The Caregiver & Dysfunctional Families: How are you doing?

Hi Emjo,

Yes, I went quiet for a few days. I kind of promised myself that I wouldn't give my problems wimy sister any energy especially on those two days. It was kind of a Feng Shui thing I was doing for myself. Thanks for asking Emjo, my New Years Eve was quiet, and I'm glad it was. The full moon on Christmas Day, kind of affected me, if you know what I mean. Much Love, Margeaux

Avidreader –I understand where you’re coming from. You have started several topics to find what you need. I just did a brief check. From what I read, most of them answered your question. Avid, what exactly are you asking? Are you looking for a specific answer that you will find Acceptable to You? I would recommend that you go do a ME time. Just go in the car/bus and take off somewhere. Just do nothing that has to do with bills or getting house supplies. Once you have found a Quiet Time for just You, if you have an iPad, please come back to AC, and Re-read all your questions. I’d like for you to meditate on the answers given to you. I think Jeannegibbs gave you some excellent answers on several of your questions. If need be, bring a pen and paper and free-flow your thoughts to each answer. Why am I resisting this answer? Why does it Not apply to me? Or to mom? The answers were given but you are resisting it.

Now, when I first started reading this site in June 2012, I was trying to find ways to improve caregiving for 2 bedridden people. I had 1 intense therapy and therapist had a family emergency. That weekend, I became seriously suicidal. I was helped here. One of those who gave me advice that I truly had problem accepting was Jeannegibbs. She told me straight – no sugarcoating – that my Brother-of-next-door has a Right Not to help my parents. He has his own life and his own family. Any one who caregives Chose to do this – whether voluntarily or not. In other words, even if I didn’t want to do this, I Did Voluntarily Stepped up to help due to Religious reasons. It is Our Parents Responsibility to have done something for their Old Age. Once I accepted that my 7 siblings have a Right Not to Help and all the other advice given, I ran with it. Hello? I’m a newbie here, and I did ask others with experience. Some I refuse – like just packing up and walking out – because even 23yrs later – I still must obey the Bible to Honor our parents. I just learned to accept it and to do other things to make life more livable.

Avid, it sounds like your mother is a Narcissistic person. I strongly recommend that you read up on it. Also, you must learn to Detach with Love and set Boundaries. Like I said, I’m a newbie and still very behind on these 3 stuff. It’s really all about educating yourself, knowing what you can and willing to do, etc… Please take that ME time away from home and figure out what you need and require to make your life more livable than what you're living with now. Sorry, maybe someone else can answer whatever answer you're looking for. Sincerely, Book

Book you may think you are a newbie but you have the voice of experience-you realize that with narcisic people you have to detach and not give your power away-that is very important to understand and you do. We usually can't change others but can change how their behaivors affect us.

Thank you Joan for the prayers that my mom be more cooperative. I also have others praying for the same. Today I was able to get my mother to pay for Dec/Jan payments on the Long Term Health care policy. She was refusing to pay it and I just told her she would have to pay more out of pocket without it. When I went over this afternoon, she had made out of the check and was ready to mail it. I lack in praying for myself but I do believe in the power of prayer and it is working with my mom. Thank you!! Hugs to everyone!!

Hi Avid-- I didn't have time to dig up my notes this morning due to limited time.
Discussions on Narcissistic mothers:
https://www.agingcare.com/search.aspx?searchterm=narcissistic

From Emjo - on Detach and Setting Boundaries:
https://www.agingcare.com/discussions/The-Caregiver-Dysfunctional-Families-149068.htm?cpage=0&cm=210298#210298

And if you go to the NEXT page of Emjo's post, she did give me more details on it. Just look for her post addressing Book.

I hope this helps. I'm thinking if you're asking How To Deal with your mom's actions, I'm hoping that the discussions on Narcissistic mothers might help you.

If you just need to Vent, please come back and tell us in the beginning or ending of your vent that You're Just Venting.

When I first got on the computer just now, I was filled with energy. Then I posted to MsDaizy and ... now I feel so sad. and tired (not tired of parents but...tired of the caregiving aspect.)
....I know that there are newcomers here, MyWits and Alabama.. Hi!
... Hi Margeaux - I had a quiet New Year's eve, too. I hate the guns though. I keep worrying that a bullet will come thru the window and hit one of my parents and me. One 8 yr old girl died when a bullet (which was shot in the air) came down and went right through their tin roof house. They were poor and lived in a wooden house with tin roofing. If I didn't fear the bullets, I would have enjoyed going outside to watch the fireworks.
Austin -- I'm still a newbie in the sense that I am learning sooooo much here. Before I found AC, I never heard of "Detach with Love" and "setting boundaries" and "narcissistic" With dad's oncoming senility, he keeps seeing people just standing there watching him - whenever he closes his eyes. He's recently mentioned having weird dreams. I just found today, a comment of this and the person mentioned LBD. See, I'm learning so many new stuff.
Emjo-- I enjoy reading your posts. I learn something new. And I'm glad that you take the time to give detail answers when I do ask.
Sharyn--I'm glad that your mom realized and did decide to sign the check. I wonder if she will continue to give you all a hard time just for the sake of giving you a hard time. Later....

Book~Hahaha!! It is my mother's nature to be uncooperative, to put on her armor and go to battle over everything. The Alz has magnified her personality. I called her friend Nancy last night to thank her for her and her sister's prayers, Today will be a challenge because we need to get her to sign a paper authorizing automatic deduction for the payment on this policy which she has been refusing to do. We also need for her to sign a paper for Charles Schwab that she has been refusing to sign since October. My sister has the paperwork but I will give it to her today instead of my sister because she really is uncooperative much more with my sister. I don't know if it will work but I am going to try. My approach is non forceful and I don't argue with her. I just present the info, she argues and I drop the subject and approach her again later. I reassure her that her feelings are normal for everyone in her age group. It's a hit and miss situation with her. Gotta go..have a great day everyone Hugs!!

Book~I forgot to tell you that your advice to avidreader was excellent!!

Well, there's been lots of activity post the Christmas gathering at moms and sisters. Remember I'd written what a disaster it turned out to be since my sister, & her daughters, then the SIL & her daughters seem to have a lot of tension going on. A day after Christmas my brother the husband of this SIL, called my sister to ask what had gone on Christmas Day, that he felt uncomfortable.
Mind all of you that my brother isn't the type of guy who shares his feelings at all.
So I had to ask my sister whether she thought our SIL may have complained to him. Anyway, I'd also written about the fact my sister's first grandson apparently was dissed first by one of SIL's daughters, then by the other daughter and SIL.
But I've also come to discover, just yesterday that my sister's daughter, the problem one didn't say hello to any of my brother's family when they arrived at my mom's house that day. Now this happened before the baby was dissed.
So this is why my brother said all of this to my sister. Doesn't this fall right in line w/previous behavior by this daughter of my sister's because she's done this to me on occasion at mother's house. This is exactly why I have said that all the parties involved have played some bad role in the whole thing. It took me a couple of days to get this out of my system, and I did. So now I'm just taking some measures to make sure I stay detached from this mess.

But isn't this interesting. You know that saying, "For every action, there's a reaction." This is at play here big time! My sister's daughter didn't say hello to her cousin's, aunt and uncle. Then the women here retaliated, by dissing my sister's daughter's baby. What a bunch of cowards, taking it out on a baby!!
At some point, I think I'm going to have to mention something about that to my sister, (her own girl's participation). By the way, when my sister told me about her daughter's behavior, it didn't sound to me at all that possibly my sister thought it was wrong. I think also at the bottom of this, although my sister plays the role of little ms. family gathering maker and she feigns not to blatantly come out and do some of these deeds as her daughter would do, the daughter does my sister's bidding for her in some way, dirty bidding I might add. My sister doesn't seem to get it either that by not encouraging her daughter to do the right thing, many people are paying the price. Now I'm not naive enough to think either, that my SIL, nor my brother guide their daughters in the best manner when it comes to social skills either, they're totally lacking in that department also. My brother's younger daughter pretty much slept in a chair at mom's almost the whole time she was there, and she is 18 yrs. old. When she woke up, she didn't really say hello to me either.
His daughters both exhibit behavior of tuning out, never participating, nor interacting w/relatives. Anyway, my two siblings have done a terrible job when it comes to interpersonal relationships where my nieces are concerned. My dad, who was big on manners and training us from a very early age to be polite, even to relatives who were rather questionable is probably looking down quite disappointed at this, I must say. O.K., everybody, hope you have a great day!
Margeaux

Book,
Some of us I think would like to ask for our husband's, mates advice about certain things. At least I do, especially about certain areas that my husband has more experience about. But definitely, my husband doesn't have that in the area of siblings, nor caregiving at all.
The other part about this, is that my husband many times gives unsolicited advice about matters that although he tries, doesn't have enough experience about either.
In my sister's case, she goes round and round w/her problems discussing them, and there's plenty of anger, many times. So one size does not fit all women either. Margeuax

Cmagnum,

How are you and your wife doing?
I hope both of you are well.
Yes, I do agree with you that some men can be the fixers.
Some times in the past, I felt that if I was sharing some of my feelings especially about mom and her ALZ, I must admit that he didn't know mom for much time very well, before she was diagnosed. So if ever say I've mentioned I' sense a real decline, which I can see because I've known her all of my life, he deflect to something like....."Well, she looks good." Even though I realize his intentions are good, I was somewhat disappointed, because really what I wanted was someone to listen to me, and not respond with anything, other than some good old moral support. "The Art of LIstening." It's truly a special thing. Some people have it, and some people do not. But I really think there is some truth to what you have written about the distinction between men and women in this respect. Thanks , and Happy New Years to you and yours, Much Love, Margeaux

Sharynmarie,

How are you?
I am so happy for you that finally a doctor seems to really be working in your favor with regards to your mom. Yes, just from your post when the eating is affected and it's evident from their weight, this is so telling. I remember that before we knew mom had ALZ, she was the one looking and taking care of her older sister. Mom never was the cook either. They both used to eat daily at a senior center they belonged to. But once my aunt was really more in decline w/mobility, most of the senior center activity came to an abrupt halt. This meant, mom was having to be more in charge of their eating plan at home. Well, mom who has always been the smaller and slender one, started to look very frail. I think this is also when she took a couple falls. So anyway, the things that are happening to your mother are really all those signs.
I know it's very recent, but have you noticed any change in her mood given the anti-depressant? I hope for your sake, and of course hers this starts to work positively.
I really admire that your family is pulling together on this front. Maybe your brother should have a talk with my siblings about teaching their kids something about responsibility! This is really great, that he wants his son to pay rent.
You and yours are totally in my thoughts! Hugs to you, Much Love, Margeaux

Emjo,

I read your post about spotting the narcissists. I'm really happy for you that you put your foot down, and didn't change your plans that evening! I too am coming into the reality, that my sister, her youngest daughter, SIL and her youngest also are narcissists. They remind me of a dog chasing it's own tail!! HAAAAAH!

After my sister had called to give me an update about our brother and his discomfort about Christmas Day, she invited my husband and me to join her, the daughters, grandson and one of their husbands New Years Day to watch a game and some lunch.. We opted out. I wanted to take a walk on the beach w/my husband and feel new energies. So we did!! I didn't change my plan. We passed an outdoor restaurant, and saw some friends there. So we joined them for a toast during a beautiful sunset. It had beautiful colors of orange and violet, amidst some clouds. It was a great way to start 2013! Good vibes, I'm all about that! Thanks for the reminder, Much Love & Hugs! Margeaux

Cmagnum,
Just a small clarification: I was talking about my husband.
Margeaux

Avidreader,

Welcome to this thread. It has got to be terrible for your mother to treat you this way when you are helping her. May I suggest that you contact your local Area on Aging, or other such agencies to assist you with various aspects of your mom's health. I notice that you've written you help her, so does that mean your mother lives alone? Maybe if you could find some outside help, then you could take a break for yourself, also. Much Love & Light! Margeaux

Margeaux~I think it may be too soon to tell if the antidepressant is working. Right before I got to mom's yesterday, she received a call from a company that works with PG&E offering a free service by enrolling with them to reduce your monthly bill. She went into panic mode over it because she just doesn't understand. I called them back when I got there since I thought they might be calling because she didn't pay her bill in Nov and was late paying in Dec. I told her everything was ok not too worry. When I got back to my house, I saw where she had called in the morning regarding the call from PG&E and her message was very urgent and panicked. I talked with my sister last night saying I thought it might be a good idea to have mom's calls forwarded to either her phone or mine and we could let her know that Nancy or Val or whoever calls that she needs to call them that way we can avert these business calls that are causing her to panic, but sis didn't like that idea thinking mom would figure it out.

Today has been a good day with mom. I took her out earlier to get a hair cut, made an appt. for next Wednesday for the dog to get groomed, and I sat with the dog and got her somewhat combed out. Her fur was really matted, especially her ears, and we waited for my sister to get there. I asked my mom if she would do me a favor and sign these forms. I went over them with her explaining what each form was for. My sister stayed out of the kitchen while I was talking with mom about the forms. She said she was confused, didn't know if she should sign them. She looked them over and I had to explain about 4 times what they were for and she finally signed them. No arguments, it took about 15 minutes to get her to sign them but it is done. The power of prayer works wonders and just being patient with her, teasing her and telling her that we all have to sign these kinds of forms, I know they are a pain in the A$$,etc. My sister is with her now for the afternoon, she will take her to bank to draw cash, take her to pay the homeowners insurance. All the junk mail mom had been hoarding, my sister found a $25 gift card from PG&E for saving energy by not using her air conditioner too much last summer. Sis is taking mom to Wal-Mart (using the gift card) to get some sweat pants to wear around the house since she is always so cold, and I gave sis mom's medicine for later so I don't have to go back over. All in all a good day for everyone here.

Well, back to the dysfunctional thread! Found out yesterday that my brother gets out of jail on the 17th. One of his sons (the only one that will have anything to do with him) is in coming in from out of town and I'm hoping he gets his dad settled far away... Another country would even be better. He lived with us for a year -almost destroyed my relationship with my mom (did for a couple years) and threatened my husband. He's got psych issues and no way do I want to be his caregiver! I feel so mean but I just can't go through that again....

Riz, I wouldn't either. He has so many chances to straighten up. He could have done that when he was staying with you. Remember, he's an adult now. Our actions dictate what kind of life we find ourselves in. Just as I have the option to seek therapy to help me (which I decline at the moment), your brother also had these options to Improve himself. Unfortunately, he may never learn to grow up and admit his past mistakes and Do Something about it. And I'd rather you be mean and stand your ground on NO, than to feel sorry for him and welcome him back into your life and cause havoc. Let his loyal son handle his father....I think that's a Very Large wishful thinking that loyal son would settle his father in another country. =)

Hi everyone!!

Today has been a kick back day for hubby and me. He went to Costco to stock up on some staple items and I went to the grocery store to get lasagna pasta and cheese. I made a big pot of Minestrone soup the other day and a big pot of marinara sauce. I over did the veggies for both pots and today added more beef broth to the soup and made up 6 containers to freeze for mom the rest I froze of us. We had spaghetti last night so today with the left over sauce, I am making lasagna and will take that over with the soup to moms later. To answer your question Margeaux, I am doing well considering all that has been going on. I does tear me up emotionally when I think how my mom is all twisted up with so much anxiety and fear. It reminds of when I was so depressed in my 30's and would get so paralyzed with anxiety that I couldn't function. When you add Alz and a personality disorder to the mix it must be horrible for mom. I am feeling good about the situation at this point. Sis told me last night she was literally exhausted for being so patient with mom yesterday. She doesn't have the patience I do with mom so it is a real struggle for her. Sis did say that it was a good afternoon with mom and she was able to joke with her a little. I am so glad sis and I can work together even tho sis can frustrate me with her strict rule following (like mom) with no grey areas to the rules. Next Wednesday is the appt. for mom's dog to get groomed and it is my dad's 86th birthday. After taking the dog to the groomers, we will stop at the cemetery to visit dad. Mom hasn't been out there in quite a while. Enjoy the weekend everyone and hugs to all!!

Spent whole day last week in court as evil sibling works to have mom declared incompetent. Sadly, my mother had fallen the day before and broke her shoulder, but Mom was in court, sleeping the entire time. The last recommendation from her guardian ad litem was financial person, no guardian of the person, because evil sibling is blocking me from visiting and mom wants to see both of us What a mess, but my narcissist sibling had no problem sitting on the stand and stating lie after lie after lie. Unreal. Waiting on final from clerk. SO sad to see the family laundry hung out for all to see. Dirty Dirty.

Going to catch up in chunks here - my cold got worse, sinus infection, triggered fibromyalgia -I am sure the stress of mother contributed and she is in a roll again. I'm backing off right now.
sharyn sounds like you have a good plan. Praise God for answered prayers. I so believe in prayer and see results in my life. Things are coming together for this stage for you anyway. I do hope the antidepressant helps. Guess we have to keep praying that she signs all the forms you need her to. Glad you had a good day with your hubby.
margeaux -glad you had a quiet new years - me too and glad you are staying detached.Sounds like those young peopke have no social skills at all, and that will hurt them in life, You are right one size does not fit all women, and sometimes all we want is someone to listen to us, and be supportive. I do think there are a lot of narcissists in your family. My dd can display those type if manners -or lack of too.
book - educating yourself helps so much, I find. We are all learning all the time, and from one another - we all need ME time
austin you are so right -you can't change others, only yourself
Riz - hi -absolutely no way can you be your bro's caregiver. You are NOT mean, just realistic and protective of yourself and your family. Don't let guilt creep in here. You are not running a rehab center and you are not responsible for him. I hope he can get the help he needs- as you say -far away. Stay strong!
alabama - so sorry to hear your mum broke her shoulder, but good that she was in court. It must have been horrible sitting in court, and listening to your sis. Your mum must be considered to be competent. Let us know what finally comes down from the clerk.
Well I wrote a letter to mother stating my concerns and limits if I am to stay as POA, but didn't send it. She is off in another tangent, so I will wait till she demands my involvement there she has already started hinting at it - and, use the last time as an example. Her doctor retired at age 80 - good thing I think, and she will see her new doc tomorrow. I expect she will not get on as well with the new one, but we will see.
Hope everyone is having a good weekend. My new year's resolution is to improve some aspect of my life in 2013 - to have a better year. Dealing better with mother is one of the top items.
♥, hugs and prayers Joan

Well, I sent the letter. Last nuight.this morning, I had 5 manipulative emails pressuring me, saying she needed me to get involved, that she had told everyone that I was handling things, to handle this latest thing, ( the homecare last night did not know how to boil potatoes apparently - motter is quite capable of showing her, though I question whether or not it is true) pretending that she does not know how to handle it, and similar matters, wanting me to contact this one and that one. So I said no, and sent her the letter. I said that I would drop being POA and block her emails if necessary. and that my health was affected by the stress of her pressuring, then accusing me etc etc, and that I could not be involved.
I have greater resolve with this as it became obvious to me last night that the safe meds I am on are not working anymore - that was the reason I have been so fatigued, had cramps and was sweaty at night. The bug must have mutated. I got up and took one of the pills I was on before, and within hours I started to feel better. Praise God! I have energy again. Woot woot!. I am not happy about the safe meds not being effective anymore, as the one I am back on can be hard on the liver. I have emailed the specialist and asked where do go from here. Prayers would be appreciated for a once, and for all answer to this infection. I do believe getting out from under the stress of mother is part of the answer. When I was reading the emails my first thought was "This makes me sick to my stomach" I guess it does, and I have to protect myself. Thanks for the support. ♥ hugsd and prayers. Joan

Alabama~ I am so sorry you and your mother are being drug thru a court battle. I hope you are able to state your issues and concerns before the judge and that you make sure that if your sister gets guardianship that you will be able to visit your mother.
Riz~You are not responsible for rehabilitating your brother. Is this the brother that you tried to help once before by letting him live with you and your husband? Please don't feel guilty about not helping. He has choices to make for his life and only he can make the right choice. You and your husband deserve your time together now.
Margeaux~For the life of me I can't understand people who will not acknowledge people when they come in their home. My husband has some family members like that too. I can't help but feel it is because there is strong control issues in his family. Sounds like you are doing the right thing by distancing yourself from their dysfunction.
Joan~Sorry you are not feeling well on top of all that is going with your mother. The rubber room has space available if you need it, Lol!! You have such a healthy attitude and you have distanced yourself quite well from your mother, but it is still difficult to deal with the behaviors of a narcissist even from a distance. If my mother had not developed dementia, my relationship with her would be very distant and limited. Your health is important so continue to focus on that and I hope you are feeling better soon.
Hugs to everyone!!

Joan~we must have been posting at the same time. I am sorry things are escalating with your mother and the infection. Yes, you need to put your foot down and takecare of you first. Prayers, positive thoughts going your way. Keep us posted and I hope the stronger meds clear things up without side effects. You sound like you are feeling better already. Hugs to you!!

a counselor once told me "If you think something is killing you, it probably is."

Thanks sharyn, I am feeling much better already. I have had no energy the past few days, but have cleaned the kitchen counters, have the oven on clean, am thawing the turkey carcass for soup, and have plans to go grocery shopping. I am sure the stress from mother is significant in this, and if I have to cut her out of my life altogether I will. It is not that I want to, but I may have to for my own survival. I have emailed the specialist and told her what is happening, and will call her tomorrow if I don't get an answer pretty quickly. I am still reading the book "When the Body says No", and it has opened my eyes as to how much these dysfunctional relationships affect out health. I ordered a new book
"Will I Ever Be Good Enough?: Healing the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers" by Karyl McBride. Of course, I know the answer to the question. For my narcissistic mother I will never be good enough, do enough, and so on. But one review mentioned that the book leads you through a healing process and to the point where you may want to cut contact. That is the part I am interested in. IU inow I am getting closer alklk the time. It is not out of anger, but self preservation - love of self, which has to balance love of others. Hope you have a great day. (((((((((hugs))))))) back to you!

((((((((((((envision))))))) thank you so much for that. I agree. In the past counsellors have told me to divorce my mother and sis. Recent ones see that I have good relationships, had a good career (retired now). have my life in order, and am healthy in many ways, but my "gut" instincts tell me that the stress from my mother is a root cause for this illness. It flared up "out to control" (and doesn't that phrase describe her) when I moved her out of her apartment into her first ALF, and the 5 ring circus has not stopped since then, nor has the infection.

Thank you again . Hope things are more reasonable with you and your dad. (((((((hugs))))) Joan

Emjo-Sorry to hear you're not feeling well. Stress definately affects us physically. You have to do what you have to do for your own health. I had to laugh though at the home health aid not knowing how to boil potatoes. You're supposed to fix that?by all means, drop everything and get on that! Good grief. No pun intended :).

thanks MyWitsEnd - another time it was undercooked porridge. Yes, I should immediately drive 5 hrs and discuss boiled potatoes with the social worker there, She makes everything into a Federal case, elder abuse, etc. Is home care perfect - no, of course not. They have too much to do, and she is pretty healthy. They do rush through their jobs, but she is well fed, and in a beautiful apartment. Some of the home care staff are recently from other countries and may not be familiar with our ways. More than likely she is watching them with a crirical eye, and it was not done exactly as she thinks it should be. She spends her days looking for things that are "not right", thinking about them, and making them into federal cases, and also seeing plots behind them.e.g. - this was done in order to force her out of her ALF. It is all part of a plan.... as if people there didn't have enough to do without spending their time thinking up plots. It is laughable, but what she writes me is not, and also triggers past hurts. My only solution is to give myself space/ distance and if necessary cut off the emails. The ALF and/or hospital can still call me if she really is in trouble. Like my health should suffer for improperly boiled potatoes. This is the pattern of her lifetime. We could not go out for a Sunday afternoon drive without her finding something wrong and having a temper tantrum, and blaming someone. Growing up with her was horrible. She hasn't changed -well she may have mellowed a bit, but not enough.

Hey Joan: Sending you some white light. Glad you sent the letter and I hope you can keep mom at the necessary distance. I really admire and respect your insight. Get well my friend. Love and Hugs, Cat