How do you cope with a narcissistic Mom? What works for you?

We have long discussions about this on the Dysfunctional Family thread. There are A LOT of adult caregivers of the Cluster B disorders here: Narcissistic, Borderline, Hystrionic personality disorders.

If you didn't grow up with it or marry it, you have utterly no idea what we're talking about. My very used analogy is that this is NOT the Waltons, with happy Granny peeling apples at the table, patting the grandkids on the head.

Survivors of a person with a personality disorder are affected for the rest of their lives. It is impossible to stay sane & healthy while under the same roof. Sometimes while in the same city, state, or country! I moved 1800 miles 20 years ago.

After a lot of therapy, self-help work, and support groups, I am finally able to interact with mom without being emotionally eviscerated, fragile for days & days, sleepless, nauseous, and right back to experiencing all those lovely PTSD effects. It might not be this good if she were living in my home, which was never a permanent option anyway. She is in secure memory care now, and honestly, there is very little required from me for her care other than the odd decision or FYI update over the phone. This is a new era in our relationship.

There really ought to be sainthood available for anyone who has to directly caregive a loved one with a personality disorder, and bonus sainthood for the ones caregiving someone with a PD and a degenerative brain disease. Seriously. Calling some days h3ll on earth is not sufficient.

I apologize for Ferris 1's answer. I don't think menopause is her only issue.So, smitty, don't beat yourself up because that would make a narcissistic person's day.I have found that for the most part people on these forums are supportive,helpful and understanding. Don't let one bad apple, the above, chase you away. The majority of people on here usually have great advice, I have learned a lot from them. Dealing with a narcisstic person,my mother is one, especially one that is now dealing with health issues does not improve the problem. Just keep in mind, you will NEVER be right, you will ALWAYS be wrong,you will NEVER be as good as the sibling that does nothing for them.As soon as you can accept this it gets a little better, like learning a new dance routine, just takes practice. First rule, take GOOD care of yourself, mentally and physically, this isn't selfish. If something happens to you, there won't be anybody to take care of them. Also statistics also unfortunately show , I think it's somewhere between 30-60%, could be more or less, of caregivers die before the one they are taking care of.You can't survive tearing yourself in 2 to "please" someone that cannot be pleased.There is a reason that all of a sudden they have no one to take care of them except the one that usually took the most cr#p from them.Everybody else headed for the hills.You are not alone,took me 8 months of therapy to just begin to start dealing in a healthy way with my mom's behavior. Boundaries, you have to set up boundaries. Boundaries that the narcissistic person knows while be enforced,that are not going away no matter how much they escalate their behavior.This is not easy,they will try to wear you down and they are masters at it, they have had a lifetime to perfect their technique.Guilt is their big weapon, it's misplaced guilt but it can be very effective against their victim(caregiver).Now place dementia on top of this personality and you really have a nightmare.So far I don't have the dementia to deal with ,yet, I know my time will be coming, that's is why I try to learn from all the situations people on here are dealing with on a daily, minute by minute basis.Try to read as much as you can on this personality disorder,keep coming back to this site, it is a fountain of realtime info.

Hello Tex! Were your ears burning? Someone posted only yesterday wondering where you'd got to - glad to see you back :)

I understand, my grandmother would give gifts to people on my birthday and tell sorry I forgot, I hope to remember next year and my mother was about the same.
If you have never lived in the thick of it you will never understand how brainwashing working. They have you working for some you will never get {their love}.

Ferris1, I think mine just might!

gsw92498: I understand exactly what you're saying because I'm walking in your same shoes with my elderly dad. I agree with your statement that until someone has walked in our shoes with an NPD parent, they can't even begin to understand how horrible it is and the horrors family members have to endure. In fact, it's my dad's extreme narcissism and associated pathological behaviors that drove him to lie about me to legal authorities in his state and has put me in an untenable position with that state's legal system. I've walked away from my dad. Unlike your mom, who is able to express her love in words while her actions point to something quite the opposite, my dad doesn't even express his love for me in words, responds to my verbal expressions of love with a cold, detached "thank you", and his actions clearly show me that he doesn't love me. After initially being very hurt by this, I've come to accept that I have a dad who simply doesn't love his own daughter and likely isn't capable of doing so. However, he tells others that he loves me likely because he knows that if he didn't tell them that he loves his own daughter people would question his sanity and he may risk being declared mentally incompetent and lose his independence. Unlike your mom whose narcissism sounds like it's always been in high gear, my dad's narcissism wasn't in high gear in his younger years, although it was always present to some degree. He seemed able to balance his caring and love for my sister and me with his need to make it all about himself and to set aside or suppress his narcissism when it was necessary for the sake of his family. Back then, he loved and cared for his wife and daughters. Now, in the past 20-25 years (since he was in his late 60s), his narcissism has become quite extreme. And while he can readily express and demonstrate his love for non-family members, he can't do so for own family-- this is probably because non-family members don't know my dad well enough, so tend to idolize him and not challenge him on his pathological behaviors like his family does.

One thing to understand about narcissists is that they are very adept at manipulation, putting people on guilt trips, and getting people to fall for them and their manipulation hook, line, and sinker. And, because a narcissist is driven to never be seen as doing any wrong and always having to be right with everyone else being the wrongdoers, they tend to also be pathological liars. They're also very adept at garnering pity for themselves and leading people to believe that they're the victims, rather than the opposite (i.e., that they are the victimizers). This is especially dangerous when the narcissist is an elderly person because of elder abuse being such a hot button item these days. People need to understand that narcissists are sociopaths who lack little to any conscience, have escalated a normal amount of self-love/self-caring into self-idolization/believing themselves to be on a par with God, and will think nothing of betraying and hurting their loved ones for their own self-gratification and self-idolization. So, if you're dealing with a narcissist, especially a narcissistic elderly parent, I strongly encourage you to very closely watch your back and take all necessary steps to protect yourself from their pathological behaviors. If you notice that their narcissism is becoming extreme, run the other way, keep them at a very long arm's length, and detach yourself from them because nothing good ever comes from dealing with a narcissist. You will end up emotionally and mentally broken and in therapy for years to come trying to undo the damage your narcissistic family member has done to you. And remember that unless you have been legally named their POA or guardian, you have absolutely no legal obligation to care for or watch out for your elderly parents. If you're legally a narcissistic elderly parent's POA or guardian, take the necessary legal steps to end this role and let someone else take over for you. And, don't let your feelings of moral obligation cloud your perceptions with an elderly narcissist and lead you to fall into their narcissistic trap and become enmeshed with it. I wish I had realized all of this with my dad way earlier and/or that someone had advised me about the dangers of dealing with an elderly narcissist. Had I known and understood all of this, I would have detached from my dad years ago.

Thanks so much, Dr4terps. That was really helpful. I'm appreciative of your willingness to share your insights.

You're welcome, gsw92498. If my experiences with my dad can help even one person dealing with a narcissistic parent, I'll feel that something good has come from the horrors I've gone through with my dad. I'm sorry for what you're going through with your mom and hope that she never pulls on you what my dad pulled on me. I also hope that you'll find a way to heal from the deep hurt that she has inflicted on you. Know that I understand what you're going through and am sending best wishes and mental healing thoughts your way. It's a tough road dealing with a narcissistic parent.

Acceptance that your narcissitic family member's lack of love is not any reflection on you is critical here.
Very hard if you have been brought up thinking you are flawed or unlovable, but as adults we have the capacity to see this with adult eyes.
You own how you react.
Take the power back.

I'd never nirmally suggest walking away, but if people are toxic and incapable of change, and you cannot develop very thick skin, then it is something to consider.
Ironically a true narcissist probably won't actually get upset. They'll moan and whinge to anyone who'll listen 'poor me', but a little distance is probably a good idea. You can heal and choose if/when you resume visits. You need to keep yourself mentally healthy, especially if you have kids yourselves.

Clinical narcissists just exhaust everyone around them.
But it is a mental illness at the end of the day, the brain is a fragile thing.
(My dad is natcissistic, but my brother is full on clinical! Exhausting is not the word. Very small doses!!)

There are support sites out there especially for this, go google.

(Sorry, more typos! Iphone!!)

Good points, YoungestOfSix. I agree with your statement that you shouldn't take a narcissist's lack of love personally or to mean that you're flawed. Initially, I did personalize my dad's lack of love for me and wondered where I had gone wrong. Then I came to realize that I hadn't done anything wrong and that it was him and that he was no longer capable of loving anyone (not even my mom) but himself. Once I realized this, I came to accept that my dad will never be able to love me and I just need to accept him for the person he is, whether or not I like it. And, while he can very readily express his love for non-family members, I doubt that there's any sincerity in these expressions. While I don't like what my dad has become, while my mom was alive I just tried to work around it, especially because I was involved in her care and my dad's severe mental illness and some early dementia prevented him from being able to deal with my mom's needs-- plus, he was mentally and verbally abusing her and there was a grave concern by her care manager and others that this would escalate to physical abuse.

You stated that if you can't develop a thick skin, you should consider walking. However, there's another reason to walk from a narcissist, even when you've developed a thick skin like I have. That reason is when your narcissistic elderly parent has portrayed you to legal authorities as an elder abuser, coercer, and meddler of themselves and you're threatened with criminal prosecution by an assistant AG and accused of every lie your narcissist parent has told them about you and they believe the parent and won't listen to you. This is what happened to me, and on the very strong advice of my atty, I've had to choose to walk or risk more legal complications and high legal costs. So, in this case it doesn't matter how thick or thin a skin you have. Walking away in this case becomes a matter of your keeping yourself legally safe and out of prison and trying to hang on to your mental wellness.

I've been seeing a therapist for over 2 years now, working through the mental and emotional damage my dad's narcissism has wrought on me not just in the past 6 - 7 years, but also over my lifetime (something I hadn't realized until I started therapy). I'm seeing a Cognitive Behavioral Therapist and CBT has been very helpful, although I'm still working through many, many years of family dysfunction that resulted from my dad's mental illness.

Following is a book that my therapist recommended I read. I think this is a good one for anyone dealing with a narcissistic parent, but certainly there are other books and resources out there on narcissism and dealing with it. This book is available both as a hard copy book and a set of CDs from Amazon (I have the CDs):
"Splitting" by Bill Eddy and Randi Kreger. Eddy is both a licensed social worker and an atty. While the book deals with safely navigating through a divorce with a narcissist from the legal and psychological aspects, it has some perspectives that can be applied to generally dealing with a narcissist and how to detach from the manipulation, etc., that accompanies narcissism. People with narcissistic parents/siblings, etc., should also read about setting boundaries. Here are a few from a reading list my therapist gave me (I haven't read any of these yet):
1. Boundaries and Relationships by Charles Whitfield
2. Boundaries by Townsend and Cloud
3. Boundaries: Where You End and I Begin by Anne Katherine

There are many other categories of books on the reading list, some dealing with anger and healing. I may also have names of other books about dealing with a narcissist that aren't on the list in notes I take at my therapy sessions. If I find any of names of books in my notes, I'll post them to this thread.

Wish there was a check box for "helpful + answer" - well done to you, rr4.

Thanks, Countrymouse. I agree and also wish there was a way to reply directly to specific responses within a thread-- i.e., in addition to the "Helpful Answer", there would also be a "Reply". Having to using the "Answer this Question" box often places a reply several screens down from a particular response. I also wish there was a way to edit our replies so we could correct typos in our replies. Oh well... I'm just glad for this site and wish I had been aware of it about 6 or so years ago when I was first starting to deal with my elderly parents.

It is 5am where im at. I haven't slept well all night. Grandma is "sick" again with this Alzheimer's/dementia thing again. Again me and her daughter/my mom have uprooted our lives for grandma's sake and i think she likes it....all the fuss made over her. Like the times before, thinking she can't live alone, the doctors telling us to prepare for the decline..we change living situations, run out &get supplies, put life on hold to "Do what's RIGHT" only to have Grandma wrap us around her tiny finger, get well enough to put us down, run the house, make it unbearable and laugh about it ALL! Flippant. Mean, surly, ornery and gloating! See, im up at 5am because despite the consideration for the health issues of her caregivers, grandma wants the heat on H*LL! I moved her in with me thinking she needs help, come to find out she CAN WALK, she starts talking agin on the uhaul ride here and she CAN THINK & REMEMBER too! Its 2003 all over AGAIN! She did this before! Went all nutty and invalid-like only to bounce back and try to make our lives hell &rule the house. We let it happen each time.....WHY!??! Granny had 9 children & only 6 living...1 of those is developmentally disabled (my mom). The other 5 keep at a distance. One goes so far as to declare her dead to anyone who asks...Me and Ma are tjethe ONLY ones who deal with her... I was up sweating and googling what could act as Alzheimer's but comes and goes when i ran across this forum and joined immediately. I identified with this topic. Narcissistic Grandma has raised, ran my life, crushed my spirits &dreams for 35years. 22 of those years spent trying to keep her healthy...looking after her affairs. I've done the same for DD Mom, but she's a sweetheart and it has been a joy! Grandma and her surly, ruling, laughing and gloating attitude is a whole other story. If God cares any at all, maybe He will fix this or FIX HER....isn't it a sin to cry wolf? Just had to vent...thank you for reading. God Bless us caregivers because WE carry the BIGGEST of Crosses...hopefully that Crown of Life has hella Bling!

RR4terps Amen! Like the other person, i wish i could voteUP your response....reminds me of years 2006 - 07 with Narcissistic-Grandma... omg yes! Amen!

Narcissistic family was the norm, the bad part about is I was my fathers child but my mothers children was like her family. I never understand why my family hated me. My father just told me when is was growing up that I took after him.

Cornerstoner: I'm so sorry to hear what you're going through with your narcissistic and demented grandma. Not an easy road for you. Narcissism alone is exhausting to deal with, then add dementia to that and it's a no win situation. You also have your hands full with your DD mom. It sounds like you're overwhelmed taking care of both your mom and your grandma, really way too much for one person to handle or bear the burden of, especially given the fact that your grandma is living with you. Narcissists drain you mentally and emotionally and steal your soul and suck you dry through manipulation, then spit you out by accusing you of things and making you feel guilty. They take you for granted, show no appreciation and will think nothing of biting the hand that feeds them by turning against you and betraying you and lying about you to others. Dealing with a narcissist will only cause you heartache and will lead to no good. A narcissist is a sociopath with little to no conscience. So, you need to protect yourself from a narcissist mentally, emotionally, as well as legally.

If you and/or your mom don't legally have the power of attorney (POA) and/or legal guardianship over your grandmother, then you have absolutely no legal obligation to take on the responsibility of your grandma's care or to even provide a place in your home for her. And, if either of you has legally become her POA and/or have legal guardianship over her, this doesn't mean that you are obligated to take on the burden of her daily caregiving yourselves, put up with her horrible and disrespectful behaviors toward you, or to have her live with you. My atty told me that the role of a medical POA is basically one of giving doctors permission to do medical procedures or other medical things that they deem necessary-- i.e., basically the medical POA responsibility is just signing off on things the drs need to do. Please also realize that whether or not you have the legal obligation of taking care of your grandma/her needs, if she is behaving so horribly toward both you and your mom, you don't have a moral obligation to take on the burden of the care for someone who treats you so disrespectfully and sucks the life out of you. It's the feeling that we have a moral obligation to the elderly that often drives us to put up with their crap, be mentally abused by them, and allows us to be led, either by our own disordered thinking or the opinions of others (and who cares what others think-- they can't understand a caregiver's situation) that we have failed our elderly relatives as daughters/sons or grandchildren. This feeling of moral obligation is an easy trap to fall into. Nobody should allow themselves to be treated with disrespect and to be manipulated or mentally abused by their elderly relatives, or to feel like they've failed their elderly relatives when place their relatives in a facility or turn over their elderly relative's care to the experts. Also, what I've learned from dealing with my severely mentally ill dad is that there is no such thing as a “nice little old man” or “nice little old lady”. From my perspective, this is purely a myth. So I urge you, given your situation, to drop any feelings of moral obligation you and your mom may feel toward your grandma and to find a facility for her and get her out of your home. Also please remember that when you become physically and mentally burned out, as it sounds like you (and to an extent your mom) have become, you become less effective as a care giver with the risk of unintentionally causing physical harm to your grandma and to yourself (i.e., back injuries from having to lift and/or transfer her, etc). Caregiving is a mentally and physically demanding and tiring responsibility that many times is best left to people specifically trained in this area to do. And at the very, very least, caregivers caring for their relatives in-home need to find respite care (there are facilities that provide this) from their caregiving duties in order to maintain their own physical and mental well-being so that they can be effective caregivers.

Given that it sounds like you're mentally and physically at a breaking point with your grandma along with the added responsibility of caring for your DD mom, I would suggest that you consider finding other living arrangements for your grandma--- i.e., in a care facility or adult care home. Leave her care and the dealing with the effects of her narcissism to the experts at a facility. This doesn't mean that you can't be a caring grandchild from a distance or that your mom can't be a caring daughter from a distance. And, it doesn't mean that either of you are turning your backs on your grandma or failing her as a grandchild/daughter, but rather are keeping her at arm's length while protecting yourselves emotionally/mentally/physically and letting trained personnel deal with all of this. In my opinion, this doesn't make you a bad person. Also, if you decide to place your grandma into a facility, please DO NOT allow her to put you on a guilt trip or to manipulate you into changing your minds--- narcissists are very good at doing this. You need to put on a coat of armor and inoculate yourself from your grandma and just go ahead with your plans (basically, stick both of your index fingers in your ear canals while loudly saying “La, la, la, la, I'm not listening to you”). It's now time for both you and your mom to take care of your own needs and put those first and leave your grandma's care to others-- you've done the best you can for her. As a I stated previously, care giving is a physically and mentally demanding job. And, given that you have no support from your uncles and aunts and are carrying a very heavy burden between your grandma and your mom, you shouldn't throw your own needs and health by the wayside. If you are unable to financially afford the costs of a facility for your grandma and your aunts and uncles can't or won't help out with this expense, please consider getting your grandma on Medicaid, which will cover a lot of the expenses of a facility – as long as your grandma doesn't have the financial resources to pay for this. If your grandma has financial resources to pay, then use those to pay for her facility until her financial resources are totally exhausted. Then at that time, apply for Medicaid for her. Also please be aware that even though your aunts and uncles have washed their hands of your grandma and don't lift a finger to help you and your mom, when your grandma dies and it comes to distributing her financial and tangible assets, you can count on them all suddenly showing up at your door with their hands held out telling you and the attorneys that they're owed some of your grandma's money or some of her tangible property items, by virtue of them being her kids. And, they'll likely lie about their non-involvement in your grandma's life, portraying themselves as having been there for her or saying that you never enlisted their help and they didn't realize you and your mom needed their help. In fact, if you haven't enlisted their help, you may want to do so, even knowing they won't help, just so they can't turn around, when your grandma dies and they're after her assets, and say you never asked them You and your mom need to legally protect yourselves, as soon as possible, both from your uncles and aunts and also from your grandma and the effects of her narcissism. I wish I had done this with my dad way before he put me in the untenable situation with legal authorities in his state.

Also, one thing about Alzheimer's that I learned in dealing with my mom is that people with this disease or other types of dementia can go in and out of lucidity. There were times that my mom was really lucid and her caregivers could have a very logical conversation with her. Then, within even a few minutes, she would be confused and unable to put together a coherent sentence or to verbally express what she wanted to communicate--- i.e., she couldn't find the words. However, when she was unable to verbally express herself, she was able to show it with body language and facial expressions. I don't know how far along your grandma is with her Alzheimer's, but wonder if she isn't in a mid-stage phase where it's common to see this going in and out of lucidity. With a demented narcissist, it's very hard to separate what is actually part of the narcissism and is being done on purpose and what is being driven by dementia and not being done willfully/on purpose. This has been the case with my dad, who is suspected of having some early dementia but is very adept at hiding both this and his mental illness from non-family members. Knowing my dad as well as I do and with him having a long-standing mental illness dating back to his youth and my having grown up with the effects of his mental illness on my family's dynamics, with his narcissism having become quite extreme later in life (from his mid-60s on. He's almost 93), I would say that the horrible way he treats others, especially his family, is done willfully and consciously because this is the way he's treated us for many, many years., even when he had no degree of dementia. My mom wasn't a narcissist, but with her going in and out of lucidity depending on whether or not she was ill and/or weak or depending on the day, as with your grandma, she at times was able to help her caregivers with transferring her from wheelchair to a regular chair, able to walk short distances on her own with a walker, to help them dress her, and/or to feed herself with little to no help from her caregivers. But at other times, she was unable to do so--- even sometimes within hours or minutes during the same day. It was obvious that she wasn't do any of this willfully, but rather that it was part of the disease process. Given that my mom was a fiercely independent woman, even with her dementia, she would have wanted to be able to do for herself all of the time.

Thank You rr4terps! I needed to hear/read that.... you are not the omlyonly one to say let heher go. I had promised after that hellish 2007 experiment in home care for grandma that i would NEVER do this sh#t again! I failed my own test/goal... i got sucked back into her web of bs! Naw, granny gotta go! I dont have poa-i hesitated. ..im glad i did. Her kids (my uncles/aunts) are getting an ultimatum. ..step up, or the state steps in b/c me and ma have HAD IT! She's mean! God dont like ugly¬ too keen on pretty....me, im fed up with BOTH! My rresponsibility by rite, morally and biblically is my Mother. Im gonna do what im SUPPOSED to do. Screw this martyr crap!

Way to go, Cornerstoner! Take back your life. I understand what you're saying about failing your own test/goal. I also got caught in that trap where I'd say that certain things were going to happen or that I wasn't going to get involved in certain things but then got drawn in and ended up doing the exact opposite of what I had told myself I wasn't going to do, only to kick myself later for not following my gut and sticking by my guns. It's all part of the manipulation of a narcissist. Does your mom hold the POA or have legal guardianship of her mother/your grandmother? If she doesn't, does one of your uncles or aunts? The biggest first step to reclaiming your life and mental wellness, whether or not your mom has the POA, is to get your grandma out of your house and into a facility and let trained care giving staff take care of her. The thing is that whoever has the POA will be the one to get the phone calls from the facility when your grandma is either misbehaving or she has medical issues. If your mom doesn't have the POA, then whoever does is the one whose name should be given to the nursing home staff as the contact person. If it's your mom, she's going to receive the calls unless she legally withdraws-- i.e., her name has to be removed from your grandma's POA document by an attorney, and the attorney should be able to guide you and your mom about naming another POA and who to name-- or, if none of your aunts/uncles are willing to be named POA, the atty should be able to guide you through the steps to make your grandma a ward of the state. Given your grandma's narcissism, even though she'll initially try to manipulate you and put you on a guilt trip about putting her into a facility, it's all a big show and deep down she doesn't give a sh*t. Now it's time for you and your mom to do what's best for both of you.

Best of luck as you go through this and I hope that you and your mom regain your lives and your sanity.

I took care of family over twenty year for love that I was never ever going to get. Isn't funny you crave the love of the ones that hate you and you will do anything for them even if it kills you. Some how the ones right in your face that has always loved you they blend in the back ground. I forgot to see the loved ones that loved me because I was trying to win the ones that didn't. If they weren't family would they be in your life. So why does blood mine so much to us when it doesn't mean sh*t to them. doesn't that say something look that them and ask would they do the same for me and put up with the same sh*t. If the answer is no why are you giving up your days for someone that would do the same. what is your worth to you because you know your worth to them.

After 57 years of trying to please my mother & get her to show me love, I finally walked away for good this last time. In the past I kept going back for more, like I was a glutton for punishment. It has been almost a year now and I can honestly say I am so close to total acceptance of the situation...I can finally begin to heal without her toxic behavior making me feel unlovable & worthless as a human being.

Yep. If you don't look after yourself no-one else will.
Being old doesn't excuse cruelty.
If you are getting emotionally battered then get a little distance and heal guys.
Great book suggestions rrterps.
Hope you all find some peace, and soon.
You ARE lovable! You DON'T deserve to be their punchbag.
You CAN change your life for the better.
It get's better guys!

.. forgot to say... you can't change a true narcissist. And you can't cure Dementia.
Acceptance is really liberating.
But if there is one good quality in them, try to conciously focus on that and see what happens.
And tell them.
It can make a real difference; rather than having that awful Pavlovian anticipation of their bad behaviour.


Antony Robbins used to have good CD session in his Personal Power series on Neural Pathway Reprogramming (I think)
Really worked on me, changed how I responded to someone's bullying.
Basically, I had to blow a 'raspberry' everytime I thought of that person... pretty soon I found I smiled when I thought of them instead of feeling sick and stressed out.
Made a HUGE difference.
Sounds daft but it still to this day makes me smile (I'd have to do it in public, not just at home... felt so silly but did make me laugh at myself. Replaced the panicky anxiousness)

Good perspectives, YoungestofSix. Thanks also for the resource (Antony Robbins' book). There are many books out there with "Narcissist" in the title and cover areas such as parents, kids, etc. I like the idea of blowing the raspberry and may try that when I think of my dad and the legal authorities in his state (especially the detective and assistant AG).

I also agree with you that you have to look after yourself because nobody else will and that being old doesn't excuse cruelty and/or disrespect.

One thing that I know that can be liberating is forgiveness. A friend of mine who was betrayed by someone she trusted told me that she had to dig deep down within herself to forgive her betrayer but that it was very liberating and that it has helped her to heal and move on. Another friend whose siblings betrayed her and her parents was able to forgive two of her 3 siblings when they reached out to her and apologized. She's found this very healing and her siblings' continued reaching out has helped her to heal (her dad died as a result of her siblings actions). I'm not at the point yet to be able to forgive my dad for his betrayal and the manifestations of his narcissistic behaviors, and don't know if I ever will be. And even if I could forgive him, I highly doubt that I could ever reattach with him or would want to. He's just way too toxic and I don't feel that I have to put up with his disrespect and toxicity.

One thing that my therapist has asked me to think about is whether my dad, as a person, can be separated from his mental illness or if the mental illness has become one with his personhood and nature. And, she's also asked me if it should be his mental illness that I'm angry at and deeply despise or him, as a person. She asked me to consider if I would feel any differently toward him if he had a physical illness, such as cancer, instead of a mental illness. In this case, which would I be angry at and despise--- my dad or the cancer? Interesting perspective to think about because in both cases, the illness would consume a person's body and both can alter a person. As I see it, if my dad had cancer but was treating his family as reasonably as could be expected given the effects of the cancer despite the physical manifestations of the illness, I would be angry at and despise the cancer, not him as a person, for doing what it was to him. But, with a mental illness such as narcissism, it affects the person's behavior and leads them to treat others/do things to others that can deeply and negatively impact those in their lives.

Prayer, weed & more prayer has helped some with my Narcissist of a Grandmother i've been caring foefor these years.... it helps to have friends to vent to who know about the situation AND an understanding community like AgingCare.com :) Thanks y'all. ..been a biiiiig help since i found this site a couple of anxious &angry nights ago :)

Can't nothing get at you like your own family.

1butterfly: Here's the name of a book that may be helpful as you're healing from your mom's mental abuse of you: "Toxic Parents" Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life" by Susan Forward and Craig Buck. I had never heard of this book until I saw it mentioned in an advice column in our newspaper. I went to Amazon and read a little about the book. It's about parents who have treated their kids (both adult and non-adult) disrespectfully and have put them down and told them that they're worthless, as it sounds like your mom has made you feel for most of your life. I'm fortunate that my dad loved me and didn't treat me like I was worthless until these past 7-9 or so years when my mom became demented and could no longer keep him and his narcissism under control. My mom bore the brunt of my dad's narcissism and horrible behaviors for many years while she shielded my sister and me from it.
It was only after she became demented about 10 yrs ago and I had to deal with my dad on a different level that I fully was exposed to and realized what a toxic and horrible person he is. But like you, I put up with his disrespect and crappy behavior toward me because I needed to be there for my demented mom to make sure she got the care that she needed given my dad's extreme narcissism, his sabotaging of her care and making it all about himself at the expense of my mom's mental and physical well-being.

You mentioned that you finally walked away from your mom. I applaud you for recognizing that you had to get away from your mom's toxicity and then detaching from her and not allowing yourself to be enmeshed with her and her toxicity any longer. It's wonderful that you've reclaimed your life and with it, your self-esteem. What you've done is powerful and it sounds like you've recognized that you can't reattach with her in a healthy way. This is the same conclusion I've come to with my dad. You mentioned that you kept going back for more as if you were a glutton for punishment. What you were experiencing was being manipulated into feeling that you owed your mom something and, as a daughter, felt obligated to put up with her crap (same thing I felt with my dad, especially when my demented mom was alive). Narcissists use manipulation as a way to enmesh and trap us into their mental illness without us even realizing that we're being enmeshed, although we may realize that we're being manipulated (I certainly realized that my dad was manipulating me, but felt powerless against it while my mom was alive). It seems like it takes some breaking point or event that makes people finally detach from and set strong boundaries with narcissists as you and I have done. For me, that detachment and boundary setting came with my dad's betrayal.

I agree with YoungestofSix's statement that we are lovable and shouldn't allow ourselves to be used as punching bags. And, I agree that once you reach inner peace, things get better.

Hang in there 1butterfly and know that by walking away from a toxic parent, you're reclaiming your sense of self and your self-esteem and will gain a level of inner peace as you detach and distance yourself from your mom. You deserve all of the best for putting up with her and her toxicity.

Best wishes to you as you move forward on your journey.

I am experiencing this now with my mom. Never new it was a diagnosis. It has helped me dramatically. I now know it is ok to walk away. I have been my Mom's caretaker for 10 years. She does have a companion who can handle her much better then I, but of course the companion is getting paid and will "yes" her to eternity. I cannot. We had a blow out last Sat. I haven't spoke to her until today and asked her if she is joining the family for Thanksgiving. " i don't know if I should" she states. I spoke "you should it is Thanksgiving", ok I will bring the lasagna. That was it. We will be with alot of people so my conversation will be minimal. Love this forum and pray for all of us as well as the narcissus.

Thank you rr.

You're welcome 1butterfly.

msjpk501: Good luck with your at your Thanksgiving dinner. Just keep to mundane topics with your mom (weather, etc.) and if she puts all of the focus on herself, just let it go in one ear and out the other and be glad that you've walked away from her. It'll be good for your mental and physical wellness to distance yourself from her.