Dad (75) emotionally abused by oldest son but won't do anything about it. Advice?

As long as your father keeps protecting your brother there’s nothing you can do. If you report it & it’s investigated your dad will deny everything so they won’t be able to help.

I was in a similar situation & there’s nothing you can do.

My heart goes out to you. From the symptoms you describe it sounds like your brother needs assessing and medication. The paranoia and the controlling behaviours, the aggression and the self neglect (when left alone) etc. sound serious.
The issue with an undignosed and untreated condition (e.g. such as schizophrenia or bipolar) is that it can get worse. Verbal aggression fueled by paranoia can lead to unreasonable demands and physical aggression.
Your father sounds like a lovely person who has tried to do his best for his children. He has tried to look after his son without involving outside authorities but sometimes we have to get the help. He might be surprised by how much a little help might do.
If he is frightened of his son's reaction to enlisting help, then that is all the more reason to contact someone but either way something needs to be done, as the situation sounds unsustainable.
It sounds like you need to talk to your father and explain that one of you need to call for outside intervention. You need to explain the situation has worsened since COVID and can get worse again. That you are ALL suffering, that it is time.
Start small, call a help line and discuss the options, see your own doctor and talk to them about it, open up to the choices. The situation has been met before, there are people who can help.

I thought elder abuse is a crime. Your brother is abusing an elder. Doesn't have beat him up by punching or slapping him. It is emotional and financial abuse. Seems to me a common thing these days. Dad has money and property and is being manipulated by son. I would think that a victim like this is often afraid to press charges. Police know this. Okay, everybody is mental here but brother is the abuser. A criminal matter. Record or film brother abusing father and report it to police or APS. Maybe consult lawyer or get advice first if it helps you. You don't know what brother may have done with dad's property. That may require investigation. Make sure dad has the vaccine for covid.

Dear helpfather: Prayers sent.

He definitely needs a check up from the neck up.

Regrettably this is a story too familiar. One of the problems with people who are emotionally abused are scared of the people who are abusing them. Sort of like the Stockholm syndrome. The way to survival is maintaining a good relationship to prevent physical abuse.
You can report your findings all you like, but until your dad stands up and says something that leads APS or police to believe that is a proble. It will continue. Went through 9 years of it with one of our family members

I hope you will at least seek help from an elder care attorney to find out what and whe. they can assist you.

Much helpful & good advise .. I hope that this will open a door for you. Right now you are not living the life God wants for you. You are afraid & I get that.. having someone qualified to talk to will help you formulate a plan .. First step is always the hardest.

Yes exactly - it's your brother who needs intervention. He's not a well man. Until your brother has help of some other sort your father is going to allow himself to be a verbal punchbag.

Bear in mind there could be quite a lot of documented medical and psychiatric history that is confidential and has been intentionally kept from you. How long would you say your brother has been ill?

It is time to have social services receive an anonymous phone call to do a well check....ON YOUR BROTHER. Sounds like he needs to be on meds and often a short hospitalization for testing/diagnosis comes first. Make the call.

I'm sorry, but your therapists are right, you can't save your father from himself, especially if he is competent. You can open a door but you can't make your father walk through it. Leave lines of communication open - I do hope your father has his own cell phone. Please stop the guilt as the situation is not your fault - I do know this is easier said than done.

You really need to get your own place to break the cycle of enabling; whether it's the other house you supposedly own - or you find an apartment. One reason why I hope your father has his own cell phone so you can continue to communicate.

Maybe the better solution would report your brother as a danger to himself and others around him.

Please listen to your therapists. Your brother is responsible for his own life as long as he is competent - which may be the question here. Your father is responsible for his life and you are responsible for your life.

I wish you peace.

You take care of dad's bills, etc - which means you have some kind of access to his money. Apparently, he has quite a bit of money at the moment. Use the money to hire in home caregivers to ensure he has adequate care. If they cook a meal for dad, there should also be enough to feed his son as well. Their observation will let you know about abuse. Keep in mind, though, that although your brother may really have some mental issues, the dynamic between father and son may just be exactly what you can't live with. They can. You can't. Some families, especially in the caregiving circles and in close proximity to each other all the time, communicate in angry voices. They don't see anything abnormal about it. The neighbors know you are there, so they probably think if it's ok for all 3 of you to live like that, it's none of their business.

If things get totally out of hand, you should be the person to call 911. If I were you, I'd also be recording some of the episodes so if dad won't admit what's going on, you have some proof. As I said, dad may be ok with this being normal. It might only be you who can longer live in the middle of it.

Since dad already bought you a house, tell him you want to move in it. You will come get him to stay a few nights whenever he wants a break, but you just can't live in the situation anymore. You can still order groceries, pay bills, etc from your new house. When groceries are delivered, brother can wipe them down or not.

If not already done, perhaps encourage dad/brother to get a vaccine. Perhaps both would feel more protected with it. If brother doesn't want one - ok - but push dad to get it done.

Okay, so a therapist told you to move on but you say you’ll have too much guilt if you do. Can’t you see how much alike you and your father are? Your father can’t throw your brother out because he’ll feel guilty if he does. You won’t leave because you’ll feel guilty if you do. Leave! Call your father daily to see if he needs anything. If he wants help he’ll ask.

You say you do not want to leave due to not knowing how to live with that guilt.
I am taking a leap here and would say that
* What you believe is guilt may be fear of being on your own.
* You need to cultivate self-esteem and self-worth.
* Why are you NOT in therapy now?
* If the house is yours, ask for legal documents.
* Learn that people make their own decisions and must live with them (you and your dad).
* You taking on 'guilt' due to your Dad's decision to allow your bro to stay there is what he has decided and the guilt reflects how you deal with others' feelings - taking them on as your own responsibility.
* The first responsibility you have is to YOURSELF.
* Get back into therapy to discuss these matters. You will not change until you are ready, even if you are in therapy. However, with the right therapist, friends, county support, you have many opportunities to change and grow.

The way you learn to live with your feelings is by 'BEING WITH them' feeling through them. Not hiding or running away from them = with self-acceptance, unconditional self-love, process and understand them.
Then feelings change.

As you learn to care about yourself for a quality life (free-er of the stressors you now experience), you will learn how to deal with life situations as they come up.

In regard to your dad lying to authorities re the treatment / behavior of his son towards him, set up a hidden camera. And/or at least have your cell phone mic on when you encounter these situations. And, if your dad wants to deny abuse, reality, that again is his choice. Why are you making it / his decisions / frame of mind / your responsibility? It isn't.

Some feelings are 'simply' HARD to face and feel. This is life. Learn to value yourself enough to do this hard work, facing yourself.

If there is another house and your dad says it's yours, tell him to prove it. Then move in there yourself.
What I think could be going on here is your father tolerates the abuse and won't allow anything to be done about it because he doesn't want to look like the "bad guy" who threw his mentally ill son out. Your father won't let you live in the other house because someone has to be responsible for them both and he's probably afraid to live alone with your brother too. So your father will do whatever he has to do to keep you there.
You say your parents bought your brother a house so they would not have to evict him. They did this because neither of them wanted to live with him. That has not changed.
I will tell you what must be done and it will no doubt be very hard. Someone needs be the "bad guy" here. Your father knows it and wants it. Unfortunately it will have be you.
The next time your brother goes on a tirade, step outside and call 911. Then tell the police that your brother is mentally ill and making threats. If there's any way you can get the abuse recorded on your phone or by a nanny cam placed somewhere even better.
The best outcome is it will result in your brother being in the hospital on a 72-hour psychiatric hold. This might be enough for your father to realize that his enabling your brother isn't helping the guy and it's dangerous for everyone in the house.
Your therapist is absolutely right about no one being able to save your father from his own choices. Of course you will have guilt about leaving. He's your dad and you love him, but sometimes tough love is the best love in a situation like yours.
You leaving will be the best thing for you, your father, and your brother.
Your father needs someone to handle things at his place and will put the situation into perspective when no one is. He will likely stop enabling your brother and make him go. This will be best for him too because it likely will force him out of denial about being mentally ill and needing help. It will be best for you too. Either the situation will improve and you can go back, or it doesn't and you won't have to be responsible for it anymore.
Please go. Keep us updated here too. Good luck to you and I hope you find the strength to do what you know must be done.

I understand your feelings. I had to walk away from the same sort of situation. In my case I was in an abusive home growing up, then an abusive marriage. I got help. My family did not. During the pandemic- they got even more crazy. When they resorted to their sick old ways- I had a choice to make. Either I throw away the good in my life and fall back into place in their sick world or let them go and stay in the good place that I had worked to get to. I do it with love. It hurts. It is sad. But I have a future worth caring about and protecting.
I wish you so much peace. I hope you receive the strength and support and guidance to help you through this hard time. And I hope you find your way to what makes you happy.

We have a situation in my family where there is a strange abusive codependency between and adult and their adult grandson. I had to call 911 due to hearing the abuse over the phone earlier this week.

When the RCMP followed up with me, they said they often see these sorts of relationships and it is like an abusive marriage where the abused often will not leave nor press charges.

It seems like you are part of this co-dependant relationship too. At 34, you should be living your best life, working, in a relationship, perhaps a family of your own, not feeling trapped by your brother's mental illness.

One question I have for you, you say you wonder why the neighbours have not called the cops. Why have you sat by and not called the police? Why do you feel it is the neighbours responsibility to call them?

You feel guilt at the thought of leaving, but what are you feeling by sitting by and not reporting the abuse?

If your Dad is capable of making his own decisions it seems he has already made them. You say he doesn't want intervention, and is caring for himself and that he doesn't wish to evict your brother.
Were I you I would move out, find my own job and living quarters, and call APS to do wellness checks, telling them what you have to us about your brother's mental deficits and the hoarding.
This isn't something you can do anything about on your own. So take care of your own life.
I agree with your therapists. They have given you good advice. As to guilt, you are not a felon, so that is the wrong word. The G word you want is grief. Do know, not everything can be fixed. It is often easier for us to stay in a tormented situation rather than to learn new ways for our own lives.

Seems that each person living in your hope has mental health issues - sorry. You see the difficult behaviors of your brother and the enabling of your brother and don't take action. Seems that you are also enabling the situation by your inaction. Your father won't take action from his own fears: fear of losing your brother, fear of your brother not caring for himself, and probably fear of your brother's outbursts. Your brother's out of control paranoia is actuality in charge of the home.

May I make a suggestion - take your father out of the home into your home. Get help from whatever resources are available to help care for him. Tell your brother he needs to move into his own home and/or sell whichever home your father chooses so he has more resources for his own care. Then, check in on your brother frequently, If your brother neglects himself, then send him for an involuntary psychiatric evaluation and treatment. Yes, your brother will act out about your actions and your father's actions - he already acts out. At least you and your father stop being victims in this family drama.

At first I thought your post was someone writing this on my behalf - our situations are so similar. I am 50 living with my super narcissistically abusive youngest brother and dad - brother emotionally abuses both of us, moved his girlfriend in, and talked my dad into buying a $2million lake home which brother and gf enjoy amenities of while I care for dad 24/7 due to covid. My dad still has his other house nearby and he and I have gone there to stay a couple times when things have gotten bad. Dad doesn't really like going over there, especially as time passes and the house has more neglect.

Brother runs dad's business, makes $1million a year, has a home in another state, is buying another in another state, comes and goes as he pleases but says he does most of dad's care, and has been controlling me and my finances (I quit my job and moved to another state to care for dad because brother guilted me into it "you will be well off after dad passes - he has the finances to have a good life, you owe it to him to commit a couple years to this".

Well it's been 2 years, my marriage almost crumbled, my husband is here now but I am only allowed to see him 18 hours a week if my brother is able/willing to watch dad, my career has evaporated, my health is poor, and I've lost all my friends. I am hiring someone 25 hours a week next week and would eventually like to remove myself from this situation and try to regain my health. I despise my brother so much and I am allowing this situation to kill me and destroy my life - I need to leave but I have a fear of leaving my brother in charge of dad and dad's care (dad is not with it after his stroke, but my brother insists he is competent to make decision brother likes and incompetent to make decisions brother doesn't like). I am worried that my brother will neglect my dad's health and contribute to his fast decline while convincing dad to write me out of the will, and here I've given up my job/retirement/health in the promise of being financially set for the future by my dad.

I am so sick of the abuse/fear/anxiety/indecision that I know I have to find the best care I can for dad, move out, and cut my losses. I do believe that if I move out of this house that my brother will find a way to ban me from access and checking on the quality of care my dad is receiving, plus I believe my brother will be more abusive when no one is around to witness or be me/his punching bag. I think a family member always needs to be with my dad, and my brother travels for business - I don't want to get in the situation of having to drop everything to come oversee dad's care when my brother wants/needs to travel and endure more of brother's control/abuse. I have given my dad the choice to return back to my hometown and have his care overseen by me and my other brother, and dad chooses to stay here. He is with it enough to make this decision, so I have to let him choose his course.

Good advice in this forum here - I have posted many times, gotten good advice, and while I haven't been able to act on most of the advice I wanted to accept (also due to covid), writing posts and reading responses has helped me to more clearly see my situation and start to form a vision for my future for me. I hope you find what you need to help yourself, so that you can have the peace and security you deserve.

You said that your Dad would not admit to any abuse? Perhaps he can't accept that it is abuse? Does he feel guilty and thus enables his son? How about documenting it? Write it down, video it etc. and show it to your Dad or turn it in. Your brother needs help (does he need medication?), your Dad needs protection and you need a break. Hugs to you.

You said your brother got z hefty inheritance, what about you Tell?

Tell your Dad that he chooses to stay there with older brother but you want to live in the other house that's suppose to be yours.

If he doesn't agree, MOVE.

What a shame you need to start thinking about yourself for a change or you will burn yourself out elderly families are hard work got sure as I have an elderly mum and have found that I don’t go round every day like I used to due to the fact it was affecting my work and my health and feel better for it try if you can to distance yourself for a few days and give yourself a break good luck

I would strongly advise you to listen to your therapists. There are some family dynamics that simply cannot be fixed. Helping their son has probably been a long-term consideration for mom and dad. Ultimately it is up to your dad to decide how much he wants to endure for the sake of his son. And you will have to decide how much you can put up with for the sake of your dad. I don't think either of you are going to be able to "cure" what sounds like long term mental illness. Have you been able to talk to your dad about what will happen to his son after dad's death?

You say, "I used to go to therapy and all my therapists would say "leave, you can't save him from his own choices," but I don't know how I can live with that guilt."

If you will not take the advice of all of your therapists to leave such a dysfunctional household, what advice will you take from us on this forum?

Your father also has issues that you're refusing to acknowledge. If one of my children were to treat me the way your brother is treating your father, I would kick them OUT of my life and tell them not to come back until & unless they got help for their problems and could treat me with respect. That your father chooses to ACCEPT the abuse is HIS choice and his problem. You can't fix that.

You are allowed to have a life of your own without playing into this dynamic your father & brother have created. Guilt should play no part in your decision because you did not create the problem these two are perpetuating. Maybe they both enjoy the drama. Have you considered that?

Whatever you decide to do, do something for YOURSELF. Dad's a grown man and capable of moving into the other house he owns. He's also capable of telling his son ENOUGH of the abuse, and to move out.........it's up to HIM though. You can't make these two men change. All you CAN do is help YOURSELF now. I hope you do. You are worth it!

Thank you for all the advice and comments, it means a lot. I do realize I am part of the enabling and I'm more like my dad then I care to admit. I had been touring apartments pre-COVID, but eventually just stopped hoping that would ever be possible. I definitely need to get my own life back on track and start looking for my own place and life again.

One of the reasons I am scared to leave is worrying that my brother will escalate abuse if he thinks no one is watching, and I don't trust my dad to be honest about it (he downplays things). My family's barriers are all psychological.

I did have a good talk with my dad today. It was the first day he's been out on his own since all of this and he looked genuinely happy (despite my brother going nuts on him about it yesterday). He wants me to not worry about him, but it's tough. I talked to him again about moving to the second house. I'm skeptical on that front, but he did seem open to at least spending nights there.

I have talked to local senior services about the situation but again, its likely he would deny everything. If I could get him to attend therapy, he may be more receptive to listening to their advice.

First of all, your questions are difficult for anyone to answer. I have a bipolar disabled daughter and have lived with it for over 20 years. Be respectful to your Dad. Show him kindness and love. He may not want the help. But he needs it.

If your brother will not get the help that he needs - then let it go. You can't change it anyway. Try to separate yourself from him (if he doesn't want help). Try to stop the interaction between your brother and your Dad. Protect your Dad. Many people tried to tell us to be tough and others tried to tell me to be kind to the point of confusion. Neither was very helpful. They made me feel quilty about every choice I made. This is not helpful. "At the end of the day, all you can do is your best." Take care of yourself FIRST. You cannot control them or what they do or say. Your Dad needs help. Start there. He will not accept your help until he trust you to do it. Even then he may not. Sometimes all we can do is try and then let it go. I know that sounds hard. Because it is. It took me two (2) years to let go of my daughter that I could not help or change. Thankfully, she got the help that she needed and is living independently now with few problems.

I wish you the best and hope that above all else; you take care of YOU FIRST.,

Susanne

You have ZERO control over what your relatives do.

You have 100% control over what YOU do.

You need to move out.

You need to move on.

You can't care more about your dad's situation than he cares about it himself.

If you are interested, contact your local chapter of NAMI.

Otherwise, just move on with your life; therapy may be useful if you want to break these patterns.

Your brother sounds much like our family members with dementia in that reasoning with him is pointless. Your dad has likely figured that out, so he takes the abuse.

I'd suggest contacting your local department of mental health services and ask their advice on how to handle the situation. I'd also walk into the police department and ask the same question. Throw in the advice of an elder law attorney, too. (I hope you and Dad have all his legal paperwork -- will/trust, powers of attorney -- in place. If not, get it handled before doing anything else using the attorney above.)

If you aren't able to make yourself walk away, I think you need to make careful plans in order to ensure everyone's safety. Your brother is ill, and your dad is being abused.

Once you know what you're going to do, take Dad to the other house, tell your brother you and he have been exposed to Covid, then put your plan into effect.

How sad for your father and for you.

I don’t know why some parents get into the ‘don’t rock the boat’ mode instead of not tolerating abusive behavior. Are you afraid of rocking the boat?

Perhaps your dad is fearful or simply doesn’t know how to respond to your brother. Sometimes, people believe if they ignore the behavior, it will go away. That’s not always true, it won’t happen if a person is mentally ill.

I don’t see how you can convince your dad to stand up to your brother.

I do believe that most people can certainly recognize when someone’s behavior is abusive.

Somehow your dad grew tolerant to his situation.

I wonder if he feels powerless. Have you ever made any suggestions to dad on how you feel that he should react to your brother?

What do you think is the main reason why your dad is accepting abusive behavior from your brother?

Sounds like he tries to abuse you as well.

What would your brother do if you wouldn’t wipe down the groceries?

He doesn’t look at facts. Your brother acts impulsively.

I would feel horrible about your dad being in this situation but your brother has gotten away with it for so long that I don’t see his behavior changing.

The only thing that you can do is to report your brother to APS, move away or do both.

I am so sorry that you found yourself caught in the middle of it all. Tell us what do you fear will happen if you leave?

Best wishes to you and your family.

"...Dad says it's my house, but I am not allowed to live there..." Just because he says it's your house doesn't make it so. Your dad sounds like he has his own control issues. He controls you but doesn't control your brother. Do you see that?

Your family dynamics are dysfunctional. And you are enabling things to remains dysfunctional by dancing to the tune your father and brother play. You cannot change their relationship. You can only change your relationship with your father. It sounds like you are unhappy in your living arrangements, have sought therapy, and don't follow the advice of your therapists.

You say your dad is "a massive enabler" but you also are enabling both your dad and brother. The sooner you recognize that you can only control your choices and your behavior the sooner you may see the wisdom of therapists telling you "leave".