My mum is 87, a covert narcissist with whom I have always had a troubled relationship, but who moved to live in an AL near us and has shifted responsibility for her life to us (without asking if we minded!). My brother, who lives 25 miles away, and I always took it in turns to have her with us for Christmas after our dad died. But she now says she doesn't like going to their house for various reasons, most of which my brother has made efforts to overcome. As my mother is not a sociable person she won't go to the Christmas dinner provided by her AL. So we are left feeling obliged to have her here every year, even though we have three children and four grandchildren in different parts of the country and they like to come to stay too.
You might say it's not much to ask, having an old lady over once a year, and that's true (we do an awful lot else for her as well). But it's the sense of obligation and the perceived unfairness that niggle me: do my husband and I have the moral 'right' to choose what we do, which may involve going away with our own family one year, or do we have to put Mum's wishes first?
Your mom has 2 other choices - dinner at the AL (if she chooses not to attend and have it served in her room, she can choose that) or travel to your brother's house (if that option is still open to her.) Coming to your house for dinner is not an option this year. You don't have to give her an explanation.
What if you and your brother pick a day before Christmas to go to the AL and celebrate with her? Or take her out to a restaurant, or even back to your house? You can share a meal and memories, enjoy Christmas decorations, take photos, and return her to AL in a few hours. That gives her a Christmas celebration with her two adult children.
This also shows your adult children and grandchildren that are lots of ways to celebrate holidays,or start conversations about what a holiday means, to each person. Hallmark holidays only happen on TV.
You don't say it, but I imagine your 'not very social' mother in law doesn't interact much with your adult children and grandchildren...if only because there is more activity and it is hard for her to keep up.
Just my 2 cents.
People like helenb63 and myself have almost always known a lot of guilting for a lot of years in our lives.
We usually come from narcissistic, gaslighting, abusive parents too. All too often we are the ones who drew the short straw in childhood and became family scapegoats. We became emotional dumping grounds and whipping posts for our selfish, narcissistic, bullying mothers to 'take it out on' because they're usually too cowardly to take it out on another adult.
So, employing the old familiar guilt trip of 'mom won't be here forever' and 'you'll be old yourself someday' doesn't fly with us. People like us have had way too much blame and guilt put on us for a long time and we did nothing wrong.
NO ONE owes an old person anything simply because they are old.
No one has a right to expect to get in this life what they were never willing to give themselves.
Some narcissist who always came first, last, and always in their life does not deserve nor should they expect their adult kids to cater to them when they become needy and demanding in their old age. I don't think so. These kinds of parents should count themselves lucky if their adult kids make sure they have food and a safe environment to live in and that's usually more than they deserve.
This is a support group. No one needs to have the guilt trips put on them here.
Bingo! If I could give you a thousand "likes" instead of just one, I would.
Narcissists are emotional vampires. People who had a nice upbringing with normal parents instead of toxic and abusive ones have NO idea what we have endured. My sociopathic Narc father was so impossible to deal with that both my physical and mental health were ruined to the point I had to go No contact a couple months before the pandemic broke out. I made sure he was well taken care of at the ALF. I had lost all love and respect for him years ago as my mother bore the brunt of his abuse. I lived in the F.O.G. for so many years. We did not spend his last Christmas (2019) with him. Hubby and I stayed home and had a quiet peaceful day.
It is often said that extreme Narcissists usually die alone because they have driven everyone away. He was a miserable toxic person. It was such a relief when it was over; no more gaslighting, scapegoating, temper tantrums, complaining, lying, crying wolf, wild goose chases, etc.
I have not felt an ounce of guilt or grief. My blood pressure and PTSD are doing much better now.
I would like to point out something that would apply to believers. If your parent has lived the life of a bully and abuser (I am not talking about behavior due to dementia), then ask yourself if you should encourage them? This is evil behavior and they will soon be standing before the Lord to be judged. Is it not better and kinder to push them, in any way you can, to morally decent behavior?
Your Brother can have mom over that year for Xmas or she can stay at the facility if she doesn't want to go to your brothers.
I do understand however if you children and Grands come down, tour mom would want to see everyone and should but just let her know she can't spend the night because there is No Room.
UNFORTUNATELY..... most people do not have the slightest idea what it is to have to have a narc for a parent. I do. I would say, LEAVE TOWN. Just this once- tell her you promised the kids, whatever. You definitely need a break. Don't listen to people who say you are being selfish because with a parent like that, believe me, YOU HAVE TO BE SELFISH FOR YOURSELF because they will take everything you have and everything you are.
how are you not even embarrassed
to ask ???
what an example you’re setting for your children … be ready for same
treatment when you’re there !!!
I would suggest that part of the problem is not the holiday obligation but her worrisome behavior. Please consider reading any of the "boundary" books by Townsend and Cloud. With your spouse, come up with plans to deal with each of her problem behaviors - the books are really good at outlining steps to accomplish this. It might also help to book a few sessions with a therapist of counsellor to help with this process.
I've spent too many holidays washing dishes, endless kitchen clean up. Why not work on some holiday "traditions" that you can actually enjoy?
Since it's two months away and you're already this worked up over it, call your brother and ask him to collect her to go to his house. And ask that he not discuss it with her until closer to the holiday. No point making her fret over it until then. Situation solved and she won't be intruding on your family day.
There may be a little more going on that what meets the eye on this post. Maybe you can calm yourself by putting her at brother's house - and then plan new years or another special dinner at your house where an old lady wouldn't dampen the mood of the day. I'm kind of scratching my head on this one.
But past history can certainly trigger high emotions.
People wanting to arrive & be catered for, despite low mobility & lack of access. Despite not being invited. Despite their 'host' not even being home (at work).
I was where the OP seems to be (pressured & guilted) with what I suppose appeared, to outsiders, a reasonable request. To 'Have Mother (or whoever) over for Xmas'.
I's not really about if the request IS reasonable or not - to me it's a boundary issue.
It's Mother saying "I WANT" & testing her power.
I think if he is willing to take turns - make that the plan this year.
No need to convince her. Brother's or AL. These are the only choices on table - SHE picks one.
A few strategies for you.
#1. Open. Mother, it's great you will get to see Brother & XYZ at Xmas this year. Yes, you have been invited there. Mine? No, that was last year. It's only fair we take turns. Honest & positive.
#2. Covert. Work behind the scenes. If Brother is inviting, then that is the plan. Let NOTHING deviate from this plan. Never bring it up. If she does, minimal response.
Mother is acting like a Queen Bee who has powers to dictate who will serve her.
Her motivation may be fear of being alone, fear of not being loved or wanted.
So if you do want to play her games, or smooth her feelings - ramp up how much she IS wanted - at Brother's this year, yours the next.
If she goes next level into Dictator Mode: everytime she says she IS coming to your home instead. Say, "YES. 2022. Be great. See you then". Every time.
I'd call that #3. Wear her down.
Two can play that game. But you will win (unless she can taxi to whereever you will be Xmas Day).
Best of luck!
You, your brother, and your mother all live very near each other, so is a combo Christmas celebration somewhere possible? At her assisted living, ideally (if your local Covid restrictions allow), or some other neutral ground like a community hall or restaurant? Could it be on the 24th? Or 26th? You certainly don’t have to have her stay in your house to include her in some of your Christmas gatherings. Can any of your adult children be her transport for your gathering? We used to celebrate Christmas with my grandparents at their nursing home, brought in some easy-to-transport food, and gifts. There would be 20 of us there, at least, from half a dozen households with two hours about the longest drive away for anyone. It’s not the setting, nor the table, nor the food that makes a Christmas gathering, nor even the specific date. Each of our families also had Christmas gatherings in our houses, or at in-laws, outside of this one at the nursing home. Are any such alternatives possible?
This year, we've invited ourselves over to my stepsons house for Thanksgiving. Christmas may be a pot luck at my house, MAYBE, where I'll provide the dinner rolls, the kids can bring the rest of the meal while I recline and get served.
Since my mother is in a wheelchair and too large to haul around, we visit her to celebrate the holidays a couple of days before the real holidays and bring food in to the memory care to share with her. Just Christmas Eve, Thanksgiving she eats at the MC and Christmas day dinner as well. Done and done.
If you want to go away for Christmas, tell mother you're going away and she can either spend that holiday with her son or at the AL, her choice. I'm an only child so it's me or nobody. Use your brother as your equal partner in sharing the burden of your difficult mother. That's what I'd do. Now that my mother's dementia has greatly advanced, it's actually gotten easier to get in and out of her MC with less fuss than it used to require when she was more lucid and demanding blood from me.
Wishing you the best of luck doing things YOUR way this year
A Christmas potluck at your house sounds pretty nice. Everybody brings something and it's not just one person driving themselves to exhaustion trying to do everything. I like this idea and am considering trying it myself this year.
No. You don't like it Mother? Diddums.
(I'll be back when I have read the other replies).
I have just started a December Stress Discussion. This topic triggers an explosions of seething mess for me - & I do not wish lump it onto Helen's question.
Maybe it's all in the delivery of how you present the info to her - you can spin it to make it positive! :-)
This is the best suggestion on the thread. Using "reverse guilt" to get the mother to go to the brother's house.
Very good idea. Helenb63 should lay it on thick to her mom about how bad her brother will feel if she doesn't go there for the holiday.
She should also add in that is it 'too much to ask' that mom go and spent the holiday with her son.
Brilliant!
I do not spend them with either of my parents. After decades of criticism from both of them, I have no interest in listening to it anymore. If I were to serve anything other than turkey all heck would break loose. Well you know what? I don't like anything other than the thigh meat and would rather have a nice roast for dinner, or better yet, brunch, the spend the day reading my new Christmas book all alone.
Helen, you have every right to spend Christmas any way you like. Do not feel any obligation to have someone who does not like to socialize anyways dictating how you spend the holidays.
You pick a date, call it Christmas, and that's the day you spend with Mom. Then you do Christmas when you want to with whomever you want to.
Or, you tell her that brother expects her to make an effort at least one year in three and will be hurt if she doesn't join his family. I assume this is approximately true. Is it???
If this is Brother's year than that is where she goes. I like the idea of having dinner at the AL and stopping in Christmas morning with a little something. If all Mom contributes to the get together is negativity, then I wouldn't have her. Or have the dinner Christmas Eve and have Mom over Christmas Day for leftovers.
Does Mom spend the night? Good reason not to have her, sorry girls and grands are coming home, no room.
I personally have to have boundries or I get overwhelmed. My Mom was easy but when she had to stop driving I set one day a week to shop, go to the bank and lunch out. Dr visits were done when I could do them, I worked p/t. We lived in the same town so picking up things, when I was out, was not a big problem. But it was, when u can.
She makes the choice to "not be sociable" so if she eats dinner in her room that is up to her. I would think the facility staff would try to get her more involved but if they have tried and she still prefers to be alone that is her choice.
And...it is your house you can invite whom ever you wish to.
(personally I would not want to go anywhere where someone felt "obligated" to invite me, if I am not truly wanted I would rather stay at home)
We spent each holiday with our own family.