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My dad is just like his father, and I'm so worried I will end up like him: dementia, hateful, abusive. Is this kind of narcissistic hate in our DNA? (I don't know what my mom would have been like because she died at 61 but she was always wonderful). I'm just so scared that I will somehow end up a terrible person like him and his father.

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WE HAVE CHOICES TODAY. :) that is what I ultimately learned...
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I used to think the same thing until I did a 12 step program.. ^_- ... which is not about drugs/alcohol, but the way we think, feel, and act as human beings on a daily basis. A guide for living and ealing with people, showing ways to live life on lifes terms.
My father and grandfather... no the family moto was "the "Doe's" family blood boils"... we can change, it takes a day at a time, we are different people -- but attitudes do not always(most of the time) reflect in our behavior. Recognize your defects of character and work on them... work everyday to be a better you... the more I help people, selfless acts, the less I am concerned with my own problems. I have found patience, peace, and coping mechanisms for how to live.

I began to care for my grandparents at an early age and it was an experience (esp. with anger/alzheimer's) I lost my identity, I lost faith in "not becoming my parents," but I found self-help groups very life changing (non-religious).
- Andrea
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Happy2 the situation you describe doesn't sound good for you OR good for your mother.

In the end, she is 95 and frankly if you make the decision that she can't live in your home any more then she doesn't have much choice. If she has the money to pay for her own care and accommodation, then find the right place for her and take her there physically. If she can't afford it, then do your homework on what state support she's entitled to and make plans accordingly. But ultimately NO ONE can force you to house your mother if you don't want to.

The worst possible compromise is to have her living with you and then find it so unbearable that you ostracise her in your home. Don't forget that, even if it isn't technically her place, it is also the only home she has.

Your brother has downed tools and refused to have her staying with him because he finds it unbearable. Apparently, so do you. So follow his example. Find your mother another place to live as fast as you can.
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No one can be abusive unless you let them. Your mother could live in a senior home ,there is no law that says she must live with you. You said your brother wouldn't keep her.Also bullies only pick on people that are weak, try standing up to her, I bet she will back down.
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My mom is 95 and just as abusive(verbally and emotionally) as she has ever been. She lives with me and it is unbearable - she refuses to move. My brother (whom I do not get along with - he is just as abusive) will no longer even let her come to visit unless she calls him first. I can understand his point. She used to stay with him on weekends and at my house during the week to give me a break - he can't take it anymore - so she is at my house 24/7 and is bossy and nasty. She trys to stick to me like glue and I have given her times to be i the kitchen for meals and otherwise I do not want to see her she feels she has the right to do whatever whenever she wants in my house - so misearable living with her.
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When my mom was alive, I was always telling people that the negative way she was, was nothing new, she was always a negative, complaining person, even when young. A friend of mine who has been through eldercare and who is also a psychology major, said her experience was, whatever the person was like when young, is what they will be like when old.
Alzheimer's can be totally different, but with non-Alzheimers dementia I have seen this to be true.Their personalities are similar, with the main trait emphasized.
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Mollie90, you are indeed blessed.
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I feel sorry for all of you who had mean mothers. Mine loved me with her whole hear heart and soul but she was old enough to be my grandma and had lived a very sheltered life. Therefore, she had a lot of quirks that were hard to take. I loved my mother but I would never have picked her for a friend. My daughter and I are best friends, one of the reasons is learned early on not to let anything she told me come as a shock. I have friends thirty years younger than I, they know they can say anything to me without me raising my hands in horror.
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Good question. One of my parents had trouble with their parent (my grandparent) when they were my age. Now they are exhibiting the same negative traits as the grandparent.

There was even a degree of self-awareness in the generation that preceded me; running the gamut from "setting boundaries," to "empathizing," to willfully trying to be different. And now, I find myself acting in some of the same ways, doing the same things to avoid being hateful in my old age.

With a difference. Unlike my parent, I know that I am not immune to the sins of my predecessors. I have asked for healing from God, Who I understand to be the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the Father Son and Holy Spirit.. with all that it implies. I believe He has healed me and is continuing to heal me.
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sandwich42 and TammieLee, I feel like we are kindred spirits. Isn't it wonderful to have a place where those of us who are dealing with issues like this can come together and discover that we are not alone! My mother was extremely verbally abusive and in course, I married men who mirrored my mother. Although I did everything I could not to be like her, I gravitated toward men who were exactly like her, still seeking that all elusive approval. I finally found the courage to accept the fact that I did not need anyone's earthly approval. It was such a liberating feeling and now I protect that as I would my physical being. Like you two, I strive to be the antithesis of my mother...happy, joyous, compassionate, and loving. I know it is easy to "slip back" but knowing is the first step.
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Weareone, I would not want to and am not like either parent. They were both self-absorbed and extremely selfish and dragged us into their arguments all the time. Me and my siblings are the exact opposite. My late brother was a wonderful father and my sister and I have always put the needs of our children first. We are stuck with our dad after his wife passed. He is not aggressive, but still very selfish and cannot be left alone. Its really very taxing.
I doubt you have to worry about being like your dad. You are aware of the damage he is doing and you will thus do better.
Take care :)
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sandwich42 I mirror your eloquent response. As a young child I knew I would not be the mother she was, and I am not. I knew I wouldn't be the wife she was, and I am not. I knew I wouldn't be the victim she was, and I am not. I am so much more then her, however if it were not for her perhaps I would not have strived so hard to be positive, to get the most enjoyment out of life that I can, to love beyond words and to make my envisioned future come to fruition. She is who she is and continues to be but I must try my best to remain to be who I am, who I have cultivated myself to be, who I enjoy and love.
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Amen! She has no control over her thought processes and has no self awareness. Without self awareness we are doomed to becoming the result of negativity gone wild.
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I have spent my entire life sprinting away from the choices my mom made that are why she is the mean person she is today. I cultivated interests, friends, education, and have been open to love, affection, joy, and beauty. I purpose to be an optimist and find the reasons to be happy even when things really suck. I struggle with depression every day, but I work on it all the time.

She has always preferred to sit in the dark, alone, and look for the negative. I have told her that if Jesus did take her, she'd nag him to death. Not even heaven would please her. No anxiety or mood altering med has ever helped her. She would never consider therapy or self-help books. She is the passive victim in life who has zero control over events and her emotions. Everybody else is responsible for her happiness and we have all been a giant let down.

No thanks. That isn't how I choose to be now or intend to be later. I want to be that funny old lady wheeling around Shady Pines saying a friendly hello to everybody.
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I can't take this stuff anymore; parents who would never want to be a burden to their children are, and horribly. Making them quit their jobs and wipe their asses. I will be long gone before I get that bad. I think these parents are selfish.
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If I am to end up like my mother I would like some Nembutal please.
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My mother started 'losing it' when we flew from Florida to Maryland together in June. As I drove from Ormond Beach - near Daytona Beach - to Jacksonville - she kept asking the same questions. What time is it? Is the air on? What time do we have to be at the airport? What time does the plane leave? Are you sure this is the way? When will we arrive in Baltimore? Who is picking us up? What are they driving? It was nonstop the whole six days we were there. I guess her dementia started some months ago but I wasn't paying attention until others mentioned it. She calls me every day and tells me the same thing or asks me the same thing. I have no intention of putting her in assisted living because she can still get around although she falls periodically for no reason. She is a 16 year breast cancer survivor and developed bone cancer a few years ago. Because I'm the oldest sibling of 4 and the only one in Florida I have to check with her daily if she doesn't call me. But I can't hate her and I know I can't leave Florida. Since becoming unemployed after 33 years at the same job I am more available to her now -- her illness was the main reason I had to leave my job. I wasn't allowed time off to care for her and it made me miserable. I hope I didn't go too far off track. I just needed a sounding board. Thank you for listening. Of course I could very easily become like her and I hope there is somebody around who is as caring as myself to take of me. Carl
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I believe that no matter how nice and kind a person you are ... when you suffer long enough and hard enough it is going to change you. It has to. You are going to get in bad moods, get grouchy, angry and all the things that happen when we suffer a loss and losing your health and your youth are huge losses.
We have to give these people some kind understanding because we will, if we live long enough, one day be there also. And when that day comes, how would we want to be treated?
This does not apply to people who have been abusive and nasty all their lives and just continue to be that way. I am referring to the inevitable changes in personality that come with aging and ESPECAILLY ill health.

Betty Davis ... loosely quoted ... 'Aging Ain't for Sissies".
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I am an old woman and I have a little of both my parents in my personality but I really am very different. I have two adult children, I wasn't always the best parent but I must have done something right as they both love me.
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Is narcissism a mental illness? Not according to DSMIV4. It is an Axis2 diagnosis ... a personality disorder, but not a mental illness. And, no, you are not destined to end up like your parents. Personally, if they have dementia or Alzheimers, they are NOT responsible for their behavior because their brain is sick.
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I am seeing so many similarities between my grams and myself. I have asked the same question of me. She is a reflection of what can happen to me if I do not continue on my spiritual healing journey.

I believe by allowing ourselves to heal, learn to take better care of our health, mental, physical and emotional, we will follow in our parents and grandparents footsteps.

I know I do not want to live the pain and fear that drives such hate and anger. We do not have to be like our parents. We can heal our own wounds. I believe that once this begins, we change the future for ourselves and our children.

I wish you the best.
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As a retired Army Nurse and I have seen many deaths. There are many things to consider. as to their attitudes during this inevitable event. Some, who are on many type of medications can exhibit side effects, which run the gambit from calm to the volatile. Some, as in dementia may have no memory from one moment to the next and like wise can be mean then nice. Many who have not accepted their impending death may be angry, hopeless, no control and lash out at the very people they love most. Those loved ones can not understand a person who has been nice becomes a tyrant. Some people just deny the process and once again, in their anger stick out. Constant pain can bring out the worse in anybody. On the other end of the pendulum are those who have accepted the inevitable and are calm, loving, and talk to their loved ones as to how they are feeling. Many have lost any shred of dignity, must be helped with there bath, and leave them naked for others to clean their most intimate area which leads to embarrassment and a total loss of dependence. Those who have a God of their understanding, and feel there is life after death can even be grateful, as they see a future without pain, suffering and see that they will be going to a much better place. Many believe this is a natural process and see a new spiritual beginning. The bottom line to all of this? Each person dying may exhibit an array of emotions, due to their medications, their beliefs, how they have lived, if they are remorseful, guilt ridden, and may be in incredible pain. The people/loved ones, left behind, are on an emotional roller costar. The family can have feelings from empathy to no love at all toward the person dying. And that all depends on how close the family have been over a course of decades. The children now take care of their parents and this my friends is the circle of life. We come into this world with nothing and we leave with nothing. It can be seen as a time of rejoicing or a time of upheaval. Patience is a virtue. Love is forever. How we die is an individual process. A very normal process we will all face. There is no crystal ball as to how we will handle our own death and we do not know how we will act until faced with our own immortality. Those in the process of dying, can be loved. Some may die alone. Some have no one left to love. The care givers are tired, depressed, and are in a constant state of grieving and have feelings of guilt arising to their own anger towards the dying person. If you are a family of faith in God. You must let go and let God. And prayer goes a long way for all concerned in coping with so many emotions. As hard as it may be just breath, slow down, and have faith, love and know that God is with you both. God bless. Sylvia
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I truly believe that some people become nasty and become abusive, mostly verbally, because they are having trouble accepting they are getting old and are not able to do and think the way they used to. They are losing control, hate being this way, and will lash out to anyone in the general area, especially family. There seems to be a control valve that activates when around other people, Dr.'s, old friends, church members, etc., are around, who think they are the most wonderful old lady/man there ever was. What is the cure? There is none. Maybe when they come to terms to what they cannot control will iron it out, maybe not. Doping them up is only a band aide until the ineffable happens. If someone else has the answers or fix it solution, please share. All we can do, for now, is deal with as much as we can take and take some break time away from the situation.
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Except in cases of organic brain disease, it's been my experience that snarky individuals just get snarkier with age. That is, our worst personality traits tend to become "reinforced" with the aging process. This process may be compounded by mental illness such as schizophrenia, borderline personality disorder, etc.

However, I have also observed that innately resilient individuals seem to "weather the storms" of old age better than those who do not possess spiritual resources. (I am not talking about religion here - spiritual resources are something different.) When a person has never developed coping skills along the way, they sometimes become impossible personalities by the time they are senior citizens.
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You all give such wonderful, insightful feedback! Like most of yours, my parents grew up during the Depression where there was nothing to be had. Alcoholism runs rampant on both sides, so at least I've had a heads up. Between having nothing and worrying about abusive fathers, I kind of understand my parents; my dad died of alcoholism almost 40 years ago and my mother was a very emotionally abusive and narcissistic individual until her stroke last year. But, I have taken the lessons and tried to make sure I don't end up like either one of them. I went "back home" to my faith last year and it has given me the strength to take better care of myself and have more compassion for my mother. I don't like taking a lot of pharmaceuticals (I found some wonderful herbal remedies for stress), but I do understand that for some people they are medically necessary....the most important lesson I have learned from my parents' fates is to Take Care of You which includes learning to forgive yourself for past sins. I really think that is a big part of why many people late in life start to lash out at others...they are full of self-loathing and they are running out of time.
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The truth is the truth, if you were born an apple you will die an apple. Look at Ronald Regan, by the time he passed he didn't know his own wife Nancy. I'm sure that man took great care of his mental health, we just don't know. I would like to let you know that I am helping in the care of my 92 year old father who suffers with dementia.
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WeAreOne-my heart goes out to you- because, having lived with an alcoholic husband for 13 years, I know where you are coming from- AlAnon was my lifeline too- and I learned the coping skills and how to reclaim my life for myself through them....Alcoholism is an insidious illness that not only rots the braincells of the sufferer, but affects their views and behaviour towards the rest of humanity. Bless you for caring, and trying so hard to make your own self the way you are!!! BTW- my ex-husband didn't drink for the last 8 years of our marriage, but was what is called a 'dry drunk'- in other words, he still behaved as though he was on the sauce....not a great trip for those who lived with him... my life truly began again when I divorced from him...although you can't 'divorce' your father, you CAN use your boundaries as a shield against his hateful behaviour, and feel the love from all who care for you- include me as one, please. x
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I'm really satisfied with the gene pool I swim in. I'll be pleased if I have my mother's personality if I reach her current age. My dad had some mental health issues and he dealt with them as best he could with the resources available to him. I'm dealing with mine more successfully and I have a lot more resources to call upon.

I'm glad many posters pointed out to you, WeAreOne, that you have already differentiated yourself from your problematic father. You are dealing with your issues in a constructive way.

I think we can't control the genes we receive. We can only play the hands that we are dealt. But even a bad example can help us learn how to play our hands well.
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be kind if you want . my kid smokes 500. 00 bucks worth of pot a month and he owes me 362 00 . this is aside from the thousands hed somehow justified screwing me out of . i want that 362.00 and he'll rot in h*ll as far as im concerned if i dont get it back . yea, you get screwed enough you get bent if not bitter ..
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Moving up, you sound exactly like me. I have a strong, strong curiosity drive, and I always thought it was because my parents never explained anything to me. They never sat down and talked to me to give me some wisdom or knowledge. Maybe your mom is a narcissist because of all the self absorbtion; I know that my dad is. There is nothing outside his own little world to him. He is and always has been wrapped up in himself and doesn't think of others. Before my mom died, I used to hear her telling that to him all the time.
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