It's been a hard week....

Barb - Yeh I know. I am just awful at doing this. He says something and I can't help it.....

Got to work on it....

Paul,

I do feel like you are ready to surrender. It’s futile to continue in a relationship that is harmful to us. My blood pressure was elevated when I dealt with my family members. At least limit the time spent. I have to avoid triggers.

Even an unpleasant phone conversation can be an annoying trigger. Why put yourself through that? I’m not going to anymore. If we desire to check in periodically, that’s enough.

When something becomes too heavy, sooner or later we end up dropping it. The load became too heavy for me to carry around and I let go. I think it can be a conscious or unconscious decision.

It’s like a past relationship that wasn’t all that good for us but it felt like we really loved that person or had an obligation to them.

When the relationship ended it felt odd at first, our mind goes to, ‘what could have been?’ But then we felt free and happy not to be annoyed by them anymore. It’s just that simple. We can’t see it until we have stepped away from it.

Paul,

I wouldn’t see the point of communication with your dad or brother at this time either. I get it.

You have hit your threshold of being bothered with their behavior. I don’t feel like you expect them to act differently. I don’t expect anything different from my family either.

We all have a breaking point. I hit mine awhile back and I am at peace now because I chose to let go, just like you decided to do.

You don’t need the headache, nor do I, especially at this unnerving time. It doesn’t mean that you don’t care.

I care about my mom and I know that you care about your dad but we don’t have to set ourselves up for the same broken record that never changes.

Time to stop playing that tune! If we don’t expose ourselves to the record we don’t hear it played. It’s very liberating.

Your wife will see the change. Your children will too. Mine do. My family and friends have told me that they see the light in my eyes again.

paul: Yes, I know that it wouldn't be a good time right now. That's why I called it irritating. Prayers...

Dear Paul, I think that a large part of your personal problem is simply accepting that your father is a very nasty man. Self-obsessed, stupid, a liar, a taker etc etc. My mother took us kids when she left my dreadful father in 1952, and back then there was no high-minded nonsense about not telling it like it is to the kids. I was brought up knowing that he was a pig. You were brought up to think your father was the Angel Gabriel, and your problems are still lingering.

You have more than paid back any favours your father ever did you. Stop paying! Don’t go, hang up, and DON’T WORRY.

PS Of course I had other problems, like being forced to be pleasant during court-ordered access visits. Thirty years later I read that this is apparently a good training for being a lawyer or management consultant – my jaw just dropped!

Paul, do you listen to what you write? You are expecting your father to change his behavior. To be grateful. To be satisfied. To stop being demanding.

That isn't going to happen. Accept him for who he is and tune out his manipulation.

Your behavioral changes are NOT going to result in a turn around in his personality. Stop expecting that and you'll be a happier man.

Paul, stop explaining yourself to your father. Just STOP. When he say "yes, but you can" or "they say that", just remain silent.

That's why you need to leave the phone on the counter. If you can't stop yourself from arguing with him, don't listen.

And just so you know, I have seen this technique used in real time. My mother used to do this with my aunt. She would throw a random "hmmm hmmmm" in from time to time, but other just let my aunt rattle on. It works with people who are totally self absorbed and only interested in the sound of their own voice.

ha ha yeh Barb that might be an idea....
Llama- well it wouldnt be a good time ANYWAY.

Spoke to him today and next time I'm putting the phone down. I said "look I've been at the hospital Im high risk" and "I;m not supposed to travel".

He was ready "Well ok 14 day then you're ok to see me" and "it said on the news you can travel to an elderly person who needs you".

Honestly.... Hes got an answer fgor everything.

Yet he still wants me to visit but not come in the house. Why? I dont get it.
It does appear to the case of being able to get me to do it is more than important that what is achieved with me visiting"

Surely someone has invented an app to call aging parents daily to check on them?

Ok nerd kids at home in your rooms - get cracking.

Paul, here's a thought.

Call once a day. Say "hi dad, calling to check in". Once you hear his voice, place the phone on the table and set a timer for 5 minutes. When the timer dings say "sorry dad, there's the bell, gotta go" and hang up.

paul: Glad to hear that your wife's surgery went okay. That is more than a little irritating about your dad expecting you to visit the weekend after she'd had her surgery. I guess he just can't or doesn't care to change, right?

My SIL just sent this song.

https://www.facebook.com/181454875231519/posts/2907839682593011/?vh=e&d=n

I never click on links in case dodgy myself so googled it instead;

Damo & Ivor Stay the f*** at Home

Someone's Dad needs to hear it 😅

CM - I hear where you're coming from and you see the best in everyone - I get that.

BUT, its been too long and too much for me - sorry not happening. I would call him once a day if he treated me properly. Its gone past that.

Its only 5 mins a day maybe. 5 mins of hearing how bad my wife is, how I should be visiting, then deflecting tricks to get me do what he wants. Not doing it. Why should I listen to that? I've got enough going on in my life at the moment without having to put up with that.

"All he needs is to know I care for him". Jeez. I've been caring for him since I sorted his new flat and mortgage, 25 years ago. Since I sorted all his government grants to get the house modified. Since I put up with him every xmas day even though he was very rude to my family. Since I ran up there every few days to drop a pint of mil k off because he said it was urgent. Since I almost ended up getting divorced because I pretty much spent ALL my spare time with him.

Why do I have to prove it with his stupid antics every week where he tries to get me to fulfill some made up need to prove my worth?

And it won't be "all he needs" either. It wont be enough for him. I've got to REALLY prove that I will do what he says. Risk fines for being out on the road - I'll get a point for that. Leave my wife at home and put him first - that'll be double points.

I can predict Dad will NEVER be grateful. Honestly he won't. He'll try to look like he is if it gets him what he wants. I can safely say its been YEARS since Dad has done ANYTHING to make me say "Aw that was nice of him".

Yes this whole thing may change him. Hes not going to get better though. It'll probably end up showing me how far he will go to get what he wants.

Paul, are you telling me you really don't see how thoroughly your father enjoys a good juicy grievance?

Do call him more often. Call him once a day, same time of day. All he needs, and it's not unreasonable, is to know that you do in fact care about him.

And as you care about him - you're not especially high risk, that really isn't the point - you will not be exposing him to *completely* *needless* risk, which IS the point.

So he'll pile on the guilt. So what? After five minutes or so, you won't have to hear another word about it 'til next day.

I suspect what you mean, anyway, is not that you feel so guilty - for doing obviously the correct thing, so what's to feel guilty about - but that he's extremely boring. Cope!

You may see some interesting changes in him over this period. I have one client who has not been the most gracious we've ever known, shall we say. Well! - now both of his daughters are keeping away (one of them reluctantly, the other I'd certainly like to give a penny for her thoughts); and we've stripped his calls back to one a day to reduce contact as far as possible. Yesterday, he was so pathetically grateful I could have shed a tear. "You don't mind coming?" he asked anxiously. Poor old boy! He is getting a real taste of what it would be like to be left alone, and I'm sure he's not the only one who finds it a sobering experience.

All - thing is I guess in a normal parent-child relationship you'd call your parents MORE in times like this. Nope - because he uses it to his advantage to get more digs in and chuck on the guilt trip about visits.

He knows if I dont ring him at all that means I'm bad son. If I do ring him then he can get in there and play his games.

Like CMs teacher, I'd be driving across 3 counties to visit him. Crazy, crazy, crazy.

I still don't understand why he wants me to visit though? Hes confirmed that brother has been standing at bottom of stairs, why does he want me to drive all that way to do this?

He doesn't NEED any food and my brother could get the odd things anyway. Even if he really needs cash (I cant see why he'd need cash) he can give my brother his cash card surely? I don't get it. He can speak to me on the phone, its not like I can visit and spend an hour there like I used to.

Sometimes I wonder how he thinks. Like I said, is he making me do this just because he can? To prove some sort of point? Like he can get me to break curfew, drive miles, leave my own family at home, so he can proof that I'll do anything for him?

Picking my wife up from hospital today. So I'll be in the hospital briefly. My daughter was in school the other week. I am high risk now.....

Oh I can see a fake 999 call coming. really. Like others have pointed out - its not like I can go and visit him....

Got to be fair very tempted to tell him one of the family have got symptoms just to shut him up. BUT then that'll lead to a 2 hourly call barrage of checking up to make sure everyones ok because "hes worried"

Beatty - fortunately no direct bus. Otherwise he would. (CM - he lives in Pontypridd, I live outskirts of newport, he'd have to get bus to cardiff, bus to newport, bus to me).

Yes exactly what he WANTS seems to outweigh everything....

Beatty, I sympathise. Some people, you just goggle at them because you can't even phrase the thought "what were you thinking?"

I was chatting to D2's future MIL - who, I have to say, is thriving on this crisis! It's forced her into appreciating her community and she really seems to have turned a corner in her grieving process; but anyway. Her other son's girlfriend 'went home for Mother's Day.' She what??? She travelled from Bristol to Swansea to spend the weekend with her parents, then returned to Bristol where she lives with future BIL.

?!?!?

This young lady is a teacher. She is a graduate from a respectable university. Her father is a dentist, and her mother also a teacher. These are educated and intelligent people. What was her reason for ignoring all advice, including her parents' stated preferences, and travelling from one city to another, taking her exposure risk with her? It was Mother's Day. She really really wanted to see her mum.

FFS!

Paul,

You sound determined. You’ve got this. I’m not worried about you! I don’t think you’re going to give your dad an inch, let alone a mile.

It’s horribly sad, to be forced to live with this awful virus but it is changing the atmosphere for those who felt they must depend on others like your dad felt.

So, your dad will have to adjust whether he likes it or not. Of course, he won’t like it and oh well...

Your wife and children come first. You have informed your dad that they are your priority. Keep us posted on your wife’s progress. Take care, Paul.

Haven't seen any email updates, but in checking, there's a lot of posts, so I copied these to add my responses! Before jumping into those, hoping the wife heals quickly!

"Another of his tricks - sweep any conversation or info you don't like under the carpet and carry on as if it didnt exist."
***LEARN from the master! For the times you do chat, carry on with ANY conversation, even nonsense, ignoring the stupid things he says and asks for. Pretend you didn't hear it, just like he does. Or, pass it off, just as he does. Oh, it'll be okay. It'll be fine. It will sort itself out. Blah blah blah. Ignore anything he says or demands. Put the phone down and let him ramble on, mumble a few uh-huhs, sures, okays, etc.

"Is it wrong I'm looking forward to NOT seeing him for a while? ;-)"
*** NOPE!

"...there'll be some life or death emergency that means I'll break the curfew."
***NO emergency worth breaking the curfew. There isn't anything you can do anyway, so NO. Simple, NO.

"...I wouldnt bet against him "having a fall" to get some attention."
***IF he gets the doc attention and/or gets into the hospital, it'll serve him right... You will NOT be allowed in. He WON'T get what he wants doing that, so let him have at it. Hopefully if he pulls a stunt and they figure it out, they can charge him with something.

"...we're allowed to go to work if needs be..."
***Being allowed out to go to work (essential jobs, we now have that in my state, as of midnight tonight) does NOT allow one to abuse that to make trips for "helping" a stupid family member. Helping a vulnerable person would be for those who can manage on their own. He had food, he went out for a walk, so he is mobile, that's that. He is NOT vulnerable in the sense they mean, only an excuse for him to harangue you.

"Fully expect he will escalate this though."
***Have at it dad. Let him escalate all he wants. He tries calling multiple times, block the calls. Anything else he does, like try to get a medical intervention, YOU stay home. That's between him and them.

"polarbear
Mar 26, 2020
Paul - wonder if dad will escalate by getting sick/hurt then call the doctor, or 999. If they didn't have time for his wolf crying before, they definitely don't have time for him now."
***Knowing what he's like and having been chastised once, they may not respond. If they do and find he's either self-inflicted or not an emergency, there'll likely be hell to pay, and HE will have to pay!

"Oh its ok don't come this weekend but I'll see you next weekend."
***Sure dad. Whatever. Agree but don't go. He can try calling, if you haven't blocked him, so answer, say you have emergency and hang up, then block. Or you thought it was next weekend. Or you forgot, maybe next weekend (all just feeble promises. As the saying goes, tomorrow never comes...works for weekends too!) Agree to anything but don't follow through.

"Once again, its more of a "test I'll do what he commands" rather than any reason."
***Ex-actly. At least you do understand that. As BarbBrooklyn said "what part of this are YOU struggling with?"

Your next task, should you decide to take it Mr Phelps, is to FAIL those tests, repeatedly!!!

You may shake your head & say he couldn't ever do that. I hope that is the case!

I say this from experience.. This week the doorbell rings & my Dad is on the doorstep! WHAT! You are supposed to be AT HOME.

I haven't visited them since this started. Mum had decided to bring me TP (2 seniors cards so they got 2 - very very nice of her I must say). But what she WANTS just overrides what she has been told to do in a heartbeat.

Paul, is there a direct bus from Dad's to your place? Still running? If so - look out.

If that you must visit mentality gets too strong he may just be on your doorstep if he can physically do it.

CM/Barb - Oh I understand it completely and I'm not visiting... End of. Why on earth he thinks I need to visit to drop in a pint of milk or some more biscuits I'll never know...

Yet every conversation he seems to forget. Today hes said "but you're allowed to care for vulnerable people". Ummm, driving 30 miles to deliver milk and biscuits isnt really what they mean.

And, as always with Dad, he REALLY needs me to visit because, in his head, its that important. If its risky then, as far as hes concerned, its a risk we've got to take. BUT hes always been like that - visits to him are come "Hell or high water".

I know I know. Wife is out of hospital tomorrow. So shes been exposed to many people..... As have I by direct contact with her.

If he wants to put himself at risk then go for it. I can't stop him. He "went for a walk" today. Jeez. I'm not being the one who ends up passing it to him....

To be honest, after the way he is, I'm hardly surprised that his approach to all of this has been so crazy.

Paul, what part of this are YOU struggling with?

"Dad, what part of this are you struggling to understand? Are you watching the news?"

Oh hes still not given up. His "need money" excuse has gone - they've sent him a letter saying he can't pay cash anyway but they'll bill him.

Today he said "Its OK, I don't mind if you don't come this weekend but you're wife will be OK by weekend after".

Eh? I already said categorically I cannot come this weekend especially or after that.

I told him AGAIN, look I am high risk because my kids may have it, you do not want to get this. Brother lives locally I live miles away - I cannot drive all that way.

He ALWAYS does this. Normalises it. Oh its ok don't come this weekend but I'll see you next weekend.

Best thing I asked him - so brother doesn't go in the house does he? No, he gets food/newpaper etc and send it up on his chairlift.

So why on earth do you want me to drive 30 mins each way, just to talk to me down the stairs???? Its unbelievable...

Once again, its more of a "test I'll do what he commands" rather than any reason.

My sister has been "I'm fine" to all my msgs re food & meds. Has she set up delivery? No. Has she ordered extra meds? No. Exactly like Barb's friend. Calls WILL come... "I need.." & put others at risk. She cannot plan - that's part of her deficits.

She moves into care today - for a 'trial'. Thank the stars above!!! Trial for her means trying it out then returning home alone. Trial to me means getting the paperwork sorted.

Paul has stocked Dad's freezer. I'd say leave him to it now. Actually, for peace of mind, I'd ask if his phone, electricity & heating bills are paid up.

I think he will still hound about visits. Just keep repeating Barb's slogan "No I can't possibly do that".

I think it's reasonable to say "Dad, I can't visit. I've explained. I will end the phone call if you keep bringing this up".

Barb, NYC! Stay safe 🙏

Paul - wonder if dad will escalate by getting sick/hurt then call the doctor, or 999. If they didn't have time for his wolf crying before, they definitely don't have time for him now.

Paul, it doesn't matter if he's okay with the idea.

You've been ordered to avoid all unnecessary contact for the sake of your wife (a vital worker) and kids staying well. You are keeping a vital industry, as well as your family, operational.

Right now, dad is someone else's problem. And it's not your job to figure out whose.

Many years ago, when Hurricane Sandy was about to hit NYC, I called my best friend and told her that I would drive her to her 90 to mom's house (in a severe part of the storm path and flood zone) so that we could bring her out of harm's way.

My friend said "no, she'll be fine". I told my friend that I would not put my life in danger after the storm hit.

Guess who called in the middle of the storm? And guess who said no?

You've offered to set your dad up with the ability to get his own supplies and he refuses. I guess he will simply need to pay the price now. Not your problem...

PS, we are still friends.

NeedHelp - Yep he is perfectly safe and got what he needs. As you say, its not great for anyone especially the elderly....

Don't worry all there is no way hes getting me there for his sake more than anyone elses as well. I've got a young kid who was in school until recently and until a few days saw her friends still etc. I could have it now after all - who knows?

Fully expect he will escalate this though. Be VERY surprised if hes ok with the idea.