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I've don't remember ever wanting to be a mum. I'm turning 27, my husband is turning 30 this year and the pressure is on to pop one out. We just shrug these people off and say "We don't want kids. Didn't want them when we first met 8 years ago, still don't want them now" and try to change the topic, but people just don't understand that we mean it. H**l, we're saving up so he can a vasectomy for his 30th birthday. We're lucky that the family we're in contact with (our parents, my mum's sister and my husband's sister) don't give us pressure and totally support our decision, but his extended family is relentless.

The pressure seems to have gotten worse since caring for my grandmother. They don't realise that this is a full time job. She has dementia and she's violent. Even if we wanted kids, we wouldn't want to raise one around her because she's scary and abusive. Plus, the costs of caring for her mean we live on the poverty line. We live week to week and throwing a pregnancy then a kid into that mix would put us below the poverty line.

When I say I basically do everything a mum with a toddler does and I couldn't deal with a kid as well, I get told "It's not the same" because the generations are around the wrong way. I didn't realise that changing her diapers, feeding her, bathing her, clothing her, dealing with tantrums, stopping her from hurting the dogs and cats, having kids shows on TV all day cos they keep her happy/calm, being up 4-5 times a night because she's calling out, not allowing her off the toilet till she's done her business, cleaning up her mess, and having food thrown at me was totally different to being a parent because she's 85 instead of 3 and she didn't come from my body.

The only way I can see caring for my grandmother as different to being a parent is that I don't like my grandmother and generally, people actually like their kids. She was abusive to my mum and aunt till mum was 18, moved out of home and took her then 10 year old sister with her. My grandmother has always been a nasty piece of work and I'll never forgive her for what she put my mum and aunt through. I'm lucky that my mum broke that cycle of abuse and is still an amazing mum and woman, and I'll always be grateful for that. Mum was showing signs of depression and heading for a breakdown, so I took over as my grandmother's full time carer. I'm literally doing this for my mum, not my grandmother.

We always get comments like "Caring for her is practice for having kids" and "Don't you want her to have her great-grandchildren around her?" and the one I hate the most "Who will do what you do for her when you're her age?". I hate it so much because I can't help but think having a kid to look after you when you're old is a pretty crappy reason to have created a human being, plus I wouldn't want to force what I do on anyone.

I'm not looking for support or anything, I'm not wavering in the slightest about my decision to be childfree. I've been dealing with people telling me "You'll change your mind" or "Your body clock will kick in when you're near 30 and you'll want 10 of them" or "Every woman wants to be a mother, even if they say they don't, they secretly do" for over 2 decades and if anything I've become more childfree in that time. I was just curious if anyone else here got more pressure when they became a carer. It seems odd to me that people would see being a carer as "practice" or dismiss it because "it isn't the same" and wanted to know if it seems to be a common thought.

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I would be as annoyed as you. But people are well-intentioned. They don't understand that commenting and talking about how you don't want kids is extremely rude and intrusive. There is nothing wrong with not having kids. I got married, I had a baby. That's what I thought I was supposed to do. Lucky for me my daughter turned out great. She's 20 now so she's raised and I thank God I don't have another around to raise. I got lucky because she was so easy to raise. I don't even like kids but that's the type of thing you can't say out loud in mixed company because people will look at you like you're an axe murderer or something.

And because I've raised a child and been a caregiver I can tell you that they are so light years apart. The next time some old biddy tells you that caring for your grandmother is good "practice" for "later", tell her your hubby had a vasectomy and then offer to show her the before and after pictures.
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I wish more parents were like you. You seem to understand that my choice isn't an attack on yours and that at the end of the day, my not wanting to be a mother has no impact on you at all. So many parents don't understand that. They seem to think that I'm saying my life is better than theirs and that they have to go on some crusade to change my mind. I honestly don't care if someone has 0 kids or 20 kids, that's their choice and has no impact on my life at the end of the day.

As for the well-intentioned old biddies, most of the people that put pressure on my husband and I are his cousins who are all in their 20s, very condescending and all have kids of their own. The youngest is the worst for it. She has 4 kids at 23 and says things like "I hope your birth control fails so you and (husband) are forced to finally grow up and be responsible". Every time I see her at a family thing, she tries to make me the babysitter for all the kids there (11 kids ranging from 2 months to 8 years) so I "get practice" or she tries to force me to hold one of her kids, which I'm terrified of since I've dropped a baby in the past (it spit up on me and it was a reflex). I'm just lucky that my husband, his parents and his sister back me up when I say no.

My mum made a similar joke about showing people my hubby's vasectomy photos and he said "Go one better, carry around a jar with water and 2 walnuts in it and offer to show them that!"
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Aetain~Having children is a personal choice. I understand that people tend to think that we get married to have children...but really, is that why we get married? Woman are having children by artifical insemination as well as just not using birth control. Being 56 years old, to me getting married is starting a life with my life partner. If you 2 chose not to have children, family should respect that decision. I do have to add, that if my children decided not to have children, I would be disappointed because I want so much to be a grandmother, but I would respect their decision and not pressure them. Older people just assume that children will follow a marriage and for them to get their mind around you not wanting child ren will be very strange for them to accept. For the difficult members, you may have to set boundaries on the subject and just not discuss it with them.

I do hope that since you and your husband are still very young, that you get to have time alone enjoying activities together through some type of respite. I don't know how long you have been married before you took on the responsibility of caring for your grandmother, but please try to have time for yourselves. Blessings to you!!
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My mum and dad are fine with not being grandparents (which is huge relief since I'm an only child) and my in-laws are fine with their son not having children because their daughter has already given them two grandsons, and we have a pretty common surname so it's not like there isn't gonna be anyone without our surname any time soon. Our parents are actually some of our biggest supporters in this choice. It's mostly my husband's cousins who give us a hard time. At least we only see them maybe twice a year (Christmas and random family BBQs in the park that my father in law likes to plan) so we don't deal with it often. I have those annoying cousins hidden on facebook so I can't see their posts, but every now and again I get messages with stuff like "Cousin #4 is pregnant again! You're falling behind!" which I just ignore.

As for my extended family, I don't allow them to weigh in on this since apart from mum's sister and her husband, and one cousin from my dad's side (all of whom are childfree as well), they're all petty crooks and con artists, so I don't have any contact with them. Half of them don't even know I'm married.

And my husband and I were married for 2.5 years before I became my grandma's carer. Just had our 4th anniversary last Wednesday and mum looked after my grandmother all day. She looks after my grandmother at least one night a week so my husband and I can have a date night. We're both big into computer games as well so usually once I've put grandma to bed, we'll sit on our computers and play games together, so we do spend time together doing things we both enjoy quite often.
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everyone who has kids is not necessarily a parent. ive seen little kids all but lighting themselves on fire for attention while the adults sat around congratulating themselves on what great parents they were.
my youngest son told me as a young adult that i was never around. i told him BS, i was right out in the garage building things that you needed to learn. its you who wasnt around. he was just trying to trip me. our family was the closest in the world and lived on a 3 wheeled motorcycle for 9 months a year..
i jump around, its just a fact.
anyway as a father your sons will at a point push you away to live their own lives. ( wink ) go son, run like the wind. ( annoying ba**ard, go away, lol .. )
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Wow! You have incredibly rude relatives! I'd avoid those people as much as feasible without starting a family war. You don't need anyone's approval of your life decisions. You seem to cope with this well.

And, having done both, I can tell you that raising children and caring for the elderly are NOT remotely the same. That is neither here not there regarding your right to make the choices you make, though.

What really puzzles me is what the heck you are doing caring for Grandma?
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I've never been married or had kids. I wanted kids, but I couldn't have done it alone. The one thing I have noticed with friends is those who don't have children have better marriages. If you don't want them, don't let ANYONE push you. It's none of their business. It's rude to ask anyone about it at all anytime because I did that one time & my friend was infertile. Another friend went through in-Citroen & everything (she has money. It didn't work. They ended up adopting a few years later, and said becoming a parent was the biggest mistake she ever made. Though she is a very good one nonetheless.
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BTW I REALLY wanted kids and I am so happy I didn't have any now. I think you may need to be REALLY rude to the family and say "WE ARE NOT HAVING CHILDREN & I WON'T BE AROUND YOU IF YOU MAKE INTRUSIVE COMMENTS AND REFUSE TO ACCEPT OUR CHOICE. IT MAKES ME UNCOMFORTABLE. (Caps were accidental), I think you and your hubby are so lucky to have found each other because so many people aren't on the same page re that decision. And I don't hold my tongue -- I would give it to them!
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Aetain~Glad you and the hubs are getting a date night and enjoy some things together at home. My in-laws had to put their 2cents worth on everything my hubby and I did. I know this has nothing to do with having kids, but it does have to do with family does not respect your choices or boundaries. I did what Jeanne suggested, I did not let them know what we were doing and I limited my time around them because when I was around them, it was one remark after another about they did not approve of how I was raising my children. The KEY words here are "my children"...not their's. Alas, they thought they had ownership rights to my children because they carried the family name. I was just an incubator for them. Do what is best for you and hubs and what makes you happy. You have the support from your parents and in-laws...the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th cousins...well they just don't know you but because your family they think everyone thinks the same.
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Aetain, I am the 5th child of 8 kids. My parents almost practically had 1 child each year for the older kids. Then years went by when I was born, then my younger siblings were like one year after the other. So, as a middle school teenager, I was already babysitting my oldest sisters kids. When I was in high school and college, I was babysitting 2 of my older brothers kids (total of 6) and juggling homework. My older siblings got to go out at nights to the bar, pool, parties, etc.. while we were forced to babysit.

So when I reached age 19, I realized that I never wanted to have children. Even when my younger siblings were having children, I had no regrets. And it drives me crazy when family, relatives and even strangers(!!!) ask me why I don't have kids. Why???? I just tell them that I had decided at age 19 that I wanted to have no kids and I’ve never regretted it. And they just don't drop it. They keep asking more and more questions. I just keep repeating my answer.

It's a very very good thing that I never wanted kids. I had to have a medical hysterectomy due to severe stomach pains from a severe endometriosis. When they did the biopsy of my ovaries. It was covered outside with polyps, and plenty also inside. I don't know if I ever had a child if he/she would have been born handicapped. Before my hysterectomy, I spent hours of research online on the pros and cons. I even googled what women experienced after the hysterectomy. A lot of them did not want to have children. After the surgery, a lot of them regretted it. The hysterectomy was a FINALITY. No turning back. And it hit them that deep down inside, they did wanted children. When I read those stories, I looked within myself. No, I still didn’t want to have children. After the surgery, I was so scared that I was going to end up like those women. What if I was fooling myself? Nope! I was true to myself. It’s now 6 years since the hysterectomy, and I still have no regrets.

Maybe next time, when they mention that so-and-so had child number 4, you can respond, "Good for her! She must be happy to have another child." And if they ask what about you, just shrug and say over and over that you both don't want kids. And look them straight in the eyes. Sometimes, using "that tone of voice" that mothers use can convey that enough is enough. And for them to back off. It does work. =)
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I, like you, just never really saw myself as a Mom. I can't explain it, I just never saw that in my future. I am now 55, must admit I went through a little phase in my late forty's where I wondered whether I had made a mistake, but am so thankful I do not have them. I agree as well it is not a popular thing to admit in public that you do not want kids or maybe aren't all that crazy about them. It does seem to make people think you are some horrid dangerous sort. To me, it is called being a responsible person who knows what they want and do not want and so much better than folks who have them, didn't really want them, let them run wild and gripe privately about what a burden they are..

I used to tell my brother I didn't like kids when I WAS a kid. I was bullied a lot when I was younger and for some reason I just never wanted to have children and make no bones about it. I get a lot of "you poor soul" looks from aunts uncles, cousins...all of whom had tons of kids, they all seem happy enough and I am happy for them. That is just not what I wanted.

I am, also as oddly, very active in animal rescue, wildlife rescue, environmental issues and veterans rights and while all of that has had to take somewhat of a back seat while I am otherwise involved in caring for my Mama, I remain informed in my interests and do what I can via lobbying and writing letters, making phone calls, etc. so as not to lose touch with who I am.

I am different I guess. Kids were never a part of my dream...I applaud you for knowing what you want and sticking to your convictions.
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Eyerishlass, you crack me up re the axe murderer comment as that is exactly how I have been made to feel by a lot of my extended family...all of whom are more of the mindset that we are put on this planet to procreate.... I got a huge chuckle out of that...
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My sister never wanted children, and neither did my brother - I was the "designated breeder" in the family (lol) and supplied the grandchildren. No one in our family ever pressured them to "pop one out" - they made it known years ago that they didn't plan on any, and if anyone didn't understand, tough cookies. I think you just need to have a response that settles it once & for all. Them: "just wait until you're 30 & you'll want 10" You: "When i'm 30 I plan on traveling the world on all the money we'll be saving from NOT having kids." Them: "Who will do for you what you do for her at your age?" You: "We'll be able to afford assisted living so we don't have to burden any family members." Have fun with it...they won't know what to do.
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I have never wanted kids either, mainly from sexual and mental abuse as a kid (figured I had done my time with my legs in the air and don't plan on spending anymore time doing that)...worried that I would change my mind later but never did.

I DID dream of having a baby, a beautiful blonde blue eyed girl....and I was trying desperately to find someone to take her from me.

When breast cancer drugs put me into menopause at 48, I did feel some loss...but it was the loss of another life...a dream life of someone else. A person I could have been if things had been different. I was sad for a few days but never think about it now...now I am just relieved not to have periods anymore!
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I have always been great at getting along with children. I can sing to infants, play peek-a-boo, until they're babbling back to me. I can go outside and play with the toddlers out in the yard just running with them. I can play "wrestling" to the those between age 2-5 on the floor or bed. Grown ups who don't know me are amazed that I can get down to the children's level and play with them - out in the sun. But I'm also a disciplinarian. So, a lot of parents learn that when their children spend time with me, they are quite well behaved when I'm around. I just use that "tone of voice" and the kids immediately calm down. My bro's girlfriend and another friend saw instantly the change of my little nieces and nephews when I'm around and just firmly tell them, "Enough!" They were amazed. Both asked me if I can babysit their nieces/nephews/grands. So, it makes it worse because people see how well I am with kids and vice versa, and say that I should have my own children because I will make a very good mother. And I tell them that I only like to "borrow" the kids. When I have enough of them or they get cranky, I just give them back to their parents.
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Aetain - I'm 48 and my partner and I are childless by choice. My mother used to nag me about children and say she wondered what she ever did to make me not want children. I spared her that little laundry list and my therapy bills! In the past I've used humour with people when they continued to dig for info as why I didn't have or want children. I would say "for the same reason I don't want small pox...it's painful, and if you survive it scars you for life!" or "Thank you for your continued interest in my state of my uterus. At the moment my husband and I are still enjoying my tight vaginal muscles and firm breasts but if my husband ever changes his mind I'll send him right to you."...That usually stuns them into silence.

All sarcasm aside, you may need to be polite and direct. It sounds like they know they are getting to you and enjoy getting a rise out of you. If you need to comment, maybe you could say something like "I know you mean well and clearly you get a lot of joy from your children and you want that same joy for my husband and me. At the moment, children are not a priority for us. We may change our minds, we may not and we will have to live with the consequences of our decisions. I'm sure you have no intention of being hurtful but the repeated comments, regarding our decision, are making it more and more difficult to enjoy our times together. You've made your opinion very clear and I respect where you're coming from. I now ask that you respect ours."

No need to say you will stop attending family events. If they continue after you've made yourself clear then they are deliberately and intentionally trying to hurt you and make you feel "less than". Just look at them straight in the face, smile and say absolutely nothing. Awkward silences can be deliciously deafening!

Although I sometimes do wonder what will happen to me when and if I get to old age but I must say I've never regretted my decision. Stay strong and stay dignified in your approach.
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Back when I was married, I remembered my mother-in-law always asking about when we were going to have children. Finally I said to her "Mom, I hope you love us even if we don't have children" and that did the trick to stop the hinting around.

I was an only child so I had no siblings to practice being a "Mom" to.... nor did I do very much babysitting, didn't like the crying and tantrums. So when I did get married, it didn't matter to me if we were able to have children or not. Turned out I was unable to conceive. Did I miss not being pregnant and going through child birth? Not really.

My significant other has two grown children from his first marriage, and there are times he wished he and his ex-wife had chosen not to have children.
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jeannegibbs - I'm caring for my grandmother so my mother doesn't have to. Mum was her carer for 2 years and I saw she was showing signs of depression, so I moved into Mum's house with my husband (which was actually handy cos living here shaved 45 mins off his commute) and took over. My mum is a fantastic lady, she's my best friend and more like a sister to me despite a 38 year age gap. I'm forever grateful to her for not raising me like she was raised and that she broke the cycle of abuse that tends to happen when an abused child becomes a parent. That said, I don't feel I owe her. I'm doing this for mum because I want to make her life easier. She's had a hard life and she's in her 60s now. I wanna make her golden years as cruisy as I can.

Before you suggest putting her in a home, she's on a waiting list for a government home, but that list is 8 years long and we can't afford a private home. Mum and my aunt had my maternal grandfather in a private home because he was way too much for any of us to care for while waiting for a government home and that basically bankrupted them. So our only option is that I care for her.
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I've never had the desire to be a mom. I think during my early forties I thought for a split second and got over it. Not everyone is ment to be a mom. I'm ok with my decision. My mom has commented. I just tell her I didn't want to expose children to her.
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I know this is late, but I never wanted kids. Ever. Once in a while I would actually THINK about it (something I think a h*ll of a lot of people never do about the subject) but simply observing the reality of children, how they can alter (and destroy) their parent(s) life was a put off. All I needed to do was go to supermarkets, dept stores, etc to be further educated on the wisdom of not having children. Remarkably, I have hardly ever been 'bingoed' on my decision. I have virtually no family so I did not have breeder brained relatives egging me on.
If you really look at programming on television, movies, baby making is pushed as if it is a sacred duty. I think it is more economical: there are tons of industries poised to make lots of money off of people who have kids. This includes the welfare industries as well. I refuse to patronize them: I rather buy what I like, go to bed when I like, wake up when I like (within reason: I have to work). I have to say my mother has never ever bothered me on the subject.
It can be found, there is an out of print book by Ellen Peck called 'The Baby Trap' focusing on the advertisement pressure to breed. Interesting enlightening book. I was fortunate to read it back when it came out in the 70's. Very counter culture. Refusing to follow the lifescript is still counter cultural.
On my own observations, as birth control has become more reliable, safer and accessible, the pressure to breed has become almost hysterical in pitch. Just my two cents worth.
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I see every one who has posted responses here has decided against having children and agree it is a choice, but wanted to add into consideration, some countries such as US have negative population growth (except for immigrants). Japan has offered its citizens monetary bonuses to have more children (as long as tbeyre Japanese). All Caucasian populations are in negative growth. Worldwide only Central/South American, Asian, Indian and African countries are expanding. This is a concerning statistic for the US since it puts immense pressure on younger workers, with an increasing abundance of aged seniors beyond working capacity. If immigrants bring high skill levels, spend their monies in US, and are able to assimilate to the existing range of cultures and support our aged senior populations its not a problem. But it's an interesting question, what type of population we'll have in next 30-60 years. Caucasian people of all ages will be the new minority, Caucasian seniors will be especially at risk of losing their cultural identity. Asians, Mexicans, Indians and Blacks will be the majority by 2045. It will be an interesting time for whites.
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Just an additional note. As a parent of a high functioning autistic son, the idea that having a child to take care of you in your old age is a fallacy. My husband and I hope that we have set up enough of a support system to make sure our son is ok if something happens to us, and have NO expectation that he would be capable of managing our care later. We had him late in life and have no regrets in having him, but we only had the 1. As the incidence of autism and other developmental disorders rise, the argument of having kids as some sort of insurance in our age is laughable. Take care and make your own plans for long term care and develop relationships in your extended community. Nothing is guaranteed in this world:)
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It's been said, it takes a village to raise a kid. It also takes a village to care for our seniors. Villages with no kids and no seniors and nobody with exceptional talents and needs, don't exist for very long. Interacting with ALL of life's variations is what makes life worth living. Be childless if you can't handle the responsibilities of children; be a senior and get ready to pay lotsa money to whomever is younger and willing to do caretaking (even if they are a radically different culture than yours).
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why isn't your grandmother in the nursing home? it sounds like she is more than you can or should be expected to handle, btw we had problems having children and people asking us about it drove us nuts, finally my husband would say "i have a low sperm count" and look sad - shut everyone up fast - didn't ask again :)
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Aetain- You and your husband shouldn't have to be treated this way. Sure, some change their minds and some dont. Its your choice and there's nothing wrong with it! If you are happy thats what matters! And you described your situation how it is and your right, some do not understand the difference! I didnt for a while!

Being a mom I never wanted my kids to take care of me either, sure to come visit but thats it I already have it where I go to a NH. But like guestshopadmin son is high functioning autistic, my daughter is asbergers( in process diagnose and my son ,lets start with probably bipolar) I worry about my kids too and want a good job ( soon) to save for them as well. Even if no issues, I never had kids for them to take care of me, I wanted kids and to be a mom. Some peoples views vary for sure.

I wish you and yours the best and a wonderful life.

Saying that, isnt there anyway your grandma could go to a NH? Hugs
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I have kids because I wanted to. I don't expect my kids to take care of me, and have bought LTC insurance which is unlimited and inc's to cover inflation. I do however expect society to continue to be civilized and have a healthy population--of all ages. Currently the demographics in US are completely in target to have Caucasian becoming the minority just at the time I become a senior, perhaps at my most vulnerable time of life, and unfortunatley I will be forced to receive "care" from the lowest rungs of non-Caucasians. If anybody thinks that sounds like how it should be for your most vulnerable years, please let me know how you accomplish feeling good about that? Already my kids have been asaaulted and bullied incessantly by non-Caucasians, the schools will do nothing and we are just expected to put up with it. Reverse discrimination is wrong, and especially wrong when involving minors and seniors.
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im rapidly realizing im becoming a senior citizen , been thinking about it quite a bit . im glad i have two sons . they are carbon copies of myself and an asset to the caucasian race . the cumulative knowledge thats been passed to them will hopefully be passed on .
if not for them id feel ( and be ) alone in this world right now .
no offense to those who are childless , but i too fear for our race .
white people mechanized and modernized this world . it isnt something to be ashamed of by any means .
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Captain thanks for weighing in. To be truthful I can see how a lot of people are muttering that I'm some type or racist creep. But actually its not any different than being a strongly ethnically Italian, or Japanese, or Eskimo, or any other clearly identifiable ethnic group--if you do have any identity you would not! want that to be ignored blatantly in your most vulnerable years. I would not want any muslim caregivers at all, yet even now when I visit relatives/friends in facility, a goodly number of the female assistants are all decked out in headscarves and burkas, and the male assistants are from Somalia or someplace I would never visit. Its hard to imagine that I could be paying $8, 000 a month to have caregivers NOT of my own faith?! That is just more reason to stay healthy and maybe if I get a bad diagnosis, walk into the ocean and swallow a lot of seawater into my lungs.
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I've never asked a car mechanic, a plumber or a doctor that I've had of whatever race what their faith was. I was more concerned about their competency than anything else.

For example, I had an endocrinologist who was from Nigeria and in another city until we got one here where I live. He is from Egypt. I never asked either one of them what their faith was for it really was not relevant to the help that I needed. The last one we had here several years ago was Caucasian and I have not idea what his faith was either, but he was a good doctor.
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It was on the news recently that over 50% of children now are born to unwed mothers. I am on smart phone so can't cut & paste the link but it's totally true.
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