Does anybody out there have a parent or in-law that acts like this? This came from an article I read about the spoilt brat / narcissist behavior. Please explain to me how you deal with this behavior and how much do you allow it to actually control your life before either just putting your foot down and saying enough and calling their bluff or backing away from the situation. I realize that they are our parents but when is enough just enough?
Re anger. I do think you need to feel the anger to heal. I went through a period some years ago of writing things out from the past and feeling my anger. I have shared much on here about how my mother and sis have treated me. It reinforces to me that I need to care for myself, and to be kind to me, as they have been anything but, and will be anything but. I think you have a good plan and you also have our support here. Others have posted here when facing a crisis with a narc and have received good advice and put it into practice. We are here to support you! I felt so alone as a child and for years dealing with the family narcs. Last year, I finally told a counsellor the dreadful thing mother said to me as a teenager that I had not told anyone. It was too shameful. It was good to get it out.
I am sorry you have had physical abuse too. I had a little of it and was afraid of mother physically for a while. (((((hugs))))
It's hard to write these things down because when I remember, I get very angry. But I think I need to get a bit angry. So from now on, every time the say something weird, I'll read my notes and remind myself about the horrific lies and bad behavior of the past, and take heart; before I start changing vacation plans and running to their help, I'll read my notes and wait before rushing to their side. Hugs
I don't know if this helps others, but this is what I've been doing the past few weeks: since I'm so prone to feel obligation and guilt and so easy to manipulate, especially when they cry or when they (say they) are sick, I decided to write down some of the terrible things my mother and brother have done/said to me. I
Oh Rena Lord love us and save us!!! - I think he's done his bit, don't you?!
Yes, we will get through this.
rena -re what will the neighbours think. lol That seems to be a driving force. I am glad your husband has gone NC. He is protecting himself and you too.
cm -your sil is a narc. That was a dreadful thing to do - so thoughtless - just using.
However, it still had the desired effect, as by the time I was through dealing with the upsets this caused, I was too tired to go. After I cottoned on to what she was doing, it took me a while to figure out how to deal with it, and I am still working on that.
One thing which is important is to not let them know what you are doing, that you are going on holiday or whatever, and don't let the golden child or anyone who will tattle know. It is a weird way to live. I have to keep information from my mother, and also from my sister (golden child) and from my niece (her daughter). Last summer, G and I holidayed to the Yukon. I didn't tell them, but made the mistake of posting some pics on face book which my niece saw and told sis, who I refuse to befriend on fb as she only uses what info she gets against me. Sis will always tell mother my business and will put a slant on it - like when I was young I told sis that a the guy kissed me. Sis translated that to mother that I was pregnant. Yes, that actually happened.. Triangulation is a big thing in our family. Yuck!
Anyway, when mother found out I was on holiday, she took a large amount of cash out of the bank and tried to fly east without proper ID. This caused quite a ruckus and she ended up in hospital (the airport staff handled it well). On the way home from holiday, I got frantic phone calls that mother was in hospital, sarcastic comments like "Was I or was I not POA and what was I going to do for the beloved grandmother" etc. It took up the rest of my summer meeting with hospital staff, ALF staff, and doing what I could to settle mother back down into her apartment and she was the centre of attention which was what she wanted. My sis went to Australia in the fall and mother sent out cards saying her liver was shot and she didn't have long to live. Not true, and another example of my sis passing on info to my mother and exaggerating it. A doc had said to me that mother's liver was not great, so I included that in one of the family updates. Big mistake. People live for years on much less liver function than mother has. But, it is the only one of her organs that doesn't test out perfectly normal except her brain! However, sis passed it on to mother, though I asked her not to, and mother used it.
With mother in hospital now, I have kept very quiet and told few people as that is mother's wishes. Sis found out by calling someone who has helped mother in the past. Sarcastic comments at me again, but the SW said she would be the go between, which takes the pressure off me. She has told sis that mother wants no contact. I am waiting for the fall out. It is like negotiating a mine field.
I told none of them that G and I were going to Florida in April, and sis was out of contact with mother at that point, and it was great - no crises. They do not know that G and I are moving towards marriage and will not know until afterwards. That means excluding cousins as I can't tell them and add the rider not to tell my sis. You do what you have to do.
rena - have your holiday no matter what happens. Do not do anything that will reinforce your mum's or bro's attention seeking behaviour. I wish I had learned this sooner. My daughter got that one very early and mother never played those games with her. Detach, detach, detach!!! Frankly, if mother dies before I see her again, I would be fine with that. These days there is such dysfunction and with a narcissist you cannot have a normal relationship. They use you for their "narcissistic supply" . Google that and you will see that you are being used, and if you are not available they will find someone else. All relationships with a narcissist are exploitive.
"The narcissist is a master at extracting the pulp and juice of others-their time, talent, creative ideas, energies-to serve his purpose alone...All relationships with narcissistic individuals are exploitive..." (From: Freeing Yourself from the Narcissist in Your Life by Linda Martinez-Lewi, PhD.
Free yourself. I know it takes work, and part of that is understanding what narcissism is and how narcissists work. Part of it is learning how to protect yourself and what measures to take. Part of it is accepting that your family members are not normal and grieving that. Acceptance is key.
Praying for you to have a good break with your hubby and no interruptions, or if the interruptions come you deal well with them. Look after you!!!
Hm. I was talking about this broad area with my daughter the other day. Just suppose, what if, the scales WERE to fall from an NPD's eyes? What would happen if in some terrifying moment of clarity they saw things from the normal, rational point of view?
Torment, no? It would be devastating, surely.
What does she want to talk to your husband about? Does she just want the triumph of "ha! I knew my charm would win him over eventually" or is there something she actually wants to say?
I'm just mulling over whether it's worth trying to resolve this, especially if it's still in some ways giving you grief because of her going on about it.
But oooooooh! That was a sneaky trick your brother pulled, eh? Ooo these people! I remember when mini-Narc SIL was over for one of her family visits/royal progresses years back: I worked from home, had three kids, it was the school holidays, and she wheedled on the 'phone about how her little boy "longed to see his cousins." So they arrive. SIL and her husband then act like it had all been arranged, and they were off to town to have lunch and go shopping...
Now, even when you're VERY angry, it takes a hard heart to disappoint a four year old who's been told he's going to spend the day with his auntie and his older cousins. I patted him on the head, then backed his father into the kitchen and told him between clenched teeth what I would do to his gonads if this EVER happened again. It didn't; but I still feel annoyed with myself that I didn't think to have my kids dressed up ready to go to town for lunch with their auntie and uncle and little cousin instead...
Moral: whenever they're planning something, think what they're proposing through to the end. You've got to get your retaliation in first!
Back to your post now...
My mother is very much like Linda's. If she doesn't get the attention she wants, she gets ...sick. Right now, as I'm preparing to go visit her in small dosages and I have put some vacation time with my husband in between the short visits, my mother is "thinking". I can see her game: she's trying to make me push/beg my husband to talk to her. Yesterday she was convinced that this is about to happen! She even congratulated herself by telling me how she was told when she was younger that she has "an amazing way to reach out to others and communicate"!!! Of course, she is wrong. She misread my politeness. I'm not even informing my DH who is NC with her for 2 years about this. So, I kind of have this dread feeling that once my mother sees that her plan didn't work, she will get sick so that my vacation will be ruined! What will I do, if I'm vacationing in an island and I get a phone call that mother is dying and she's in the hospital?
Four years ago, before I knew about NPD, I got a phone call by my narc brother (golden child) that mother is in the hospital and "I don't know what to advise you to do, but if you want to see her before she dies, you should come". I did go! A terrible trip from California to Athens that cost me thousands and, of course, I was crying all the way there. I found mother at the hospital surrounded by nurses and visitors and arguing with the doctor. I know now what happened: it was Easter time and Easter is even more important than Christmas in my country of origin. N Brother and family made plans to go on vacation for a week, leaving mother with her 24/7 home care and lots of relatives and friends. Mother got angry. To punish brother she got sick and went to the hospital. She had stomach complains that caused chest pain and of course, when a doctor sees a 90 year old with chest pains and demanding to be admitted, they do admit her to the hospital for observation. My N brother didn't know what to do! So he pulled this trick on me!!! and brought me from the opposite side of the globe to babysit mom and make her Easter more palatable. Mother stayed in the hospital for 2 days, had many tests, they didn't find anything wrong. Brother and family went on vacation! Mission accomplished.
I know all this now and still, my first reaction will be to believe her if she says she's unwell. I need to write down an action plan and have it ready in case I get "the phone call". I need to remember that both my husband and myself aren't in great health and we do need a few days of vacation. I must not allow mother to ruin it for us again. As I'm writing this down - your advise is excellent! - I see that if this had happened to someone else, my views would be different. It helps writing things down and imagining "that somebody else is recounting the story to you". Thank you. And hugs.
Okay, can we just stop the tape right there. Here is an absolutely classic example. I'm sorry to sound as if I'm annoyed with you - I absolutely am not, as will become clear - but I've got smoke coming out of my ears, here. Because this is BOLLOCKS.
Deep breath. Phew.
Now then. You were on the phone VERY GENTLY explaining to your mother that given your husband's illness this might be a good time for her to show some concern for you, if not for him. Anyone think that anything is unreasonable, harsh, unfair about that? No. Of course not.
What happens next is that your mother, faced with your temerity in putting a perfectly reasonable suggestion to her, actually gets ill at the mere thought of it. The mere scintilla of doubt as to whether the universe in fact revolves around her makes her physically ill.
And this is YOUR fault???
No it bloody isn't!
I really do wonder if swapping mothers might help. The programming is just awful. I'm not in favour of delivering short, sharp shocks to very elderly ladies, no matter how appalling their attitudes or behaviour; but as they become more dependent on others the fact is that they will be living in the real world whether they like it or not, and it will be to their benefit to adjust gradually to that. Objectivity is needed, that's what I'm getting at. So how do you lay your hands on objectivity if your mother has handcuffed you?
Have you tried this, would it help? - in a situation like this, jot down notes about it and imagine that somebody else is recounting the story to you. Would you see it differently?
Linda: Oh boy, I have a lot of stories like that. (regarding your daughter meeting her husband, etc.) My daughter likes having a relationship with her grandmother, but she caught on to her behavior, all on her own.
The years my daughter was in middle and high school, when my mother asked about what my daughter was doing in school, she would make comparisons to herself or my sister. There was a lot of: "I remember when your sister did that!" My daughter was good in a subject, well, mom was good in the same subject! (well so was I!) My daughter took a couple of years of a language, well, mom did too! (well so did I!) My daughter has a lot of creative talents and using them in college, well, she must've gotten that from mom, who did those creative things in elementary school. (75 years ago!) My mother has never, ever made a reference to me, since I'm my daughter's mother, what I was good at, what my daughter must've gotten from me. The references have always been herself and my sister.
Countrymouse, I'm so sorry to hear about your SIL. Poor thing! I'm so happy to have this blog. A huge hug to all
The hard part for me: I can't quite swallow to let her off the hook. I have not forgiven her yet. I get furious just thinking about it. I hate that she "got away with it" while she berates her dutiful daughter constantly (in the past and now). How can I give her forgiveness or love or understanding? I am a stone around her, and am very happy when I am not with her. That's where my soul is stalled.
I highly recommend the read.
two cents ¢¢
Best of all Sanjay...
two cents ¢¢
So, I suppose I'm trying to say, don't be afraid that you haven't completed your - journey? Recovery? Escape? Unilateral Declaration of Independence?! - well, don't regret that you're not there yet. The important thing is that you are in the process of making change happen. A bit like gardening, I suppose. You're not meant ever actually to finish it.
I think another thing that I, and I know other people too who watch NPD-infected relationships from behind glass, find hard to understand is why anger isn't a more frequently used weapon. You talk about your guilt at not being with your mother on the anniversary of your father's death. Ok. But so why aren't you angry - absolutely feckin' livid, in fact - that circumstances not of your making prevent you from marking your father's passing as you would choose to?
Now, I get that anger doesn't seem to be your friend, or that of many NPD survivors; but my goodness on this side of the glass we do feel it for you.
Thank you to Emjo and Rena for kind words about Lovely SIL. I really am worried about her at the moment, having rung her to see how she is. She's been signed off work for 6 weeks, having auditory hallucinations. She's been ill since 1986 - a spectacular psychotic episode involving a 150 mile journey at 70mph all the way while she continually tried to exit the car, which I'm sure is branded on my ex's memory - but managing well with medication for many years. What's combining at the moment is MIL's borderline dementia (and adamant refusal to undergo assessment, of course), insane stress at work and the imminent arrival of mini-Narc SIL for a month's visit. I haven't pointed the problematic conjunction out to her because the idea that MIL and SIL are anything but a joy and a pleasure goes down very badly and makes her even more stressed, so I'm only allowed to sympathise about the work stress. Except that the obvious thing to do about that, is to seek a less pressurised position (she leads a large service for adults with learning disabilities, and is being asked to double her team's workload and halve its number of people: a policy almost designed to drive them all to drink or nervous breakdown), which of course I can't suggest because it might lead her by the short route to full-time caregiving responsibility for MIL.
So. When enough is definitely enough of a narcissistic parent and all her works, how does one start to extricate the scapegoat?