How can you blame others for what you have done?

Regardless of Mouse and his intentions. It is spine tingling to read some of those posts. You can almost feel the hate coming through the computer screen. There are always two sides to every story. I work in a christian based nursing facility and I see it all the time. If families would work together honestly and without anger many of these situations would have better outcomes for all.

It does sound like your sisters did create a bit of a mess. The house sounds like the worst problem. It would have been so much easier if they had just rented a place for her. That way if she had wanted to come back, it would have been easy.

Knew*

@Countrymouse - I owe you nothing. "Including" is a word with a specific purpose. I do not owe anyone every detail of my life in order to be treated with dignity and respect. The reason the {including} was included was to make it clear that everyone new up front that we would not be able to visit, for a variety of reasons - all serious ones. I owe no further explanation.

Excuse me: any response has to be based on what is posted. When you described the run up to your parents' move, the sole example you cited of what you had contributed to the debate was that "including that we would not be able to visit" part. If there were better examples, post them.

@Countrymouse - are you kidding?

"So, everything that you could do amounted to saying 'you're on your own'? That was it?"

Where did you get that idea from? There were lots of ideas, including building an addition onto my home just for her (with her money of course). I could not bring myself to take my father's life savings to build an addition onto my home, knowing it would become an asset to my family. We never had a chance to work out the details before two estranged controllers were grabbing what they could. Don't make assumptions about people, especially those you do not know.

The phrase that struck me in the original post was '[we] did everything we could to prevent this move including letting you know we would not be able to visit."

So, everything that you could do amounted to saying 'you're on your own'? That was it? Where were the alternative proposals? What was the better idea that the family had that would have achieved a fairer sharing out of the work with an equally good outcome for the elders?

I actually agree with the main message, that it's important to make your own decisions on your own terms, be aware of what you're doing, and not blame others for your own assumptions. If you choose to prioritise your parents over other things that are important to you, that's your choice: nobody can make you and it's simply irrational to blame anyone else for it. Or, indeed, to blame them for failing to fall in with your plans when they said all along that they wouldn't. But does that absolve them of any obligation to involve themselves in caregiving full stop? They don't have any responsibility to help you; but does that mean they owe no care at all to their parent(s)?

Taking my own circumstances as an example - well, you're bound to, aren't you - I don't blame my siblings for failing to support me. I blame my siblings for actively making my life more difficult, and more to the point I blame them for their indifference to their mother and their active, voiced resentment of feeling any kind of obligation to her. If they'd had a better idea, or any ideas at all come to that, and I'd overruled them, then I wouldn't now feel justified in continuing to be angry with them.

So how can I blame others... Is 'by blaming them for what they actually did' an acceptable answer?

I took care of my sick grandmother until she died (PS everyone else was too busy, etc and I never complained - I loved her). No armchair quarterback here. I know the struggles involved. It is part of why the rest of the family did not want the move to happen. Here's the story - Dad died suddenly, some family members had been somewhat estranged while the rest of us hung around our entires lives to be near Mom and Dad and help them out (which we did regurlarly and happily).

Single sibling with no children and in poor health (one that wondered in and out of Mom and Dad's lives forever (too busy, no money, depressed, etc) encourages Mom to move closer to them. This sibling cannot handle the loss of Dad and feels guilt for not being around. . . Completely estranged sibling (lives thousands of miles away from all of us) joins in the promotion of moving Mom 10 hours away from the rest of the family. Mom already vulnerable after the loss of Dad, a bit narcissistic and with arrested development is fed a story of how green the grass is on the other side. . .
In the meantime the other siblings protest (strongly). We are told "it's her decision" - after she has been talked into it. The two worst financial advisers in the family are now Mom's mentors. . . She buys a house in a bad neighborhood, with a mortgage, and only the one sibling around. She is convinced to give what money Dad left to the one estrangled sibling (thousands of miles away) - but is told to keep it secret (which she does). Both estranged siblings are the only ones who know. All our lives we told M&D to enjoy what they had and never mind leaving anything to us, we don't want it. But now, my mother is living 10 hours from all but one family member and is flat broke with an albatross of a house that will never sell!

The sibling who insisted it was her choice and wanted the move because of a benefit to them (I cannot share the details) does nothing but complain, blame, behave irrationaly, create family drama, and division and frankly is quite rude about the entire situation.

I begged Mom not to move so far away. I told her we did not have available funds to visit. Until the move I saw her every day. I told her it was a terrible move financialy (especially for a woman her age). Dad died and Mom ran away. She was encouraged during the most vulnerable time in her life, to make the worst possible move she could make. The entire family has lost her. When she left I mourned. Not only had I lost my father, but now I had lost my mother as well, even after dedicating my life to staying nearby them. My mother was duped, I had her taken away from me and my family - the last thing I feel like doing is feeling bad for the person who did this to me (even though I still love them).

This account here still only scratches the surface, but I know how awful long winded posts can be. . . So, paint me as the do nothing villian if you will. But always remember, every coin has two sides and so does every story.

I don't blame my 2 brothers.A fact is a fact.When Mother was being sent home from the hostpital after breaking her neck in the tip of her skull,the doctor was giving out instructions for her care.I watched my brothers step backward and ofcourse I stepped foreward because I love her and Someone had to step up and be responsible and care for and about her.Now,almost a decade later,they continue not to care or help.How they live with themselves,I will never understand.If it was a choice,I would have still done the same thing.I was raised by the Golden Rule...Do Unto Others...

Have you seen this recently in the news? Hopefully they will find ways to pay the stay at home caregiver.
Out-of-pocket health costs of dementia soar at the end of life

"Families may spend almost twice as much caring for dementia patients at the end of life than they might if their loved one suffered from a different disease, a U.S. study suggests.

But the average out-of-pocket costs absorbed by families of dementia patients totaled $61,522 over those five years, far greater than the typical tab of $34,068 for patients without dementia.

"Many costs related to daily care for patients with dementia are not covered by health insurance, and these care needs, including everything from supervision to bathing and feeding, may span several years," lead author Dr. Amy Kelley of the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York said by email.

Over the five years prior to each patient's date of death, the average total cost, including what Medicare covered as well as what families paid, was about $287,000 for dementia patients. That compares with roughly $175,000 for heart disease, $173,000 for cancer, and $197,000 for people who died of other causes.

Families caring for dementia patients also spent a greater proportion of their wealth than families helping loved ones with other conditions. The financial burden as a proportion of wealth was even more pronounced for patients who were black, had less than a high school education, or were unmarried or widowed women

Even so, the study findings highlight a financial burden posed by end-of-life care for elderly dementia patients that care reverberate through multiple generations, noted Carol Levine, director of the Families and Health Care Project at the United Hospital Fund, an independent policy group in New York City.

"There is a cascading effect: the financial drain for the older person's care means fewer resources not only for the caregiver but also for the younger generation's education and future prospects," Levine, who wasn't involved in the study, said by email.

"The immediate need for assistance is so compelling that future needs are often disregarded," Levine added. "The impact is greatest on families with the fewest resources to start with."

Policy changes that might pay family members to be dementia caregivers would also help ease the financial strain, Lachs added.
Out-of-pocket health costs of dementia soar at the end of life

Families may spend almost twice as much caring for dementia patients at the end of life than they might if their loved one suffered from a different disease, a U.S. study suggests.

But the average out-of-pocket costs absorbed by families of dementia patients totaled $61,522 over those five years, far greater than the typical tab of $34,068 for patients without dementia.

"Many costs related to daily care for patients with dementia are not covered by health insurance, and these care needs, including everything from supervision to bathing and feeding, may span several years," lead author Dr. Amy Kelley of the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York said by email.

Over the five years prior to each patient's date of death, the average total cost, including what Medicare covered as well as what families paid, was about $287,000 for dementia patients. That compares with roughly $175,000 for heart disease, $173,000 for cancer, and $197,000 for people who died of other causes.

Families caring for dementia patients also spent a greater proportion of their wealth than families helping loved ones with other conditions. The financial burden as a proportion of wealth was even more pronounced for patients who were black, had less than a high school education, or were unmarried or widowed women

Even so, the study findings highlight a financial burden posed by end-of-life care for elderly dementia patients that care reverberate through multiple generations, noted Carol Levine, director of the Families and Health Care Project at the United Hospital Fund, an independent policy group in New York City.

"There is a cascading effect: the financial drain for the older person's care means fewer resources not only for the caregiver but also for the younger generation's education and future prospects," Levine, who wasn't involved in the study, said by email.

"The immediate need for assistance is so compelling that future needs are often disregarded," Levine added. "The impact is greatest on families with the fewest resources to start with."

Policy changes that might pay family members to be dementia caregivers would also help ease the financial strain, Lachs added.

Thanks for the update, Ladee. I'm glad that it's not too serious. Treadmill. I couldn't even get past 4minutes. I refused to stop and the tech was getting worried because of my heart rate. He stopped it when it was obvious I wasn't going to stop. I remembered telling the desk nurse how embarrassing that I couldn't go over 4 minutes. She told me not to feel bad. An earlier client couldn't go past 2 minutes. Thanks....

ArmyRetired - I'd agree with you if the subject at hand were something other than caring for a parent. But I know from experience, the "decision" to help a parent is generally made in response to an immediate need and does not necessarily imply a commitment to take care of all the parent's needs for all time no matter how stressful and demanding they become. At the time of the initial decision to help, you can't possibly know what caregiving entails because it's unknowable. Every situation plays out differently.

Expecting siblings to help is not tantamount to blaming them for the caregiver's bad decision. Their help for the parent would still be needed, and needed even more, if the first sibling had not decided to help. After all, it's not as if the parent got old and frail in reliance on the first sibling's commitment to help.

I think the only case in which the caregiving sibling has no right to complain is if he or she is preventing the parent from moving to assisted living or a nursing home, and is expecting the other siblings, who don't agree with that decision, to help make it work. That is something that happens occasionally, but it's not the typical case.

Jessie, that happened too. The uninvolved siblings paid a deposit on an apartment in assisted living for Mom with AD and hubby to share. Never once even considering asking him whether he wanted to provide that level of care for mom, to say nothing of even asking him to look at the location they had chosen for him. And he is not out Dad, only my mother's husband of nine years as of yesterday. Poor guy married into the worst of dysfunction!

I don't think anyone disagreed with that point. Things went south on the thread when the OP said that low-cost home companions were available to everyone that needed them. I could hear everyone rumbling in their seats when the OP wrote that. But we have to realize most people have not gone through the maze even a little way.

I believe the original intent of this posting was to bring to light those who choose freely to become a caregiver with the expectations of sibling help and not knowing the responsibilities it comes with caregiving. I am tired of people blaming others for the choses they make in life that turn out bad. This is an excellent subject to post.

A lot of the time people forget that the elder folks are still people with desires and preferences of their own. People on the outside start to see them as objects that can be picked up and placed here or there. Most of all people outside don't understand that the great services they hear about are often nothing but lip service. When you go to look, there is very little available that doesn't cost a lot when you add it all together. I really like that AARP is addressing the needs of family caregivers. Has anyone been following their efforts?

And those same siblings that sometimes even live in the immediate area, within ten miles, think the care is perfect, allows parent to remain in the home, up until the point that sibling is paid by parent for the care. All of the sudden the money that the child caregiver is paid for their services, then the issue becomes the inheritance money that is being spent on care and paid to the 24/7 child that the others will not get!

My mom is also on the lower rung of "middle income." If she lived a lot more frugally, she'd probably be able to afford some hired help. But, try being the one who explains that to an 80 year old: "Mom, you have to give up your daily lunches at Panera, your 200 cable channels, your vehicle, and the new carpeting for your home, because that money needs to be put aside for care needs." Try explaining that especially when you are the adult child who lives nearby and the parent expects you to attend to the care needs. It's very easy to say Mom needs to hire help or use sliding scale services when you live 1,000 miles away. When you live 20 miles away, Mom's first question is "But why can't you do it?" Followed by "I'm not ready to give up my car. I need those cable channels. What, I'm not supposed to even enjoy lunch???"

It's a lot easier to blame the caregivers for being "martyrs" than put yourself in their place and understand the pressure they're under from their parents, their parents' friends and neighbors, and the whole rest of society to step up and help the old folks out.

It was Mouse insistence that there are all these program just there if we just look instead of complaining and expecting the non-caregiving to help out.... We did look at options. Dad had to fight for meals-on-wheels to include him in it. He even tried for food stamps but got denied. A lot of the government programs are for those who are under food stamps and low income housing. Unfortunately, we're on the lower rung of middle income family (since we obviously don't qualify as low income family.)

Regardless of Mouse and his/her intentions, there is an interesting point here. We live in a rather mobile society and most children move away from the town where their parents live; multiple children=multiple locations. For a while, having the parent "age in place"; either in their own home or in a nice IL or AL near where they lived can be fine; everyone is equally distant and can visit/help out equally. But for us, there was a crisis and mom had a stroke. Once she needed to be in full time care, it seemed to be the best idea to have her close to ONE of us so that in a true emergency (ER/hospital), one of us could be there quickly to oversee. We researched our options and decided, as a group, that moving mom closest to brother with POA/flexible job schedule/grown children and no medical issues of his own and no small children was the best option. He and his wife knew going into this that the burden of "first response" would be theirs. I'm almost 2 hours away; I help by being the point person for the doctors, etc, and I take off when needed to accompany mom to increasingly rare doctor visits. My youngest brother is 4 hours away and still has underage children. he comes up to visit a couple of times a year; this annoys POA brother, but when asked what he'd like little bro to do, he is at a loss to say what would be a "job" for him.

In truth, I think that siblings who don't get the "full brunt" of the caregiving should be grateful to the sibs who take this on; not act as armchair quarterbacks and act as backup when caretaking sibs go on vacation.

I have a feeling Mouse wants to tell off her own siblings, but she doesn't dare (or they've shut off her venom stream long ago) so she took us on as a proxy. The result was predictable. It's what happens when you thrust your extremely biased views, cloaked as the "truth", upon people who actually know what "truth" is. Hopefully, she won't be back.

Great reading! I was getting really pissed off with Mousehunters. I guess that's why he/she named itself "mousehunters" ... It was after mouse (poor-me-caregiver-whom-I-hate-my-siblings). Instead, it got a whole bunch of Mighty Mouse caregivers who questioned all of it's comments and even checked the website it posted. Anyway, it admitted it was 'playing' with us...

Sounds so much of what I have heard, or they alluded to for the past four years! Maybe it is? Maybe it's not? But there are many that just do not understand caregiving at all! It makes it so much easier for them as long as someone else does it.

Glad, if it was a twisted, and the similarity was telltale, it was good practice.

Well, this was an interesting read. :) When I first saw the topic line I did a double-take. I thought it was asking how to shift the blame to someone else. I expected it to say something like, "I really did an awful thing I regret. It would hurt my mother deeply if she knew that I did it. How can I convince her that my do-nothing brother did this thing?" LOL

So the actual message seemed reasonable to me, once I sorted it out. But the thread disintegrated fast.

That last statement made no sense where it is. I should have addressed it to windy's last message. :) I am so fallible.

But sometimes professors can learn things from freshmen.

Eeek...I've had a little bit too much red as my thoughts all came flooding out. I'm going to bed right now. Good night, all! :-)

And every aging parent situation is different. It's really hard to say what is best as a general blanket for every caregiver. In my case, my mother is bedridden (so I don't have to worry about her wandering in the middle of the night or breaking her hip, but I do use a Hoyer lift to get her into her chair), is very quiet and doesn't yell or scream, for now, (so I can get my full night's rest but still have the baby monitor on in case she needs me), is unable to feed herself due to severe hand arthritis (I admit, I get a little tired of waiting for her to slowly chew every bite as I wolf down my food because I'm anxious to get to the next task on my To-Do List), has severe urinary incontinence (her diapers need to be changed every few hours), etc. She's very easy, at least for now - but she's still a 24/7 job as I DO EVERYTHING (cooking, running errands, cleaning/maintaining the home and the such) and I'm exhausted by day's end. My father worked his ass off to make sure my mother's medical needs were met. The downside is that she doesn't qualify for Medicaid and even if she did, it's not all 5-star hotel treatment as if she were private-pay. Last year, I saw on the local news of a Medicaid-funded nursing home that was being investigated by the State for maggot and cockroach infestation, mold everywhere, elder neglect, portable ac units were broken in multiple rooms (and we live in AZ where it's HOT in the summer), building was in need of major repair all over inside and out, etc. The owner was just cashing the huge checks while the elder residents were living in squalor and filth. It was so, SO bad that I cried - literally, I did - because I was so thankful that my mother is not one of those residents. I understand not all Medicaid-funded homes are like this but the options of "good and safe" care are limited, at least where we live, and if you find such place you still need to be actively involved in your aging loved one's care to advocate for his/her needs; it's not like you just drop them off at summer camp and then pick them up on their deathbed. Believe me, we're not The Rockafellers and I'm fortunate to be able to afford in-home respite relief once a week so I can have a break, but I still have to screen the relief caregiver, making sure she won't sit on her cell phone all day long instead of tending to my mother. It's hard to find a relief caregiver that actually cares! They're out there but I had to go through multiple caregivers to find the right fit for us. In our situation, I have the option to put my mother in a nice, clean group home (that costs a pretty penny and the staff will just stick my mother in front of the television all day long), but I haven't and because of this I won't play the victim card. In fact, it's because of our situation I see this as an opportunity to put into motion my goals and dreams because I don't want to be floundering after Mom does actually pass away. I will be so, so sad when she does move on that I need my "own things", my own accomplishments to keep me focused on my bigger picture, which is to do all that I can to live the best life I can - and that I want to become successful so that I when I'm my mother's age I can afford whatever care and medical equipment I need. I don't want to end up in one of these State-investigated nursing homes. ! And like you, JessieBelle, I know my life has meaning and I also know that I'm on the right path. My life course would've been completely different (in a bad way compared to what it is now) if my parents didn't both need my help full-time at that stage of my life. So, I'm excited to see what the next phase of my life will bring. I'm starting a business (one of my "own things) and once I get enough stable and consistent revenue from it, I'll be able to afford graduate school (one of my accomplishments). And, like I said, thank goodness for the wine that keeps me sane through all the mental and physical storms. :-)

Well golly, gosh, gee whiz! That was fun! Guess she/he/it really told us.......