When is enough enough with narcissistic parents?

Hi everyone. Been gone for a while. I did read over the posts, and one thing I'd like to say is that this is an extremely supportive group of people. The "anonymous" posts seemed to be an attempt to veer us off track and right back to the deep guilt feelings we all know so well. I'd like to suggest when someone posts something of that nature we simply ignore it. It's easy to react, but trolls thrive on reaction. If "anonymous" does have issues similar to ours, she/he will come back, apologize for the judgmental nature of the initial postings.

It's been 5 weeks since I confronted Darling Mother, and, for someone who "worries" about me all the time (can anyone say 'make Sanjay feel guilty because mommy worries) there has been (blissfully) no contact from either her or the golden boy.

One thing I'm discovering in therapy is that this had more of an effect on me than I realized. I'm suddenly having memories out the wazoo. As I was going over the history of my life with my therapist, it occurred to me that I have no memory of my life from 9th grade until I quit college. Dad was abusive too, and no doubt that contributes.

I'm not a mom, so here's what I'm wondering. Isn't protecting the cubs the most natural thing for a mother to do? To stand up for her children against all else, even her husband? To flee when things become unbearable for her kids, to wrap them in her arms for comfort and assurance?

Years ago my younger brother (also tossed away by Dear Mama) told me that my dad hit me in the nose, causing it to bleed for hours. I don't recall that, but the time frame that little bro mentioned concurred with the time frame of my "going away." Little bro told me that Dear Mama knew about this, but would do nothing because "it didn't involve her."

In many ways I feel cheated. I feel cheated of the affection I deserved. I feel cheated of the protection I didn't have. I feel cheated of a family life that is not so dysfunctional that it should be a reality TV show.

I'm exploring myself in therapy and out of it. My therapist is slow to make suggestions, which is fantastic in more ways than one. This week I told him that I feel guilty because it's been 5 weeks since I have seen the egg donor. And I feel guilty that I think about her in that way, that she was nothing more in my life.

But why? It makes no sense that I feel guilty about ditching a woman who disappointed me my whole life. Who criticized, stood by when her children were physically and emotionally abused, who right up to the time I said good bye told me I was stupid, and, in essence, I don't count. While I'm working through things, I need to vent, and to someone besides my therapist.

Someone said that we don't have to live with the guilt. That we can just wipe it away. Oh I wish it was that easy. Sunday is the anniversary of my dad's death, and I feel guilty that I won't be there to be with her. Of course the golden boy and his wife are just around the corner and I'm sure they are overcompensating my absence, so she's not going to be alone. But still I feel this guilt. And then I feel guilty for feeling guilty lol.

Rena, I'm with you - I'm so ready to not feel guilty. Your mother sounds a lot like mine. Interesting though that she choose to be where the golden boy lives, so that she can give me grief about not visiting her often. Hand on the head, oh woe is me type whining. Now that I think about it - she is just like her mother (who she swore she'd never be like.) God spare me! Hopefully it skips every other generation!

So I'm trying to reclaim (or claim) my life. I'm trying to learn who I am, what I believe, what my values are. My therapist told me that's usually what teenagers do and since I missed my teenage years and someone else within took over, I'm going to be teenage like in my discoveries (in part.) I never felt free to be my own person, develop my own opinions, establish my own belief system, decide my own values. How sad is that for someone who's 58 and lived on her own for 36 years?

As much as moving on is where I want to be, I'm afraid I'm not there yet.

Judda and Bunny, I'm sending you both hugs. I'm in the same position. I'm so tired of this situation; it's either a rage with accusations, lies, and put downs or a drama where mother is neglected and nobody cares about her. One day she tells me she wishes to die and the next she asks me to buy her make up items. One day she remarks that it's a daughter's duty to take care of her mother when old, but when I remind her that my husband and I have offered her this, she says she'd rather be in a nursing home and be in her own country (unlike the traitor me who left) so that her beloved son (narc golden child) could go visit her even once a month! I'm so ready not to feel guilty!

Judda: I admire your ability to have any kind of relationship that works with your mother. I am too angry every time I hear from my mother. My brother who has been under psychiatric care for over 30 years and is married to a woman with BPD copes so well with the help of huge doses of anti-psychotic meds. It's great that we are able to share together with others who understand.
Blessings from bunny

I have learned to keep conversation to a minimum: yes, uh-huh, isn't that nice, oh good for you...Inside I feel like I am hurting her by being so distant, but if I try to get close to her she tears me up with her remarks, sarcasm, manipulative crap, and F.O.G horns (fear, obligation, guilt). I have to remember my mother is gone and will never return. What little times we had that were close are sadly over, as her mind swells with her own fears and concerns and tries to fight the end of her life with me as her target.

Countrymouse, in my opinion it is partly a coping mechanism (she needs to be liked, she needs to be loved, she has a soft spot for the young) and partly it is copying her mother. It has happened to me; as I was the youngest child and had no younger siblings or cousins, I learned my parenting from my mother. My adult kids had to talk to me about it, but it helped that I had learned about NPD. Your SIL is sincere, but it is hard for the young people; if she is versed in NPD, you could talk to her and it might be a great thing; otherwise, talk to the young people who are the recipients of these compliments.

middle - You are definitely not alone. My dad who was my nurturing parent died years ago. Essentially I lost my family then, as my sister and mother, who both have personality disorders, always ganged up on me and my dad. My mother had said things like that too - that I owe her. You could be very wise to be done once your dad goes. If I had known what I was getting into, I think I would have cut out long ago.

I found this site and when I read the posts. I find that I am not alone. My experience is so similar as others. my mother was never a person who hugged or kissed me. She never encouraged me. Now she keeps saying after all she has done for me I owe her. I help out for my father who was always good to me. The way I feel about her once dad is not with us I am DONE.

linda - yes, they always have to be in control and seen to be important. Sad really.

cm - maybe sil has narc tendencies too. Wildly enthusiastic indeed! I am sorry she is not well. It may be overcompensation. It is difficult, if not impossible to be normal around a narc - you have to detach to get back to normal. Backhanded compliments - yes. After a while you realise you are just being used.

sad - I sat there perhaps dutifully, certainly feeling that discretion was the better part of valour, listening to garbage. Eventually I learned to change the subject or leave. What a shame you turned into your own person - NOT! My sis is supposed to be an extension of mother, I know. I did not cooperate, but she will still be derogatory about sis when she feels like it. My daughter says what she wants to her grandmother too. I would not own anything regarding her visiting her g'ma or not - nothing to do with you really.

I looked up the life expectancy of vascular dementia. Mother is in the early stages and she is fine physically. 4-5 years as far as I can tell. I estimate a bit longer as mother is so fit, unless she has a stroke from high BP during one of her fits. I can hope. Terrible thing to say, I know, but she would like to be out of her own misery.

Wow - just shopped for a few hours - and look at all the posts! It is so sad that we all have such sad and painful memories of growing up and our self esteem. My mother (until her stroke) would bring up incidences of when I was a teenager or younger to try to shame me. Why I never blasted her is beyond me...I just sit there like the dutiful daughter I was groomed to be. I don't know if I ever shared this - but after reading Your Not Crazy, It's your Mother - I found my baby book - that she kept up until I was about 8. I was the perfect child until I was 7 - then all of a sudden I was too sensitive, too whiney, too this and that. I probably wasn't doing the worship mother thing and was becoming my own person. At that time my brother was 2 - so attention went to turning him into the "perfect child". hahaha! he turned out to be just like her. Sadly- I think my daughter has too. My daughter had always been able to say what she wanted to mom - and when my dad (who was wonderful) was passing she and mom got in a huge fight..and my daughter had not forgiven her. It honestly has been the last year or so that my daughter has gotten to be sympathetic towards my mother - yet does nothing or doesn't visit. I think it is to play on my guilt. Get stronger with one - weaker with another...

So funny too - how we all have a similar story about how our mothers are responsible for some great thing...raising children, grandchildren, fixing up couples, smarter and prettier than anyone...good grief!

Can anyone answer me this (sorry to harp on about SIL, but she's not been well and she's much on my mind): if you're the scapegoat daughter, do you tend to overcompensate for your mother? Ref the finding anything to criticise angle -

not to mention the back-handed compliment! OH MY GOD are they a speciality. "Darling! You've done it! - Finally you've lost weight!" was a real scorcher

- SIL goes the other way. E.g. one of the children does well in an exam becomes "Child X is a genius in whatever subject it was." Another studies Politics at college: "Child Y could be Prime Minister one day!" I mean, it's very sweet, and I used to find it endearing when the children were little and didn't have flourishing careers of their own already, thank you; but it's also a bit bonkers? She's not being insincere, just wildly overenthusiastic. Is this a compensation mechanism?

Emjo - exactly! I'm surprised she hasn't already spotted this one - either I've got to it in time :) or she imagines we all treat SIL as badly as she does and would just ignore her anxiety and distress, so it wouldn't work. High days and holy days are a three line whip, but they always have been and nobody minds that; it's when she gets to work on the children having to 'drop in' more that we'll need to watch it.

My mother repeatedly told people that she was responsible for bringing my daughter and her husband together. My daughter was fuming and so I called Mom on it. Truth was they'd been good friends since high school and all Mom did was comment to my daughter that he really looked handsome in his tux (it was at a wedding). She tried to take credit for my cooking until I started chiming in that I couldn't boil water when I married.

Well said, Linda .

This is a quote from a post on a blog I get about narcissists.

Narcissists Take Your Life Away
by Linda Martinez-Lewi, PhD

The narcissist is a master at extracting the pulp and juice of others-their time, talent, creative ideas, energies-to serve his (her) purpose alone...All relationships with narcissistic individuals are exploitive..." (From: Freeing Yourself from the Narcissist in Your Life ).

Rena, I think what's going on is that we are mere tools to achieve whatever end result they desire at that moment. When talking to others, they use us to either brag about, to elicit sympathy by portraying themselves as the victim, to gossip about because having information (even incorrect) is the currency they trade in. While they may brag on our accomplishments to others, they are dismissive about the same when talking with us because they need to keep feeling superior.

cm -be careful. They will go to any lengths to manipulate.

thx rena. Having a parent and a sib with similar disorders makes it much more difficult - then throw in a child as well. I do think we need to share. It is healing. It was sharing with someone a few years ago that I realised that I had been caregiving in various forms since I was quite young. Mother plays the victim too and gets upset if you don't take her side, and then the sh*t hits the fan. Mother labelled my sister as the pretty one and me as the smart one. But she threw in a curve which was that sometimes I was a little too smart. The first time I thought of myself as pretty was at my sister's wedding when my uncle gave me a hug and said I looked prettier than the bride. It was a moment I will never forget. I hadn't ever thought of myself as pretty. I still struggle with the childhood messages of being overweight and not good looking and needing to hide myself in oversized clothing. My daughter, for all her problems, several times in my life has given me a boost by giving me a nice outfit or by giving me positive feedback. It has helped.

Emjo, I hear you. It is not possible to have a normal relationship, indeed. I know the rages and the evil look. It was and still is scary. I know what you mean about our significant others not being able to understand fully; My husband now does, but it took him a while because he comes from a normal, loving family. That's why I love this blog! What stories we all have about our clothes and our looks. I can't remember myself getting any piece of clothing ever and not being careful to get something that would make me look thinner. And in retrospect I wasn't at all overweight! The more we talk about this, the more stories come to the surface for me; I think this is good. I have buried many things deep inside, but it's good to get them out. One thing I should strive for is take my mother (and my brother) a little more lightly and not as seriously as I do. Your mother calling you and calling you is so typical. Hugs

H'm. I don't worry about my kids' or Lovely Nephew 4's relationship with MIL - I think they have her sussed, though one daughter does have a tendency to be slightly too self-sacrificing.

But just thinking it through, I've spotted a chink in the armour - my SIL. If MIL were to use SIL (the scapegoat daughter, and how!) as intermediary, the children would find it much, much harder to keep up those nice healthy boundaries because they wouldn't want to hurt or disappoint their auntie, or get her into trouble. Thank you, wise and experienced people - I will ensure that everyone has the right hymn sheet learned by heart. Forewarned is forearmed.

looloo, I know! If this is was said in a comedic movie, it would get a lot of laughs! Another time, after she had put down my house as really looking bad, poorly designed, cheap materials, and going even further as to say the whole neighborhood reminds her of the free housing the government in her country provides for poor immigrants (btw, I -unfortunately- live in one of the most expensive cities in the country in a very pretty townhouse community where most residents have become good friends); then, a few days later, she was talking on the phone with a friend of hers describing her daughter's house (my house!) as a palace!!! Go figure!

palmtrees - my daughter has told me to drop the POA more than once. I agree a normal relationship of any kind is impossible. I see an evil side. As a teen and young adult there were times I was afraid for my life, literally. and barricaded my bedroom door. The rages, and that "evil" look were very scary.

rena - I have thought that too. If I knew back then what I know now, I would have cut contact. Jealousy was mentioned earlier. I have seen that in my mother and my sister, and also in my daughter who has narc tendencies. I could never figure it out till I realised it was the disorder. They have good lives. Why be jealous? They do have some tension between cutting you down, but wanting the world to know that they produced wonderful children. Mother used to tell me I would kill her with the way I was. Haven't been successful so far. ;p Mother would go on and on about my clothing, wanting to go shopping with me then sitting like a queen and commenting on what I tried on. I finally clued in years ago and refused to do this any more. She would give me the impression that she wanted to buy me something, but what she wanted was to make comments - and they weren't compliments. She often made cutting remarks -no matter how good I looked. I would get compliments at work and she would find something wrong with what I had on. She had very old fashioned clothing made for me when I was a teen. I will never forget one gunmetal dress - it was not suitable and was supposed to be a party dress, and another one that made me look like a prison warden - blue and white stripes. Finally I got old enough to go to a store and buy my own clothing. Again, I will never forget the first dress I bought - navy blue with white piping around the collar. I looked and felt pretty in it. I made myself some clothing that I felt good in. I think it still affects me. She wanted me to dress in oversized clothing. Not too many years ago we were in the a mall and I saw a sale in a leather store and had been wanting a black leather jacket. I was with mother and I guess I forget how she was. We went in and I tried on a few jackets. One was good, but she brought another sizes bigger - like a mans XL - and told me to try it on as the one I had on didn't fit properly. The staff were rolling their eyes. There was a cute "bad girl" biker chick jacket I liked and wish I had gotten. I don't wear the one got and may give it away -bad memories attached.

It is not good for our health and we need to do what we need to do to protect ourselves. G (sig other) is pretty understanding but he does not get the extent to which I get stressed. I have not answered the phone to mother for months, as she made 3 calls a day during the winter which were just plain crazy as her paranoia increased. It triggered my PTSD, I would listen to the voice mails in case there was anything that really needed to be dealt with. There were 2 real concerns out of all the calls. She doesn't call me any more, but has other people call me. I set the boundary that if she took her antipsychotic meds I would answer the phone, and if she didn't, I wouldn't. She is not taking it. Whew, I guess I needed to vent!!!

Rena58 -- I'm cracking up! Your mother challenging you to produce children as good as hers -- and you've already produced children! I think they need to feel so clever, to always have the last word, that sometimes they end up saying the most laughably ridiculous things.
Palmtrees1 - Your daughter is right. I remember realizing my mother had a real 'mean streak' but yes, evil is a good word too. And yes, there will come a day when her comments will sting a lot less.

Oh how funny loo loo. They think the world revolves around their heads.

After posting on this site about my mother's crazy comments I had a nice discussion with my daughter about her grand mother. You know one of the dumb "educated" ones. She explained my mother very well and told me that she sees a purely evil side to her. Tells me my mistake is trying to have a relationship with my mother and how it is not possible. The comment about the evil streak really hit home. I didn't realize that my daughter saw through her so well. My other two daughters have nothing to do with her at all.

Still sometimes it makes me sad that I can't have a relationship with my own mother. Maybe tomorrow will be better and I won't be hurt by her snide remarks.

looloo this is really amazing! Your mother is so similar to mine! Like yours, she likes to find something I'm not good at and proceed to make a point about how good she is! And about your dad, what a drama queen! This is exactly what my mother would say!
Another "funny" incident that comes to mind: Mother has gone out of her way to tell me to my face what a bad daughter/sister I am and how I'll have to live with my conscience when she dies and how she's ashamed of me. Nevertheless, her gigantic sense of competition got the best of her and one time out of the blue she said: "I have the best children in the world! Produce children like mine, if you can!" My children were already adults!

Lol, my mother went through a phase maybe about 7 or 8 years ago (before any dementia was evident), when she would comment maybe a half dozen times when I'd visit or call, how "They're really 'dumbing down' Jeopardy." Are they??? Because it's always pretty challenging for me. And even though she's never watched the show religiously, I've never seen her do anything more than passively watch. I've NEVER seen her jump in with an answer.
Another story she likes to tell which really turns my stomach -- when my father passed away in the hospital over 4 years ago, she insists that the nurses told her "he was waiting for you to arrive" (before he died) "to say goodbye." Gag me.

Wow! Both my mother and brother have cold blue eyes and when they are focusing on you and they also have this eerie little half smile ...run for your life!

sad1daughter, emjo I'm so grateful I have this blog. The lies and the badmouthing, the rages, and the put downs, the neediness, the drama. We need to get over this somehow. Honestly, knowing what I now know, I would have cut all contact with my mother many years ago. As it is now, I can't make myself do it because she is 94 and her golden child is a huge mess and he can't be there for her as he was up until a year ago or so.
All this pain we feel, the anguish, the stress, the Fear/Obligation/Guilt can't be good for our health. And it also affects our spouses and children. I haven't found a way to put all this out of my mind yet. I am at a much better shape than what I was in 2012, but I feel I have a long way to go. Hugs to all

Scotland is more uptight than England, if anything. Wearing slacks was frowned on, never mind being a lesbian. Gary knows different, lol. Yes, the "look" is scary. Mother has piercing china blue eyes - cold as ice at times. I don't remember a warm touch or hug from her as a child and I think may I got one or two awkward hugs as an adult. Thankfully my father was warm and affectionate.

Emjo - LOL - a lesbian eh? Well does Gary know? I bet that was a bit of a scandal in the 60's - don't know much about Scotland though.

That "look" is scary!

All very familiar. I know "the look" well. My mother once went to a family who were very good friends of mine and told them I was a lesbian. Not such an issue these days maybe, but in Scotland in the 60s it was, and also had no basis in fact. She was trying to defame me to take attention off her own bad behaviour. It didn't succeed - they knew me and her too well. (((((hugs)))) to all of us for surviving and being decent human beings