Why does this generation of elders expect their children to give up their lives to provide for their every need and happiness?
I read this forum every day, and keep seeing different variations on the same theme. Adult children are being expected, shamed, guilt tripped, manipulated- whatever you want to call it, to provide for their parent’s, medical and non-medical needs and wants.
And they expect their adult children to make them “happy”. The cost to the children’s marriages, families, homes, and finances is not taken into consideration.
All 4 of my grandparents were born between 1910-1915. None of them cared for their parents. Both of my grandfathers died fairly suddenly. Both of my grandmothers ended up in nursing homes with severe dementia that could not be managed at home.
My maternal grandmother did try to elicit a promise from my parents that they would take her in whenever she said. Then later in life threatened to haunt them if they ever put her in a home. That was in the late 1990’s. I feel like that’s the era when endless old age and for profit nursing homes arose.
There seems to be a romantic cultural mythology that children have taken care of their parents at home since the dawn of time. I was listening to an historian on NPR who said that was largely untrue. Most elderly, who did not die of a heart attack or cancer, died of pneumonia over the course of a single winter (at least here in New England).
I’m sure many of you have thoughts on this.
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I am curious as to what led you to become a death doula.
It must be a fascinating experience for you to do this as your calling.
Is this a field that is growing in popularity or is it more of a specialized area?
I am glad that it is a fulfilling line of work for you.
How do you get most of your clients?
I believed that to an embarrassing age, probably 40, when one of my kids said. Are we having kill the Indians day this year. (Thanks giving) it really turned on a light bulb for me.
Now I'm a huge history buff. I firmly believe the best way to prevent past mistakes is to learn about the past, care about the past. Unfortunately there are a lot of people that still believe the fantasy land are middle grade schools taught us. And they don't care about the past, which scares the dickins outta me. They live in such a ignorance
It’s painful to think about what happened in the past in Canada and America regarding the abuse of Native Americans.
It’s absolutely disgusting what the Native Americans endured, both children and adults were horribly abused by ‘so called’ Christians.
Parents were lied to and told their children would be educated if they allowed them to attend the Catholic boarding school. Their children were forced to forget their heritage and had unspeakable crimes committed against them.
I am appalled that this went on in your country. Everyone should be made aware of what occurred. It’s extremely difficult to watch the excellent documentaries that have been shown on these devastating events.
I understand how you feel. Sadly, the abuse of children has never stopped. It’s rampant in our country too. It can destroy a person’s faith in organized religion.
Sorry my friend, I don't 'white wash' anything and I'll be passing on the 'white guilt' thank you very much.
I take responsibility for MY actions and deeds. Not for things that went down long before I was even born.
We’re a predominantly white Christian continent (North America) but we whitewash our own history to justify our actions. It is so much easier to swallow than the truth.
I’m Canadian and our history of First Nations abuses is appalling. All the while I was taught in school (1970s) that we were saving the “savages”. My youngest two have been taught the revised curriculum. It is difficult to believe we once thought that way as a country.
Travel more, learn more, question more.
When I lived out west I had a relationship with a Lakota man. He was beautiful and may he rest in peace. I can assure you both that his grandparents who had serious care needs (Grandmother had dementia and mobility issues. Grandfather was in a wheelchair and had severe COPD) were not left out the plains to be eaten by wolves and vultures. His parents and relatives took care of them. He took care of them. Hired homecare took care of them too.
His family managed the care of these two better than any family I ever knew and I did this line of work for 25 years. So really, whatever either of you studied or may have heard from actual scholars really isn't the same as seeing and experiencing something for yourself. I saw and experienced this wonder firsthand and it was beautiful. No one had resentment towards them. No one was fighting about who had to do what and no one felt like a care slave. The grandparents did not behave like the entitled bullies that most of us had experience with.
So, whatever went on back in the Stone Age could probably be said about all humans living in groups.
@JoAnn
The Trail of Tears? Are you even serious right now? That was a planned genocide. It wasn't just the elderly being left behind. It was the kids and anyone else who couldn't keep up. I can't even believe what I'm seeing from this thread.
Are you a cultural expert on Native American nations and their tribal customs? If you are not then you really can't make such a statement like the comments you've made here because they are very offensive to Native Americans."
Burnt, I’m glad you brought this up. I’ve been a student of cultures for most of my life. I’ve traveled extensively to 37 countries and to as many states for work research and for pleasure, including once as a member of a prestigious cultural delegation and having all expenses of that weeks-long trip paid by the faraway country that invited me. My grandson earned a degree in anthropology and is a working anthropologist. I admire in one way or another all cultures that I’ve studied. Human beings have, out of necessity, devised various ways to survive. Senicide is one of them. Infanticide is another. It’s not disparaging to mention that a society abandoned their old people or their babies. This is history. It happened. It’s human. We are wired to assure that our group survives, for without the group, individuals will die and our species could cease to exist. In good times, when there are enough resources for all, senicide or infanticide isn’t likely to be practiced. We live in comparatively good times.
I have a friend who survived the Cultural Revolution in China. She was born in 1960, and she had five siblings. Food was scarce. They lived in a remote province. When she was born, her father carried her to the Peace Room and left her on top of a pile of bodies. The Peace Room was where the village disposed of their dying and dead prior to cremation. He regretted it later that day and went back to get her. She grew up knowing that her parents had initially thrown her away because they doubted their ability to feed another child. During Mao’s Cultural Revolution, 1966-1976, people in her village ate anything they could find. Songbirds, insects, plants. A person would come running into the village to tell them when old people in nearby villages were about to die. Her mother, carrying a large basket, would hurry there, and when she came back, they had meat. My friend doesn’t know - and I don’t know - if the old people were killed or if they died naturally. It could have been either.
As for my latter years, I’ve devoted many of them, as a family caregiver, to the survival of old people. Reminder: We have no idea who our anonymous posters are or what their accomplishments might be. Today I’ve revealed some of mine.
Informative article about senicide: “Growing Old With The Inuit.” https://nowheremag.com/2015/04/growing-old-with-the-inuit-3/
My MIL NEVER had any expectations of anyone taking care of her. She was planning their move to ALF when she unexpectedly passed away.
My grandfather - who would be 100 now if he had lived - never had any expectation of anyone taking care of him. We didn't realize how much he took care of my grandmother though - or maybe spoiled is a better word.
My grandmother - 98 this year - is an interesting amalgamation of "I don't need help!", "Promise me you won't put me in a nursing home." and "I can take of myself." My mom has been taking care of my grandmother now for 3 years - in GM's home because she refused to come here. GM THINKS she is completely independent and doesn't need my mom. But she completely falls apart when mom leaves for the day. SHE thinks she is rescuing mom from sharing our home because she can't understand how well it works for us and how quiet it actually is lol. But she NEEDS care. And honestly I can't see my mom ever putting her in a SNF no matter how hard it gets - because she is an only child, parentified very young, and raised in a culture of guilt - so it's instilled in her.
I saved the best for last lol. My FIL. at almost 90, he weighed over 300 pounds and was mostly immobile. We kept him home for as long as we could. But there was a line that we couldn't cross if he couldn't get himself out of the bed and to the bathroom. My BIL and SIL moved in (of their own need) and became default caregivers. And that was more than anyone could ask for obvious reasons.
But unlike MIL - who he somehow didn't plan to move with if she went to ALF - he had 100% expectation that his children were going to take care of him. That was always the plan. He literally told my DH that he needed to leave me and our children and our home to come take care of him when it became too much for SIL. We weren't invited, only DH.
He ended up in a SNF because his care was beyond us (and of course DH leaving was just laughed off...but FIL was very serious. He never let DH stop paying for not doing his will. Insults like "man up" and "Grow a pair" were thrown out with regard to telling me he was going to go live with this dad and help him. DH said "Dad, I am 'manning up' and 'growing a pair' and telling YOU no! That's not happening!"
FIL demanded everything all the time and everyone was supposed to sacrifice everything to give it to him.
I think more than anything - it depends on the person - not necessarily the generation. I know plenty of people MY age (50s) that expect their kids to take care of them later in life, don't have any retirement or plans. I can't wrap my head around it.
i had enough and stopped. She conveniently forgets how I helped
her since my brother and SIL are now doing all the heavy lifting. Ive tried to keep an open dialogue with them but not much communication. My mother expects to be taken care of and says she doesn’t want to go to a “home.” She has a paid caregiver 20 hours per week, but she treats this woman terribly, and whines about how much she pays her and how dumb and low class she is (not shocking because this is my mother’s style but still disturbs me). I’ve heard rumblings from family members about my lack of interest but I don’t care. Admit it sometimes has been difficult to resist the urge to do my “share” but I’ve resisted so far. She holds the inheritance card also. I will not play that game with her. She also has free will to do as she pleases. She’s perfectly fine with being a burden and having a very low quality of life.
I think about that incident every time I hear this phrase. I never say it myself though. :-)
My parents never took care of their parents. I didn’t know my dad’s parents. They died before I was born.
I knew my mom’s parents very well. I adored them. They were fiercely independent and didn’t require any care from my mom.
So, there was no frame of reference for me of my parents caring for their parents.
I raised my daughters to be independent. So, why would I rob them of their independence if I should need care later on? No way, will I ever expect them to care for me in my older years.
The grooming and conditioning out parents do to us is a form of abuse. However, when we become adults we decide how much power that grooming and conditioning is going to have over us.
At some point tolerating our parents' abuse and manipulation becomes a choice. Adults can choose to walk away and go. Children cannot and no one here is a child.
@Laura271
Good for you, sister. You dodged the bullet by refusing to do caregiving for your parents. I'm glad you learned from many people's experiences here on this forum.
It's an old tactic dangling the inheritance carrot in front of adult children as a means of controlling them. Good for you telling your step-mother where to step off.
As for your mean grandmother who lived to 105. You know what they say.
Only the good die youg. SMH...
Reading so many posts from those of you who are doing the caregiving for such long periods of time fills me with so much empathy and pity.
Alva once said to one of my posts that I had been "generationally trained", and that really stuck with me. I think that applies to all of us.
My parents were quite vocal through the years that they expected me to care for them. Even though they hated all the caregiving they had to do for their parents.
My divorced parents live separately - my dad lives with stepmom, and my mom lives alone.
Both my parents remained in the small town where we all lived - I got away from there when I went to college on a scholarship, and that's where my DH and I met. I never had to move back to where all the parents lived. I'm so fortunate that I live over 6 hours away in another state.
My dad had 2 parents who didn't save enough for their old age. His dad died of cancer and his mentally ill mom caused a lot of trouble for my dad. She spent money recklessly and at the end of the month often needed financial help. My dad had to mow her yard every summer and do home repairs. He was still working then and had his own place to take care of too. His mom would call him in the middle of the night wanting something. He said she drove him nuts. He finally placed her when her physical condition got worse. He said it was a relief when she finally passed.
Dad's grandparents all lived to their mid-late 80s. They were cared for by female daughters of those families, but his mom and dad were not involved in their own parents' care. They got off pretty easy and then my dad went through hard times with having to care for them, and he resented it.
My mom lived with her parents for many years. She was a little child-like in that she never lived on her own. Her dad was a sweet person; he didn't require much care before he passed. However, her mean mom lived to be 105. My mom used to call me and complain about her mom and I remember her saying she wished her mom would die so that she could have some peace.
My mom's parents never had to do any caregiving for their own parents. Ironic that my mean grandmother lived to be so old.
Despite both parents having such bad experiences, they said things to me through the years about how I should help them once they got older. This baffled me since they had such bad experiences with their own parents, and when I mentioned this to them they both had a lot to say about my "selfishness" and that "children owe their parents", and all the usual manipulative comments.
Last year my mom had the audacity to tell me to build a room for her in my home. I have refused since I wouldn't last a day living with her and my DH hates her. I will not sacrifice my marriage for her. My dad has dementia and stepmom recently wanted me to go over there and take care of him for over a month while she had surgery. I refused that request too. I have gotten a lot of criticism from them because I won't give in to their demands, and some of my relatives in that town have sent me some very mean texts and voice mails about my "terrible treatment" of my parents. That has been hurtful but I don't bother responding to such BS. Stepmom even sent an email saying I will be taken out of their wills. Whatever, lady, go for it.
They expect it because they have seen others in their families do it, then they felt like they "had" to do it in order to be well thought of by others in that little nothing town. And now that they are older they have become manipulative and entitled jerks. No thanks.
It's such a shame that people live so damn long these days. They aren't happy or comfortable and they want to make sure that nobody around them gets to be happy either. It's completely crazy.
@way you really hit the nail on the head for SOME elders “Because the current elderly saw leaps and bounds in quality of life compared to previous generations . They are spoiled and they do not want their lives to change .”
My husband and I have a more expensive house than my parents. It’s no bigger than mom’s house but it was much more expensive anyway, due to the market. We are still paying a mortgage even though my husband is retired and I work less than full time since I have been helping mom.
My mother thinks we have it made. However we never lived on ONE, income. Both my husband and I have worked since we were young teens. My mom got her first part time job outside the home when she was 40 (she married at 20). She worked full time for maybe 7-8 years total. Yet she says she always had a job.
My husband and kids never took a 2 week vacation (growing up, my family did every summer). They had a backyard pool, and put a huge addition onto their house. I could go on.
My grandparents, both sets, lived in a 1200 sq/ft home with one bathroom and no garage, and never aspired to anything more. They saved their money. I remember my grandmother commenting on the thousands of dollars my mom would blow on Christmas every year.
Which reminds me. That’s what mom did for her parents; planned lavish holiday and birthday events that my working father shopped, cleaned and cooked for. She would always have them over for the day. But actual care, or even bringing them to the doctor ? No. Mom turned a blind eye when her mom clearly had dementia. I maintained grandma in her home, which I realize now was dangerous an inappropriate. I also had a toddler at the time.
You are so right, Way, mom stayed at home for 20 years and had a pretty darn nice life. Of course she doesn’t want anything to change. As I said in my very first post she also had a doting husband for 43 years, and then a BF for 15 years who practically worshipped her (he was old enough to be her father).
ITRR, you are also correct. At the heart of my misery is my inability to stop allowing her to pull my strings. I have hired a ton of help and set boundaries, which for me is a pretty big deal after being in the FOG most of my life. But for this homecare nightmare to really end, I will have to take her to court to be declared incompetent, so I can place her, and she will probably win.
Which leaves me the option of walking away. Despite everything, I won’t do that. I guess that’s why I’m on this forum every day looking for some answer that doesn’t exist.
I fully agree. I was recently discussing this topic with a friend. We decided that, my current situation is going to likely be difficult one way or another with no easy solution per se . It is what it is. I will do what I can to survive and look out for myself. I am learning fast.
The best thing I can learn and do is, to educate my son about what happens when parents age. To prepare myself for my later years. To make sure I've reasonably saved enough, and set up documents well ahead of time. To make sure the same situation between me and my dad does NOT repeat for my son...
I’m right there with you . You aren’t alone . It’s hard to set boundaries when you were brainwashed . Your aren’t an idiot .
When my father died, and then my husband, I got “You had your chance for happiness and it’s over.” When I remarried the demands increased and worsened as my children were born. I bet she perceived them as threats. Having kids of my own really opened my eyes. No way would I treat my kids like that! (also made me question the cruelty of religion)
Dementia certainly exaggerated her behaviour, but I doubt she’s had dementia for 30+ years. And she did not help her declining parents. Monthly visits at most.
I am left questioning so much. Believe me, I feel like an idiot for not recognizing the manipulation and standing up for myself decades ago.
1) They had relatively spoiled lives compared to previous generations and they don’t want things to change .
2) Fear .
Much easier said than done if you were brought up purposefully isolated , abused and groomed for servitude from birth .
My mother even used to call me Cinderella .
And why give the senior brats behavior a pass and blame the elderly care problem on how the children react ? SMH
The answer is educating people to prepare for their elderly years . As well as this country becoming better at resources to care for the elderly as well as giving the suffering elderly “ an out” if they choose . Until that happens many are stuck because the only other option is to walk away and leave the elderly without care or an advocate .
I have many friends that are in their 80s and 90s, none of them have the expectation that their adult offspring will forsake their own lives to prop them up.
Bar none, they are all appreciative of everything anyone does for them, because being old comes with challenges we don't face, they are a pleasure to be with and they have happy dispositions. They acknowledge their need for assistance and ask kindly for that help and accept it graciously.
I believe that learning to not let anyone, mom, dad, grandparent, spouse, etc. dictate to us, at our own peril, is far more important than what the senior is trying and often succeeding at doing.
Time for people to accept responsibility for their own decisions, regardless of who gets mad or throws a tantrum or takes them out of the will or the thousand other things people do to manipulate others.
Just my opinion.
Excellent story about the woman who expected her kids to just pack it all in and become slaves to her in her old age. My mother is like that. When I was struggling I moved in with her and agreed to help out. She never cared much for me at any time of my life, but wanted me by her side 24/7. She was not kind and decent to me. Complained incessantly because I didn't work (yet all I did was work) but then would work herself up into panic and crying if I took some work because I wasn't with her all the time.
These elders like her who expect their adult by their side round-the-clock then get very upset when that adult child asks for $10 for gas because they drove them around all day. These seniors not only expect their adult child to become a full staff of domestic servants all in one, but to be the entertainment and companionship as well. You're also supposed to come with a Swiss bank account because they want you to be able to somehow mysteriously pay for everything so they don't have to spend a cent.
I lived this way, Then I knew I had to walk away and so I did.
@waytomisery
I've been told the "that's why I had kids" nonsense by my mother too. Then I remind her that the real reason she had kids was because basing your birth control on the phases of the moon is not effective.
I think that was their plan all along—do nothing so their kids would have to just assume the role of care slaves by default. We just got sucked into it.
You described my mother , including
“ That’s why I had kids”.
My mother was also irate that we had her use her money to pay for my father’s funeral and then to prepay for her own . She wanted her kids to pay for it .
"I'm to be an invalid" grandma sad, to all her friends on the phone. "My daughter's will have to tend to me "
Daughter 1 (my aunt) was a full time teacher with 3 minor children.
Daughter 2 (my mom) had three of us also, including my 18 month old baby brother.
Grandma was sent to "rehab"--a new concept for middle class folks. Now that there was Medicare, it wasn't just rich folks and soldiers who got rehabilitated.
"You're sending me to live amongst strangers?!" wailed my grandma. She never forgave my mom.
But I learned that you CAN say no to ridiculous demands, even if it's your mother making them.
My children will need to come & look after me. Move in with me.
🙄 Right. What do they do again?
One is in the military, posted overseas. Married with kids. The other has a farm, married with kids.
🙄 Right. So you think one of your grown children will leave their career, spouse & children to move in with you? Leave the military or leave the farm? Just go without their income?
Well they will HAVE to! I'm their Mother! That's what you have children for! I don't know what else to do!
🙄 You will have to make changes.
YOUR life is changing, therefore YOU will need to adjust & make changes.
No no no, I don't want to change MY life. I like living in my big house. It's just big & so I need my kids to come & clean it. I'm getting old so they have to come & cook for me & drive me (when I can't). I will only have the aged pension money to live on, so they will need to pay the bills too.
😶 Wow.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Gosh I needed a good laugh..
Well good luck I said.