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My father died a few days ago and I went to the ATM tonight and pulled the money off of his direct express card to take care of some expenses. Is this illegal? What will happen? Should I contact social security? Need help please!
Sorry to hear that your dad died a few days ago. Whose expenses were these? I think even if he were alive that this would not be legal. Do contact Social Security and let them know he is diseased.
Good question - I am listed on my mom's account. After she passes, can I take some of that money to pay for the funeral? Or other expenses? She left everything in a will to the five kids, to be split equally, but I assume that is after all expenses have been paid? I am the executor.
It's sad that while we're dealing with death we have these other worries, but that's how it goes.The money already in the account should be fine to use for their expenses as long as it was a shared account in the first place. But Social Security and all pensions and related payment belongs to the deceased so SS should be notified.
In my experience, they already were and the checks just stopped. I don't know if it was the funeral home or some other entity who did the notifying, but the checks stopped without me doing anything. Just make certain you don't use money that goes in after the death since that could be a mistake.
When my father died in 2012, the funeral home worker came to pick up his body for transport to the medical college that he had donated his body to for research purposes. The owner of the funeral home told me that they would contact social security. However, very early the next day, I called social security to report his death. Dad and Mom had all the paperwork in place for me (as POA and trustee of the estate) so that all I had to do was make a few phone calls to inform people of Dad's death. It only took a couple of hours, and I thank my parents for doing all this ahead of time. It made my life easier at that time.
You may have to pay back social security for the previous month's payment depending on when your father died. They do not pay benefits for the month of death. That means if, for example, the person dies in October, the check received in November (which is payment for October) must be returned. So, I would advise you to call social security as soon as possible so you don't have to mess with returning money. It really doesn't take that long on the phone.
As far as taking money from your father's account, if you are on the account or have permission of access to the accounts from Dad's surviving spouse, if there is one, I think you'll be okay. Then again, I am not a lawyer. It's just that in my family, we don't steal from one another, so if I had needed money from my parents' accounts for final expenses, I would've told my mom and she would have given me permission to get the money, even though my name is on the accounts already. However, I realize not all families are like mine.
Don't panic. Everything will work out. It just takes some time. Take it one day at a time, and you'll get everything done that needs to be done. I wish you peace at this stressful time in your life.
You must contact them. Usually the funeral director does but just in case he doesn't you must let them know. No matter who is listed on the beneficiaries of the accounts you have doesn't matter but his social security check will stop. If your Mother is still alive they will combine a part of his into hers and her account will be the only one. If she is deceased then his check will definitely stop. You won't legally be getting any more from them for him.
Dear Otto - My sincere condolences on the passing of your father. This is a tough and a financially burdensome time, especially if your personal budget doesn't have any extra. So many little things like flowers and obits and food for the mourners gathered - even if every your parents have pre-paid the funeral,,,,it's tough.
I don't think a previous poster meant that you were "stealing" if you didn't ask permission from somebody - especially if there was no one to ask. If you aren't on his account - then taking money using his debit card for some final expenses is forgivable - just make sure you keep receipts of your purchases.
The funeral home notified the Social Security Administration when my Mom passed and they obtained copies of the death certificate for me (they asked me how many I wanted). Since Mom was a beneficiary on my father's work pension account, his VA pension and co-owner of their home and had medicaide, I had to notify each of those agencies and send the death certificate. You should look into what kind of health insurance, pensions, credit cards, etc. your father had and make sure notification takes place - some don't need the original death certificate.....most accepted a phone call and scanned and emailed copy from me.
God bless you and your family during this time. May you find peace soon.
When my mother died, the funeral worker told me that SS would be notified. Then, the next month, a check for her was deposited in her joint account with my father so I had to call SS. They pulled back the money. Don't rely on others to do what they claim.
Depending on when your elder died, SSA (as well as other pensions & retirements) could pay the next months income (or even a couple of months for pensions) as there is a programming lag to stop payments. If $ is paid for month that they are dead, this $ will be clawed back out of the account so you need to leave it in otherwise there will be NSF charges placed each time a recovery attempt is done.
If you think the NSF won't matter as their dead, well, it actually could. The bank can freeze the account if it's negative and place a claim against the estate for those charges & any fees which build each month. Also you"ll need a estate or executor account if you do probate, and the NSFs will pop up when a bank does a routine approval to open or change the titling on the account.
My mom died towards the end of the month. Both SSA & federal pension did the usual direct deposit on income for the next month. SSA did their clawback about 3 weeks later. But Feds did it 5 weeks later so 2 months later. Now Feds did send a "Are you dead" letter at 3 weeks which I filled out as the future executor that yes mom was dead.
Otto - please keep receipts on what you spent the $ on and to the penny. Whomever is the executor, if there is a will, needs these to establish the status of the estate as of DoD. If there is no will, most states have it such that all assets of the deceased escheat to the State.......so you may find yourself having to respond to the state on these funds....this could get pretty sticky.....
Yes, the funeral director should have told them but confirming will not hurt. POA stops at time of death. Executor mentioned in the will takes over, if none probate appoints one, I think. Be careful about last SS check. It could be taken back.
Just for information. When a husband dies the wife loses her SS and gets his, if his was higher. If hers is higher, then his drops. There will be a loss of income.
If the SS check was automatically deposited to a bank account, they will be taking back the prior month's check even though he was still alive when it was paid. Dad died Dec 8, and the Dec deposit of $1200 had arrived and it was scooted back out of the account at a later date. Then Mom started getting her surviving spouse reduced monthly check separately. You should notify them. And make sure there is money left in that account for the government to take the deposit back out magically without other notice. Its the way it works.
Otto, I am sorry to hear of the death of your father; I hope it was as peaceful as it could be and you had time to say goodbye.
In answer to your question, I live in Canada so I'm sure there are policy differences. However, my experience with the government (and SS is part of the government bureaucracy) is that there are so many different departments and sometimes the information does not reach the right department. When my dad died last year, I followed up with Veteran's Affairs and the Canada Revenue Agency (which sent a GST cheque after his death). I had to notify them a couple of times and they informed me they did not receive his death certificate because it was not mailed to the right address.
The general process is to identify all the departments/organizations involved in I.D., health and credit cards and send death certificates to the appropriate departments.
Regarding accessing your father's account, I am assuming you don't have a joint account otherwise you wouldn't have asked the question. If you were power of attorney there is also no problem. As others have said, as long as the money was taken to pay for funeral expenses, that shouldn't even be an issue. I believe banks are more concerned with identity theft where whole bank accounts are almost wiped out.
When you contact Social Security about your father, ask about the death benefit from them as well. You only have a short time to make an application for the benefit and it's a small pittance compared to what the expenses are but in my experience in dealing with death of a parent, every penny counts and could come in handy.
At least here in Texas, there are a couple of things you need to know. With a parent, monies in their account should be ok to withdraw if used for funeral expenses and receipts kept in case the probate court needs to see them. If you are on the same account, there shouldn't be any questions at all about withdrawal. But notifying the SS will stop future checks from coming in. Some states require someone to be named executor or administrator in order to spend someone else's money even if it is a parent. Everyone should get something in writing before a death explaining how the final monies should be spent and who will withdraw it out. As for a spouse, having a will eliminates the need the court to get involved. When my husband was killed in a car accident, I had to go to court to be named administrator of his account since he didn't have a will. I wasn't allowed to touch his account until I went to court. Once named, I could spend the money on his funeral expenses and stone. Once all expenses were paid as well as taxes, the final left over amount was divided among his children. All states are different so check with the state offices to make sure you're following the right course.
Otto, I'm so sorry. I hate to see you having to worry in a time of grief. If the account was joint, or if you are the POA, you have the right to pull the money out. No questions asked. If you are the executor of the estate, that is also a protection. The executor is tasked with paying final expenses (with the deceased's money) and settling the estate. You have to access the estate in order to settle it, so that too should be fine, and that's what you should say if questioned. That being said, even if you made a mistake, I hardly think you'd be prosecuted. I've known of people who pulled the money out of their parent's accounts shortly after death to avoid it going through probate and guess what happened to them...nothing! Nor did they ever need to answer to anyone about what they did with the money. You pulled the money out and paid final expenses. I think as long as the check was deposited before death, he has a right to keep that money. If you made a mistake, and social security asks for the money back, give it to them. No problem. This is life, you are grieving, and I'm sure they understand that.
If your father's estate was put into a trust and you were allowed to take over his bank accounts, including being allowed to pay his outstanding bills, that is legal. However, you must contact SSA so that the social security checks your dad received stop. Do not close out his bank accounts until you file his 2015 tax returns, assuming he had enough income to report, including intetest income, qualified dividend income and ordinary dividend income. YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO USE HIS FUNDS FOR YOUR OWN BILLS/NEEDS.
Usually SS finds out as in my case I too lost my dad 2 months ago. I am so sorry for your loss. They automatically stopped his payments but in my moms case 12 years ago they gave her a payment on the day she passed and they never asked for the money back as she passed after they gave her the money. Do not rely on anyone elses judgement. Make sure they know as if the check goes into his account by mistake and the money is used it is called FRAUD!
Llamalover and blond, I honestly don't think it's that serious. It's one SS check, which he was probably entitled to anyway. By saying people are "not allowed" to this or that, it implies that some governing body has the time or inclination to look into it. I really don't think they care. When my mom dies, I'm closing her account because it will no longer need to be open. It's joint, so I'm pulling the money out and using it to pay her final expenses. It's not my job to make things easy for the government. It's not fraud that the heir took the money. It was his at that point anyway. It is fraud only if he keeps money his dad was not entitled to. But at that point the onus should be on the government not to issue SS checks to people who have passed. If it needs to be paid back, it will be paid back.
Social Security will be notified but it never hurts to notify them. Unless you are the executor of the estate what you did is not allowed by law, all assets are to be frozen at time of death. If you have a POA it is NO LONGER in affect, the estate takes over and will be responsible for paying any understanding bills. Also remember that any money your father received from SS for the month of his passing will be pulled back by SS.
communication with the proper organizations doesn't always happen. I know someone who kept on cashing the SS checks long after their mom passed away. totally wrong, not to mention illegal. I pointed that out but they didn't care and felt it was the govt's place to figure it out!
SallySee - as the executor you have the right to pay all bills before distributing the remaining money to the people listed in the will - in fact most wills state this. Again, keeping receipts, etc. is important.
Social Security should be notified as soon as possible. There is a small benefit payment from them to his estate but there is a time limit to file for that. If you don't file for it in time, it will be lost. You are obviously on his account or you wouldn't have been able to withdraw the money right? If you were not on his account you aren't entitled to the monies you withdrew until a court names you the administrator/administratrix of his account and then you can spend it on HIS expenses. Check your state policies though; some states are different in the way monies are handled. Don't close the accounts until you are certain all checks have come in, bank fees are paid and tax returns have been filed. It's easier to pay his final bills with his account than yours. Be sure to search for wills, insurance policies, etc. to tie up any loose ends. If he was in a union, there may be a death benefit from them to his heir as well. Most credit cards offer a death benefit if the cardholder paid for the insurance thru them so check all cards to see if he had paid for an insurance policy. Good luck and my condolences with your loss.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
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APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
In my experience, they already were and the checks just stopped. I don't know if it was the funeral home or some other entity who did the notifying, but the checks stopped without me doing anything. Just make certain you don't use money that goes in after the death since that could be a mistake.
Take care of yourself,
Carol
You may have to pay back social security for the previous month's payment depending on when your father died. They do not pay benefits for the month of death. That means if, for example, the person dies in October, the check received in November (which is payment for October) must be returned. So, I would advise you to call social security as soon as possible so you don't have to mess with returning money. It really doesn't take that long on the phone.
As far as taking money from your father's account, if you are on the account or have permission of access to the accounts from Dad's surviving spouse, if there is one, I think you'll be okay. Then again, I am not a lawyer. It's just that in my family, we don't steal from one another, so if I had needed money from my parents' accounts for final expenses, I would've told my mom and she would have given me permission to get the money, even though my name is on the accounts already. However, I realize not all families are like mine.
Don't panic. Everything will work out. It just takes some time. Take it one day at a time, and you'll get everything done that needs to be done. I wish you peace at this stressful time in your life.
I don't think a previous poster meant that you were "stealing" if you didn't ask permission from somebody - especially if there was no one to ask. If you aren't on his account - then taking money using his debit card for some final expenses is forgivable - just make sure you keep receipts of your purchases.
The funeral home notified the Social Security Administration when my Mom passed and they obtained copies of the death certificate for me (they asked me how many I wanted). Since Mom was a beneficiary on my father's work pension account, his VA pension and co-owner of their home and had medicaide, I had to notify each of those agencies and send the death certificate. You should look into what kind of health insurance, pensions, credit cards, etc. your father had and make sure notification takes place - some don't need the original death certificate.....most accepted a phone call and scanned and emailed copy from me.
God bless you and your family during this time. May you find peace soon.
If you think the NSF won't matter as their dead, well, it actually could. The bank can freeze the account if it's negative and place a claim against the estate for those charges & any fees which build each month. Also you"ll need a estate or executor account if you do probate, and the NSFs will pop up when a bank does a routine approval to open or change the titling on the account.
My mom died towards the end of the month. Both SSA & federal pension did the usual direct deposit on income for the next month. SSA did their clawback about 3 weeks later. But Feds did it 5 weeks later so 2 months later. Now Feds did send a "Are you dead" letter at 3 weeks which I filled out as the future executor that yes mom was dead.
Otto - please keep receipts on what you spent the $ on and to the penny. Whomever is the executor, if there is a will, needs these to establish the status of the estate as of DoD. If there is no will, most states have it such that all assets of the deceased escheat to the State.......so you may find yourself having to respond to the state on these funds....this could get pretty sticky.....
Just for information. When a husband dies the wife loses her SS and gets his, if his was higher. If hers is higher, then his drops. There will be a loss of income.
Sorry about the passing of ur Dad.
In answer to your question, I live in Canada so I'm sure there are policy differences. However, my experience with the government (and SS is part of the government bureaucracy) is that there are so many different departments and sometimes the information does not reach the right department. When my dad died last year, I followed up with Veteran's Affairs and the Canada Revenue Agency (which sent a GST cheque after his death). I had to notify them a couple of times and they informed me they did not receive his death certificate because it was not mailed to the right address.
The general process is to identify all the departments/organizations involved in I.D., health and credit cards and send death certificates to the appropriate departments.
Regarding accessing your father's account, I am assuming you don't have a joint account otherwise you wouldn't have asked the question. If you were power of attorney there is also no problem. As others have said, as long as the money was taken to pay for funeral expenses, that shouldn't even be an issue. I believe banks are more concerned with identity theft where whole bank accounts are almost wiped out.
Take care of yourself!
Our condolences.