Dad and brother refuse to make any changes. Any advice?

debdaughter, your post is very hard to read when you don't use paragraphs. It all starts to blur and run on.

The OP has remained in the same area as she is can't leave due to a custody battle, she has been divorced 10 years, if she doesn't have one friend that could help her out, well that's on her. She's not the one tied to the house doing caregiving 24/7, I doubt the brother has any friends. How could he?

Look she lives in another part of the country, has her kids, I get that. But don't bash your brother and get an "attitude" when he views you as "company". Just that statement alone that he made sounds like he feels her visit will be more work for him.

She should have been going every year and let the father pay the airfare(it sounds like he is comfortable) and tell the brother "you rest, I'm here now".

Not wait until things are dire.

Irish you are in my opinion and it is only my opinion being way too harsh to this woman. We cannot know what hse has had to go through but it is fairly clear this was not an amicable divorce and may have left her financially in ruins as indicated by "work quite a bit to try to make ends meet "

She talks of our family minister whom she probably does or did know from when she lived in that area and whom she trrusted to do right by her family

Let's also be clear here the brither CHOSE to be a caregiver - no one HAS to. He even gave up his job to caregive which in the face of things was perhaps a little foolhardy but did he consult anyone before he did this? We simply dont know.

One thing we do know is that he is emotionally involved - too emotionally involved and has somehow lost the distance you need to keep if you are not to get sucked in to an even more difficult life and this, in part, will have come from nbeing a sole caregiver and I grant you that had his sister supported him for respite this could have perhaps been avoided...but I suspect not necessarily...." my brother gave up a career that he enjoyed and has been absorbed further and further into dad's controlling and narcissistic ways."

Now for someone to exert and be able to exert control you have to be able to be controlled and clearly despite his age the brother has not mastered the techinque of walking out of the room, cooling off then going back when HE is ready not his father.

If his father can afford help but wont have despite the unsanitary life he chooses to live then one has to ask WHY hasn't the son brought in the professionals?

He doesn't have to threaten to leave his father (incidentally threats of this sort qualify as emotional abuse). He does have to say Dad I can't do this without a break and I need a break. I am going to hire two caregivers and I am going away for a week or you are going to go to xxxx care home for a weeks holiday while I have a break. I guess I am saying that you have to be strong to be a caregiver and that means knowing when enough is too much and youneed that break.

Two years ago the OP obviously saw the problem and tried to intervene to get her bro a well deserved break - she may have several part time jobs which may well not be covered by conventional employment law. Her BIG mistake was to believe the brother when he said no caregiver could deal with him. odly enough however damned difficult they are to family it is quite rare for them to AS DIFFICULT to outsiders and the caregivers are very strict with them....they have to be sometimes.

Brother again missed an opportunity when his Dad was in hospital TWICE and if I was to be utterly heartless and I'm not but others might opine that he SHOULD have engaged someone to assess his father. He might think he is doing a really good job but he isn't because he is burnt out and wont accept it

If he refuses meds and he refuses counseling (shades of father I think) and he refuses to let her come out (actually he can't stop her) then she needs to see what is happening there

Does she feel guilty of course she does I dont think HURT is the right term although the OP used it I think she is anxious that there is something else going on and he is distancing himself from any help at all, thereby furthering his own isolation. That in turn is increasing her feelings of guilt so lets not prejudge for we are here to support when all is said and done. I always say lets walk a mile in their shoes first...xxx

Hmm... we are adding all sorts of information to the original post. The OP is gone apparently, so it's okay to talk, I think.

The OP never said the father was mean or narcissistic. She only said he was getting confused, wanted to stay in his home until he died, and didn't want anyone coming in. That is very common in old folks and it was what I meant when I said he was a difficult parent. I wasn't meaning narcissistic. (I do have to admit it takes some self-centeredness to allow your child to donate their life so you won't have to move. Sheesh! What kind of trade off is that?)

And second, we don't know how the brother feels. Maybe he was just venting to his sister. Maybe he doesn't like his sister. We don't know what is going on or even how bad the father is. All we know is that he needs to be able to depend on some respite time.

JudeAH53, you lose the argument when you play the "CHOSE" card, VERY FEW choose to be the sole caregiver.

Someone in the family when an elderly parent starts to need help has to step up to the plate and help, if you have halfway decent parents that is what you do.

Well the help needed becomes more and more, the adult child who was the one to offer helps than turns to a sibling and asks for some help.....than they hear.....wait for it ....WELL YOU CHOSE TO HELP....As if that means you and only you are the only one who can do anything

What a load of BS. That is one of BIGGEST EXCUSES given by the "do nothing" sibling.....bad choice of argument on your part.

Of course the brother is emotionally involved, this has been his whole world for at least the last 3 years. Where is the gratitude from the OP? Not one comment thanking the brother for taking care of not just the father, but the mother as well.

Maybe he doesn't like the sister, he would have good reason not to, it's all been on him.

I'm not being too harsh on this woman, I clearly said I understand she lives in another part of the country, and her children should come first. What I don't like is the lack of gratitude, annoyance that the brother is now very depressed(shouldn't have gotten to this point, talk about waiting too long), her nose being out of joint at being viewed as company(well that is what you are at this stage in the game). She should have been there at every break from work, if she couldn't afford the airfare get the father to pay for it, in reality he should if she was coming for a week or two to help.

Sorry, when I see the sole caregiver who has been carrying the load alone start to get bashed, I question the situation. Why the interest now? Where was she last year, or two years ago?

I know of another caregiving situation right now where one sister pulled the same stunt, "well you chose this".....LOL. She also criticizes her sister but offers no help, and to add to the mix she is annoyed the caregiver sister isn't paying rent to live in the mother's house.

It goes right over her head that a paidcaregiver came in and did what the sister does it would be at least 3 times the cost of any rent the sister would be paying.

The "you chose this" excuse is utter nonsense.

Jessie, the OP does describe her father as controlling and narcissistic, and says that her brother's been getting sucked into this, in isolation, for three years. Which just made me think oh woe! and get no further forward.

I sympathise with the brother's not wanting her to come and stay. I told my brother flat out I wasn't doing any catering - it's hard enough chasing your tail keeping yourself and your caree fed and watered, without having to worry about putting something better than cheese on toast on the dinner table. But there are house guests and house guests - the perfect types bring their own food and wash the kitchen floor. They are rare.

So if the OP should come back, my only suggestion would be to ask the brother directly what he would like her to do, and then hope that that would open up possibilities. But untangling victims from NPD webs is painful and difficult, as we all know.

Countrymouse, I agree about the houseguest sibling. The fact that the brother views the OP as "company"(ie. more work for the caregiver) is very telling.

I had a family friend who lived in another state upon hearing my brother was visiting say "promise me you will not cook for him or clean up after him"...I did my best not to, but I can't stand letting dirty dishes sit in a sink.

The one time he came in his words to "help" I had to ask him to do things like collect the mail, bring in the garbage can, etc. When dad had two back to back appts(our mother had just passed a few months prior) at the same medical facility, he said "have fun", when I inquired as to why he wasn't going he said "I didn't come down here to go to doctor's appts"....than why are you here? He said he was coming to "help". Thankfully my father overheard that and told him he was going....LOL. He got to see very briefly what we went through to get to an appt. Dad at that point was on oxygen and a wheelchair was needed.

Another time I was getting out of the shower and my father called out for something, my brother said "dad needs something" while he sat in a chair playing with his laptop(knowing I was in the shower), turns out dad needed help getting his shoes on.

He stayed 7 days and I swear the house breathed a sigh of relief when he left, he offered no real help, personally I think it was a fishing expedition, mom was gone, dad not doing too well. Better visit and survey the situation.

So I totally get how "company" isn't welcome in most cases.

You're absolutely right, OP should ask the brother directly what can I do. She has an air of authority about her, sorry you don't play that role when you have been out of the loop and uninvolved.

ok, sorry, Irish, I was pretty upset this morning when I wrote that besides in a hurry and if I knew of a way we could edit this - anybody know? - I would

better? I want to respond to brother not having any friends - I disagree - dad's grandson that he, yes, like Jessie, I somewhat agree - my dad was a good man but I do believe he had at least a touch of self-centeredness about him that, although he really thought grandson didn't really have a life, not sure it would have mattered if he had, think he really thought nothing of asking him to give it up for his, he just knew he needed help, which made grandson feel he needed to step up and do it because of all dad had done for him (long story) but also in all fairness dad also felt he was giving him a rent-free place to live - anyway he had lots of friends, from before, so did brother not have any before? if so, what would have happened to them?

and what if father wouldn't pay airfare - again, that same self-centeredness? - my dad never gave a thought to paying my expenses to go see him, as in never did

now, granted, I am married to a husband with a good job but still.... and, granted, when he was younger - which I think is key as well - and I was divorced and a single mom with a child and struggling - working quite a bit to make ends meet - he did help but he wasn't needing help - even if not financially - himself then, as in he was still more cognitively aware of it then like I really doubt that her dad is at this point or maybe that's the dire you're talking about but I doubt he has been for a while

and I agree with Jude about the whole minister thing, that either she probably knew him from when she lived there, if it's still the same one, which, frankly, I actually doubt, or, again, I feel she probably felt that dad felt more comfortable with him than he probably actually did with her; I think my dad would have and wish he would have because

I do feel that in getting grandson to give up his life so he didn't have to caused him to be absorbed in it in such a way that I, at least, didn't see a way of avoiding it; one reason I really didn't want to see it happen; it was really hard on him and much as I hated, as much because I knew dad didn't like it as anything, to see him move his girlfriend in with him, I really think he would have been much closer to the way frustratedsis's brother got but even so

why hadn't he brought in professionals - because of the fear that they would remove dad from the home and then where would he be? but he would threaten to leave dad as things with dad got to be more than they were when he first moved in - when all he had to do was just to live there but could still pretty much come and go as he pleased, at least as long as he was back by time dad went to bed but I am the one who would go when he needed a break, which I understand sister didn't do but I would also tell him he didn't have to continue to stay there with dad; if he didn't want to I'd do something else but that's not what he wanted either, supposedly since that's not what dad wanted, but was that really it either way - was that the real reason and, like Jess said, of course that's common in the elderly but would dad have really so minded had I done it and if so, then is that what I should have done or so then did that not make it, at that time, be his choice? if so then was it not his responsibility to tell dad he needed a break, especially if it was for more often than I felt I could go or was that my responsibility to go more often and if he couldn't bring himself to do that what does that say about his emotional involvement of dad being his whole world for, in his case, as well, just almost 3 yrs.? was I grateful - not sure, why did he do it actually? even if dad was asking him, since, in my case, he was talking to me somewhat differently - going back to irish's whole thing that he thinks that if sis had come herself and taken dad around to the AL's he would have gone - would he? what would dad have done had grandson not taken this on? and we've already discussed possible situations as to why maybe she didn't do more and why maybe she can now

and certainly without knowing this other situation there could be more there as well - as there was with this grandson's situation - like why, if he kept threatening to leave, didn't he

because would getting a(nother) paid caregiver to come have been the only other solution?

not saying he actually chose in the beginning but in both these situations did they not choose to continue?

I agree with Jude, though I know we don't know, that she may be trying to make ends meet, like I was, through a series of part time jobs that don't offer the FML for her to be able to do that and it's possible that brother doesn't have access to the finances to hire caregivers; however, still not convinced he doesn't have friends, like dad's grandson that, when I had another situation that, yes, just absolutely precluded me being able to go help out with dad, stepped up and helped. Yes, it was hard on dad but grandson did what he had to do and though it may not have been the best or what dad or I wanted, it all worked out ok so hard to believe brother couldn't have done something.

But I'm actually surprised the hospital didn't assess dad when he was in there anyway - I know they did my dad without anybody asking them to. They said then he needed to be placed; it was grandson who then didn't want it done and said he could do it but they did only agree to allow him to continue to try on a temporary basis while they sent in home health and a social worker to monitor, which he didn't like but while, again,

I was there so I do understand her going now.

I'm not sure guilty's the word, though, either, since she's pretty confident that she's been doing all she could do up to this point; I think she's just getting concerned about the situation now as it seems to be escalating so I'm still hoping that the reason we're not hearing from her is that she's on her way or even there by now.

debdaughter, thank you for using paragraphs, it's too hard to read the other way. I don't think there is a way to go back and edit once you post a comment.

I doubt the brother has any friends. It's almost impossible to have outside relationships when you're doing that kind of caregiving. You can't go out to lunch or out for the evening. Your world becomes caregiving. Going to their church(where the father fell) was probably the extent of any socialization. Other than that it is back to the house, going to dr appts, and going to the store for food and other items.

When you have to keep saying "no" to invites, the invites dry up. People stop asking when the answer is always that you can't leave dad. That's just how it is.

You have nothing to talk about, and don't want to talk about dad falling, dad soiling the bed, etc....and people don't want to hear about it either....LOL. Many full time caregivers only have the Internet and sites like this to turn to.

So many times the caregiver becomes isolated, remember he gave up his job. So not outside stimulation other than maybe church, but maybe that stopped as well after the father fell.

Look at ccflorida's comments, she is THRILLED she can finally go to lunch with a friend since her sister is coming.

I also didn't care for the OP's flippant attitude when she said "he thinks he could be facing charges if he just up and left", well the fact is that is true! An adult child who has is taking care of an elderly parent either in their home or your home, you are now responsible, you can't just say "I quit" and walk away.

In regards to hiring professional home help, not so easy, to find someone who is honest and reliable is some task. I know of one situation with a friend where they went through several people in regards to care of the mother. They had one woman who came in and they got rid of and she left a book and wanted to come back and the mother(who has Parkinsons) got frightened hearing she was coming back, they mailed the book to her....so not so easy.

I agree, the father should pay for the airfare and expenses if the OP comes to help.

As far as the minister goes, nothing wrong with involving him, but again she should have been there along with the brother for a united front.

It seems to me the OP took a "hands off" approach for too long and now wants a quick fix. It's not that easy. A yearly visit and giving the brother a break would have been better, the fact that he views her as "company" is telling.

I have a lot of empathy for the brother. Unless you have done hands on caregiving where it is just you and the elderly parent/parents people don't understand how hard it is. It's bad enough when you have wonderful parents, I can't imagine if you're dealing with one who is self centered.

"rent free" is BS. When you give up a job and a life and a home of your own, and you take care of someone all day and all night - you need to shower, eat, poop, sleep, just like your loved one does. You don't sleep through the night. If you were going to rent something, it wouldn't be THIS!

I, for one, can tell you that *I* didn't CHOSE the single caregiver lifestyle either. Oh, it started innocently enough & boy, oh boy, do I see NOW just how gullible I was!

It wasn't until I realized that Mom was having difficulty balancing her checkbook & (uncharacteristically) was late paying her credit card, that I suspected Mom was having "issues" but a quick drop into her eye doctor's office to pay a bill for her on my way through town sure proved it when the receptionist mentioned that Mom had seemed turned around & having trouble with directions to & from their office the last time she'd been in. First thing I did when I got home was to confiscate her keys & driver's license & hide all the extra key sets where she couldn't find them. Second thing I did was call my brother & told him what I had been told & that I had taken her keys & WE would have to drive her whenever she needed to go out. Yeah, I actually thought WE would. Turns out, no, *I* would. When it was time for her next doc appt, my brother's excuse for not taking her was, "Well, you're a nurse. You'll understand everything better than I would." AND I FELL FOR IT!

Non-medical appointments were always met with, "Well, you see, there's this big project at work right now & I just can't take time off" or "Gosh, the girlfriend & I made plans to go to the ____ (beach, cabin, friends' place, etc) that week/weekend", yada, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah. As time wore on, I was doing more & more for Mom, all the while trying to keep a small horse farm running & working a full-time job. He lived just 2.5 miles down the road & we hardly saw him. If he did come over, it just added to my stress. If he didn't fight with & yell at Mom at the top of his lungs the whole time, then he would say things to me like, "God, this place is filthy. How can you stand to live in a pig sty?" or "I arranged for the bug guy to spray in & around my house on your day off. I need you to come up to my house for a few hours to let him in & lock up when he's gone." Of course the place was cluttered! When I wasn't working, I was caring for Mom all by myself! When was I suppose to pick up the place?! And, thanks, I *had* a day off...until you "volunteered" me to do stuff for YOU! When are you going to get around to fixing the busted thermostat in my car so I have heat when the temps hit -25? Or fix the light fixture in the one room so I have light & don't have to pretend I'm Amish with a camping lantern? Or, how about having your derelict car towed out of my driveway? The car thermostat took 2.5 YEARS to get fixed, the light fixture was busted from July to February & the broken down old car rusted away in my driveway for 2 months shy of 3 YEARS!! I truly think the only reason either got rectified was because I was SO desperate that I took to shaming him on Facebook where all of his friends could read about it & I sent anniversary cards about the car to his office every month for 6 months! It's amazing how many embarrassing questions co-workers ask when you get monthly anniversary cards & you aren't even married!

I tried to get him to understand how stressed I was. Hell, not only had I been playing sole caregiver to Mom for the past 3 or 4 years, but I was running off to work ad a nurse every day & playing caregiver to everyone ELSE'S Mom & Dad, too!...and had been for 28 years! Hell, yes, I was burnt out!!

Whenever I tried to talk with him about the load I was carrying it was always, "You need to get rid of the horses" or "You need to re-home your dogs" or "You need to just put Mom in a home". He didn't want to hear that I can't legally place her in a facility if she's competent to refuse it. Never once was there an offer to stay with her some evening so I could go out or, better yet, take HER out so I could enjoy a quiet evening at home! And there CERTAINLY was never an offer to move her in with him for even a week or a month or two!

I love my brother but I resent the crap out of the fact that I'm 47, have no life of my own & any friends I had (notice I said HAD) walked away long ago because they didn't want to deal with an 84 yr old tagging along everywhere or the fact that I couldn't go out after 9 pm because Mom likes to go to bed at 9:30. I love to hike, take nature photos & trail ride on my horses. I went on ONE camp out/ride last year for 4 days in the Fall & ended up dropping everything, abandoning my friends & running home TWICE because my brother, despite promising to stay with her, left Mom alone so long she panicked & called me in tears. He knew she flips out being alone after dark but told her he wasn't coming home until 7pm (which was already after dark) because he wanted to get his hair cut. He never got back until well after 10pm!

I have had to quit my job to care for her. I have sold my farm back East because there was no way I could begin to afford that mortgage, utilities, food, etc on what she can afford to pay me as her caregiver. I had planned to move here to the Mid-West when I retired but made that 900 mile move 20 years early because it was the only place with a low enough cost of living to afford staying at home with her. I am STILL the only caregiver. That's never gonna change & I'm no longer gullible enough to think it will.

My brother was pissed off that I was moving so far away "because I'll probably never see Mom again before she dies" and "How can you break up our family like that? You should sell the horses, sell the farm & buy a 'regular' house outright. Then you can afford to stay. You're putting your horse hobby ahead of this family". If Mom was so important to you, why weren't you over here helping with her care? If family was so important, why weren't you offering to give me respite instead of asking me to do even more work for YOU? Why should *I* have to give up my horses, farm & dogs (everything that I love & keeps me sane) just to care for OUR Mom when you sacrifice nothing, do whatever you want & go wherever you want?

He claimed he was going to come out here "in May" to see my new farm, "make sure you two are doing ok" & spend time with Mom. Even asked me about the nearest airport. Yeah, it's nearly mid-June & he's made no moves to come. When I inquired? Oh, well, things are really busy at work right now. September will be better....or, maybe October. Yeah, September or October. I'll come then. Call me Doubting Olly, but I'll believe it when I see it.

His inquiries into Mom? Not "How's she doing?" or "Is she happy?". No. It's "Does she remember me or ask about me? I really think it would be better if she didn't remember me." Guess it's even easier to check out & be un-involved if Mom doesn't even recall that you exist.

I pay for EVERYTHING for Mom & myself out of the 2K she pays me PER MONTH to provide room, board, food, entertainment, do all the cooking, shopping, laundry, chauffeuring to appointments & purchase her meds & mine. After a recent doctor appt, her inhaler for her COPD was changed from one costing her $48/mo to one costing $385/mo. She doesn't have Medicare Part D & can't enroll until Oct or November. Since her meds are technically coming out of my pay, I asked if my bro would contribute a little $$ every month towards the mew inhaler Rx. Je was pissed. His exact response was, "I thought moving out there was going to save money? And now you want me to pay every month to support her?" Yeah, because you know I'm not spending any of my own money caring for her...sarcasm fully intended.

So, yeah, got to agree with the OP's bro on this one....he'd be company. And, if OP's bro is anything like me, I think it's probably a safe bet that he holds at least some measure of resentment that his life has been consumed with caregiving while the sibling has gotten off scott free....regardless of the reason, whether it be custody issues, job issues or, like my bro, just being completely removed, oblivious & checked out from any responsibility.

OK OK I hands up to being a Brit and that things are perhaps very different this side of the pond BUT: 1 question do you really WANT to care for your parent? That's not an emotive question it is a straight forward question. Not a question with them present, but a question that is just there for you alone to answer. It isn't a do you think you ought to or does your parent want you to (or siblings who don't want to get their hands dirty for that matter)or what would the neighbours think it is a for you question

And that is the piece of the jigsaw that seems to be missing here. It's also a question that is rarely if ever asked and by the time it is ...it is too late. Or is it. You don't have to look after your parent - nobody is going to say YOU MUST, nobody is going to tell you to give up your job to look after them.

What should happen (but rarely does) is that a proper assessment should be made of the needs of the parent AND the pressures that will be placed on the caregiver AND the caregiver's mental and physical and emotional capacity to deal with those pressures and what is more that should be ongoing not on day one when parent is not too bad but every 3-6 months as the disease progresses (in Mums case vascular and alzheimers).

I AM a 168 hour a week caregiver to a very demanding mother and I DONT get respite unless we pay for it and mother flatly refuses to do that. That doesn't mean I don't get respite though. I have to say I didn't CHOOSE to be a caregiver ... it was a promise I made my father on his deathbed and one that I will not break for my own personal reasons UNLESS my mother becomes so ill that she needs to be in medical care that I cannot manage or UNLESS I become ill and cannot manage her. When that time comes it will be the hardest decision I will make but it is one I know I will have to make sensibly - for her and for me

HOWEVER every year I recognise that I need and must have a break and the time is due about now - I know I am sliding. I am my mum's POA for finances and health so I am also aware that you may have a different set of names for those, if I CHOSE to I could force the issue but I don't

We then get into a non negotiable pathway. Mum I need a break - you've only just had one.... that's the way it always starts. Well she is right ...we have usually just come back from our holiday together which is NOT a break for me.... and because I have to start 3 months in advance. She will not know that, at this point, I have already booked her into respite through the social workers (I don't know your name for this process) if I don't do this then it gets booked up and I couldn't have the time and if things became difficult or changed I could cancel later.

Then we go through a very difficult period of her being really opposed to me having a break. So I give her options. She can either have a full time live in carer for a week at £xxxx or she can go to into respite care where she will be able to participate in the activities etc with the other older people for a week at £xxx. I won't leave you, I won't leave you unattended and I will come back refreshed to take care of you and tell you about the places I have been to and I will take photos so we can talk about when you went there with Dad etc etc (Mum does accept she can't fly and I do take her on holiday in UK twice a year so she is not bereft of vacations in that respect)

I think therefore that when you CHOOSE to take up the strain of being a caregiver you MUST recognise that alongside that goes a duty to say NO MORE...I need and MUST have a break. I am starting to slide and that is not good. If you DONT recognise that stage OR you dont have someone to take the reins and give you respite then in all honesty? you shouldn't be a caregiver, however hard that may be for you. It's all about that first choice, that first decision.

In my case I had 6 weeks of carers coming in and I saw what they did and wasn't impressed and I knew I could do a better job. I still had to weigh up the facts, I still had to consider the poverty I would be placing myself in, I still had to fight to stop quite frankly uncaring carers coming in that I had no control over. Yes there are times when I would gladly walk away but I did CHOOSE to honour my promise.

OK I need to add something here .. when you make your decision to become a caregiver don't believe siblings - promises of help simply aren't worth the ether they were made on. My dearest friend has 3 siblings - all of whom live quite close and therefore quite capable of offering to care for her Mum one day a week (she only asked for them to take turns 1 Saturday a month - not a lot) They of course said yes and did do for about 2 months and then came the inevitable excuses. Once they realised this wasn't a sit and chat while someone else did everything or their partners got fed up at not having them around for one day a months ffs.

But my friend had considered this. When she chose to care she went to a solicitor (lawyer/attorney? in US). She knew in her heart (because she knew her siblings well) that there would come a time when they would not fulfil the things they committed to and she was simply not prepared to go without a day off now and then so she drew up a contract that said if they could not come they had to pay for a carer of her choosing (and yes Irish that's a bloody difficult thing to find I agree).

While initially they were quite happy to sign the contract they actually got together and decided they didn't want to pay. She went straight to the courts and forced payment from them.

Yes it cost her initially but she got that back and then some.

Yes it was stressful for her initially but not now.

Yes it was yet another hoop to jump through and god knows we jump through enough of those, but she had the foresight and strength of character to do that and risk losing the siblings, which she has but they weren't there for her so no real loss, but she still gets her respite.

I hate the way that caregivers are made to run 10 miles to everyone else's 1 just to get the basics and that's why I always say you have to be really strong to be a caregiver - it simply isn't for everyone and anyone who says it is needs to try it for themselves some-when and see how they get on after a year on their own.

PLEASE PLEASE don't think you HAVE to become a caregiver - you are giving up almost your entire life to someone else when you take on a sole caring role and it is not easy. You are not financially responsible for them either but as always you do have to live with the consequences of your decisions which for some people forces them to 'choose' ,and I use that term loosely in this instance, to opt for doing the caring themselves

OzarkOlly, I think your comments and examples hit the nail on the head. You may also find when your mother passes you will have no contact or very limited contact with your brother. That often happens, because in addition to the years of no help, once the last parent is gone the "do nothing" sibling now has time to show and is concerned about the house, posessions,and any bank accounts.

That behavior on top of the "hands off, you chose this" attitude is enough to sever ties. I mean who wants contact with a person who should have been there to help and wasn't. If a friend treated you like this you wouldn't want to continue the friendship.

Hopefully your mother has a will/trust and most of it goes to you. I believe that is fair when the one adult child gives up their livelihood and life.

JudeAH53, first off I applaud you for what you're doing.

But you see no one has to do anything in life that involves helping others.

You see a child lost and crying, you don't have to stop and ask "where is your mommy, are you lost?"....you can keep going.

You see an old man fall and hit the ground in the parking lot of a store, you don't have to run over and help, you can keep going.

So you see that "no one has to do anything" argument falls flat. If you have a conscious and a heart, you help.

Do you say to your 30 year old child who gets laid off(made redundant on your side of the pond) and is not able to pay their rent, "sorry I only had to support you until 18, you're on your own", when you have a room for them in your house? Not if you're a decent person.

Yes, you're right no one has to do anything, but if you like laying your head on your pillow at night, and you have any humanity in you, than you help the people who helped you.

I couldn't agree more Irish on the conscience issue but I would rather see my mother in a home than, for example, my brother to care for her. a) he would be incapable b) he isn't trustworthy which are two damned good reasons without adding a million more. In fact for me to let my brother care for her would be abuse in itself because I know stuff that is not for on here and I KNOW mum would NOT be safe with him so I wouldn't entrust her care to him. (That... and he has an injunction which prevents that anyway!)

My point is that if you really cannot mentally or physically cope with caring and you are honest and true to yourself and everyone else about it, then you are actually doing the elder a favour because care done by someone who physically feels or is sick when dealing with vomit, sputum, diarrhoea, incontinence etc let alone intimate bathing and incumbent difficulties associated with said issues like administering intra vaginal or anal creams/pessaries/suppositories is not care at all. Let's not even include endless rounds of medical visits, phone calls, wasted time, dealing with tantrum, handling dopey idiots who park in disabled bays, managing records: medical /financial /changes in behaviour/bowel motions etc.

It simply is not an anyone can do it type of job. I know it may feel as though we were 'volunteered' but we still had to say yes I will do that. I know plenty of people with a fantastic heart and a good conscience who have said look I cannot do right by mum in terms of care. I will however look for the best carers I can find, I will monitor them to make sure they do their job and that mum is happy and safe. now I know you may well disagree but I think of that as care too. Caring enough to make sure it is done well even if it is not them who do the hands on stuff

It is more caring to want your parent to be safe and to be looked after, and to be visited, to have their needs attended and to make sure that happens than to enter into care knowing this is not something you are doing willingly. I'd like to believe that everyone has the capacity to care and I actually do think that but it is NOT in everyone's wherewithal to enact that capacity and those who choose not to and are honest about it do have the right to say no and that is fine ....as long as they ensure that good care is provided and as long as they remain part of their parent's lives as they always have.

I think the bigger problem with care comes when the caregiver doesn't say I cannot do this I don't know how to, I need something I don't have and don't know how to get it, I cannot stay awake 24/7 to meet needs, I am burnt out, I need a break , the house isn't suitable for the type of care that is needed now, I am having a breakdown for then we are potentially moving into an arena of lack of care.

Irish I can see you are absolutely intense about this as am I - where we differ is that I just cannot see it as something that is given with love to a parent for the care they gave you (or indeed didn't give you) as a child.

You see I CHOSE to have children and I love them unconditionally - I have never said nor will I ever say when you grow up you're to give up everything to look after me. It sure as hell is not my intention to allow my children to look after me. Moreover I don't want them to look after me and have already declared that while I am sane (who am I kidding I never was sane). I HAVE said to them make sure I am safe and that my wishes are adhered to regarding my advanced directive.

They know I don't want them giving up their lives to do something that doesn't come naturally to them.

I had an eye opening thought about one of my brothers today. This brother's family is totally devoted to God and their church. Their oldest son announced they were expecting their first baby today. The announcement was all couched in God's blessing for good wife and good husband and being blessed with a gift. And I thought about how sheltered their lives have been. My brother and his family have never really faced any hardships. They keep their lives totally separate from the hardships of the world. They may go out with their church and help the needy, but we don't really become the needy by simply helping them. It is a distant thing, even if we're talking face to face.

Being so sheltered, I really don't know if he was equipped to watch his father die, or if he is equipped to watch his mother die. When my father died, my brother's only real words were that maybe he was saved. And I wondered if he had cut him so out of his life because my father wasn't saved enough for him to associate with. It could be. They have separated themselves from others that they consider "of the world." What I wonder is if this really means that it is too stressful for them to handle.

JudeAH53, my brother was the same way. He has a very short fuse in addition to being self absorbed to the max. He never offered to help(other than his last visit to help but had to be asked to do the simplest of chores like collecting the mail), but you couldn't have left him alone with dad.

I agree with what you're saying, if I knew than what I know now comes to mind. The issue with caregiving is starts off usually with part time helping, than more help is needed, the other sibling/siblings get out of it with "well you chose this" excuse.....NO.....the adult child who has the most conscious stepped up to the plate, that doesn't mean they alone are responsible. But in many cases that is what happens.

Jessiebell, are you in the south? Sorry, those devoted to their church types are the worst. They're big phonies.

They're "good Christians" only to those who share their narrow beliefs and no one else.

I have, well had a very weak stomach. Yet I learned to deal with it. So I don't buy that excuse, it's just like when someone says "Oh I don't like funerals" or "I don't like hospitals".....well who the hell does.

But you put on your big boy/girl pants and you deal.

Who the h*ll is equipped to watch a loved one die? No one is.

Yes, that one gets right up my nose, too, Irishboy. When I heard "I can't hospitals" or "poor so-and-so finds it so depressing to see your mother in that state" I was torn between responding with extreme sarcasm or a quick slap in the mouth. Well honestly! - what are you supposed to say - "Really? Gosh, 'cos I find it a barrel of laughs. All day every day. The comedy never stops - it's particularly amusing at three in the morning I always think etc etc etc."

Mind you, the buggers were chirpy enough at the funeral. It must have been a weight off their minds, poor dears.

Sorry, way off topic and getting cross again.

irishboy, I still disagree about the brother not having any friend's; dad's grandson still had plenty; he/they may not have gone out but they sure came over to the extent I certainly wouldn't say his world revolved around caregiving; no, it was more like his world revolved more around his friends. And I don't see where her dad fell at church but anyway mine didn't; his falls were at home but he wouldn't even go to church with my dad, which is about all he asked him to do but the one thing he wouldn't do; he did start taking him and picking him up but I'm not even sure he took him in, not sure what you think about who should have been doing that, him or somebody there but certainly I got the talk like Ozark did re her mom about how he was getting turned around there and confused; guess at least he was doing that because he was still driving himself but, oh well, didn't matter much longer after anyway because he soon got to the point of not being able to go himself anyway so there wasn't even that for either one of them, but more dad; like said, grandson was getting plenty of socialization; no, it was dad who wasn't, since he was the one who'd been getting "invites" and turning them down; he was already much older than the ones doing the inviting, since all the ones his age were pretty much already gone but even the one who was was in better health; true, maybe nobody realized just in how bad health dad was, since he'd always been, seemingly at least, in such good but still why couldn't they just come see him, like grandson's friends didn't seem to mind doing; maybe it's because they wouldn't have anything to talk about since dad couldn't really carry on a conversation anymore but don't think it would have hurt them to just listen to him for a while, which grandson couldn't even do; dad thought he would keep him company but, no, he was too busy having company. I'm not even entirely sure he gave up his "job", in that sense; think a lot of it was being carried on by this company, but either way, he certainly wasn't the one isolated; that would be dad, especially after he couldn't go to church anymore. But also, true enough, dad did have a housekeeper coming for a couple hours every day, giving grandson that time to go have lunch with said friends.

I do agree; not sure where sis is coming from in thinking that brother possibly couldn't be held liable if he left and something happened to dad; if that were the case why does she seem so concerned - twice when something did happen to dad and he wound up in the hospital, this one doctor both times almost did report him.

And I do understand about hiring reliable help; my uncles went through that with my grandmother, not sure what would have done had grandson not done it for dad.

But not a matter of agreeing, at least not with me, about dad paying for sis to come; you brought that up; I don't think he would do it; like said, my dad never did.

And almost for the same reason, I still disagree about her being involved with minister re the AL; I think dad would have seen that, especially if it was both of them, as them ganging up on him to force it on him, think far better to stay out of that, at least as far as up front, and let minister handle that one, although realize didn't work, still don't think it would have worked any better and probably worse.

Wanting a quick fix, I somewhat agree think that's what she's thinking but then again think it could be done, in that sense, except that I still don't think we know what legal authority she has to do it. And we still don't know her situation, still hoping not hearing from her because she's there and I still went more than that in my situation.

ccflorida, thank you for your "rentfree" comment but do want to ask; do you think that still applies if you're getting paid? like Ozark says she is

CM oh don't you just want to tell it like it is and don't we all keep our mouths shut just to keep the peace? Still house hunting here and let me tell you that is a real extra job. Especially now mum is wanting to SEE every house. the estate agents (realtors) have been amazing - they allot 3 times their usual slot to accommodate us and it does take all of that. Last week I saw three houses in about 2 hours today WE saw 2 houses (well bungalows) and it took 7 hours .. then she wanted to go for lunch (actually she wanted to go to the 'nice' toilets at the garden centre) so off we trot for lunch in between seeing bungalows so 10.30 for the first one 2.30 for the second one. Then she wanted to go and see my daughter who was fortuitously at work. Grumpy, she then wanted to go and see her old house (make that houses as we did a tour of her whole blinking life. Then she forgot she wanted something from the shops....It was a surprise...OKaaay You'll like it she said hmmm maybe. So I drove about 7 miles across town to the shop she wanted to go to and what did she say? Why have we come here? Totally forgotten and nothing would jolt the old brain cells back to remembering. So back across town now rush hour and home at 5:45. Then tonight she remembered...so I said what was it - I wanted to get you some wet wipes - Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh they sell those about 1 minute from where we live

Ozark, in a way that's the situation I'm dealing with; dad's grandson didn't really "choose" to be his caregiver either, in that sense, and he somewhat felt gullible too, at least as I would tell him, after he would tell me how he felt that, yes, like cc brought up, that dad actually thought he was doing him a favor by giving him a rent free place to live when, yes, that's not what he was renting, but beyond that, dad didn't understand how he was even renting because he didn't see how he was paying it and he wouldn't tell him, so....

balancing a checkbook; dad probably hadn't done that in a long time but it hadn't really mattered, since he spent so little it was never a problem and definitely no credit cards; wouldn't have them but I guess in a way his issue was over his lawn mower, I guess, in a way, the one last thing he was really doing; it was having trouble; yea, guess so, it was old as the hills and cheap as could be because, as he said when he bought it, he still expected it to outlast him - well, it wasn't that old, just old for as cheap as it was; he'd bought it about 8 yrs. before but he was still here but it was falling apart; he probably shouldn't have still been mowing but it was probably what was keeping him here and from the way things went really does seem that way; anyway when he was at the shop seeing about it - they told me later when I called to see about the whole situation about it - he seemed like your mom, just turned around. Now maybe I should have done the same thing you did but I didn't live there or maybe I would have and honestly I cannot remember at this point if mom was still here or not - would make a difference in how old that mower was, but anyway, if so, she wanted to move down here with me anyway, so maybe should have pressed that issue more then but at the time he wouldn't hear of it and at the time I couldn't figure out a way to get it done; like somebody else said somewhere, I had no POA; he hadn't been declared incompetent though maybe he could have been at that point but had checked into and wasn't what I'd been told, so....should grandson have started at that point; well, I didn't want to be the one to put that on him, still felt it should be my responsibility though would have been nice if he'd been willing, though possibly he was still working at that point, so things just rocked on then mom passed away and not sure what happened but it wasn't happening before but he had the fall and then the fire that led to something needing to be done, which led to him wanting grandson to come but not telling him anything about it being a favor to him just that he needed him, putting the guilt trip on him. But at first it was just to be there at night but then after he wound up in the hospital it was more so at first he was still trying to keep what he was doing going as well but that became so stressful he was yelling at dad - according to the housekeeper who kept an ear and an eye out for me for how things were going - or tell me how filthy dad's house was - so...both of them there and they're telling me? but it was a bug issue so I/we/me and hub finally agreed to have bug guy come but it was more than just spray; had to have a big clean-out, which was fine with him till it came time to actually do it then he didn't want it done but by then did it anyway; at least it did take care of it but had to get dad out of the house while it was actually being done, after I'd gotten the house ready for it. He finally started getting the pay I'd been working on so he was finally able to let go of some of what he'd been doing, which did help some, except that just about that time is when dad wound up in the hospital, which did end up meaning more work for him but also he had moved his girlfriend in with her German Shepherd, so it wasn't all dad but I guess that helped him and actually became comfort to dad as well but the hospital said he really needed to be in a nursing home and wanted me to get guardianship of him but grandson is the one who, by then, didn't want it done; not entirely sure why at that point. But, again, since he didn't, I went up and stayed with dad, which he didn't seem to want but he did take advantage (in a good way, I mean) of it to get out and away.

I'm not sure what's a good age; he's 10 yrs. younger and resented it and I understand what you're saying about your lack of friends or maybe I don't because I don't understand why they're not like grandson's were; they just kept coming around; they didn't walk away, now, granted, they didn't try to take him anywhere, they just came around there; he even went on a vacation with his girlfriend while I did go stay with dad; not sure exactly what he did when I wasn't there; would still be somewhat concerned but know he'd stay out late when I was when he was there but guess he expected that he could then but dad didn't understand that; he got used to him being there at a certain time but guess that shouldn't matter; he needed a break; he would still try to call him, though, if I didn't manage to keep him from it so do wonder if was doing the same thing when not around but it was more a matter of him arranging things to be done when I was there and he wasn't that I didn't have a clue about, like trying to change cable or internet, etc., when didn't turn out to be as simple as he thought, like was with a lot of things, that would end up having to call him, which would upset him because he was supposed to be on break; well, then don't schedule this stuff for when you're gone and I know he left him at the hospital by himself once when he shouldn't have because they called me; now what was I supposed to do? run up there, which I have done and would have that time if I'd really needed to but they got it handled but pretty much after that seems like I ended up going - he was getting blood and had pulled his iv out. He finally started getting paid more so gave up everything he was doing before and, in his mind, gave up everything he had, which thinking about where he lived but he had bought a fair amount of stuff that he had ended up selling even though it was all paid for but because apparently either he gave up more of what he'd been doing or it just wasn't doing enough for what he was getting paid; apparently he'd been doing quite well, since he'd been paying his bills and buying all that stuff. He'd been so glad to have finally gotten where he was and he had not wanted to move in with dad and give it all up; at least dad's place was paid for. But the thing is by then I had dad's POA and could have done something different.

He just didn't like it that I had move so far away from them to begin with but he's the one who moved back closer to them. He thought I should as well. And especially didn't like me having more children than him. That I should have only had him. So that I could go help take care of dad, if, like you saying about your dad, he was that important to me, but what he didn't know because dad wouldn't tell him, was that he wanted to move down here closer to me if it weren't that he'd moved up there. He didn't have a family - or did he, in that sense, did he have somewhat the situation that sis has, he has a daughter up there that he has every other weekend visitation with, so did that keep him from moving back down here? Why did it have to be for me to move up there - oh, yea, he didn't know dad wanted to move down here - or maybe he didn't really "want" to, though I really think he did - or was it just that he was willing but that it was really grandson who wasn't.

He did bring him down for Christmas the year mom died, which they rarely came down then, in the winter, thinking about the bad ones, so they missed all the good ones, but wouldn't you know that that one had to be the worst one we'd had in 40 yrs. And then the next year was the fall and the fire - not really sure where going with all this other than trying to figure out the - what - right and wrong - who's on first - who's where in all of this - what are we all supposed to do? but gotta run

The hateful hostility here would be enough to drive anyone away. I get that you are burnt out, but the wars start with resentment and hostility.

No wonder you get no help. You probably disagree with every "suggestion your siblings make and refuse to meet in the middle. You judge from your bench and they from theirs.

You have a no holds barred opinion and by golly your siblings must see it your way or they pay. Mostly by being cut out of wills or the "right" to a single memento...or interaction with parent?

You see nothing but greed in caring siblings who choose to not agree with your "we do it in person or we dont care" agenda. Oh, and "we" do it MY way!

Sorry, that isn't caring without selfish motives..for what is best for all concerned parties, that is caring and feeling entitled to what? Glory in heaven, the favored child status, mom and Dads house, land,money because You the caregiver by FAULT is entitled?

You know what happens as much as the "johnny come lately greedy siblings? The "I live with mom and dad and so to hell with the rest of the family input, it is mine" sibling.

Feeling entitled to exclusivity, isolating parent, using parental resources to support self, withholding care, medical evaluations, etc is VERY abusive.

What we are already in serious neglect of in this country is dialog, resources and guidance of elder care legal, medical and practical use info.

I have cared for four children of my own for over 37 years, and can honestly say, to expect ANY parent to up and leave the state and leave ANY minor child, alone especially in a divorce situation could COST them that child.

To leave a teen, legal or not has its own brand of issues and most parents I know would not do this long term. While sime may be legal afults...the issues with being a parent iften prevent any long term "leaving. Children under 18 often have school and jobs that only a parent can drive them to and yes many parents especially a single parent cannot afford to buy or maintain a second car.

Hello, many exes are bitches or bastards in these cases...and some never divorced spouses are NOT IN THE LEAST SUPPORTIVE OF SHARING THEIR SPOUSE TO ELDER CARE!

My brother chastized me for caring virtually everday in seeing my 16 year old in high school and college and with a job daughter got where she needed to be by my being there, as "she is not a child", while he failed to see the irony that he did not work, wasnt married, had no children and lived rent free off our mom and Dad virtually all his life!

You people are wonderful in your intent and responsible care, however many are just overgrown babies not up to the task but too immature or greedy to share the CARE and the decision makibg and the "stuff"left when parents pass.

Hey, don't lump us all! I've also been surprised at the vehemence of this thread. But it has let me know how different families are. My brothers won't show up after the funeral wanting anything. One of them is the executor, so I do hope he'll execute the will promptly. I know them well enough to know they won't care if there is any money or items.

You are so right about not leaving teenagers alone for too long. That is a recipe for trouble. Teenagers can do crazy things with all the changes going on in their bodies and minds. I've heard some people say they wish they could lock theirs away from the world until they turn 25. I can understand.

And I do enjoy the free rent of living with my mother. She also pays the power and gas and buys about 3/4 of the food. I thank her very much for that, since it lets me keep some money for my own retirement. The free rent and food is probably worth about $1K a month, so my mother does help me a lot. I haven't had to tap into retirement savings nearly as often. I am going to have to let her know I appreciate that. I don't remember ever having told her. I may have to tell her often, since she has dementia and may not remember. :)

Really, we have to stand back and see all the siblings' lives. I came here because it made the most sense. My marriage had broken up and I work from home. It made sense for me to come here to stay with Mom & Dad, who would not leave their home or let anyone come in. My brothers had jobs and families that made it next to impossible to take on roles as caregivers. In their cases, placement in a facility would have been the only option that made sense.

My local brother would probably help if I asked. I've never asked and that is not his fault. I have asked him to call Mom as much as he can. He's rather sporadic there, but that is between him and her. I don't try to police the relationship, since I know we aren't a close family.

Jude...it really is very nice that you say you won't ever ask your children to give up their lives to take care of you, BUT you're saying this at a time before that occurs. It's a very easy thing to say when you're not faced with having to leave your home, completely change your routines & eat foods that you normally wouldn't eat or aren't prepared the way you like. My mother said all of those things as well! Now that she needs help...or better yet, assisted living....and she's faced with leaving her home, her pets, her routines, etc, she refuses to do it, she refuses to let any in-home helpers in the door & wants no one but me to help care for her. So, while it's a nice sentiment...and one I sincerely hope that you can keep....from my experience, I wouldn't 100% count on not feeling differently when the Depends hits the fan.

Nothingspecial....I agree with JessieBelle, don't lump me into your post. First of all, I never once said anything "vehemently hateful" to the OP or anyone who has commented. I simply made a few suggestions from a caregiver's viewpoint on how she may make her brother happier with her visit. Yes, my subsequent post did make the comment that I would consider my sibling company and, at the risk of being considered "hateful", I really think the OP was being a tad overly sensitive about her brother's use of the word "company". If he's as exhausted as I get...and probably everyone here...I highly doubt he was really thinking about his choice of words & how the OP might perceive them. Perhaps the reason she reacted the way she did is due to some buried guilt that her situation with her kids, etc has prevented her from being there for her Dad AND her brother. We don't know, she's left the building & perhaps SHE doesn't even really know why she is as hirt by it as she is.

And don't you even DARE to make the presumption that my resenment of my sibling is what has "run him off" & that I "disagree with every suggestion they make & refuse to meet in the middle". I did not start out resenting my brother. In fact, I cared for my mother while working full-time & running my farm for quite a few years without having feelings of resentment. The feelings of resentment grew over time when it was obvious that I was drowning, asked repeatedly for help from my brother and, despite many, many promises rarely received any...and when I did I was made to know what an imposition & bother it was. If Mom & I needed something he was never available. For anyone else, he'd drop what he was doing & go above & beyond. The resenment I carry for him is 100% his doing & I will NEVER allow someone to assign that blame to me!

Ozark Olly I havent just said it I have an advanced directive that stipulates it is not to happen. my god the very thought of that is horrific. I pray that euthenasia becomes legal soon for that would be my preferred route, failing that I might just have to pay someone to take me to Switzerland where it is legal.

When anything happens to Mum I am putting the house in trust so it cant be touched and I am not leaving anything to the state. I feel (rightly or wrongly) that I have saved them a lot of money over the years - its payback time!

nothing special, first, I'm assuming you're talking about me in leaving a teen alone so let me clarify, my husband, his dad was here the whole time; it's just that he went to work, so teen was left here during the day by himself and I'm well aware of what you're talking about and know of others who both parents went off and left their teen alone all the time with consequences ensuing but that wasn't quite our case so for the most part things went pretty well and not sure what long term means to you but I had no one else - I have no siblings so what was I to do except, well, I guess maybe I should have taken him with me but that's another issue or maybe I should have insisted they come down here but could I make them? no....guess they could have just gone to a facility....

grandson was the only one and he was working at that time; now later, with mom, no....not married, no children full-time and the thing I haven't mentioned is all the living off my mom and dad he'd done!

but yet when he was put in that position of taking care of dad he sure didn't want me continuing to make any decisions even though he'd had nothing to do with anything when he started; therefore had no idea of the situation.

but I'm executor, Jessie,

and I will say, though not really sure this happened while I was gone, but possibly because we had a tornado right before I got back; he wasn't old enough to drive but he knew how and we did have a vehicle here at that point so he did take it - and I would have dared anybody to have had a problem with it, though I suppose I might have for having left him, but anyway - to go to a friend's house that was safer than him getting underneath ours, which is what he did to begin with then got scared the house might fall on him and kill him and there's more to it than that that, true enough, not sure I knew about then, but also let me say he did have a brother here as well to look out after him, who had a different work schedule than dad that he could go to or rather suppose brother could come get him

but, Jess, I am so glad you hear you actually say you actually do enjoy the free rent of living with your mom; I've never heard anybody say that; if anything, say it's not worth it - really? even grandson would say it, even though he would talk about how stressful it was having to try to come up with it every month. And dad was also paying all the utilities and at least all the food, if it was acceptable to grandson, which it wasn't but that was on him, not dad; he would have. Not sure he ever really thought about appreciating it, though, even though it meant he could keep all the money he was also getting paid to take care of dad for; maybe he just thought, as I've gotten the idea, that he deserved it all for doing it, instead of seeing it as helping him as well, like dad was looking at it. He would have had to tell him over and over as well, since dad had dementia, as well, which is why he thought he deserved; he had a hard time with that having to tell him stuff over and over.

But, really, in his case, he resented me before all this ever started, unlike Ozark. really - in dad's mind it made the most sense, as well, for grandson to be the one, since he wasn't married and he wasn't working, so how was he coming up with rent money every month? I really don't know what I would have done had he not done it.

I'm not sure really what dad actually wanted at that point.

But do know grandson did get exhausted. But I wasn't going to feel guilty over it. He would hear of doing nothing different, except, maybe, getting some respite, though he wasn't really wanting to do that, because he did want that "favored child status" nothing special's talking about; he wanted to be their child and was jealous of me that I was and he wasn't - and he did want their house and all their money as well; and he did want me cut out of dad's will and for me not to have anything of theirs either and even though he wanted me when he found dad collapsed not sure he wanted me coming and having anything to do with dad because, yes, when dad wanted him coming and being the one taking care of him he did indeed feel entitled to it all then because of that. He did have that attitude of once he started living with dad, he was the only one to have any input into his care and I began to see him isolating dad and yes, he began to use dad's money for things for himself - yes, even though he was getting paid to take care of dad - now withholding care can get somewhat nebulous but he certainly wasn't doing what dad had wanted him to move in with him to do, although I do have to say he was still taking him to the doctor, although I do wonder if it was only because, in his case, he was under the VA and if he hadn't he would have been questioned on it but some of the above is why I definitely went when he was taken to the hospital where I had input into what happened there and the way he handled things at that point with me there they came very close to being concerned about him being abusive to him and not wanting to let him go back home with him.

He had to have a meeting with the hospital social worker and convince her before they would and then it was only on a trial basis. Looking back now and based on what his hospital doctor said on his last admission I don't understand why hospice or palliative care wasn't called in then and had I known they could have been I think I would have asked for it; we/he, I believe, could have used that resource, although, again, I'm not sure he would have actually wanted to have them coming in. Maybe I should have gone ahead and gone along with them wanting me to get guardianship of dad but then they should have handled the way they got his hospital doctor to say he needed it better; they really botched that one. I also think once they decided to let him go home with him they should have provided more practical instructions on how to handle the situation they were concerned about, something that I believe hospice or palliative care would have done, at least it was something they were more concerned about when it was done at his last admission.

Jude, when you say you have an advanced directive - regarding your children not taking care of you - what does that mean? are you talking about financially, thinking putting your house in trust to take care of you but, no, that's not usually what that means, is it? how do you plan on working this out, that the state won't be getting involved either - we did save them as well but only because we used federal VA funds

@surprise. Why on earth would even a moment think that one has a choice as to whether or not an "elder" relative could remain at the hospital and be admitted no less. Certainly a neuro or psych eval would be manna from heaven these days when the E.R. staff is much more likely to send home the patient in an ambulance the duplicate of that which brought them. Ask for admission and a full work up would I am certain be met with stunned silence. During the past two months my stepfather was discharged from two very different hospitals, both in nearby Jacksonville, one of which was the estimable (?) Mayo Clinic. Each time the discharge was put through very late on a Friday afternoon after what used to be called "observation" and some IV fluids, as I was told the tests he needed (one of which a CT Scan of his lung, which an Admissions X-ray had shown an ominous looking nodule. I was told by an intern that the supervisor had overruled doing the scan while in hospital. That and the other tests would have to be ordered on an out-patient basis by his Primary Care Doctor, but then for some reason he put them off for another two months time. Clutching so-called discharge papers he came out just as sick if not sicker than when he went in. He definitely weighed a lot less. I'm sorry I really this is off topic but I felt it had to be said. Maybe the folks at your local hospital have their hands tied. Maybe it's the rationing of care we know is coming. You know, when only the wealthy will get good and true health care. I've seen it in other ways too, just as my own husband has been the victim twice of very major mistakes in hospital. My advice is to stay well everyone!

French, I had actually forgotten about the falling; of course I'm not sure he's going to the ER with all of them - or any? did it say, have to look again, but understand what you're saying but wonder if it's the same everywhere, when my dad fell - and then drove himself to the doctor where they sent him to the ER, they sent him home with a head wound that they did not staple and with only oral instructions regarding otc antibiotic to keep it from getting infected that he did not understand and therefore it did indeed happen, while in a different state when his cousin did the very same thing they not only admitted him and kept him for a week for "observation" but then wouldn't even let him go home then but sent him to rehab until he was completely well. But sending him home in an ambulance; where do you ever see that? they let him drive himself home; bu later, when he was taken as opposed to driving himself, they didn't even have to be asked before admitting him, but they wouldn't do the surgery they would normally do on, say, my dil, but they did keep him that time for a week but sedated the whole time, which just made his whole overall condition worse, so not sure if we accomplished anything or not. Maybe that's why he lost 20 lbs. We've managed to get CT scans done, though, through ER. But if sis's dad has been going to the ER with each fall I'm surprised they haven't called in a social worker yet; they finally did with dad, unless he's not actually been hurting himself; they've been telling us they can only deal with life and death issues; everything else see your primary physician; I've wondered if that is the care rationing but he should be on Medicare I think. Not exactly sure what's going on; know dil's surgeon said she should have kept her after her surgery but been told it was something regarding the hospital and she has insurance but through the ACA. And not everybody can, at least not easily, especially if they have chronic health issues!

debdaughter, when I say the brother has no friends, I mean he most likely has none to socialize with, because he can't leave the father alone. He may have people he talks to on the phone or computer. But if he is crying on the couch and feels like a prisoner(that is what the OP said), he is isolated.

That is very common on sole caregivers, they can't leave the elderly parent to go out for the evening, and pretty soon the invites dry up because the answer is always no, I can't make it.

Also he no longer works, so what is there to talk about? Caregiving, dad's latest fall, the caregiver doesn't want to talk about that, and honestly people don't want to hear about it. So the caregiver finds they can't discuss their work, can't discuss a movie they just saw(unless it is on TV), they don't have much to say. So they retreat into themselves.

When your friends are talking about their weekend getaway, or the new restaurant they ate out, and all you have is caregiving, you feel inadequate and don't want to burden others with such talk.....so they find it easier to just not interact like they used to.

It's a side of caregiving many who haven't done don't think about.

Nothing Special, your name suits you. You don't know what you're talking about. Most "do nothing" siblings have no suggestions. Because they don't want to play a role in the situation. They're "hands off".

So it isn't in most cases that the sole caregiver is arguing over how to handle the care, they can't get any help even when they beg and stand on their head asking.

You're way off, it's not about arguing on how to deal with the parent's issues, it's that they play no role in it.