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I'm going to take a stand against the anti-Anne trend and support as well as agree with Anne. I can see that this thread is beginning to take a agree with or disagree with direction, and I don't like to see that because the underlying issues get bypassed.

I think Anne has very well articulated her position, much more so than many people who post here with rants and raves and can't even answer questions.

I suppose many are putting themselves in the position of the second wife, which is understandable if that experience is part of their life.

The bottom line is that the man in question is her father, and she does have a right to protect him and be concerned for his welfare, which doesn't seem to be the concern of his wife. Maybe it's only been a short time, but based on what Anne is reporting was said by the wife and her family, I think Anne is wise to be proactive in this situation.
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Wow, I see, that in predictable fashion of hiding in the internet, the clique on this blog is in full swing. I am not apposed to good concrete advice. But it does not benefit me or any of the other people in a similar situation when the purpose of the question is answered with so much contempt. Actually, I am pretty sure that some of these responders do not know how to stay on point or have a clue as to what objectivity really is in a response. I am convinced most of you read and answered the responses based on what you already felt....I think that is called preconceived response. Some of you must already have your defenses up as you refer to yourself as The Second Wives Club. I have much to offer as a supporter and advocate for the elderly . I also have been active as a special education teacher , so I am not blind or opposed to opinions. But what I see and read hear is nothing more than a coffee klotch of responses from those who must be trying to defend their own self worth and have little to do with the plight of others.Best of luck to all of you who continue to subscribe to this forum. Thank you for anyone who took the time and certainly to the last responder.
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I don't even know why I'm getting into this but I think Anne's original post and her defense of her situation ring very true. I respect Rainmom and Jessie as valuable contributors to this forum but I disagree on this one. It would make me a little angry to see the knives of the second wives club coming out after responding to all the questions as clearly as Anne has.

I have seen all kinds of rather goofy posts on this forum go on with hundreds of entries without these demands for verification. Anne asked a simple question. Whether she's an evil,stepdaughter or not is not the issue. Her Dad is being upset by his sort of ex wife. This is clearly happening. I don't need any more verification.
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Rainmom, I just read what you wrote. Glad to see that someone sees the same things I am seeing. If I were this woman, having the step-kids pushing at me like this would have driven me crazy. And she couldn't say anything, because they were his children. It is a bind to be in that I know very well.

It is a credit to this woman that she hung on for 32 years. I can tell that this one step kid has no love lost on her. It sounds like the animosity has been going on for many years, despite the yada yada of saying "they" were trying to stay out of things.

It sounds like the kids have everything under control now and the woman is just coming in and out of her home when she needs something. And this is even resented. Brother!!
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BTW, do you realize the negative words you chose for describing her? She dragged him to the doctors, instead of just going with him. She was denying him access to care, instead of allowing him to stay home where he probably wanted to stay. I have a feeling you could look in the mirror and see a lot of the reason your step-mother left. I had a piece of a step-daughter at one time. The thought of her now still makes me feel ill.
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I read a little bit of that and have to admit I read it with a slant. I am a member of The Second Wives Club. You are talking about an elder woman like she is a purposely evil, neglectful woman. But from the little I read, it seems like just the opposite was true. It is just that she couldn't do anything to please you and your siblings. Goodness, I don't blame her for leaving. He was not the same man she married, and there were these kids around sniping at her. It all sounds like "You're not my mother!" to me. Those of us in The Second Wives Club probably understand it better than most. We've been through it.
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Some more of the back story....She willingly gave up the POA years ago as her family said she was not willing or able to provide the care. For about 22+ years no one interfered with anything that went on in their marriage. Not our place or right to do so. We only become involved when we realized she was not able to face the fact that her husband was diagnosed with dementia/ALZ. She dragged him all over to different doctors looking for the diagnosis that would be the most appealing. She was denying him access to what is considered the finest resource in Pittsburgh for Geriatric and Alz care. This man is currently not a candidate for a memory care unit at this time. I have seen them, been there, taken care of another who was a candidate and know the difference. Obviously there are those who do not agree here that aging in place is acceptable and a better option if it can be done . So quite possibly were there different motives when this spouse viewed a memory care option for her husband as a better option for her, not him?

It would be ideal and is a thought that he should move to a place where she does not feel ownership. It is an additional expense though and so maybe the available funds would be better spent on his care at home. He has lived in this house for 46 years and we are hesitant to change that familiar surrounding. He is not in a wheelchair and is quite mobile . Does he need the additional mental confusion of a missing spouse and an unfamiliar surrounding? I wish I knew.

And just to be quite clear on the math and length of marriage, there is no objection to her traveling....both of them traveled extensively together for many many years. She continues to travel as often as she wishes and has never needed to worry about who is taking care of her husband.Ever. Based on what I read here other caregivers would give anything to have 3 hours once a week of respite time versus 3 weeks every 2 months.
She has three children who made a decision to move her out after she was reported to Social Services . The caregivers had to report her abusive behavior of Dad to the company who they work for, who in turn notified us. We had been informed that she was frequently pushing him, pulling him, denying him a nap and hiding food. Her families reaction was they didn't care if she went to a Hampton Inn...she was moving out. Her family , by their own admission, has admitted that she was always difficult to live with and refer to her as the Queen Mother. There was never any intent for her to be a mother to a "widower with six kids"...our ages were not those that needed a hands on mother.
Companionship and love is certainly a necessary component of a life at all stages. Was Dad's life better because he had that? Of course.
Do I have any reason to believe that my own Mother, married to Dad for 35 years, would have acted differently or the same? Every bit of my defense mechanism would want to tell you of course it would be different, but the only proof I have is what I observed . I was 33 years old when Mom died and 34 years old when he remarried. I can share this story though.....I never heard my Dad or Mom say they would call their lawyer if they didn't like something or get their way. After about a year of this second marriage we all heard that thought said quite frequently by him when he was concerned about how she would react to something done or said. She teased ...or was it threatened...with that statement of calling a lawyer.

Is it wrong to request that a spouse, who states she made an active choice to better her life and move out ,who told her spouse that she was going to move on and live her life, be asked to consider that her visits are detrimental to the the spouse she chose to move away from?? Her visits are more about removing things than visiting. Who cares? Not us. It is about how he feels as she comes and goes and is there one minute and gone the next. And yes, we tell the therapeutic white lies each and every day so that he remains content in the fact that she is"away visiting her family." He loves that answer as he feels family is the most important aspect of a happy life. We will say it as long as he can hear us.

How do you tell any loved one that their spouse moved out because they wanted to live their life? How do you keep them from feeling it is their fault and tell them that they should not put away? There is enough going on with the emotional aging of someone who knows they have Alzheimers without using their disease as an excuse for why their spouse left. To lay blame at their feet for something they could not control?
After reading all these responses , talking to doctors and researching what I can, maybe the answer to the request is pretty basic. I cannot ask someone to be sensitive to someone else when it is really beyond their ability to see anyone else but themself.
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AND - this woman married a widower with six children - that takes ovaries in my book. I could be wrong here but this "second marriage" - that everyone is so easily blowing off or treating as a consolation prize - in length, how does it compare to dads first? I mean absolutely no disrespect to you mother, she passed and if not for that tragic circumstance your parents would have still been together. But as it is - this is a 32 year marriage which is something to be proud of.
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Sorry, JessieBelle. You said your piece with no backtracking. Good for you!
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Here I go again being the dissenting voice. If my math is correct - which it often isn't AND its 2:00am - they are married about 1,664 week and she's been gone for 8. I think it's a little unfair to be calling her an
absentee wife and packing up all her crap - which has been there for 1,664 weeks just yet. I also take exception with the statement "for a few years she had wanted to move Dad to a facility and we refused" - what? "We refused"? Since when does a wife need this kind of permission? That she felt she had to get permission from you all speaks volumes- that you all "refused" and that's the way it went speaks even more. Why is every acting like this woman is s flash in the pan gold-digger? I imagine at 90 years old and having to argue with six adult children over the care of her husband of 32 years - which directly effects her - she said "enough". She move six miles away - not 600. Maybe she didn't want to live with a full time caregiver in her house. How many here have stated their parents feel that way - need or not? Maybe she doesn't like visiting her husband with the ever present, watching caregiver. After 32 years of marriage you can't give her 30 minutes of privacy with her husband? I would LOVE to hear her side of this story.
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What's to keep step mom from moving back in? Does anyone have DPOA or thought about getting guardianship? Perhaps she could be negotiated with. Go away and when dad is gone we will deed dads interest in the house over to you. She's only been gone 8 weeks but evidently with several drive by visits during that time. Now that she has left the area for three weeks it will be interesting to see if she can stay away from her stuff that long. Plus if she's gone three weeks it will be interesting to see how he does without seeing her. I assume this will be the longest she's been away without a visit? Since she has established a new residence and basically abandoned him I would think as dads advocate you could make any changes you want in order to take care of him, but again, good to take this window of opportunity while she's gone and discuss your options with an attorney before knocking down any walls or moving bedrooms. I hope you find a legal way to navigate these next few years without constant interference.
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First of all this lady is your Dad's legal wife and because of his devote religious beliefs divorce is not an option. It remains her home and she has every right to come and go as she wishes and leave her belongings in what she still regards as her home.
That being said would Dad be agreeable to a move to another location that she has no control of and no right of access if that is possible?
The wife is ninety years old so it is possible that she also has some cognitive problems if she has not always been this way.
It sounds as though you, or Dad could probably leave the house uninhabited after Dad moves out so wife has free access
If she wants to visit Dad at his new location there would seem to be little you can do to prevent that if he is not willing to take legal action to bar her.
So to sum up the best solution from what I see is to move Dad out of the house assuming he is willing.
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Atof3Kids My sympathies go out to you also. I know that the attempt at blending a family is rough and at the young age of 11the last thing any child needs is to be perceived as the enemy . I hope that if you haven't already you contact some type of adult protective services. I am not saying that they can do much but the call will maybe put your dad's wife on notice. As I already know they will check to see if your fathers living conditions are appropriate. My Dad's wife has also exhibited some of the same behaviors you mention and it does make you wonder what makes them tick. I guess this will make us stronger. I hope you find a solution also. Thank you for taking the time to respond.
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Apologies for the empty entry. I wrote a lengthy post but it was deleted as I was logging in to this site. I think I would consult an elder attorney to ensure that you aren't making things worse, and then would go with the suggestion to clean up her mess and put things in one room or add it all to the basement. Second to that, I would move dad to a more suitable location. If those two don't work, I would tell the caregivers to move him to another part of the house or out of the house completely whenever she arrives. I applaud you kids for trying to work things out.

I have a step-monster who has kept me from my dad for years by threatening to divorce and leave my dad (who has Parkinson's with dementia and is terrified of being alone) if he mentions seeing me. She has run off just about every member of the family and leaves my dad alone a lot but at random times no so one can sneak in. They've been married 47 years and she has been this way from day one because she viewed me as her competition starting when I was 11 years old. They have had a very negative bond their entire marriage but now my dad has mellowed so she just doesn't speak to him for weeks at a time. She does things like slash perfectly good clothes and furniture because she doesn't want anyone to use them when she revamps her wardrobe and redecorates frequently.

I wish you guys the best of luck and hope you can successfully do what is best for your dad.
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Anne: "Has anyone ever seen a Brinks truck and a U Haul in a funeral procession line? :) "

Hahahaha, thanks so much for that vivid image and a great laugh!
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This situation is not unusual, I have heard of very similar stories. One wife moved out because of hoarding, and then hoarded up the new place too. When she died, the couple had been together in their home with the help of family coming in to once again clean up the hoarding.
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Take a look around the house. Think of dividing it, with a safe portion for Dad, with a lock on the entrance to his apartment area, to include the kitchen of course.
He is there, a major portion should be his area.
Or, think of her assigned portion as a smaller, separate entrance apt.
They are not yet divorced or legally separated? Save her a spot. If she sees that she has an area, she may feel less threatened, less territorial, and stay away longer. If a legal separation occurs, she has abandoned him.
Taking charge of Dad's assets is important to minimize her destructiveness. imop.
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If Dad is going to remain in the house, of course clean it up each time. Add a single bed with a pretty bedcover, and a locked cabinet in each room. First, take pictures, before and after. No one needs permission to clean up an area for Dad's well-being. The use of the rooms can be up to Dad, or you. You can use one room as a live-in housekeeper's room, and one room as 'a monument to the wife's room'. Then Dad won't be more upset, if you can white lie and say we think she may come back, this is her room. Anyone would be upset if rooms in their home were in shambles, so clean and straighten the rooms up.
Make more of an effort to make his current living situation better and safer for him.
Does he currently have any live-in help?
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That was an outside the box opinion, please don't shoot the messenger.
Personally, I agree with Jessebelle's observation.
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I like those answers and am encouraged by them Garden Artist and CWillie. They made me smile and chuckle about the house. I will definitely pose them to the rest of the family. With the debris that has been left behind I had to ask her family if we could clean out the bathroom in Dad's room. I told them that the condition of the house was something between a storage facility, a dumpster and a recycling center. For Dad's well being and age at home he would be better in a more conducive place. And if you folks could see the stuff you would be blown away. The fact that it all posts a hazard is significant. We had such smells in the basement last year and had to pull lots of the stuff away from the walls looking for dead animals. Exterminators, critter catchers, you name it...we hired them. I do not think most of us realize how bad corrugated boxes are to the overall quality of the air that you breathe. Our caregivers were beside themselves. And absentee wife is interesting.
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There is a prenup. We are not worried about tangible items and Dad took care of family items with a list of things he wanted his family to have. She has already taken lots of things and has written her name on the bottoms of others. Who cares really? It is all just stuff. Has anyone ever seen a Brinks truck and a U Haul in a funeral procession line? :) Yes cwillie, a magic wand might be nice but all we want is peace. And even though we have asked, we cannot give up advocating for him. It is not fun to live in this atmosphere and realize that all you are trying to do is make sure that the guy who was the best, most caring and deserving Dad gets all the breaks he now deserves. I live in another state , as does another sister. A third lives nearby. My husband encourages me to spend as much time as I can with Dad, as do the other spouses etc and I have been going in for 2 week stretches. We keep the CK for the bulk of the time and usually have the dinner and overnight shift. He so appreciates our presence and thanks us profusely. None of us are worried about what is in it for us....we have received all we could ever ask for already!!
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Anyone hear of negative bonding? A couple may have always had an argumentative lifestyle, even hate each other, appear to have not had a good marriage. If you measure a good marriage in terms of years, there is a lot of years. Was it then a successful marriage?
If husband and wife are negatively bonded and family messes with this dynamic, then family is to blame for the current unrest.
Respect their marriage. Ask the wife wgat she wants you to do.
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Looks like we posted at the same time.
What a mess, she will continue to be tied to the home as long as it is full of her stuff, and of course she feels you have no right to limit her access to her home! The best solution would be to move him out and clean house (literally), but at this stage of his life I understand your resistance to that. I worried about my mom's reaction when I sold her home and moved both of us to a new shared residence, but she made the transition surprisingly well. You mention he wanted to move years ago, would he still be willing to downsize?
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Addressing first the situation of her moving to Boston and your father feeling as though he may have failed her, emphasize her age, the fact that she can no longer drive, and the obviouy fact that she too is getting old and needs help which it's more appropriate for her son to provide. Perhaps you can couch the explanation in terms that suggest she's actually thinking of him and choosing her son to care for her.

But frankly, this woman sounds very self absorbed, and a user. I personally would be getting tired of what I see as only partially cooperative behavior from her family. And I'd make darn sure that his estate plan is up to date, including addressing the fact that she's an absentee wife.

I'm really surprised at the amount of stuff she's left in the basement. I would also start getting rid of that; you're not running a storage facility, and having all that excess stuff is just more stuff collecting dust. You can tell her and/or her family that you've been advised by one of your doctors (or even make up a story about APS having been contacted) to get rid of all the stuff as it's not healthy.

I can't help thinking "money and assets" and manipulation though.
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Wouldn't any money be joint marital assets anyway unless there had been a prenup? I would think if greed were the only motivator she could divorce and sue for her rightful share. The marriage you describe may have been dysfunctional, but it has lasted 32 years.
As for her belongings, how do you even begin to divide the shared possessions of a couple like this? There will certainly be some obvious heirlooms, but the bulk of things would most likely have been accumulated during the marriage.
I think the real problem here is his distress over accepting their new reality. While it might seem like it would easier if you could wave your magic wand and make her disappear, it is possible that he would continue to fret and worry about where she is and what she is doing.
I agree with Babalou that it might be worth while to have a discussion, perhaps using a neutral third party, with her and her children and explain that her visits are causing problems and plan a strategy to remedy that, maybe by limiting their timing or duration or the topics she brings up.
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The above suggestions are all very much appreciated. About the house: It will not be suited as it is for the future of a senior. The house is 48 years old. Built by Dad, she agreed to move into it as my youngest sister was 17 when Mom passed away.
She lived about 6 houses up the street and felt she knew all about Dad. She had been widowed for 10 years, sadly a young widow at that. Dad had another house on a lake that was purchased by Dad and Mom( that is where Mom died.) His new wife said she wanted a new home and Dad resisted, but was delighted to call the lake home"theirs". It was sold about 7 years ago. Last year we asked if we could research widening a bathroom door, putting in grab rails , adding banisters and to consider making a first floor bedroom. We were allowed to do the first three but we met with resistance on looking to secure any first floor sleeping area.Hen she went away for a month she told Dad to stand in the way of anyone who tried to do anything in the house! I laugh as I think he was puzzled by that. The house is roomy but by no means state of the art. I would imagine someone might come in and totally re-do most of it as it has aged. I would like to consider moving Dad to a smaller house but I would wonder how he would react. It would take time and patience and with the same caregivers around it could be an excellent idea. Maybe a rental home would be a good idea, but she would have to agree to sell the current home.
Visits and driving: We asked her family to assist us in a a discussion on visiting and advance notice. Sometimes they help and sometimes they tell us to talk with her ourselves. She lost her drivers license about 2 years ago after 4 accidents . I know that is tough as I had to watch Dad actively give up his license 10 years ago when he realized he did not want to be a road liability to someone else. She has a driver she will hire for appointments and has relied on people in her new community to drop her off and pick her up. Also, sometimes the local daughter might help.

The last 3 visits have been unannounced and she spends about 10 minutes with Dad and an hour with her stuff. The visits I have seen are about the same. Maybe it is because she has to pay a driver??? The caregivers keep an eye on the whole thing and are very accommodating, even offering excuses for her absence. While I am probably a pack rat she too is a hoarder and her family says they will deal with it someday. The bulk of her first house still is in the basement. So she spends lots of time going through suitcases of junk mail, magazines and plastic bags stuff. Thats not a criticism...it is an observation. When she leaves with a bag of stuff their is no real pattern to her departure. She might ask the caregiver to help her or walk by Dad with the items. He might ask where she is going with her stuff and sometimes she just keeps walking and does not answer.
I will try again to request some sensitivity to the visiting schedule. She largely ignored the request from the geriatric care manager. She has stated that she will not be held to a schedule but one never knows.

Also, I would seriously like to give him the answer that she moved to Boston to be with her son for health issues....but what do I say if he feels like he failed her as a husband? He already has said that in the past when he thinks she has been overworked....and then he says well maybe I should be in a" box." So unlike him, but obviously very symbolic of gender roles here!
You have been very kind in responding. We might be a dedicated family but we did not interfere with their marriage or home...we were all busy with our own. It has only been in the last 7 years when we observed that he was needing help and was not getting it.
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We can't judge as we don't know the wife, but you wrote:

"Dad wanted to move into a luxury 5 star step down community over 10 years ago but his wife refused. Then when she finally decided she had him sign one for $500K , she changed her mind and lost the $40 K on it."

Sounds like there will be a huge amount of money left when your father passes and that alone may be the reason to hang about. That said, it may be her children, expecting a windfall, are pressuring her to keep her belongings at the house and check up on it and your father's condition. Just my two pennyworth.
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I'll avoid any judgment because family dynamics cant be understood by an outsider.

If any of you can tell kindly inform her that after she leaves, dads emotional state is rocky and that his stress has zero to do with her- but his inability to understand her coming and going because of dads ALZ.

Then instead of offering a solution (which as you "felt" by responses here, i.e. being judged); ask her if she can help by maybe forewarning the visits so dad can be preoccupied?

At her age and 32 years of marriage and HER home, HER husband-- even if shes seemingly horrible, i cant imagine how i would feel if the children took over dad under my roof. When my dad hit rock bottom and mom was beside herself, we moved dad out per her request. Into a rental home close and all the children helped.

But like i said- no judgment because each family dynamic is tricky and walking on egg shells is an art!

I would love to get rid of my sister-- but alas-- its not about me, its about mom.
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I think AKDaughter's first paragraph sums it all up - it's about the money and what the wandering wife wants to get out of the marriage.

I also think her second paragraph offers excellent suggestions; keep Dad at home, but in an environment more suited to his and your needs at this time.
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