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Thx cat. Mother WILL be kept at a distance. No question of that, and it anyone doesn't like it their email be blocked too. It was only a matter of time, and the opportune moment. Truly I wish it wasn't needed, but my body is telling something I cannot ignore. Prayers much appreciated ♥
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emjo Stay strong. My mother's Health Care POA papers require 2 doctors to declare incompentency, and sib only had documentation of the one that SHE hired and will pay for out of my mother's estate. Still waiting on clerk for decision. All other doctors have said competent so she has to hire one (who did not interview me, by the way) to do her dirty work. OH WELL. I have had no visits with my mother and one phone call since Nov 24th. Unreal and cruel.
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thx alabama - I will. The support here helps. Sounds like dirty pool to me - - hiring someone who did not interview you. Could this decision ensure that you get to visit with your mum? Do you have any thoughts as to why your sib is like this? Brandywine mentioned her sib was a warden - sounds like that. Unreal, cruel and sick! ((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))
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emjo, prayer for you and your mom... consider sending her a nice card in the mail, every now & then. on the level she has capable of, i am sure she love you very much, and will suffer too much if she never hears from you. i know when my sister was upset with me, she didn't speak to me for about 2 years. i didn't even know why she was angry. i found out later that it was because she was jealous of the time my mom and I spent together. well, that being said, i guess my point is, it was very painful for me when my sister cut off communication completly. :)
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thx envision. My mum has borderline personality disorder and is narcissistic, so her emotional range is not normal. Anytime I give her attention, it is seen by her as an opportunity to play games for her benefit. It is her mental illness. I do not believe she has the same feelings as normal people do -for example as you did when you were cut off. I really do not think she suffers much when she doesn't hear from me. She just gets mad becaise I am not doing what she wants me to do, and then finds someone else to give her attention, I do not remember any warm hugs or touches from my mother in my whole childhood, nor any kind words. She just did not have it in her. I see in your profile your mum was your best friend. Mine was my worst enemy, and still is in some ways. She has done and said things to me that are terrible. It was a nightmare growing up. If you have not experienced that, I know you cannot understand. People with personality disorders ruin relationships, and narcissistic mothers are very hard on their children, especially their daughters. I do appreciate prayers, always, and continue to pray for my mum and sister.
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Margeaux, thanks for asking. My wife is doing very well with PT and they hope to soon have her free from the walker and using a cane. I'm on a roller coaster lately that I don't understand other than maybe I've tried to do too much too soon, but anyhow, I returned to the YMCA Wednesday night after being absent for the last 2 or years. I went around 7 pm and did the same thing on Thursday night. However, each night, I found it impossible to fall asleep and Thursday night was the worst, that is 5 am and had to get up between 8-9 to take wifey to the PT. Friday, I was stiff and sore plus tired. I don't remember when I went to bed Friday night, but I was groggy all day Sat. which I spent most of in bed. I have paid the price of two nights of poor sleep. On top of all that I've had some repeated flashbacks from my past. Last night, I went to bed at 12 and got up today at 12:30 pm. I did return to the Y tonight and tried to not over do it. Emotionally, I've been too easily irritated by things and have just wanted to be in my man cave a whole lot which I've done. I'm not sure that I can blame all of this up and down on my bipolar disorder alone. I'm going to see what my psychiatrist thinks of this when I see her in the morning.
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emjo, I often wonder about the impact of prayer upon various personality disorders in the sense of maybe prayer and fasting for those are tough disorders to crack. I've often heard that many women with borderline personality disorders are in our hospital mental wards when they need medical help and the men with borderline personality disorders are in mainly in prison. I agree that narcissistic mums are tough on their children! Before her major stroke and being so doped up to keep her stable, my mum was one, but she was worse when I was younger as we've discussed. The borderline mother is rough also and has a strong narcissistic streak. My wife and my SIL are divided about what their mother is. One says narcissist and the other says borderline. In light of the book, Understanding the Boderline Mother, I would say that my MIL is a combination of the queen and the witch borderline mother for her worshipfulness is an exact copy of 'mommy dearest', etc. need I say more. My wife wonders if her mother ever really loved her dad. I would question this too given how enslaved he was by her. He had been a shy 'mommy's boy' whom she just took over completely. They did not have an adult-adult relationship. He was a very intelligent and nurturing man, but she lacked any nurturing cell in her entire being from what I've seen and what I've heard about how she related with her daughters. I don't think narcissist or borderlines are capable of giving love and nurture except to appear to do so for the sake of what they can get out of the person. Dang, my mother even admitted when I was almost 30 that she knew that she had not met my emotional needs as a child or as a teenager. Then she claimed she would do better with her grandchildren which sad to say she didn't. I don't think she knew how to given the kind of mother she had and the overall home environment. Her mother never really built a close relationship with any of us grandchildren. Prayers continue.

Prayers, love and hugs to all and to all a good night.
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Cmag~I can relate to the lack of affection and nurturing from a mother with a personality disorder. My mother was never diagnosed with a PD but I have talked with a couple therapists who said that they cannot diagnose her without spending time talking with her, but they did say it sounded like she fell into that group of mental illness and that she could also possibly be bi-polar along with it. I think she has paranoid personality disorder because of her accusations, suspicious thinking, lack of trust with family members that was present when we were growing up and even later when all us kids had left home. With all the grandchildren, my mother could be loving towards them but only when they were little and she could not relate to her own sons or grandsons. Once the grandchildren got through the toddler ages, she stopped relating to them, no more hugs or any type of loving behavior. With her it was as long as she got unconditional love from them (the way a pet gives love and attention) she could give love and attention back. She never developed a close relationship with any of us kids or her grandchidren. I have noticed that if my kids give her a hug, she accepts it, but with my sis and me, she pushes us away. It boggles my mind that my mother was able to develop relationships with a couple of ladies she worked with for many years...they think very highly of mom and tell me how they just love her to pieces. Gotta go start the day, put the Christmas tree away for another year. My cat will be disappointed as he loves to hide under it and attack when we walk by, Lol!!Have a good day everyone.
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sharynmarie, thanks for sharing that. Sounds like your mother was and is very complicated. Have fun putting the Christmas tree away. I need to get the lights off of mine and then get it out of the house for the city to pick up. My day has started late once again for I found it difficult to fall asleep last night. In a few minutes I'll go see my psychiatrist.
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Just lost a post.
cmag - Not surprised many BPD are in mental hospital or jail.You have lots of personal experience with these disorders.
sharyn - sounds familiar. Mother does seem to enjoy short visits with her grands and great grands, but does not have much if a relationship with them
I received an apology from mother, but it was mainly about her, her home care issues, her health issues, etc as excuses, so nothing has changed, nor do I expect it to. My next move will be to drop POA., There is no way, as long as she is conscious, she would allow me to look after anything without gettng abusive about it. I can't allow that anymore as it is too hard on me.
Hope everyone has a good day.
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emjo You are strong and don't give up on your promise to take care of you. We all tend to give that away too easily. Sounds like the apology was not sincere. It is so not worth it, and I am very sorry that I got involved with my siblings crazyness. I should have just let her have whatever she wanted.
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thx alabama - I won't give up on my promise. I have come too far along this road. The specialist returned my email, and thinks stress is a factor in the flare-up I have had. It has happened before. I don't think mother is capable of a sincere apology - or rather the repentance that has to come with an apology for it to be sincere. I fully expect things with her to go back to her "normal" pretty quickly. She has backed off before for a little while, but always reverts to how she was. Your sister is quite a case - a real control freak! You are right - it is so not worth it. I am so sorry that you and your mum and kids are caught in this. ((((((hugs)))))
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hi all...I really need to vent... My mother & I just returned from "our" therapy where I have been torn to pieces. The therapist has told me to TAKE responsibility for my actions and my choices! She said it was my choice to have my mother live with me for over 30 years... !?! oh really? And it was my choice to sell my home in order to move her out of state due to health, and only to find that her older brother was loosing his mind? It was my choice to have to clean his entire acreage of trash and debris because he was a hoarder? The therapist now says that because my mother and I are so dysfunctional, it is time for her to live in assisted living or on her own. WHAT?! She is 84!!! Is this correct thinking? How do allow this? My mother and I have our money tied together as well as our home. The therapist hasn't even seen me to evaluate, much less had the time to help my mother figure out the basis of all her turmoil. True my mother is 84 and seems to be strong, but no one sees what I see. They dont see her breakdown in the grocery store because she feels overwhelmed and rushed!!!! They dont see her have a complete melt down at the doctor's office because they she just knows something is wrong!!! Now...how do i reconcile this new information with my therapist and to my mother? Am i totally wrong? To be told I am a codependent .... i get it. I read the books long ago and it isn't anything new. But to tell my mother she can live on her own with or without assistance when Ms. Therapist doesn't even have a full history or know of any aliments my mother has? Please...someone tell me that I have the right to be upset!!! I dont get this...i really don't. My responsibility is only to myself and I am responsible for my life as it stands right now? Wow....this blows me away. So...it would be responsible for me to just get up and walk away? Isn't going to happen.

We all have things in our past and present that we dont want to deal with, but we do because we must. My responsibility is to not just myself, but to my family. I might not like it, but it doesnt make me codependent. It makes me real. It makes me stronger for having the b^lls to do what others cant or wont. It make me angry cause I do the right thing. I dont get angel wings, I dont get a plaque, i dont get a salary....I get more resentment, more lines in my face and another 5 pounds heavier due to stress!!! And to top it off, I pay this crappy Therapist. Tell me im wrong please...tell me the truth.
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((((((((hollis)))))) I certainly hear you, that you are upset, and everyone has a right to their emotions. Without knowing more of you and your situation and why you went for therapy with your mum, it is hard to comment. You did make the comment that your mum is turmoil. In her health declining?

If you agree you are codependent, you are not alone and have something to work on. It is very easy to get enmeshed with someone you are caregiving. You sound like you are just about at the end of your tether. You have done a whole lot of caregiving, and it is a very hard job. Do you get any breaks?

Now you may not like what I am going to write, but this is the truth as I see it. If you just came here to vent, skip to the last line.

If you are not responsible for your life - who is? For better or for worse, you have made choices. I have been in the situation where I felt I had no choices, but later, looking back, saw that I did, but I didn't want to take them.

I can comment on a few things you have written here. I agree with the therapist that is/was your choice to do the things you have done. We all have choices. Some of then are tough ones to make and carry consequences, but we all have choices. That your mother might be best in assisted living could be the case. Some seniors are better off in assisted living. Again without knowing more it is hard to say. Facilities offer professional care, socialization etc. Since your mum is 84 it seems to me it would be wise to separate your finances. She will likely die before you, and you could have a mess to sort out with the house, and the finances.

I believe our basic responsibility is to ourselves first. That does not mean we have no responsibility for others, but it is important to have proper boundaries.

I am surprised that your therapist would recommend that you get up and walk away. Did she really do that? If a facility would be a better place for your mum, as a loving daughter you could look around for, and assist the process of getting her into one, and visit her while she is in there. If you are gathering resentment, lines and pounds it sounds to me like you need to look after yourself better, and put yourself first sometimes. No use throwing yourself under the bus.

My heart goes out to you for the years of caregiving you have given. Is it coming time to you to focus on yourself more? That can be difficult, but it is very important,

In any case big cyber ((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))) to you Joan
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Hi Hollis~

It sounds to me like are very frustrated and angry. I don't know enough about your situation regarding your relationship with your mother to say yes or no to the codependency. If you are codependent, it's not incurable, you can do something about it if it is true. this next sentence I copied from a website about codependency: Codependents are people who let the feelings and actions of another person affect them to the point that they feel like they have lost control of their own lives. These are just some of the ways Codependency effects human lives.

Sometimes we make choices to do things for others that we do not really want to do but we think we have to do it because no one else will. I agree that you made these choices. The hoarding relative is a situation that is done and I would let that go. What specifically causes all the arguments with you and your mother? Is this something new or has it been there all along. I had a therapist tell me once that I talked about my children as though they were a burden!! I felt the same way you do right now. After I calmed down, I realized that the anger I had towards my husband for not helping or being emotionally available to me, that I truly was seeing my children as a burden. I didn't like hearing it but it was something I could change and I did.

I agree with Joan that you need to sort out the house and finances and you need to put your life first. Has a dr. advised that your mother should not be living alone? Why do you think she can't live alone? I ask because I do not know what her health situation is other than lung disease that you have listed on your profile.

Assisted living is wonderful and there are many great facilities. We have a couple in my town. They provide transportation to shopping, appts., to and from church, activities and independence while providing support. You can visit any time, advocate for her, stay as long as you want, take her shopping or out to lunch but you have separate living arrangements and you can get together with friends, take a part-time job. It is a win win situation. Living in your bedroom certainly isn't healthy.

Take some time to digest the information the therapist gave to you before you do anything, but I definitely would start putting your life first, health, social,etc. It's ok to let go, you are a loving daughter and have done so much already. Hugs to you and come back, let us know how You are doing.
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Hi Hollis, I know exactly how you feel! During my first therapy in May 2012, I vented about none of my 6 siblings were helping me with the 2 bedridden parents. I concluded that my family don't love me. If they loved me, they would help me with the parents. I was shocked when the therapist replied back in a loud voice that my family did not love me - said it twice. I went home and those words circled my head. I woke up a few days later, crying and seriously suicidal. You see, the therapist did not know that he just destroyed the one thing that I clung to - that my siblings must have feelings for me - just because we'er siblings/family. I already knew my parents didn't love us, and I did't have friends anymore (no time to cultivate it when caregiving), and no boyfriend. So, all I had left in this miserable life I was living - was my siblings. When the therapist did that, and went off-island that weekend for a month, I fell apart. I had nothing to live for - but years of living in a prison caregiving the parents forever.

I found this site about 2 days prior to my decision to kill myself. So, I came on AC and posted for help. I was given similar advice that you have - advice that I rejected, and did not want to accept. But, a few hours of thinking about it, I accepted it. Because Hollis - my siblings Do Have a Right to Live their Own Lives. They do Not Have to care for our parents in their old age. It's our parents responsibility to prepare for their old age..just as you and I need to also think of Our Future....//... I struggled when I was told that each of us Chose to Do This Caregiving. At first I denied it. But when I really thought about it, I did chose to do this from religious obligations. I could have turned my back on God and say NO I will not honor my parents. So, yes, I chose to this - although unwillingly.....

My therapist did not tell me to leave my parents - obviously because they're both bedridden. But he did ask if there's a possibility for each of my 7 siblings to help by taking one day each for caregiving. For those living in the states, they can Hire Someone on Their Behalf. Wow, I liked his ideas but ..getting the sibs to agree are totally unrealistic in that sense.

Hollis, I was like you and fought against most of the advice given to me. Once I accepted it (the ones I agreed to), I no longer was so angry and resentful towards my siblings. But, I will tell you this that when I told my sister this, she was so angry. She said that she will be angry on my behalf towards our unhelpful siblings.
Wow, that was 7 months ago...
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HOLLIS you have been given a lot to think about-if there is a support group for caregivers in your area it would be benificial for you to attend. Start with baby steps -think about what changes you need to make to have a good outcome. You do need to seperate your financies first of all. You need to take your power back-what you have been doing is not working for you so you need a plan to get your life and power back-make a plan and follow through a little each day.
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Just wanting everyone to know Jam's husband passed away suddenly yesterday... prayers and hugs for her please....
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(((((hugs))))) to all. It is a horrible reality when you become aware that some of your family does not care about you. But stop and remember it is about them if you can. My evil sib is a narcissist who has no empathy. I am thankful that I can feel the pain I feel It is horrible and I too have felt suicidal at times, but I refuse to grant them that end. I am just glad I am me, but there are times I am so disgusted and so angry with it all. I am so tired of the pain.
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ladee - thank you for letting us know about jam's husband -what a tragedy

(((((((alabama))))))))))) I too am glad I am not like my sib or my mum. I agree with the "horrible", and that at times it has felt hopeless. But it isn't. I understand the disgusted and angry, and being tired of the pain. That is why I am further distancing myself. I need less of it. I have very little contact with my sib now. I confine myself to sending the odd e-card - Christmas, birthday. I refused her friend request in facebook - too many opportunities for games.
Big (((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))). Just do what you can to protect yourself.
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Emjo I think we are better people today for what we had to do just to survive our childhoods-and both of us have learned to detatch from those who do not have the right to treat us badly. Aformer sil asked to be my friend on facebook-I did not like her when she was married to my brother so why in heaven would I want to be friens now. I have also unfriended two people on facebook for posting dribble-boy did that feel good.
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Hi Hollis,
I was raised to believe that I had two choices if someone I love needed help. Either I helped them no matter what, even if my own well being was put at risk or I didn't which meant I was a horrible worthless person. I did not want to be a horrible worthless person so I became a martyr and was miserable. Things got really bad and thank goodness I ended up going to a fabulous therapist who told me there were other choices out there and that I was, at my core, a good and loving person. Her message was not that I "made my choices" rather that I needed to make more healthy choices in the future. She changed my life. Now years later I am able to make choices with my own well being in mind. I am better able to help people because I want to not to prove that I am not bad and worthless.
I'm coming on a time when I will be called to help my elderly parents out a great deal. I will need to make tough decisions and set good boundaries. I'm bound to make mistakes and I know there will be days when I feel backed into a corner. I am brand new here but I can already tell that there is great wisdom, advice and support to be had. Take care.
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Hi TryingMyBest, Welcome to AC! Hollis, from what I've read over and over here on AC, and TMB(TryingMyBest - shortcutted your name for now because I'm on limited time in the mornings) hit it on the nail, it's most important to find the Right Therapist. If the current one is not working for you, then find another one. I've been told several times, that it sometimes takes several tries before you find the "right one." So far, I had 2 sessions with the 1st one - and it is Pure Struggle in our sessions. I already know he is not the right one. My doctor told me that when I find one who can fit me into their schedule, grab him/her. But, obviously, he may not have needed therapy because if you're not comfortable to "Open up" then you will get nowhere in therapy - like I was. Thanks TryingMyBest for reminding us about that.
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Alabama,

This has got to be more than rough, not only dealing with the various health problems your mom may have. Also having to be up against such a difficult sibling. O.K., you're in my thoughts and I certainly hope the court rules on you behalf!
Much Love & Light! Margeaux
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Cmagnum,
You're welcome about asking for you and your wife.
Yes, I want to know how my friends are hopefully progressing with their individual situations. Many times, I've noticed posters who only come here to vent their own stuff and never ask how anyone else is doing. I think this is how we really connect with one another, and GIVE and receive support. I place a very high value on that,.

Have you heard that when one chooses to work out at night, that one's adrenalin get pumped up. This is the reason it is advised to abstain from doing so, could cause people to feel not like sleeping. Could you possibly schedule your work outs at an earlier time of the day? I don't know, could help. I think too, if you've feel as if you have been overdoing it, getting things done we become frazzled. This I know for myself, makes me feel very wired up, and can cause problems with sleep.
But it is great you are working out! Much Love & Light! Margeaux
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Hi Hollis,
First and foremost of all, since you've stated that your assets are intermingled with your mother's, it may be beneficial for you to seek getting this sorted out and separated.
In our family, my mom has ALZ, is 91, now. My aunt,(mother's sister) a very difficult narcissist lived in mom's home for quite sometime until her death last year. Our narcissist aunt didn't have kids. So mom's kids, (of which I'm eldest)
unfortunately inherited the care of our aunt, by default!! HAAH! Well, I can say that now. But let me tell you, just about the fact their assets were combined, because it has of course to do with family inheritance, (what mom w/leave us, 4 siblings) it was all tied up to our aunt. That made life oh so difficult, on a variety of levels for all of us, even the care of these two elderly women. It even impacted the decision about whether we had the right to place my aunt in a nursing home, at the end of her life. We had no right to do this. Another component was the fact that mother & her sister were joined at the hip, my aunt being the older of the two. Mom in no way shape or form wanted to be separated from the sister, and vice versa. In essence, my sister, brothers, and myself have had little say in this regard. I'm from a culture, that does their utmost to keep the elders in the home.
So, even if you're going to a therapist, (possibly by what you've describe-the not having enough facts), therapist making their statements, there are lot's of grey areas also. This intermingling of the assets, prevented the POA's in the family to make necessary and better decisions when it came to our aunt. Anyway, I urge you to like they say, "get your ducks in a row,' So even in the future when you are faced w/the dilemmas that surface w/caregiving you have things crystal clear in writing, and separate.
Isn't it interesting too, it's very easy for a therapist to state the obvious, "you're dysfunctional." But for that statement to be followed by,"you r mom HAS to move into AL, alone, that sounds like an ultimatum, and I do mean her choice of words.
You have every right to feel angry about that statement. Much Love & LIght! Margeaux
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Hollis,
Oh, I hope I didn't stick my foot in my mouth, re: when I said it's easy for the therapist to state the obvious, I meant, that I guess if we didn't feel dysfunctional, why would we go seek their help. I'm sorry if it sounded like something else.
Much Love, Margeaux
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Emjo,
Wow, that was a bold move on your part to send your mom that letter.
Well, I've been reading all the acting out she is doing right now, and shame, shame! But she'll never realize that.
She sounds just like our aunt. There was no reasoning w/her. She wiped especially my sister and me out w/her countless demands.
I hope you get better from your infection soon. You're in my thoughts! Margeaux
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Sharynmarie,
Congratulations that you could get your mom to sign the documents.
I know that this is more than an accomplishment.
O.K., w/keep you & yours in my chants, looks like it's helping.
Much Love, Margeaux
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thank you all for your comments...i am digesting them. It will take time. I asked my mum to get therapy for the last four to six years due to her increasing depression. It became so bad that we could no long communicate because she would twist what I said around to give approval to her negative internal dialogue. She has copd only 60 % lung, osteo, heart disease, high blood pressure, and (in my opinion) showing signs of dementia. She walks with a assistance of a walker. She refuses to go to any Activity Centers or church. There are no friends for either of us. My mother has not been diagnosed with dementia, but the doctor gives me the eyebrow when we go in. This is all the family. I have a brother, but he has never been any help, and hasn't spoken to mom for over three years now. Im sure this is major cause of her depression. There are no other members. It's just her and I. The finances & house are set up in both our names (AND/OR) to keep us both safe and we do have POAs and Healthcare Directives for each other. Again...thanks ...i'll pull out of my hole in a couple of days...But thank you for each response and hug. It is appreciated

I am so sorry for Jam's husband passing away (((hug))). May he watch over you now.
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