How do I enforce the no driving rule and the no guns rule?

Dear Scared; I really feel for you. If you are, as you say, scared, you need to get out of this situation and keep yourself safe.

Oh my gosh. I am so sorry for your situation. I talked to my physician when I was worried about a parent still driving and they told me that in our state, you can make an anonymous phone call to the police department re: your concerns for an elderly driver and they WILL follow through. They make the person come in, take a driving test, etc., and at least you are not the one that gets blamed for the person not being able to drive anymore. Your situation sounds quite dire though, and it doesn't seem that you have the time for all of that. So sorry, will keep you in my thoughts. Please take care of yourself. You have to do whatever you need to, for your own safety.

Yes call the police dept to do the enforcing. I told my husband he had to get rid of the guns. I have them hidden and I want to sell one of them. It is a German Lugar and I have been told it is worth at least $2000. I could really use that cash right now! The police dept told me I would have to bring the person to the station to register the gun. I am still trying to figure out how to get rid of it. I definitely don't want it in the house.

When the doctor told my Dad that he could not drive or have guns in the house(he had shot his gun in the living room into the ceiling and my brother was setting there) Dad went wild. We did call the sheriff and he had a long talk with Dad which seemed to calm him plus I got some medicine for him to calm his irritation. You truly need to call the doctor before the appt and have him put on medicine for irritation. Can you have the doctor call in a prescription so you can get him started on it before the doctors visit? Also, please visit your police/sheriff dept and tell them what is happening so they can be alert to any problems.
And PLEASE protect yourself from harm!
Sorry you are having such a hard time..it's not easy for sure. Prayers & Hugs!

Thank you everyone for your suggestions...I really like the idea of taking the guns to a gunsmith and having them disabled, but I think my husband is too smart for that...at least at this point. Sometime in the future, he might not be. The doctor has said he will be the "heavy" about both issues, but as I said, I'm the one who has to come home alone with him. I suspect my husband will "pay lip service" to the doctor about the driving issue while we are there and everyone will think all is well. The other issue will be highly sensitive, but my husband may keep his cool while we are there, but not afterwards. The OT-ist has broached this subject with him before, and he took an instant dislike to her. He just doesn't think there is anything wrong with him. He doesn't need grab bars in the shower or a shower seat, yet he complains every time he showers that it is slippery and he doesn't want to shower or wash his hair for days on end. I try to tell him that we (the OT-ist and I) are only thinking of HIS safety. I might as well talk to the wall. He is stubborn as a mule; always has been. It's just far more intense that it was..he gets angry much more easily I will keep all your ideas and suggestions in mind, and may even discuss them with the doctor. I am just so worried about what tomorrow will bring. Tonight was bad enough when he wouldn't take his evening pills again. Insisted he already had. I told him fine and put them away, but he kept right on yelling and telling me I think I'm so perfect, all the while pounding on the counter top. I just walked away and took a shower...anything to get away from him. Sometimes I just cannot face it. I'm sure you all know what I mean. Thank you, too, for your prayers and concerns. I truly appreciate both. Take care and God bless.

Given your husband's temper and not being cooperative, I would ask the doctor if there are pills which might lessen his emotional outburst. They are not nice for you and can't be doing him any good physically either. He needs to be able to peacefully co exist in your home. You should not be scared in your own home.

Elizabeth

You are so right, Elizabeth. Thank you.

dear Scared my heart goes out to you... I know you are in a very tough position! Do you have a "church family"? Maybe one of the older gentleman could come and spend some time with your husband or take him out for coffee. I think that hiding keys and disabling the car may be your only choice as far as driving goes! I would encourage you to get a hold of your local police or sheriff's department for some help with the gun issue. Do you think if you contacted his sons they would come and take the guns??? Do you have a support group available to you? I would encourage you to get involved. Support is vital to get through this... take care and I will be praying for you also!!!

I'm thinking of you today, Scared. Check in with us when you get a chance. We care!

If you are this frightened, it won't be enough to get rid of the car and the guns. After you ask law enforcement to help get rid of both of those things, which you need to do for the safety of everyone living around your husband, you just need to leave. Drop all the responsibility into the laps of your sons who are refusing to help, and just walk away. There is no marriage where there is fear.

This may not help Scared, because it is a proactive approach and she needs immediate action. But I'd like to share my experience in hopes it will help someone.

My husband was diagnosed with Lewy Body Dementia four years ago, when he was 57. He was a delivery guy for most of his life and a wannabe cop (went to the academy twice, but didn't get hired). So, he loved driving and was hypervigilant regarding safety, i.e. needed to have a gun to protect us.

When he was diagnosed, I told him we needed to make sure he was safe to drive, because now that he had a diagnois of dementia, if he got in an accident it will be an issue, even if it wasn't his fault, and may not cover us, if it was his fault. The medical center we went to had equipment that could test him and he was cleared to drive, if he was familar with the area or if there wasn't a lot of traffic, i.e. our small town and on the interstate highway between cities (we live out west). Then I frequently asked him how he felt he was doing with his driving. One year in, HE DECIDED he couldn't do the interstate and later that year couldn't do our small town. What worried me was that there have been times he thought he had still been driving. When I reminded him that he had given it up, he didn't remember. So, I got keys that look like our car keys and put them on his ring. Key makers have blanks that they can make look like they work, but don't. That solved that problem, SO FAR.

The gun was a little more difficult. He has vivid night terrors, and has actually gotten out of bed fighting/punching someone who wasn't there. I told him that in such a state he might get the gun and shoot me by accident, but he swore that would never happen. So, I "accidently" left the box of bullets at my sisters when we were visiting. Yes he traveled with a gun and a lot of ammo. When he wanted to buy more, I admitted that I still had the quick loader, but I would COMPROMISE and allow it in the house if I was the only one who knew where it was, because it was my life on the line not just his, and we have an alarm system that would give us enough warning to load the gun. He still doesn't like this, but he doesn't have car keys that work so he can't go buy more, and he'll NEVER find the bullets.

Believe it or not, this was all accomplished in a courteous manner. Again, because I was proactive. When he was first diagnosed, he started being verbally abusive. I knew he was angry about the disease and gave him some time to adjust, but after a few times I had enough. I told him that I knew he was angry, but I didn't do this to him, and I was angry too, because the disease was affecting me too. He may have the disease, but I was having to deal with it too, but I was willing to stay and help him as long as he treated me with respect. Since then, if he gets cranky before it gets abusive, I immediately call him on it, and he appologizes. I do the same, when I get cranky.

I know that with dementia there may come a time when all bets are off. But I STRONGLY feel that, if you talk about these things and talk about it often, when they still have some sense it helps them accept things a LITTLE better. We have even had the discussion that there may come a day, when I can't take care of him at home. We'll see how that one goes over, when the time comes.

I am almost embarrassed to report that NOTHING was done today. The doctor said NOTHING to my husband about driving or the guns! After stressing myself out for the last 6 days, NOTHING was done! I left the doctor's office more stressed and confused than when I went in. when I was able to call the office, I left a msg for his asst to call me because I couldn't figure out what was happening. she did call me back and told me the doctor wants us to see a clinical psychologist because he saw how stressed I was (I was crying in the office because I was so tense.) My husband sat and said NOTHING the whole time. The doctor explained that he does have Parkinson's and he does have Alzheimer's and everything I am doing for him is to help him. I briefly had the chance to explain how my husband refuses to take his meds at night sometimes because he insists he already did take them. No amount of reasoning or physical proof changes his mind. He yells at me. I just leave the room. I can't deal with that verbal assault for no reason. I think this is why the doctor wants us to see the psychologist. I did tell him that I seriously doubted my husband would go because he doesn't believe in psychologists...or that anyone needs this kind of help...he thinks it's a sign of weakness, a "cop out" and a way for the doctor to make a bundle of money. (been down this road before years ago when I was going to a counselor because of some medical issues of my own). We'll see. In the meantime, I am treading water, walking on egg shells and hoping against hope that I can keep him from driving. Thank you all for caring and commenting. I will keep you posted as this situation continues to develop.

I am sorry you had all that stress today, but I can understand the doctor's decision. Do you have an appointment with a psychologist?

In a way you do have the ultimate power here. If he doesn't believe in psychologists and won't go, that is fine, but the alternative is to not live with you. If he wants to stay at home, he needs to do what you and his doctor determine is best for him.

Do keep us informed.

Scared, There just isn't an easy answer for this one. I had to take Dad's car keys and I became the child from hell. It would have been easy to just give them back but my strength came from knowing I couldn't face a family that my father might hurt or worse because I couldn't muster the stress of him being mad at me. As far as the guns I'd remove the ammunition from the home and if it's for safety just the appearance of the gun would be a deterrent to a would be robber (there are always blanks) and if possible enlist the help of the police. I never thought of this until now but I wonder if you purchased a medical alert system for your phone (help I've fallen and I can't get up) if you would feel safer wearing a button you could push if he ever became violent. They could summon the police and if they supplied you with two necklaces he could have one thinking it was for his medical use. Just a wild thought. I along with others here will keep you in our prayers and God bless!

Dear Scared; It sounds like the doctor is worried about YOU, which WE all are. As others have pointed out, you are in an untenable, abusive situation and your best option right now is to leave and get somewhere safe.

I feel like the doctor copped out because HE didn't want to do it.

PamelaSue, could very well be. I am going to wait and see what happens when we see the clinical psychologist he recommended, even if it's only for a couple of sessions because if Medicare won't pay for it, we can't go because we can't afford it.

Scared, I'm sure you are disappointed that these issues weren't addressed by the doctor, who should have done it IMHO. I don't understand doctors at times. Surely the phychologist is going to do the job. If you weren't suffering from enough anxiety! Someone needs to "man up" and pronto to help you and your husband. I know I speak for most of us on AC when I say you need a support system and we hope you consider us for the job, even if we can't physically be there to do it. I'm wishing you peace.

Maybe the doctor didn't say anything about it out of concern for your safety once you left his/her office and were alone with your husband??? Actually I'm surprised the doctor had even considered saying anything. We run into these types of situations all the time, and we find very few doctors who are willing to step up to the plate to tell a patient they can no longer drive or have weapons in the home. Even when a doctor has told someone that, some people will ignore him/her and will drive without having a license.

A psychologist may not be able to do anything directly about the guns unless there's an imminent threat to someone's life....not a "maybe"...not a "high risk", but imminent. This could be your husband telling you he's going to kill you or someone else...or himself. He could then be taken in, involuntarily, for a psychiatric assessment. The mental health code is very specific about what can and can't be done under what conditions. Even if your husband refuses to go to the psychologist I think you should still go and get some support for yourself.

As someone mentioned, you may want to set a limit with your husband telling him you're not willing to put up with his anger outbursts being directed towards you anymore, and that you will leave if it continues. But, don't say it if you're not prepared to go...even if it's to a domestic violence shelter or to a friend's/family for a few days.

I hope when the Doctor says no more driving or guns that your husband will listen and respond appropriately. However, from what you've said about how your husband has reacted to other things like denying he needs to use grab bars in the shower and take his pills...he may deny in order to do what he wants, or not do what he doesn't want to do. It will depend on the value or importance of the driving and guns in his life and the need to stay in control. My mother, in her 80s and with early dementia was told she couldn't drive any longer after a minor, but avoidable accident. She actually dealt with that fine, because she still had transportation...my father could drive her around. However, she was stubborn about using a walker, eventhough she was having difficulty walking and had fallen several times. Her doctor told her, more than once, she needed to use a walker or cane. Family members told her several times, as well. But she refused and would make-up stories that supported her reasoning for not using a walker...such as people she knows that were actually injured or died because they used a walker. Reminding her that the doctor recommended she use one, didn't work either. She would deny that he did so. Or, say she didn't remember. She would go to great lengths to protect her choice to not use a walker or cane, to stay in control, even though she continued to fall and eventually broke an arm that never fully healed and just added to her mobility problems. The falling, she would always blame on something or someone else, but not herself. She had a deep, long time conclusion that only elderly or frail people use walkers, and she didn't want to be looked upon as a member of that club. She never did use a walker or cane.

So, most comments here have been focused on how to prevent your husband from getting angry at you. But, just as important or problematic is... will your husband heed his doctor's advise, and no longer have driving or guns in his life? He may very well not acknowledge what the doctor says or follow-though with his recommendations/orders. I would give your husband the opportunity to follow doctor's orders, but if he doesn't show any signs of doing so, then for his safety and others, including you, you must make sure the keys and guns are out of his reach. If I were you, I might remind him once what the doc said...but I would not become a nag about it, which would add to his anxiety. That's the first step. If it comes to you removing the keys/car and guns and he doesn't take it well or becomes violent, then your next step is to get out.

Please keep us informed of the situation and good luck to you.

I would also call the doctor back and discuss this issue with him in private. You need to KNOW, not guess at what his motives are.

I like the "talk with the Doc before your husbands Doc appointment--even if you have to schedule an appointment alone, at least a week ahead of hubbies appointment.
Write a letter that can be inserted into his medical files, that line-items his behaviors--those you observe that show his confusion, anger outbursts; use words to tell the Doc how severe they have gotten in hte past, and so far; include if he is a war veteran--if he has a history of brain injuries, PTSD, etc. those are important for the Doctor to understand, and how those manifest in your husband.

Could try: get same lock device "boots" that police use to disable the cars, only to his car[s]....he can commit his anger at those, that he can see, hopefully instead of at you---police may even help you do that.
OTherwise, you will have to keep taking crucial parts [battery, starter, fuses, chunk of wiring, etc.] off his car[s], to prevent them working, and make sure he never gets ahold of your car keys!

Do you know how to safely handle the guns in the house? IF not, find someone who can:
--remove the bolts, cylinders, or other key working parts from his guns, so the guns are inoperable; make sure no active bullets are in any of the chambers.
Replace bullets with a couple boxes of "dummy rounds" --it will all have the appearance that things are as they usually are, but they just don't work.
==That way, he has a sense of having his guns there, that nothing has been messed with, but they cannot be used.
Just hide the parts that make them work--we had to do that with my uncle--worked fine--he was confused enough that he didn't pursue finding new guns or ways to fix the existing ones.
OTH, we also tried mixing up all his car keys--lots of cars--lots of keys, scrambled them all--yet he still managed to find keys that worked, & take a car out driving....we even tried calling the local PD, to have them stop him DUI, but they didn't feel it was necessary! Since we were only there for a couple weeks, that was about all we could do then.

Since you are dealing with the above issues, it might be a good idea to collect important papers, store them in a safer place, too.
....it is common for confused elders--especially angry ones, to do weird things with important papers & equipment--bash, burn, drown, rip, shred, bury, etc. make them inaccessible for proper use.
...just hide them where he cannot access or damage them!

Once the Doc has recorded that he cannot drive, & cannot own guns/have them in the house, and hubby also at some level fears people learning of his limitations, hubby cannot easily replace missing items.

If you are in a small town, you can also post notices at local stores that sell guns, and car parts, warning them to avoid selling to your husband. Gun vendors usually take these notices seriously--not so much the car parts places, unless they are people you know.
Likewise, Dept. of Licensing for motor vehicles--notify them, so he cannot walk in and renew or replace his license.
Though, he could still have an official ID card--which can be handy, if he's still lucid enough for other transactions that require picture ID.

BUT, if he is not rational enough to peacefully understand why no guns and no driving, he's not likely fit to handle financial affairs, either--
--which means you also need to put those in some order that you are in charge of, without needing him
--do you have a POA yet?
Anything set up yet to protect your position to handle finances, medical decisions, etc?
Area Agency on Aging can help direct you to helps handling those, too. .

You already fear his behaviors--that is a huge cue!
A person changed by dementias or Alzheimer's often vents their anger at whoever is handy--their caregiver.
IF he's at the point where your health & welfare are compromised,
the Doctor has some responsibility to recommend your spouse be placed immediately into an Alzheimer's unit, for instance.
The Doc needs to have that understanding, clearly communicated to him, in advance! Your fear that he could become angry & violent, is valid, & needs to be included in the Doc's assessments of your Husbands abilities to:
stay at home, operate a car or have guns in the house.

No amount of love or skills can help, caring for a loved one at home who has become too angry or violent; once that starts, it will usually get worse, depending on the person's other abilities..
At some point, it is just necessary to move the person into a care facility that can better take care of them. Often, that point is really blurred as to when it needs done.
It might be helpful if you started looking for places before hand, so you at least have some information about alternatives you might use...
Area Agency on Aging nearest you, can help, too. .

Medications to limit violence are not always appropriate, or do not work adequately.
Restraints have been restricted to very few cases, & very governed use--meds that effectively restrain someone, are included in those laws.

Having a safe space you can run to for safety from him, is a good idea, too.
Have means to get back into a barricaded home, if hubby locks you out.
Be able to call for help if you get locked out.
Have backup plans!

If you live in a rural area, having at least one gun that hubby does not know of, that you can use for necessary protection, could be a good thing; it needs to be kept in a locked place he cannot access
--which makes it harder for you to use, too, but, might help against invaders/wild animals, etc.

This transition is very hard to go through. You are doing great work, so far!
Just keep a few steps ahead, putting things in order.
You also have a valuable item already on your side: the Doctor who has recognized your husband's problems, and is willing to document them
--Lots of elders escape diagnosis, when they are too good at "showtiimers".

Many prayers for you! Please keep us posted how things go!

I like the idea of dummy bullets. I will have to talk to someone who knows more about guns than I do, tho. It is a possibility. I don't believe I am in immediate danger, but with this disease, one never really knows. Thx for all the good ideas, prayers and caring. Means a lot to know that there are people who understand and care.

I'm not a gun expert, but I think blanks can kill too. I rememer years ago an actor, who was goofing around, put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger. It was a blank and it killed him. So maybe at a distance they don't, but how close is too close, if you're aiming at someone and you're fighting?

Dear Scared; You refer to "the disease"; I assume that you are speaking of dementia or Alzheimer's. Noone with either of these as a diagnosis should have access to firearms. You may not feel threatened at the moment, but be aware that folks with either of these can be mercurial and turn on a dime, against a loved one. Prevent a tragedy; figure out how to disarm or get rid of the guns. Hugs, and my prayers are with you. Ba8alou

correction, "no one with either of these"

My husband's primary doctor told me he shouldn't be driving as even an accident is not his fault the insurance would not pay when he has a diagnosis of Alzheimer's. His neurologist at first said she didn't want to take away his license because that was his last stance of independence and she doesn't like taking it away too soon as long as I was always in the car with him. Because I did tell both that he was a very safe driver and never made any judgement mistakes. My problem was he had no idea where we were going and I would have to keep telling him what lane to be in and repeat so many times where we were going and how to get there and it made me a wreck to be in the car. Finally one day when he was in the shower, I removed his car keys from his ring and the following day we went to the DMV to turn in his license (even though he really didn't understand what we were doing and frequently forgot that the doctor said he shouldn't drive and that he no longer had a license). It's been a few months and still he will ask "are you driving?" and I'll just say yes. He sometimes try to open the car lock with the house key and I will tell him that he's not supposed to drive anymore. In the 18 years we've been married I don't think prior to this illness I drove with him in the car more than 2 or 3 times. He always did the driving and I am sure this was a major issue with him to have me drive him around. But with time, it is getting easier and he does seem to be getting ok with the idea.
I am very sorry though that you fear him. That is something that had been bothering me too wondering if he would ever get that way (so far it's not happening). I think removing the bullets is a great idea at least. I would think as the illness gets worse, he's not going to remember what you do anyway?
Hang in there....

FYI: info from a military ammunition storage specialist:
Dummy bullets have --zero-- explosive charge in them--they are for looks only.
Blanks have a flash/bang charge that at proper distance should be harmless,
BUT, CAN, and have, caused injury and death if the flash/bang is too close to the targeted person.
A confused mind would still recognize the bullet shape, but, wouldn't be able to do anything but hold it, or put it into a gun--a dummy bullet will not fire.
BUT, better to remove critical parts from each gun--that assures they cannot be fired.
But the gun is still there to see--which lets anyone else in the house "off the hook" at least a bit. ...until they get mad at the missing parts or stoopid bullets not working!

Still waiting to hear back from the clinical psychologist's office about an appt because the one the dr recommended doesn't take Medicare, and I sure can't afford counseling! Things have been quiet the past few days, thank goodness, so I am hoping and praying I can maintain the calm until we get some answers. Thank you all for your comments and caring!

I had a similar situation with my Dad when it came to driving. In the intervention, he was told that if he did have an accident while under a dementia diagnosis, he stood to lose everything financially - it would have left his family uncared for. When this was explained, he did give up his keys - but wasn't happy about it. At least he understood.

As far as the guns go, can you just remove the bullets from the house?