The Caregiver & Dysfunctional Families: How are you doing?

eyem -(((((hugs))))) hope the therapy helps - sounds like you have a real problem sibling there, and way too big a load. I hope you find some answers

I am suffering from an emotional hangover, I think. Today I had an upset stomach, nausea, and I think it was due to the exchange between mother and I. As much as I tried to laugh at it, having her tell me she never wanted to see me again did hurt. I have done the best I can to help her over the years, and it has cost me plenty of emotional pain, and I don't need more of that. I am not sure how to further protect myself. Some years ago she wrote nasty emails to my daughter who waited a while, then wrote her back, and told mother that if she ever wrote like that again to her, she would have nothing more to do with her. Mother was never nasty to her again. I am about ready to do that myself.however, I know I have to mean it.

Joan, I'm sorry to hear about your emotional hangover. It does sound like the relationship with your mum has been pushed over the edge or should I say beyond the breaking point. You are in my prayers as you decide what to do about her emotional abuse.

Narcissistic people just don't get it. Like my MIL when my wife was talking to her about the miracle of her identical twin sister still being alive after her fight with ovarian cancer 11 years ago to which the MIL said "God healed her so that she could take care of me and I'm sure she enjoys being around me." No! She even says she misses her dead husband because he is no longer around to do things for her.

Thanks John - I really feel that this is destructive to me. It is hard listening to all the complaints, but the personal attacks are worse. The last time I felt that was about a year ago when she dragged Gordie and his experience in hospital before he died into her one sided argument to try to prove her point. It seems that there are no holds barred, when she gets mad - anything can be said or done or dragged into the situation. And as much as I have detached to quite a point, there are somethings which still hurt, and also bring up past hurts, For a while she and my sister behaved as if they didn't know me when we were at University - walking past me in the street and not acknowledging my presence, after a summer of ranting and raving from which I finally fled. So nothing is new. I am not sure what I am going to do, but feel I have to do something,
(((((((jane)))))) seems like you and I are at similar points. Let us know what you figure out. For self-protection, boundaries are really needed dealing with these unhealthy people and situations. I guess I have to draw some tighter ones myself.
lildeb - rubber room is another term for padded cell - I think it means people can bounce off the walls
marg - I like cooking too - I find it calming - eating the results isn't bad either. I made a reasonably successful gluten- and dairy-free blueberry/raspberry pie the other day.
book and sharyn - what ARE you eating. I don't get heartburn much, but I do eat fairly carefully. (wheat and dairy allergies) That white stuff was nutriwhip, and after a couple of spoonfuls today when it didn't sit well, I washed it down the sink.
hugs to everyone - hope tomorrow is a better day

PS cmag - -those comments by your narcissistic MIL tell the story don't they?

Eyemtink – I hope you enjoy your therapy. I enjoyed my 1st three. But it is very stressful for me because I’m with strangers and we bare our souls. It’s a good thing that I got used to doing that here on AC! Otherwise, I would have attended group #2 and would never have gone back. If you need to vent, you can vent here. Maybe someone experienced what you’re going thru and can give you advice.

Sharyn, Lildeb – so I got the “never check-out” wrong. I just remembered the person not being able to leave that hotel. Depressing song…

Jane – I hope you feel better. Hard when you’re dealing with 2 at one time.

Emjo – I’m sorry that you’re hurting from what your mom said. When I was in middle school, my mom gave me such Hatred in her eyes because I was a skinny sickly person. I can still remember where she gave me that Hatred in her eyes and How I Felt. I was shocked. Even though I knew our parents didn’t love us (actions speak louder than words), I just didn’t expect to see Hatred. After that, I learned to hardened my heart from her. I stopped trying to get her attention or please her. I started to learn to take care of myself and handle any sickness/pain/bleeding on my own…. I don’t know which is worse – the words (like you got) or the eyes (like I got.) Maybe either one is just as bad because it does hurt us to the core.

Emjo - I'm eating No-No foods! I've been craving pizzas, lasagna, ice cream and Pickled radish. Yum! Yum! It sure goes down delicious but...Sigh.. I suffer afterwards. You have self-control. I'm tired of self-control so I'm pigging out as much as I can.

Emjo, I had mixed feelings when I read about your mother saying she never wanted to see you again. I wondered how I would feel if mine said it under the current circumstances. Would it hurt? Or would it be like getting a Get Out of Jail Free card? Probably both.

Is it common that narcissistic and borderline personalities have the need to be right? My mother will dig all the way back into my childhood to bring up something that happened to prove her point. I usually don't even argue with her about things that are not critically important, because she needs to be right all the time. There are some things that are sacred, though, and your mother crossed that line when she mentioned your son as proof of her rightness.

Sometimes I think we should call ourselves "adult children of sucky parents." The word dysfunction is too general.

I'm kinda the new kid on the block and sometimes feel shy of commenting on people's post. (((((( Emjo )))))). It's so hard when our mothers are so unkind. I know I always wanted to please my mother (probably more than was healthy) and wanted approval. Oh, I hope I can always be kind to my children and grandchildren. I noticed you don't use glutin or dairy. My husband has Celiac and is vegan. Geez, it's getting harder to be creative in the kitchen!

Book, I know all too well the emotional eating! Its hard, isn't it? I stopped at the Amish market yesterday on the way home from checking out a placement for my mom. Bad decision.... It's amazing how quickly baked goods disappear. I lost almost 60 pounds a couple years ago and hopefully mom will do well when we transfer her to a private care home on Monday and I can be less stressed.

I can really relate to the sibling issues. Yesterday was the first anniversary of my oldest brother's death and we had an ok relationship but his health was bad and he didn't help with mom. My other brother is in jail. I feel guilty but I don't want anything to do with him. He causes tension and discord without even trying! My husband has been so generous with my family. Helping take care of my mom when he comes home from work, 1 brother lived with us for 1 year, the other for 2 years- neither one contributing 1 penny or helping with mom. And now he has the financial burden for my mom. I'll try to work more hours but I feel like I owe him so much gratitude...

RIZ~Welcome to the group!! I know how you feel about being shy commenting on people's posts. I struggle with that on different threads too. I have a certain amount of social anxiety and it is easier for me to comment here than in crowds of people. I do well one on one but when there are more people, I tend to be quiet. I am most comfortable on this thread because this is where I started. It will be a transition for you and your mother come Monday. You may not feel yourself relaxing right away, but it will come. It sounds like your mother will be very comfortable there which will make it easier for you knowing she being well cared for. It is great your husband is so supportive of you with your mother. Come back and let us know how you and mom are adjusting!!

Jessie~Classic mentality of a personality disorder is that they are right, everyone else is wrong. Why, I don't know, but they have to be right. I think it helps to keep their denial in tact and their unreality in order. My mother lives in a bubble and she refuses to grow or to see that her thinking is so distorted. I guess having to admit that you are wrong and have treated so many people badly is too much to accept about themselves that it is easier to stay in the bubble. Sometimes I wonder if there is a disconnection in their brain that causes this with them. People who were addicts that become sober or clean from drugs, usually make amends to the people they have hurt. They acknowledge their mistakes, grow from it like the rest of us do, but a person with a PD never does that.
Book~You really aren't wrong about the song, it's just the wording cuz you are right that in the song you can never leave. It's really a scary song when you think about it. I know I will never check in with a hotel by that name, Lol!!
Joan~I know the emotional hangover feeling as well. I am sending you cyber ((((HUGS)))) and hoping you are feeling better about the situation. When I first suspected my mother had Alz., I went to her dr. We then got together as a family and told our mother what we suspected. She blamed me for going to her dr. and making up lies about her. She told me to stay out of her life until I grew up. It was hurtful and I did stay away from her, I didn't call her, no contact. Of course, there is never an apology, but she ends up needing help with something, sickness, etc. where she starts calling again. If she did not have Alz, I would not have contact with her because it's safer and saner in the long run. I know it hurts deeply and triggers all those hurts from the past. The best you can do right now is love yourself, take care of you and know that we support you!!

Something is weighing on my mind today regarding my son. He will be married 3 years in November. Both he and his wife brough debt into the marriage. They took on additional debt to help her mother pay for their wedding (a beautiful wedding), that was way beyond all their financial means. We have helped them out finacially many times over the 3 years, either giving them the cash, buying them grocery gift cards so they could pay their bills instead of us, letting them live with us for a year rent free. During the year they lived with us, they were called daily from creditors, late on car payment, late on credit card payment, late on cell phone payment, etc. While they lived with us DIL went to school for more training on Massage Therapy. She worked until around April of that year then quit her job to basically start her own business. She rented a room from a woman who has an office with two rooms (she is a massage therapist also). They ran their business separately. It is hard to get clientel when starting from scratch and the woman she rented the room from was no help, she had a lot of issue, possibly PD. Anyway DIL accepted a job with a Chiropractor in San Clemente where her parents live. My son and DIL told me she was moving down south through a text message 3 days before she leaving. I was very hurt and thanked them for letting us know their plans in advance (sarcasism). She moved out in Oct. 2011 and my son move on Jan. 1, 2012. Since they left, both their cars bit the dust. My son's car...because he wasn't taking care of it, not changing the oil, or putting in more oil. We helped him with the down payment on this car and he qualified for the loan on his own at the time. We were so proud of him for that and really played it up. We have given them money 2-3 times since they moved to San Clemente. Her parents have helped them too. Her mother accused us of favoring our daughter and blah, blah, blah!! Her mother and I decided we would be cordial to each other due to our differences which she associates as religous because we don't go to church and she does. Where I see it that we are conservative and she is liberal. Maybe it's the same difference?? Her mother was very disadvantage growing up and it is important to her to have the best which cost her and her husband their house. What I see is a woman who has raised her children to be willing to extend themselves to get what they want instead of doing without now and reaping the benefits later like we have done. Recently I saw on F/B where my DIL bought a juicer, she listed the name and model #. I admit, I am nosey so I looked it up, Lol! It cost over $300. She and her mother are into all kinds of health foods, herbal remedies. I have no problem with health foods, herbals except that it is more expensive and if you are struggling already, why not be a little more conservative until you can afford to go that route?? I am feeling...I am really not sure because it feels like guilt and I admit I have trouble sometimes knowing what I am feeling due to dysfunction. I am sad, hurting for my son or something because he called last night wanting us to cosign for them to get a second car which they need because my son commutes 1 hour each direction to his job and DIL works in the city they live in. We told him NO! We are giving them money to help with the down payment but we will not cosign a loan with them. We could give them more money that we offered too!! I am feeling what feels like guilt but I have no reason to feel guilty. It just saddens me to have to be hard on him to get him to grow up. He's 32 yr. old. Thanks for letting me vent about this!!

What can we do about anything,just stay awhile and maybe learn.?

Sharyn, I totally understand how you feel about your son... we want to help, but it's not teaching them anything, and for my son, consequences mean nothing... it has been a very hard road with my son and me... I have FINALLY detatched, FINALLY... I let the 'guilt' or like you said, what ever it is, just run it's course now, and don't do anything until that feeling has passed... then I ask myself the question, am I doing this for him... if the answer is yes, I don't do it... don't know if that makes sense or not... but it has really helped me to not jump and do things that I resent later....If I stop at a fast food place and pick something up, I always think of him... but go thru this little ritual, is it for him... and I am not feeling so 'unappreciated' as he could care less if it was a 'thoughtful' action... so try to indentify that feeling, I sure don't know what it is either... I just know if I don't pay attention to it, I end up feeling used, abused, taken advantage of, ect.... all those feelings are self induced.... I called his dad to take him for his last surgery.... at one point during the day, I felt that 'feeling' for lack of a better term.... but he was fine, he did good with the surgery, him and his dad had some time together... ect...
And I am truly sorry you are having this conflict, but hope you understand when I say at least now I don't feel so alone with this... I know there is another mom feeling what I'm feeling, and trying to get healthy behind those feelings... so thank you for sharing your thoughts today... it was confirmation for me that I, at least for now, am finally on the right path in regard to him... I love him with my whole heart and soul, but do not like him sometimes, don't trust him, and that makes me sad... but I have finally accepted, HE is the one that brought those feelings about.... I work on myself to let the negative stuff go, some days I do good, some days I don't... but I know I'm not upset near like I used to be behind him... my son is 42......I think he truly is old enough to figure it out.... DUH.... thanks again for sharing today... sending you lots of "mama" hugs.....

Sharynmarie, it sounds like you've tried to do all you can for your son. I just won't to share with you that my father bailed both my brothers out over and over again and they never did learn to be responsible. One died at the age of 65- didn't take care of his finances or his health. The other was a dentist, but never learned to deal with life in general (he's in prison). My father did what he thought he should to take care of my brothers, but I don't think it allowed them to grow up and take pride in being self sufficient. I've often wondered if a little tough love and letting the, deal with the consequences would have helped them in the long run. I don't know your family dynamics so I I have no idea what's best in your situation. But it's something to think about. My heart goes out to you because I dont think anyone wants to see their children struggle...

I agree also with Ladee, no one wants to be used!

Sharyn, Hotel California reminds me of my addiction, and yes it was madness. insanity in one of the worst forms,,, definition of insanity... doing the same things over and over , expecting different results... and yes, I checked out, I'm clean and sober many many years now, but I can never leave, I'll be and addict until I die... just one that doesn't use..... This song was played at a friends funeral who died in a car accident, she was drunk.... nuff said...

Sharyn, I agree with what you feel and what everyone wrote. My oldest brother was an alcoholic. My mother bailed him out financially repeatedly for 30-40 years. I kept telling her to stop, that she was hurting him. If she did not let him hit bottom, then he would never grow up and take responsibility. But she was his mother. She would give him money any time that he or my SIL asked. She resented it, but she did it. My brother never took responsibility for himself, and his wife and children suffered. Thousands of dollars of what my parents should have been saving for their old age went to him each year. Ultimately his wife left with his abused son, and my brother ended up drinking himself to death at age 57. I don't know if the outcome would have been different if someone had not bailed him out over the years, but it couldn't have been much worse. The only thing good that came from an otherwise wasted life was two sweet now-grown children.

Sometimes tough love is the only way we can truly help. It is hard to be a mother and watch your child do without, but it is harder to watch their lives go down because it was too hard to say no. 32 is an age when he should be on his own two feet and buying nice presents for his mom!

Hotel California, where you can check in anytime you like, but you can never leave. The guitars on this song are the best. I love the song. I read somewhere that it is about cocaine addiction. I think Don Henley and Stevie Nicks were into the drug pretty heavy when they were together. Of course, I never know if the celebrity gossip is true. I just know that I love the guitar work.

Oops -- that should be "you can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave."

Sharyn, your bailing him out is only enabling him to stay where he is. If you are not able to stop this on your own, don't feel bad about seeking professional help because you are sort of caught in an emotional web that has been being made for years and is not going to be easy to get out of.

Hey Sharon, just sending you my love. You don't sound dysfunctional in the least to me. I went down that road with my son too. I think I told you about it sometime back. My heart goes out to you, but I am so happy you refused to co-sign. The writing is on the wall and you don't want to be left holding the bag.

The course your son in on is not a good one. He and his wife have chosen a very expensive place to live and are following in the MIL's footsteps. It's so hard to watch your child struggle, but if you just keep feeding their financial folly, nothing will change.

Worst case scenario, they will divorce and claim bankruptcy. The best news is that they don't have children. OMG, my Granddaughter was the light of our lives and we practically raised her. So just keep that thought in mind and count your blessings. I know it's hard, but if your son had a child can you imagine what your heart would be saying.

By the say, Sharon, you are an awesome lady and we love you on this thread or on the You thread.

Joan: I don't know exactly what happened with your mom. I apologize for not going back far enough to get clear on that. Did she tell you recently that she never wanted to see you again?

It's amazing how a parent will take something you are proud of or loved deeply as a way to twist their knife in your heart. I just want you to know I understand how that feels. My mom would do that to me when she was angry. It was very hurtful and at the time it just made me want to distance myself from her. Hard to do when she lived next door to me and needed my help daily.

I don't know why they do that. They can sing your praises on one day and dash you on the rocks the next. My mom was a strong person and for someone with a physical handicap, she went forward living her life and raising 4 children. Still she had fears and some self doubt and she would strike out at any who she considered a threat to her rule. Don't know how to put in any other way.

Joan, you are an amazing person and a shining example to all of us. If I could say one thing to you personally, it would be that I wish you happiness. Go forth and live as only you can and don't let the losses in your life keep you from having that experience.

Love you always Cat

Thank you all so much! You are all right on about enabling him. I never asked my parents to help us because I knew my mother would use it against at some point. We did ask my husbands parents, it was only a few times and we always paid them back. My BIL and SIL needed more help than we did but they paid it back as well. I don't resent helping him but I do know it is wrong. My daughter gets very angry about it not because she is jealous, but because she is disappointed in her brother. It makes my husband feel good to help him because that is how his family is. If it wasn't for his family, our kids would not have had much a Christmas for many years, they were very generous with all their children. Their helping was in nurturing not in enabling and we all got to a point where we can now give back. Though it is really hard for my FIL to let my husband buy him dinner or breakfast, he literally has to grabbed the check from the waitress or his father will take it. With my husband's family it is about pride to be self sufficient. I was not taught to have pride in my character...only in material things.
Cat~I am not as dysfunctional as I use to be. I was hurt very, very deeply back in 1999. It took me three years to walk through that pain...but in the process I grew up. Here I am at 54 and I know I am emotionally immature compared to other people my age but I continue to grow. I am so much more independent and self sufficient now. This may not seem like a big thing, but next month I will have my car paid off. I have made all the payments myself...this was something I wanted and needed to do for my growth. I am a much happier person because I now know I can take care of myself instead of expecting others to do it for me.

Thank you all again, I will work on not enabling my son, love and hugs to everyone!!

Sharyn, I'm glad that you do realize that you're enabling your son. I figured everyone said what I wanted to say, so no need to repeat it. May I also make a suggestion that maybe can help you and your husband deal with the guilt on saying NO to him. Because we know that there will be a next time.

My family considers me tight with my money. I'm not tight. I work very hard for my money. I will spend it frivolously for me (books). But I refuse to spend $35.00 for a lunch at some fancy hotel and brag about it (happens here all the time.) My family spends money left and right, no savings, and then they come to me for money...... I ALWAYS give them ALL a hard time..... Why? What is it for? Why can't you pay for it? Why can't your parents pay for it? I'm not giving you money for THAT! If it's for your child, I will give you the money. But you have to pay me back. If you don't pay me back, I will NOT give you money the next time. I tell them that I won't charge them interest but I do expect to be paid back. I don't care if it's $20/month - just pay it off. (I have a niece who spent 3 years paying me back for buying her a gold jewelry set here. It was only $190.00 but she paid $20.00 by mail whenever she had extra cash.)

Anyone who reaches age 18 is now an adult. They need to learn to PRIORITIZE what is important - bills or eating out? A used car (cheaper?) or a New Car? I think your son and his wife needs to learn to learn to Budget! :)

Book~Thank you! It's funny you use the word prioitize because when I visited my son back in May, I had a talk with his MIL. She accused us of not helping our son and showing favortisim to our daughter. Long story short, my daughter and SIL bought a house in Idaho before they got married. They did it all on their own with no help us or SIL family. Daughter and SIL decided to have a causal wedding...family bbq style. We gave them the money we were going to spend on a formal wedding (a simple formal wedding), $3,000. My son's MIL accused us of helping our daughter get a house and why did we not do the same for our son. I told her we have given our son and her daughter a lot of money since they got married to help them out so they could get caught up on bills and why would we help them get a house when they can't pay their bills now. We did without many things when we were young so we could have a house and my son and your daughter need to learn priorities if they want to own a home. She didn't agree with me so we decided because of our differences that when we are around each other, we would be cordial to each other plus I told her it was none of her business and not her place to interfer with our relationship with our son. Because of her religous beliefs, she believes she was holding us accountable to our sins by calling us out on that. When my son and DIL lived with us, I offered to my son many times for him to go over his bills and income with my husband because my husband is really good at budgeting but he (son) wouldn't do it. My DIL has a causal attitude about their bills, she believes that as long as she is paying, even if it is not on the schedule they agreed to, then the business can just wait until they have the money to pay it. She told me once, if I don't have the money, I dont have the money and I'm not going to stress, I will pay them when I do. Apparently she missed the classes at church on how to be a good steward with her money. It's not just her fault, it's my son's fault too.

Our daughters are 8 and 12 years older than our son. We were so financially strapped when the girls were little that they learned to be extremely careful with money. By the time our son came along, while we weren't well to do, we no longer needed to pinch every penny several times before spending it. He had a much harder time learning to handle money. Isn't it interesting how our family background affects our attitudes toward money? My dad had a great income but not much money sense; my in-laws never had a big income but were fantastic money managers. My folks ended up with so little and my in-laws have enough to take care of their needs.

Hi Austin,

How is your aunt who broke her hip?

When I read that your mom sounds as if she is in a very good place, financially speaking, I couldn't help but think of both my mom and my aunt. Both of them throughout their work careers worked together at the same companies. They too did quite well as they worked all of their lives in the aerospace industry. So in terms of what they amassed via property investments, and pensions, etc., for two women from the Depression era they did very well. My aunt, remember her-the narcissist? She had this hauty attitude when it came to her money. Now I never really knew my aunt nor mom during the Depression era. By the time we, mom's children were born, they were making $$. But I did notice as a child, whenever we'd be around other of their relatives, especially my aunt would put on this very arrogant air about herself for her personal financial accomplishments. Mom did it too, but demonstrated it in other ways.

Well, as my aunt's health started to really decline the last 10 yrs., until her death
she maintained that attitude of arrogance, and it played out heavily with the caregivers. She treated most of them as if they were her servants, and she thought she could buy them. Mother did this throughout most of her life, pre-ALZ,
w/we her children. Mother created enough havoc between we siblings. It's interesting how mother's or even as in our case her sister (who was constantly in our lives), can mold us at a very young age. But the important thing in all of this is to realize it at some point. Isn't it awful also, that many times in these circumstances the $$ our parents have, is how they perceive love in the family sustained? As I'm writing this, I'm realizing it could be bottom line why I don't have such a good relationship towards money.

Well Austin, I totally understand this feeling of having a mother, who is obviously oblivious to having a good daughter like you. Also, when a parent uses dissention
within the family as such doesn't make life easy, especially while caring for them.
O.K., Austin, I'm thinking of you! Much Love, Love & ton's of Light! Margeaux

Sharynmarie,

You made a wise decision on not cosigning for your son!
What kind of religious rules does this MIL follow, might I ask.
But I remember you'd previously wrote about her, and that she's been a user when it comes to money.

Now it sounds as if this idea about the MIL and all her shall I call them musings about your son and DIL buying a house is some fantasy. I completely agree with you, when you told her, how could they pay for a house, when they can't even pay the bills. I've had a few friends lose their homes the last few years. At the crux of it, is the fact that many people honestly live a fantasy in their heads they can live way beyond their means. Right now, given the climate w/foreclosures, banks and their illegal transactions, I'd say just on that alone one would have to be kind of looney to take a step in that illusory direction.

I had a friend recently, who considered herself an entrepreneur. She also was involved in the alternative health business. I'm not putting this type of business down. But my friend bought a beautiful loft space, she practically owned, (result of out of court settlement). Later, she thought she'd use this loft., as line of credit to take a mortgage out in a very hight priced area for a house. She'd been running a Yoga business, in a downtown area, (where people didn't want to be at night), hence poor business. This is when the classes were held. She was also working on some e-book about how she got well, had suffered an industrial accident.

But, her income was not of the 9-5 type. As time passed, and economy tanked
I sensed she was probably juggling credit cards to pay this, then pay that. Well, that only worked for a short while! Eventually her house was foreclosed upon,
and she had to Short Sale, the loft she practically owned! YIKES!! What a dumb move on her part. She got too big for her britches, basically! Interesting, I'm really no longer in touch w/her on account of this attitude, it's too high brow for my tastes!

But anyway, good for you that you stood your ground! This is the big reason my brother, "Golden Boy," behaves the HE does; because my mother, and even my dad (while alive) thought he was something super special, not acknowledging the fact that this son was terrible w/decisions about money, and very willing to ask my parents for theirs! Bravo! Stay strong!! Margeaux

Cat~Thank you for your support regarding our decision with our son. It hurt to do it, but he and his wife have to learn the consequences of not paying their bills on time and over extending themselves. My son has always been immature for his age and diffucult to get him to progress to the next level. He didn't leave home until he was 28, partly because paying rent on his own was out of his expense zone. Back then his only expenses were his car payment and cell phone bill, we had him on our insurance as a part time driver. We charged him $200 a month rent, not because we needed the money, but to teach him that all the extra money he had after the payment and cell phone was not mad money. I enjoy your posts as you always say what needs to be said and I appreciate that. The love and strength you have modeled in your situation with your parents is something we can all aspire to as we deal with our parents. Much love and many hugs to you!!

Margeaux~My son's MIL and wife are JW's. They do not celebrate Christmas, birthdays, or other holidays. They do celebrate wedding anniversaries. My son was raised traditional, went to church as an Episcopalian. He is giving up eveything for her. The only time he will celebrate Christmas is when he comes home. We will contine to acknowlege Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter, and birthdays with them because this is what we believe and if they have children, we will include them and do everything we can to teach them what we believe. It is what it is nothing more to say except thank you for your support and insight!!