Does anyone know why the "whipping post/scapegoat" child so often becomes the narcissist's caregiver? Even when they do not get on as well?

My experience as my mother’s scapegoat has exacted pain, misery and tragedy. Not only does she create flying monkeys of all the other family members, my husband fell for it too. He was a plumber and did countless jobs for my mother at her home. He would pick her up on Fridays and bring her to our house for the weekend. Her reliance on him and comments she made e.g., “Steve treats me more like a wife than a MIL” were clearly unhealthy. Anything I said about it he reacted negatively. Eventually the whole scapegoating family won him over (mobbing) to where it destroyed our marriage. Our fights were always about my family and he took their side. I could take no more - I left him. And then he killed himself. Scapegoating is EVIL.

I realised yesterday (with a little guilt) that our lockdown has give me a proper break. My relatives got their aides & deliveries in place. I stay in my home/work bubble & have returned to being more like *just a relative*. They have found solutions for their physical & emotional needs to be met. I can now be an add-on - a friendly phone call - a friendly visitor again when lockdown ends.

My stepping back before was sucessfull but now I see it was more physical, there was still this huge emotional pressure. It did work though. Even though I started saying no, my DH still was willing to help. I got better at saying no, better at letting DH decide for himself his participation without any comment. Quite quickly he wound back his duties too. I mean, why was he leaving work, rushing here & there when I wouldn't? I think he started to feel a tiny bit of resentment & then stepped back too.

The best bit is it has allowed my relatives to get more in charge of their own lives, get advice from other impartial sources. It's a win/win.

Helen, I hope the path becomes clearer for you too.

IMHO your mother is continuing to whip you. If you don't want the roll, explain the pattern to your husband, make a decision as to exactly how you will be treated and have a meeting with your brother announcing that you are moving Mom out of her role, then do it. Mom ceases to be the punisher, you remove yourself from the whipping post, your bro steps up, or Mom ships out. Have your plan B in place first,

Helen, I ended up reading quite a lot of your very long thread. It became clear that you are doing well in understanding the pickle you are in and in setting boundaries with your mother. It also became clear that an important part of your problem is getting your husband to set boundaries too.

Can you talk through with him what you have learned about boundary setting, and ask him to think about his own boundaries? If you don’t want to say ‘do it for me’, you can say ‘do it for her’. It really is in her best interest to continue doing everything she can, so that she does not lose her abilities. It is in her best interest to create her own interests and friendships, not to rely on you or your husband to be her recreation and socialisation. It is in her best interest to have a life that does not depend on you both. What if either of you get sick? She loses her support at a time when you have no time to find new supports for her.

Everyone has boundaries in their relationships. For some people it comes naturally, with no dissonance between the parties. For other people it has to be thought through. You’ve got to the stage where it is your husband who needs to think through his boundaries with your mother. Part of that is obviously the emphasis he needs to put into the marriage, and indeed into his other activities. If you can treat it as an academic exercise, not a complaint, it might work better for both of you.

Hi, I'm the eldest daughter of a narcissistic mother. Yes, as she ages, she's now 95, she's unable to manipulate me as much, but I can still see her "tactics". And, for myself and my sister, it has nothing to do with academics, or practicality. It's a dysfunctional relationship, all the way around. Your husband may not meekly do things for her, but may have been trained early on, like myself. My son's are always telling me I do too much for her, and that's in large part, I'm finally learning, due to her ability to manipulate me into thinking she can't do things for herself. And if mum is anything like mine, she has a way of "asking" that promises her the ability to NEVER say please. She insinuates, she hints. I've been so good at it I call it "The Trained Seal Syndrome". I was 55 before I even knew about Narcissistic Personality Disorder. My personal reference is "DONM", daughters of narcissistic mothers, it's online and absolutely fantastic for help, healing and guidance.

Helen, in response to your most recent post, it’s great to hear you have a counsellor to help you with this - they are another vital part of your support network. You mention that your mother prefers to rely on your husband than on you - but maybe she just wants to come between you and can successfully do this by demanding so much of his time and attention, especially if you’ve been firm in dealing with her and she sees she can no longer directly control you. You’ve mentioned guilt and fear on your post. A few days ago I read some advice on another topic which really stuck with me: ditch the FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt). You are all fearful of raising the subject of her getting more care, but at least the three of you are in agreement so can tackle this together as a united front. You feel guilty about your husband doing most of the work for her, and about you not feeling close to her. Maybe you also feel some sort of obligation too? Once you can recognise and identify your feelings in these areas, you, your husband and counsellor should be able to work towards you feeling less overwhelmed by these thoughts. And when you successfully arrange additional bought-in care for your mother, you can start to get your own life back.

Lay down some boundaries with your husband about how often he goes over there to the assisted living to help her. If she can afford assisted living can she afford to hire a helper instead of depending on your husband. It also sounds like you and your husband need therapy as a couple.

Helen b, don’t let your mother drive a wedge between you and your husband. Narcissistic people don’t care about the damage they inflict on other people’s relationships, in fact in some cases they positively relish it. From your various posts on this subject, it sounds like you’ve been really working hard on setting boundaries about what YOU are prepared do do for your demanding and controlling mother, but that your husband is having less success with this. It sounds like you are understandably getting stressed with him for doing her bidding and this is making you feel even worse. Can I suggest that you let him deal with your mother however he wants, just for the next week or so, whilst you observe the effect this has on his well being? Where there are problems, you might see some possible solutions. If he wants to get up at midnight and rush over to her house, let him! He won’t want to do that too often, believe me! Then, when you have had a chance to look at the situation from a more detached position, you might be able to highlight to him what you have found, and he might be more amenable to making some changes. This could also involve trying to get social services involved to take the burden of some of your mother’s demands, as you both really are not responsible for her well being. If she rejects this, tell her she is on her own and you and your husband can do no more to help her until she accepts help from other people as well. Please, don’t let her narcissistic behaviour wreck your marriage.

I know all about being the "whipping post/scapegoat child who has to become caregiver to the narcissistic parent because I am that person. As a friend, let me give you the ONLY strategy that will work and make the situation tolerable. The caregiving MUST be on your terms. Not your mother's. Your husband has to stop meekly taking orders from her and your brother along with the rest of the family involved need to stand up in solidarity for you. This is the only way a narcissistic and selfish person in need learns how to be reasonable. They will not be reasonable for one moment if they are humored and allowed to dominate a situation their way. I totally understand the feelings or anger and resentment for being the "whipping post / scapegoat" child. I am one myself. Talk to somebody like a therapist, a friend, or even to some of the excellent people in this group because so many here know what you're going through.

Helen, have you thought further about having your mom's needs assessed?

It certainly sounds as though she would benefit from a facility that would provide transportation to doctors and the like. Perhaps more organized socialization would make it easier for her to meet people.

Pasa 18, I am working on doing what you suggest but still somewhat resent being forced into the caring role without being consulted. I don't yet know what level of care is beyond my capacity, though; physically I could do more, but emotionally it would probably wreck my life.

She created and exploited your need to be loved, but you broke away through physical distancing and became your own person. Now she has moved back she wants to recreate the codependency because she knows she needs you and fully expected for you to fall back in line in your old role of trying to please her and be loved by her. She knows you are the one she could manipulate with emotional carrots. It is natural that when she met with resistance from you and saw your husbands need to please that she would create the similar relationship she had with you and your brother whom she uses more easily than you, but she knows that you are the key to her future. And she doesn't care that it causes pain or difficulty in your marriage. What does your husband say about being used/ played this way. Did he have a similar relationship with one of his parents?
What is his emotional weakness that she saw and now manipulates? What is yours?
Does he complain?
Does he justify her behavior? Does he feel duty bound?

I was always the whipping post but I was dutiful and loyal, I tried very hard to do the right thing it regardless of my feeling. It never paid off with more love and respect from her but it ultimately made me stronger and able to set boundaries and reject use and abuse by others. Nevertheless, in the end I loved my mother she gave me life, so in the end it was me that sat next to her 8 hours a day every days in the nursing home and held her in my arms when she passed. And I had peace in my heart after grieving because she was never able to really love me but I know what I gave to her let her know she was loved, but you describe my relationship with my mother and siblings. She loves you in her own strange narcissistic way. Hold on to that and the fact that you are a person if value worthy if your husbands time, attention, and affectionate love, support, and loyalty.

Helenb63, I too have many times when I would prefer not to be as detached emotionally as I am when dealing with my mother and her challenging behaviour. I feel I am a caring person but I have to limit what I am prepared to give, otherwise she will once again make me ill with exhaustion through her excessive demands. This really saddens me. I have told my husband that when she is no longer with us, I will mourn the mother-daughter relationship that we never had. I've been learning to accept this now, over the past few years. It's not ideal, but it is what it is.

Because they are the scapegoat!

GingerMay, I’m glad you identify with my experience of this. It’s good to know there are others in the same situation, using similar ways to cope with it all. I know I’m not crazy, a horrible person or imagining it all! Also I think it’s great you refer to the clarity of thinking that we’ve arrived at after many, many decades as a GIFT, rather than feeling aggrieved about it. As you say, we will never ever change this behaviour so an acceptance of it, coupled with the right coping strategies is definitely the way to go, for our own health and sanity.

Helenb63, I think the scapegoat so often becomes the caregiver for two reasons. Firstly the scapegoat is trying to redeem themselves and to seek approval from their parent, having been told for a lifetime that they are just not good enough. Secondly the scapegoat wishes for a better relationship with the parent, and hopes that caring for them will result in this better relationship. Looking back, I’m sure subconsciously I wished for both of these things from my mother when she came to live with us. Within the first year it became obvious on many occasions that neither of these things would happen. My mother had viewed the arrangement as purely transactional and has had no wish to become closer to me or to stop the verbal and emotional abuse. This was a shock to me but I’ve learned to live with it. In return I ensure she is safe and cared for but I do this in a fairly detached way so that her behaviour has a limited opportunity to hurt me. I reject negative behaviour in much the same way as I’ve seen many successful professional caregivers do: through compassionate detachment. I walk away when the rages start, and literally turn my back on this kind of behaviour, or leave the room. When you starve someone of the oxygen of attention from this kind of behaviour they soon realise it is futile and the rages become less frequent.

'she actually admitted she couldn't be bothered.'

I think that is quite illuminating. If she had said YOU have to do it for me it would show how she believes you must serve her. But can't be bothered... hmmm. Maybe because it's all getting too hard?

My relative said that. Can't be bothered. Can't do it. Is too hard. (But does things for professionals like PT).

I say 'move it or lose it' or 'you can do that'. Then just leave it. Even just by me stalling, she would often do it herself.

With the phone call - Mom, you can call them. Go into triage mode: what's the level of importance on this one? What's the worst that would happen? The receptionist may call Mom instead? It may get forgotten? Guilt may make your Mother call them afterall. It will be her problem if it's not done.

It's exhausting triaging each request though!

Simply because it is easy for her to use, abuse and misuse you. She had probably previously used you as a conduit to express and carry out her will and felt that you would be the perfect caretaker. Over the years, she has manipulated you and knows how to use you for her needs and wants. And you have quietly done what she wanted. From experience, I say to you, dont let her usurp your life. It will never be enough nor good enough. You will never be enough nor good enough. She knows you will put up with her crap. The other kids won't. Do only what you want to do. If she pulls the old and feeble card, tell her there are senior services and resources to help her. If she needs daily care, tell her she could have an aide come in. If she tried to shame you or guilt you, tell her senior homes can address her needs better than you can. If she threatens to disown you or not leave you any thing, well, so. You got your own, you don't need hers. If she says anything about loving you, giving you birth, taking care of you, raising you....you don't owe her anything for that, she birthed you and you have probably paid for that all your young life. Stop it and tell your husband to stop. You don't have to pay for being born. Don't let her Rob you of life. Her only desire is to use you up. She does not care about you even if she acts like it. It's only a ploy to pull you in and use you more. She is her focus. She and she only. That's why she moved near you. Be strong and of good courage. If your other siblings complain about you, telling you what you should be doing, let them do it. You will get all the work and responsibility you sacrifice your life and they get to live theirs. Why are you not as good as the others.

Communicating on the phone when hearing impaired IS hard. But everytime Mom asks you to make her calls she gets a little less independant & you get a little more sucked in to be her girl-everyday saviour.

My sister finds it difficult to make phone calls too (stroke related speech & hand problems). She tried calling me to call others for her but it didn't take long to stop that habbit. Just so inefficient all that back & forth. Like being her on call translater. I wasn't always available when she needed my help either so it got frustrating on both sides. I suggested she find a way to organise her stuff directly. She found text works for her better. Or emails. Could your Mom text instead?

If not, just make the call & be done with it this time. But this is another piece of 'evidence' that Mom needs an AL with with 'A'. Otherwise she does the 'living' & you are the 'assistance'!

Well, as some others have pointed out, you are female. At least in my mother's eyes, that makes you a servant. Fortunately, your mom is in AL, not living with you -- set your boundaries and don't deviate. You don't need to be at her beck and call.

THE MOMENT IS WHAT COUNTS~~!!! LAUGH WITH HER, be happy, look happy, dance, dance dance. with her and anyone else who wants to try.

Poor Edith, was wheelchair bound. Her arms didn't move. I would hold the ball in her hands, just so she can feel that dime store, princess ball. she had fun. I would hold her hands to dance. then Ron would come around grab her hands so I can hold my mom's hands. we place music, drank our milkshakes and hamburgers, and made a party out of it. So much better with a partner in crime.. LIKE YOUR HUBBY.
My partner in crime was my bestfriend. Her mom was my mom's roommate in a a 6 pack.. IT WAS GREAT..... !!!!

This is a positive,,, make this situation positive for both you and mom.. Never mind anyone else. They can visit anytime they want to. They have her address. And now, her address is closest to you :) What could be better? You know I'm right. Once everything gets settled, and you are changing the "light", you will be fine. MUSIC, DANCE, FOOD, DANCE, LAUGHTER... SINCE SHE IS in a AL, all you need to do is bring in th happiness. HAPPINESS . JUST MAKE HER ROOM FULL OF JOY... FULL OF JOY what she likes. Your task will be easy.
visitations only 5 minutes to one hour long. what ever you can spare... MAKE IT JOYFULL..... !!!!!! PLEASE

Whatever the reason.. be honored that you are near your mom now, especially since your hubby doesn't seem to mind helping her out. Geez, at least you have a hubby that helps you out in these circumstances.

I wold rather have mom closer to me, so I can pop in and say hello, bring milkshakes, and cookies. music and play a big ole dime store ball with her.

you don't have to stay long 10 minutes the least... 1 hour the most, anything between is good for everyone. Make sure you bring her favorite music so the whole hall can dance with you. :)

MAKE FUN MUSICAL, AND AS SHORT AS YOU WANT. JUST MAKE IT HAPPEN FOR A MOMENT. :)

In my case, Mom is so deferential to men, they are in charge, know more, etc. I think she actually cowers a bit to men. She feels she can boss me around, and did since I was terribly shy as a child. I have pushed back as an adult, trying to state boundaries to no avail. Tonight she was whining about not being able to go out, then pretty much insisting that I travel to see her next weekend. I said no, as virus cases are going up. She then said how would I get it as I work from home. What if my car broke down? I always come back completely exhausted as she has a huge list of chores for me, plus she expects elaborate meals made by me. I went there about 3 weeks ago. Went ok until about day 4, then she had a hissy fit, out of the blue, but I could see her smirking. I had made one of her favorite meals, and she refused to eat it. All just playing her usual mind games with me. My brother can do no wrong. She told me tonight she sure hoped my brother wouldn’t get the virus, but had no worries about me. I shouldn’t be so selfish and only think of myself. She said I only think of myself, don’t think about her. It has always been about her. Even my brother has said nothing is ever enough for her. Needs constant attention. I blew up on her during tonight’s call. She called back twice, leaving messages. She no longer has a daughter, all I think about is myself, and I am so lazy, worthless, etc. She has said this before then calls back being nice when she needs something.
When someone said they got calls re:ants, I laughed. For at least 2 years, off and on Mom has had ants. When I was there, maybe 4 to 6 per day. I just stepped on them and flushed them. She had a meltdown about it. I was like I killed all of them. Brother had lined up an exterminator but she had him cancel. Why? Because she thrives on drama - good or bad. After the last visit, she had written two nasty notes to me, after I had not only worked full time but cleaned her home from top to bottom, made healthy meals for her, basically did everything she wanted. My brother was right. It will never be enough. I had said I was planning on making some updates to my house. If the virus gets worse in the fall might make sense for her to stay with mea while. She said you know I can’t do the stairs. I said I would look into having something done (as in stairlift). She called me back the next day ranting how buying a 2 story house was part of my evil plan as I knew she could not walk up stairs and how dare I buy a house on my own. I have been here for over 15 years, and she could navigate stairs at that time. I am an adult, so I can buy whatever I want legally. Basically it was that she could not control me and cannot do so now. I can’t change her at this point, she’s in her 90’s. I can only work on myself and limit my interaction. It is such a drain mentally and physically. A roller coaster every week.
I have reflected if I am the problem, but she was termed “difficult “ by her family. Friends have told me no, she is being unreasonable. A couple said well duh, when I said I think she’s a narcissist. Asked me how it took me so long to realize it. The problem is to not let her push my buttons and she’s an expert. Reading on the subject and journaling has helped a lot. I believe even my golden child brother got counseling as it was impacting his health.
Good luck to all other whipping posts.

It happens because people allow it to happen. You have the power to say no more.

I think another consideration here, Helen is that there are some basic misunderstandings of what it means to "honor" our parents. It means to respect them for their good works and good deeds and their sacrifices in raising us. But it doesn't mean to become a slave, and a "whipping post". That can become masochism. And there of course IS a reward in that masochism, or an expected reward of others (because the parent will not) praising you. It is basically a martyrdom. When the parent doesn't give us praise we seek it from others often. I think that you would benefit so much from seeking help. Often licensed Social Workers who work with life changes can guide us in setting boundaries, in working things out, and can provide us great insight into our own reasons for choosing what we choose, and in making healthy changes for as happy a life as we can manage given that the rain does fall in all our lives.
Wishing you so much luck going forward. There is such good food for thought in this thread. We often need to reach out for a disinterested and trained person to help us just sort through and organize our thought. Otherwise we tend to stay mired in the daily routine, because it is, if not "good", at least "comfortable.

"Maybe my husband has taken over the role of golden child from my brother - who like me is getting more and more exasperated by Mum, whereas my husband meekly does whatever she asks, ignoring the emotional toll it takes on me."

Although your question started with why one (or more) "whipping post/scapegoat" children become the caregiver, it sounds like your bigger issue is hubby tending too much to your mother and not enough to you. It does sound like your mother found a softie who she can manipulate easier. Clearly you have seen enough and have enough recommendations for setting your own boundaries. What you do need to do is have a good discussion with hubby - no accusations, no arguing, no threats, just a discussion. Ask questions such as why he needs to provide all the care he does or why he gives in to mom's demands, Don't respond to them, just ASK and dig into what is his take on things. See if you can find out what his motivations are. As you noted, perhaps it is because he lost his own parents and feels the need to do this because he couldn't do it for his own. Perhaps this is his way to "help" your situation and emotional needs. Perhaps he is just a naturally giving person. Whatever the case, he may not realize that it affects you the way it does. We are all different and react to things in different ways. But stick to asking him questions - no comments on what he replies. It will be natural to try to refute what he says, but try to avoid that. Getting to the bottom of his reasoning is important. You need to know before you can make a plan to try to compromise.

In general, I am a giving type of person. I like to help others if I can, and will do so as long as they don't take advantage of me. Some people WILL do that, and it sounds like your mother is one of them. I get satisfaction and feel good when I can help others, so this may be another reason hubby does this, but maybe he doesn't realize he is being played to some extent.

Once you understand what is behind his motivation, try to work on a compromise. If he drops everything when mom says jump, ask him to prioritize the "tasks" she is setting for him. If it is critical (no heat, AC not working, something necessary is broken/not working), then he should deal with it asap. If it is non-critical, he gets to add it to the MIL-honey-do list. Perhaps set one day/week or every other week to tend to the do list. That doesn't mean everything on the list gets done, but it will limit the times he goes. There should be a second list, the Helen-do-list... That would have the things that need tending in your own home and include helen-tending needs - take you out once/week, aka date night, spending time with you at home, either doing chores together or what have you. See if you can find a balance between the lists, so that he can fill your needs.

Don't forget he has needs too. Perhaps there should be a third list, the Hubby-list, which includes input from him, for what his needs are. He sounds like a very nice person, and you should make extra efforts to show how much you appreciate him too!

Most people don't hit someone who hits back. You have to defend yourself. No one else is going to do that for you. You can't wait for a knight in shining armor. If you keep pulling your punches, you will keep getting taken for granted. People don't really know what they're doing. It's a reflex. So, you have to stand up for yourself.

consider asking husband to meet your emotional needs ...as you put it... in areas in which you know he can succeed. If he is able to feel effective and appreciated by you in this, he may gladly shift his focus from helping you with your Mom (and his Mom in law) to a shift toward you. If he is able to be fluid in giving the concrete help to your Mom (and to you in that way) then maybe he can and will want to give emotionally to you in ways you need if you can guide..., unless you already have? Or you are both exhausted... Would he replenish with you upon invitation? Wishing you an easier, gentler time

My late mother was not a narcissist, but she wasn't a nurturer either, having befriended a person who abused me. I did the best I could with out of state caregiving of her.

"I've been run down. I've been lied to. I don't know why I let that mean woman make me a fool...." (A.B.B.)

Well, aspects of that are true!