it longer. Haven't checked today. Update, from about 3 hours ago:
"The Welsh Government is considering relaxing lockdown so families from different households can meet outdoors, the Health Minister has confirmed."
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/lockdown-families-wales-meet-coronavirus-18276447

Hope your dad doesn't see this (not likely since he doesn't go online) OR hear it from his friends...

Time will tell who does it right (based on ALL countries, what they do and what happens as a result.) A lot of people here point to Sweden and say look, they didn't lock down, they are fine. Maybe... but stats show:

1) their death numbers are much higher than neighbors Finland and Norway
(Finland 301 deaths, D/M = 54
Norway 233 deaths, D/M = 43
Sweden 3,743 deaths, D/M = 371)
2) too many people just compare tests, neg vs pos, deaths, etc

The better comparison, in most cases, is to compare the number of deaths/M population, shown above. One has to be careful even with that - San Marino, considered a small "country" within Italy, tops the list at 1209/M, but only has just shy of 34k residents and has 655 total cases and 41 deaths.

Using the deaths/M pop, although we have more total deaths here in the US, Sweden is 8th on this list while the US is 13th (we have about 33x as many people here!) Some locations do skew the local US results, but overall our deaths/M pop is still lower than Sweden. Clearly more heavily populated areas, and esp those with less healthy people, are going to result in higher numbers, but sorry, I wouldn't want to be in Sweden! Although they have no government stipulations, many residents are wary and taking precautions. If everyone would listen and perhaps behave better, we wouldn't have to force lockdowns, but sadly this isn't the case in many locations. If they only impacted themselves, I'd say have at it, but their irresponsibility DOES impact others.

For better comparison for those in the US pointing to Sweden, Sweden is around the same size as California, but SW has about 27M fewer residents. Current # deaths are SW= 3,743 CA = 3,321, D/M = 371 for SW, 84 = CA. If the numbers were closer, to reflect the difference in population, it might make sense, but 4.5 x as many deaths in Sweden vs 4 x as many people living in CA... you do the math!

Everything is relative...
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Ranga: (noun) A person with red hair. Red-haired people in Australia have often attracted nicknames such as bluey, ginger, bloodnut, fantapants, and Annie. They are also popularly stereotyped as emotional, volatile, and quick to anger.


From blogs.crikey.com.au › fullysic › 2012/12/07 › ranga

bluey??? for a red-head? weird!

Love stereotypes (not.) My mother is/was good at those... Me, I judge others on their behavior, not what they look like or their ancestry.
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Paul:

"If the experts say its ok I'm going."

Hopefully you choose your "experts" wisely... just like Indy had to choose the Chalice wisely! We have ALL kinds of experts online, posting so much garbage!

I would advise being careful about FL (only singling that out because that is where you want to go.) They were not quick to adopt any kind of mitigation and the gov's ideas on what is "essential" plus when it is safe to open is questionable. Don't listen to the KumQuat!
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Margaret:

If any of the kum·quat cult here in the US can properly write something intelligent, they should sign it thus: “I am, my Lord, your Lordship’s grovelling worm”

(kumquat: an orange-like fruit related to the citruses, with an edible sweet rind and acid pulp. I agree with the "acid" pulp, the sweet rind depends on the day/minute!)

Also:
"I'm not keen on the intellectual value of chasing balls around a paddock!"
I've felt this way for a long time about golf.. Whack a ball, trek (on foot or in cart) to find it and get it into a little hole... sure. For other sports, add in some physical whacking as well (how much depends on the "sport"...)

"I think all ball games are a complete waste of time, particularly now when they are playing with TV cameras but empty stadiums, but I know that very few people agree with me."

Personally I haven't watched TV in about 25 years! Most of it IS a huge waste of time. I do watch some videos that are originally TV based, such as SGN (recently new, great for getting Some Good News during all the bad we get now!), Last Week Tonight, etc. The latter just did an episode on sports and how to deal with "reopening" them. At the end, he promotes (and even sponsored!) Jelle's Marble Runs! Check it out - good for a laugh at least!
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Are "rangas" red-heads?
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Yes Vic. My whole city are footy-mad but I'm missing the sport gene myself though. Actually no, I do like watching the tennis - always watch Aus Open & a bit of Wimbledon.

What you call football we call soccer. At my son's school the kids organised their own world cup on a nearby oval. Entire year level left the school grounds to attend on mass without any Teacher's permission. Hilarious! Teachers had to punish them all but were actually very impressed with the level of organisation it took. (Planned for weeks & kept secret). Ethnics vs Aussies. Before anyone is offended (I was what!!? when I heard!)... The kids chose their own side. Were Euros on both sides, most but not all Asians played for Aussie & the 'Rangas' all voted on mass to be Ethnic. Made me laugh. My son was included in the Rangas which he's never been proud of before, but now is. Sport, eh.
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Paul, I didn’t even know there was Rugby League and Rugby Union. Here it’s called the NRL, so perhaps League. It’s definitely a minority sport, mostly Eastern States. Australian Rules is top of the list in SA, WA and Victoria. It uses an oval ball, and it’s apparently quite similar to Irish football. The Irish come out for a game every few years, and nearly always get firmly trounced. Soccer became a lot bigger when we got migrants in the 50s and 60s from soccer countries. The teams were ethnically based, eg Croatia vs Serbia, and it got quite nasty. They had to break up the teams and change their names to deal with it. I think all ball games are a complete waste of time, particularly now when they are playing with TV cameras but empty stadiums, but I know that very few people agree with me. If someone throws a ball in my direction, I just dodge it!

Be careful if you are thinking of another Florida holiday. It doesn’t sound the greatest option, health wise. However the UK is hardly ‘safe’. You should have taken my advice and emigrated to SA. No new cases for weeks!
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So wonder how long before lockdown ends somewhat in the UK?

Can bet Dad is watching TV for that one.... Can't wait to visit him again ;-)
Yes I think I'm going to hell :-)

Hes now absolutely FULL TILT on trying to convince me NOT to leave the country this calendar year because "its not safe". I know some people feel this way but not me. If the experts say its ok I'm going.

He keeps on and on and on. Its nuts. I don't get why he thinks I'm going to change my mind because of what he thinks.....

Of course, as I've always said, 2-3 weeks away is 2-3 weeks he loses of me running around for him so thats part of his agenda.
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Beatty - seen it on TV once or twice. Looks weird.....

Victoria?
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Rugby? Nah mate, footy rules in my state! (Aussie rules).
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Margaret - Isn't rugby league way more popular than rugby union in Aus though?

Everyone else - yes there are two forms. Rugby League used to be pro with rugby union amateur. Games are slightly different. In the UK, league is popular in northern england. Very little in wales at all.

Used to hate each other. Of course, being pro they used to poach welsh amateur players to "go north" for money. In the 80s, if you "went north" you got banned for life from playing union ever again.
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Since we are now into Wales memories, I worked in London in a very posh firm in the early 1970s, mostly on the Camarthen estate of the Earl of Cawdor (makes me think of Macbeth). New laws allowed tenants (aka serfs) with long leases on their homes to buy their freeholds. I had huge Ordnance Survey maps, 4” to the mile, spread out on the floor of an empty attic room in Lincoln’s Inn Fields, to find all these tiny places where the sales included access rights like easements ‘with and without wheelbarrows’. One Easter in about 1972, DH1 and I went to Wales along the newly opened M5 motorway (we lived in a flat a mile from Heston, the first service area out of London, and wanted to explore where it went), crossed the 1966 Severn Bridge, and went looking for all the places for which I was doing the conveyancing. It snowed that Easter, and DH1 and I stayed in a Youth Hostel where we used our sleeping bags and all the army blankets and were still cold. I used to write estate business letters for the firm's partner to sign, with the signature: “I am, my Lord, yours truly and obliged” blah blah blah. I used to wish I could put “I am, my Lord, your Lordship’s grovelling worm”. And yes, I think we did 'take a trip up to Abergavenny' because of the song. But the weather wasn't fine.

PS They play rugby in the eastern states of OZ. It's just as stupid as Australian Rules and soccer. I'm not keen on the intellectual value of chasing balls around a paddock!
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New Zealand - of course, play proper sports there like in wales. None of this football/soccer rubbish...

Trouble is they're still WAY better than wales at it.
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disgusted - yes isnt the highest tidal range in the world in nova scotia - with the severn being 2nd or something?

Of course, "gas" is a lot more expensive over here. £6 ($7.50) a gallon approx although its gone down a lot. Cheaper in the USA.
When I've hired a car there - usually a bit SUV I see mpg and its like 14mpg! WOW No-one in the uk - apart from the mega rich would buy car like that.

My wife has got a lovely new merc a class. Diesel. Does 55-60mpg.
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New Zealand LOL! Yes!!

My grandparents went when they retired. First & only OS trip they did. A real luxury back then. So exciting watching & hearing the roar of the big jumbo from the outside viewing deck. I thought they were very brave! Brought back Maori dolls, Tikis & beautiful jade jewellery. So exotic it was.

Then came 2020. For the brave again now.
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Very pretty, Christchurch, and also did tremendously well when they had that dreadful earthquake a while back; but for a major city it's tiny, isn't it? I shouldn't pretend to know, though - my friends-and-relations all live in places with unpronounceable Maori names and keep saying I must go and visit. Mm. Wonderful vineyard tours, apparently, and about the safest tourist destination (apart from Antarctica) there is, if anybody simply must get away this year.
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Isn't Christchurch pretty dense? That's where my cousin lives.
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Since the typical New Zealand household comprises six sheep and a hobbit I don't think it's fair to judge other countries against them.
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"...didnt have to pay the bridge toll. Roads not the best."
Depending on the cost of gas/petrol, and the wear and tear on driving farther, did he really save anything? Most likely not! I laugh at people who line up at gas stations because the price is $0.02 cheaper at that one, even when sometimes it is father away. What they don't realize is they are wasting more driving there and sitting in line! $0.02 for 10 gallons saves $0.20! If your tank is larger, say in a truck, maybe $0.40. The station with the cheapest gas (sometimes $0.10 less than the closer stations) is a place I will go ONLY if I am delivering and/or visiting mom's place, as it is on the way. Otherwise, driving 10 minutes out of my way, each way, isn't worth it!

"I remember people watching the Severn Bore once."

Funny you said that... I thought about it when reading/posting the Severn Estuary info (learned a lot about that through those videos and already knew the tide came in VERY quickly.) When I was a kid, we used to visit relatives in Nova Scotia, so one trip we went to see the "bore". It WAS a huge bore... as in boring! Must be we went during a very low tide as it was NOT impressive...
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"New Zealand, Paul. Much safer. And very far away. You could claim to be gone for a month..."

Or tell him you might be relocating there... apoplectic fit?

Not only that, but from all accounts they've handled the virus VERY well - just under 1500 confirmed cases and 21 deaths... not too bad!
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New Zealand, Paul. Much safer. And very far away. You could claim to be gone for a month...
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Tell 'im you've booked a different holiday this year. Australia springs to mind; but you could have fun with that.

I only thought the (second) Severn Bridge had been opened a lot earlier because I didn't realise it was so new when we were driving over it - there and back again to my son's annual rugby camp in Kidwelly, where the great Phil Bennett generously gave the children a masterclass. Ah happy days.
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Hes mega focused now on me not going on holiday to Florida....

It might or might not happen. If the planes going we're going.....

Dads mentioned about 10 times now how he thinks I should cancel. I can't cancel now you've got to wait until they cancel to get a refund.

Of course, he doesn't like me going away anyway so it'd be ideal for him.
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Wow disgusted thats cool! All the facts there.

The next road crossing of the Severn is Gloucester. I used to work there and could see it out the window of the office. I worked with a lad who drove every day (he lived in newport like me but I got the train). He used go to work over the bridge but then come back the "long way" so he didnt have to pay the bridge toll. Roads not the best.

I remember people watching the Severn Bore once. Not so good when it got to Gloucester of course.
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CM - 5th June 1996 for the second one...

Yes the old one was a bit scary at times!
I remember there being tolls both ways - 50p,

And the old Aust services. Got to be a bit pointless with the opening of the new bridge as did that motorway (they called the m48). Unless you were doing to chepstow area it was pointless going that way.

When I worked in Bristol I occasionally came back over the old bridge because I was bored!
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More fun to bring info (and kill time!) rather than discuss the depressing stuff!

The original Severn Bridge was opened much more than 20 years ago (opened on 8 September 1966, so about 54 years ago.) So Countrymouse correct there.

The second Severn Bridge, renamed on 2 July 2018 to Prince of Wales Bridge, was opened on 5 June 1996, so about 24 years ago for the second bridge. Close enough to say 20 years, but Countrymouse right again!

All info and quotes from Wikipedia:

Interesting that plans for a bridge over the Severn go back even farther! "The first proposal for a bridge across the Severn, approximately in the same location as that eventually constructed, was in 1824 by Thomas Telford, who had been asked to advise on how to improve mail coach services between London and Wales. No action was taken, and over the next few decades the railways became the dominant mode of long-distance travel, with the Severn Railway Bridge at Sharpness being opened in 1879 and the main line Severn Tunnel in 1886."

The next discussion for a bridge at Severn and other improvements was after WWII, in 1946, but another bridge project (Forth Road Bridge, over the Firth of Forth Scotland) delayed those plans.

I also read that cars could pass through the train tunnel on special train cars or via ferry, before any bridge was built - otherwise it was a long trek by car!

The tolls were a way to pay the construction groups for the projects (accepting the contract to build the new bridge required taking over the management and debt on the first bridge - £100 million. Original bridge tolls were to help pay the cost of building it.) Tolls were originally both ways, but was "changed in the early 1990s to eliminate the need for a set of toll booths for each direction of travel and the potential for traffic waiting to pay the toll backing up onto the bridge itself." Makes sense not to have traffic parked for long periods, esp for the older bridge, then about 25 years old, and had reduced traffic and lane closures to allow repairs to the structure.

It does mention that both bridges were closed twice in 2009 due to falling ice - at my old house, ice dams fell and broke my front railing - you don't want those hitting you!!! It mentioned several cars having windshield breakage. The design of the second bridge took into account the wind factors, to reduce impact.

"The consortium consisting of two civil engineering firms and two banks that funded and built the bridge had a 30-year concession to redeem its outlay from tolls collected from users of the bridge." Tolls eliminated in late 2018 (previously the plan kept the tolls) was based on assumption that removing the tolls "would boost the South Wales economy by around £100m a year." Ownership reverted back to the UK government on 8 January 2018. It was planned for 2017 (back in 2010), but the cost of installing CC systems for tolls increased the total cost to be recouped.

As much as tolls do stink, they are a way to fund major projects. The original plan for the Mass Pike was to eliminate the tolls once the project was paid for, however that never happened! It's been a bone of contention for a long time, but one argument is that the cost of keeping the road in good repair is a lot, so the tolls (includes other toll sections as well) continue, but are now transponder driven. No transponder, you get billed by plate info (it was extremely rare for me to use these roads, and now I see NO need, so it doesn't bother me!) It certainly makes sense that those who USE these roads/bridges should be the ones to fund upkeep, not the general public who might never use them (I recall a plan to tax everyone for owning a car, but if a car never uses those roads/bridges - WTF!!!)

Other fun facts:
Second largest tidal range in the world, 48 ft (15 m) (first is the Bay of Fundy.)
The tidal bore travels upstream against the river current at 13 to 21 km/h, 8-13mph.
People SURF the tidal bore!
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My Mum would never listen to the news alone. Wouldn't hear/pay attention. Just got snippets to misunderstand & worry over. Rather get it 'live' from people direct or watch the news WITH people so she can ask questions & get answers. Hmmm
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It was a lot longer than 20 years, Paul, surely.

English people used to enjoy wittily pointing out that the toll would have made a lot more money if you'd had to pay to get *out* of Wales, instead of the other way about. Tee hee hee.

Either way it is not fun to drive over in a high wind and heavy rain in the dark flanked by HGVs; but on a misty morning with the sun breaking through it is very lovely.
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Barb - nah he wont watch the news because "it worries him". Jeez...

So instead of getting the facts he listens to his friend and works himself up :-(
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disgusted - yes I guess thats where I live - the Severn Estuary. Used to have a lovely train ride to work (well first 100 times lol) - the train followed the river all the way up to Gloucester (its normal river size there).

Confident WDW will be open. I WAS confident we'd be OK for august.

Problem now is the UK government are STILL advising against ANY travel abroad. That causes problems with insurance etc.

Also, the USA still won't let anyone from Europe in. ITs going to be 50/50. Private villa rentals are still on hold in central florida too.

Fingers crossed. We'll be going if we can. We've done it every year so it wont matter if some things are closed. Might be a unique experience with the parks being so empty too.
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