My mum is 87, a covert narcissist with whom I have always had a troubled relationship, but who moved to live in an AL near us and has shifted responsibility for her life to us (without asking if we minded!). My brother, who lives 25 miles away, and I always took it in turns to have her with us for Christmas after our dad died. But she now says she doesn't like going to their house for various reasons, most of which my brother has made efforts to overcome. As my mother is not a sociable person she won't go to the Christmas dinner provided by her AL. So we are left feeling obliged to have her here every year, even though we have three children and four grandchildren in different parts of the country and they like to come to stay too.
You might say it's not much to ask, having an old lady over once a year, and that's true (we do an awful lot else for her as well). But it's the sense of obligation and the perceived unfairness that niggle me: do my husband and I have the moral 'right' to choose what we do, which may involve going away with our own family one year, or do we have to put Mum's wishes first?
I would like to point out something that would apply to believers. If your parent has lived the life of a bully and abuser (I am not talking about behavior due to dementia), then ask yourself if you should encourage them? This is evil behavior and they will soon be standing before the Lord to be judged. Is it not better and kinder to push them, in any way you can, to morally decent behavior?
People like helenb63 and myself have almost always known a lot of guilting for a lot of years in our lives.
We usually come from narcissistic, gaslighting, abusive parents too. All too often we are the ones who drew the short straw in childhood and became family scapegoats. We became emotional dumping grounds and whipping posts for our selfish, narcissistic, bullying mothers to 'take it out on' because they're usually too cowardly to take it out on another adult.
So, employing the old familiar guilt trip of 'mom won't be here forever' and 'you'll be old yourself someday' doesn't fly with us. People like us have had way too much blame and guilt put on us for a long time and we did nothing wrong.
NO ONE owes an old person anything simply because they are old.
No one has a right to expect to get in this life what they were never willing to give themselves.
Some narcissist who always came first, last, and always in their life does not deserve nor should they expect their adult kids to cater to them when they become needy and demanding in their old age. I don't think so. These kinds of parents should count themselves lucky if their adult kids make sure they have food and a safe environment to live in and that's usually more than they deserve.
This is a support group. No one needs to have the guilt trips put on them here.
Bingo! If I could give you a thousand "likes" instead of just one, I would.
Narcissists are emotional vampires. People who had a nice upbringing with normal parents instead of toxic and abusive ones have NO idea what we have endured. My sociopathic Narc father was so impossible to deal with that both my physical and mental health were ruined to the point I had to go No contact a couple months before the pandemic broke out. I made sure he was well taken care of at the ALF. I had lost all love and respect for him years ago as my mother bore the brunt of his abuse. I lived in the F.O.G. for so many years. We did not spend his last Christmas (2019) with him. Hubby and I stayed home and had a quiet peaceful day.
It is often said that extreme Narcissists usually die alone because they have driven everyone away. He was a miserable toxic person. It was such a relief when it was over; no more gaslighting, scapegoating, temper tantrums, complaining, lying, crying wolf, wild goose chases, etc.
I have not felt an ounce of guilt or grief. My blood pressure and PTSD are doing much better now.
Your mom has 2 other choices - dinner at the AL (if she chooses not to attend and have it served in her room, she can choose that) or travel to your brother's house (if that option is still open to her.) Coming to your house for dinner is not an option this year. You don't have to give her an explanation.
What if you and your brother pick a day before Christmas to go to the AL and celebrate with her? Or take her out to a restaurant, or even back to your house? You can share a meal and memories, enjoy Christmas decorations, take photos, and return her to AL in a few hours. That gives her a Christmas celebration with her two adult children.
This also shows your adult children and grandchildren that are lots of ways to celebrate holidays,or start conversations about what a holiday means, to each person. Hallmark holidays only happen on TV.
You don't say it, but I imagine your 'not very social' mother in law doesn't interact much with your adult children and grandchildren...if only because there is more activity and it is hard for her to keep up.
Just my 2 cents.
You could possibly have answered your question yourself.
I cannot believe some of the answers you are receiving here. A simple 'no' from some of those commenting below would have been suffice.
You could possibly have answered your question yourself or you could take the worst possible advice that's been on here in quite awhile. No wonder people are in the shape they're in today .
And I don't even want to hear what you 'old' people think. I'm 30 years old & I not only care for mum, but grandparents AND work at a Nursing Home.
So, go ahead & start smoothing out your own wrinkles in the mirror. When you do - I guarantee you'll see the reflection of your narcissistic children running past you to do something that's a lot more fun😊
But if I do, I hope to be kind and grateful for the help.
I do not have children.
But I like to think that if I had, I would have been a kind, caring, loving, nurturing, thoughtful, patient, protective, understanding, good role model in their life. I hope they would have felt safe in their home with me.
We were not all that lucky to have had even 1 person like that growing up in our life. So please before you judge, come back when you have more experience, and are more aware of yourself. You will take stock of how you were raised, and who is to blame for the good or the bad and based on that you will understand more.
You need to be aware that many parents were not good to their children. Many parents are guilty of every kind of abuse imaginable and even some you would never imagine. The people complaining about their parents on this forum most likely did not have caring nurturing parents. If you are lucky enough to have good parents that is great, You are luckier than most.
And you are right - you stated that "you don't even know her mother"...I think I can guarantee that if you did know what a covert narcissist mother is really like, then you would feel differently.
This mother has someplace to go for the Holiday her sons. Its his turn. Helen had her last year. Mom has no choice, it her son's turn.
"Mom, he would be so hurt if you didn't come" 😊
* While I understand the sense of obligation, these are internal feelings / behaviors likely established decades ago.
* there comes a time - like now - when you take your personal power back and do what you want to do, realizing that the feelings of obligation may lurk around for a while as this is new behavior.
- If you have difficulty setting limits, enlist the support of your family, a social worker, or a therapist.
- This care isn't all on you unless you decide it is. This doesn't mean making these decisions are easy. They are not. However, you need to evaluate the quality of your life, your life-style, your relationship with your spouse and the rest of your family - and figure out what you want.
* I would presume that others in your family could help YOU out - ? Perhaps talk to them. This is NOT about your mother making decisions and 'ruling the roost' as she likely did all your life (being a narscisst as you say) It is about you taking your personal power back and doing what is right for you, with the support and help of your family.
* Be aware that you use phrases such as "do we have to . . . " you need to be aware every moment you say this or words / phrases that give your mother the power to decide what YOU do. NO YOU DON'T HAVE TO. And tell yourself that when you reframe your thoughts . . . which translate into behavior.
- Learn to reframe these thoughts. Take back your inner power. You deserve a quality (of) life, TOO. Right?
*****
Yes, that 'obligation' darkness will lurk over you like a thundering storm about to drench you; be ready for it and observe "Oh, I feel . . . without the judgment).
- If you can do just this - it'll be huge. When you remove the judgment, you can make healthy decisions for yourself, and your mother.
*****
From my point of view, you and your husband have EVERY right to choose what the two of you do; you need to feel this in your gut and heart. Otherwise, Mommy Dearest will have her way with you. Here's a hug. Gena
”But it’s the sense of obligation and the perceived unfairness that niggle me: do my husband and I have a moral ‘right’ to choose what we do... or do we have to put mum’s wishes first.”
Christmas is two months away and the poor woman is already worried about needing a break from her mother, for a single holiday, with other provisions available.
She’s suffering with the unfairness of bearing the burden unilaterally.
She’s not asking for tips on how to reduce the stress of pandering to her narcissistic mother’s wishes. Those well-intended suggestions compound the sense of obligation.
She’s considered the realities of having her mother for Christmas and decided that’s not best for her and her husband this year.
She’s asking members of this caregiver group for approval, or permission, or a maybe a simple lack of condemnation, to prioritize her and her husband’s needs.
Yes. It’s ok to take a break for Christmas.
I give you permission to enjoy your Christmas without your mother.
Your father died x years ago.
Your mother continued to live alone for [time], then unilaterally decided to move nearer to you.
For x years, you and brother alternated Christmases.
X years ago, mother stopped going to brother for whatever reason (probably dispute related, to do with sprout preparation or pigs-in-blankets or Queen's Christmas message or when to open presents - those are the big issues).
So how many Christmases on the trot have you done now?
It is definitely his turn, I'm just wondering how big a precedent you have to overcome.
Christmas lunch at the ALF is for people who don't have any family within travelling distance, or not that can tolerate them anyway. It isn't reasonable to expect your mother to include herself voluntarily in that category. "My presence is a nuisance to my children, this is only natural and I must accept it" is a bit too big a philosophical ask, really.
Certainly you recognize that your post is extremely offensive to many of the participants in this forum who have lost a parent and are overcome with grief when faced with nostalgic thoughts of the holidays.
I’m glad, though, that you are asking in this anonymous place rather than asking people that know you.
Sounds like the Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.
But my GF had a mother who she never understood why she treated her like she did. No physical abuse but it was very obvious that younger sister was favored. It was so bad when Summer came, her Mom shipped her off to relatives 7 hrs away till school started. She was one miserable lady.
Thank God that you have never been around a narcissistic person. Its all about them. They really don't know how to love and have very little empathy. They bring everyone down.
I had a friend's boys tell her that she was not invited to Christmas dinner because they didn't want the Drama. She just couldn't go and enjoy the time with her son, she had to make her comments to others that she rarely sees her sons so it was nice finally being invited and so on and so on. She never saw where she was wrong.
Yes, this woman is old and won't be around much longer, but SHE has made her bed. People don't want to be around negative people. Yes, its harsh. Me, I am 72 and I really don't want my remaining Holidays ruined by a negative person.
Most AL facilities work hard at having an exceptionally nice Christmas dinner and may welcome families who make reservations. Could you work this into your schedule? Bring her some gifts or special treats, Then celebrate at another time with whomever and however you wish. If you attend dinner at the facility, she won't be able to call the shots, claim you abandoned her or run the show. And it won't be a long drawn-out affair since care givers there must get on with their usual duties.
You don't need to offer her an elaborate "excuse"...anything that seems appropriate .Could be just have "some other plans for the day" or claim you want a break from all the cooking etc. "We thought this might be a nice change!" could be enough...Keep it brief, simple, than change the subject.
Thanks for all the practical suggestions - clearly not my strong suit.
Go away with your family and simply say you are unavailable.
Sounds like you have had years with her there, so there is no law it has to be every year.
It's her choice if she wants to skip your brother's year and you don't have to fill in the gap. She may decide that it's better to go to your brother's house than be alone. It Is Her Choice to be alone if it is his turn.
You are not responsible if she chooses to be alone, even if she tries to guilt you into it. You do not have to tie yourself into knots trying to please someone who won't treat you well.
"That doesn't fit in with our plans this year".
"We've decided to do Christmas early this year and make it quieter so you don't get frazzled like you did last year".
"I'm having some health issues and my doctor has told me to tine the holidays down this year".
If the parent creates drama, tries to manipulate or induce guilt, keep quiet, don't react, respond with an "hmmmm".
Call up your brother and tell him that you cannot and will not invite your mom this year due to your health and her unhappiness at your home in the past.
It sounds like your mom carries her unhappiness around with her wherever she goes. Your husband needs to realize this.
No one is responsible for the happiness of another.