A little background information about my situation…four years ago it became clear that my in-laws could no longer care for themselves. MIL had advanced dementia and FIL was showing signs too. He was also becoming increasingly frail physically and having repeated UTIs. After one particularly nasty one which landed him in hospital for a week, we finally convinced him to move (they were living two hours away at the time). He absolutely refused to consider AL so we found a senior condo complex about 20 minutes away from us. It is a very nice place with a la carte services (nurse on site, etc.), as well as some included, such as light housekeeping. I quit my job and was over there usually 4-5 times per week, helping with cooking, cleaning, appointments (FIL has a LOT of them), laundry…the regular stuff.
After about two years of this, MILs dementia progressed to the point where she was becoming violent when sundowning. We begged FIL to let us place her in memory care but he refused. Finally, staff at the condo intervened and insisted that neither he nor she were safe with her there. They told us that they would have to get social services involved if we did not place her. This was enough to finally get FIL to relent. She went into a nice home but unfortunately fell after a few months there and broke her hip. She passed away about a year ago.
While I was caring for them, I was also taking courses for a career change and working part time. I also burned out. Shortly after MIL passed, my husband quit his job and started his own business. The main reason was so that he could be more available to help with his dad (his previous job required 3 hours of commuting per day, minimum).
My MIL had mental health issues before the dementia, but for the most part we got along. It was not fun taking care of her, but doable. FIL, unfortunately, is a different story. I know the word “narcissist” gets thrown around a lot lately, but I really think that if you look it up in the dictionary, you will find a picture of him. He is horribly racist, sexist, and mean. The last time he was hospitalized for a UTI and my husband went to pick up some things from his condo, they called me asking when he’d be back because of how nasty FIL was being to the nurses. He has been telling my husband that he is worthless for his entire life. If my husband backs away from him, he will sob and say he is sorry, then start the whole cycle again.
At this point, he has become so frail that it is difficult for him to walk. If one of us is over there, he will call within an hour of our leaving to demand that we come back. Sometimes because he is afraid of falling, other times because he wants a glass of water.
He is completely dependent on us. He really can’t do anything for himself any more. His dementia, however, is at a stage where he can usually “showtime” and seem lucid around doctors, etc. Around us, he often seems lucid as well, but other times he says that he’s trapped in a foreign country and can’t find his passport.
Here’s the thing…his doctor states that he has the right to make his own decisions about how to live his life since he is not yet incompetent. I do understand that. However, I don’t understand why he has the right to decide how we live OUR lives. He has completely consumed us and it will only get worse. He does not care what this is doing to us. He states that it is our duty to care for him, even though he never took part in caring for his parents. He will never agree to go into nursing care, which the nurse at his condo agrees is where he should be. Living with us is out of the question, even though that is now what he states that he wants. I do not like this man and if he moves in here, I know he will never leave and he will destroy my marriage. Most importantly, I also have a ten year old son who deserves to have a childhood.
I suppose my question is this: why do the rights of the caregiver matter so little? I believe that elders should be treated with respect, certainly, but not at the expense of others. I think that you get one life: your own. No-one has the right to lay claim on the lives of others, parent or not. Thanks for letting me vent.
Bella , I wish my husband would read forms like this but it is so not his thing. He would be furious if he knew that I posted here.
Mojo rod, I like that saying! I’ve been trying to get off the floor myself and had some success. For my husband it’s much harder. He has made some steps towards getting his father outside help. I know that it won’t last for long because really he needs to be in long-term care. I know the storm is coming and really I wish it would just get on with it already. Waiting for the crisis is almost worse than the crisis itself. Thanks for the responses!
" If you are tired of being walked on, get up off the floor."
FOG FOG FOG!!!!!!!!!
I took a nursing education class on depression and they might as well of had my husband as poster boy!
I begged him to get on medication, which he finally did, but them got off. He said, with his luck, the medicine would work but then they'd take it off the market! Is there any more negative thinking than that?
That's why he's an EX. After 35 years, I couldn't live with that black cloud hanging over my head any longer.
You just can't MAKE people happy. That's got to come from them.
Molly, don't you or hubby waste your time TRYING to make him happy. He won't change who he is.
FIL is MAD, through. If he could get out of his recliner he’d be hopping mad.
Send your husband here! He might benefit from reading that there are other folks subjected to the FOG!!
SueC, I have a similar story to yours. I’m also estranged from my alcoholic mother who is pretty much as nightmarish as FIL. You’re right that my husband is the one who needs to change things. He has hired caregivers to go in every day which at least is a step. He just has SUCH a hard time standing up to his dad, even getting s bit of outside help was big step for him. I understand that, since I was much the same with my mom. It’s great to have this forum with so many people who understand.
You might not like this response but, in my opinion, the only one that can change things is your husband. Unfortunately he is hog-tied in guilt, insecurity and a poor self image. Also unfortunate is the fact that he had a bad mental health experience with his mother and is not open to therapy. (I guess that would be the same for any self help books on the subject too?) Too bad.
Without a helping hand (a good therapist who specializes in this) your husband will be locked in the tyranny of your FIL. That evil man knows he has your husband by the b*lls and is using it to his advantage.
I broke free of the co-dependence I had on my dad. He was an alcoholic and had me "in his spell". My husband at the time had to get aggressive (he threw the phone in the fireplace) for me to see how sick our relationship was. That's when I went to therapy. I quit seeing and talking to my dad for 10 years! I wound up caring for him in his last years but, by then, he had a new respect for me.
All you can hope for is;
1. The place where FIL lives evicts him.
2. He will have an accident, land in the hospital and not be allowed to live unassisted.
3. Your husband will have read the many responses on this board (good idea) and have a change of heart, placing his mental and physical health and those of his family BEFORE his father's. He stands to loose his family (you and son) to accommodate an old, manipulative narcissist who purposely torments him. The ball is in his court.
Pray hard, be supportive only when hubby stands up for himself and the family and backs off with his dad and stick to your guns about not allowing FIL to move in with you.
I hope hubby realizes the mistakes he's making and sets down the law with his dad. If he can conquer this, life will be so much easier for him later.
Again.. you do not have to place yourself in an abusive situation. Enabling him to continue to be a jerk to your husband which affects you and your son, is NOT a loving thing to do for anyone.
The old dad needs professional care that you cannot give him. You and your family can see him or not anytime you want. That's the way to preserve the family tie to the dad, protect your son, and protect your marriage.
Blessings and good luck
Barb, I agree with you that the obligation to take care of my father-in-law is really in our heads. It’s really more my husband dealing with him now than me since I have stepped back quite a bit. It’s difficult for him to change.
Garden artist, wow! The people you have dealt with make FIL sound like a peach! And I know exactly what you mean, it does seem like the health professionals expect the families of elderly people to be constantly available to give whatever help is needed whenever it’s needed. I understand that their obligation is to their patients, but I wonder how willing they would be to do the same?
Cwillie, the CCAC has been coming to my father-in-law’s condo twice a day for the past few days and that will continue indefinitely. He is really not happy about it. His main complaints are that one of his caretakers is Asian and the other is Columbian. Good grief. They are going to monitor him to see how he is doing and helping with basic tasks. My husband is also in another appointment right now with the condo health people to arrange further care. That should help for time, but he really needs long-term care at this point, in my opinion.
Hope, my husband is the only child and that’s why we are responsible for taking care of my father-in-law. My husband does have power of attorney but since my father-in-law is still considered competent, he is not legally allowed to make any decision for him as of yet.
BalancedCaring, I have suggested taking my father-in-law to a dementia specialist but he refuses to go. We tried to have one come to the condo while back but he kicked the woman out.
RosePetal, what an inspiring story! If I had half the strength that you seem to have I would be very pleased with myself!
Enoughsaid, i’m having a hard enough time dealing with my father-in-law, I can’t imagine doing what you did for your cousin. Especially for seven years! I’m sorry she didn’t appreciate what you did for her.
Savitaa, I suspect what you described is what is going to have to happen. I’m pretty much expecting that after my father-in-law’s hospital stay we are going to have to tell them that he can’t come home on his own. The problem is it’s not up to me, it’s up to my husband. He’s the one buried in guilt and is having a really hard time dealing with it.
Isnteasy, I agree that we are basically the ones giving the power over to my father-in-law. At this point I have stepped back a lot and it’s me and then I husband who is dealing with him. I try to offer my husband support but there’s really not much I can do beyond that. It’s up to him to make his own decisions.
Linda 22, I agree that I need to be on the same page with my husband. He does seem to understand what needs to be done, I just seem to be having a really hard time doing it. He has arranged for some outside care, so that is a start. We both know that is just a Band-Aid and the real crisis is coming. Honestly I feel like we’re just in a holding pattern, waiting for the emergency that’s going to change everything.
Again thank you everyone for writing. I really appreciate it.
It's rough to have to find alternate care facilities on short notice before discharge. You could have some background work done before the next hospital stay. Research nearby facilities with the appropriate level of care.
Stay on this forum -- there's a wealth of information about how to deal with difficult parents.
I know this is easier said than done, but push has come to shove, so tell your FIL that your situation has changed and you will now be visiting him once a week and can help him with whatever he needs during your visit. Offer to help him find resources to meet his needs (Uber for doctors, home helpers for shopping, cleaning, etc...). Hopefully, he'll realize he needs AL.
Your situation feels helpless because you're looking at it from the inside. To a dispassionate observer, it's like this: if someone is hitting you over the head with a stick, do you just stand there and get beaten? Of course not, you take their stick or step away from them or call the police...you have lots of options, but first, you have to decide that you are not willing to be hit over the head with a stick.
He was on a rant and became paranoid (psych hold, possible harm to self or to others). 911 was called and he was taken to hospital.
We told social worker he was not allowed back to his IL apartment (true--they said he was out of control and couldn't handle him anymore).
The family worked and had no room in the home, he was then homeless. The hospital social worker HAD to help place him elsewhere. They gave us a list. They tried to intimidate us, yet we didn't back down.
We also worked with "A Place for Mom" (to narrow down the list), and drove around for 3-4 days looking at the facilities for the best fit. It was quick and really hard, yet it worked out great in the end.
Stay strong, stand firm, and make a change.
When I was a child I had a similar situation with my Mother. She would often lie to my aunts and uncles about how bad I was. So, of course I grew up believing I was stupid and a bad person. I felt everyone felt that way about me. My stepfather was a pedefile (sp?). She would create situations to prove that I was a bad girl. One example was on Christmas Eve. My Aunt and Uncle on my birth fathers' side were coming to visit and we were to exchange gifts. She wanted me to come at a time that my children were involved in a neighborhood activity. I explained that the children would be disappointed if they couldn't attend - they were looking forward to it. When we did arrive at my mothers' home everyone was upset with me because I was so late and they had to wait to eat because of me. My mother never mentioned having dinner to me. She had created another situation where I was the "bad girl" again. This is how I grew up. After I matured and was in therapy (with my husband) to try and save my marriage I continued to see the therapist for myself. It was the best thing I ever did!! She did not suggest what I did but helped me come to terms with my situation. I decided to stop seeing or talking to my mother. There was no argument - I just quit taking her phone calls or visiting her. I discussed it with no one but my therapist. I knew things would never change and I couldn't handle emotionally the dirty tricks she would play on me. So I stopped subjecting myself to it. Of course the family thinks I am the "bad" person. I continued relationship with my grandparents and aunts and uncles. My sister felt sorry for my Mother. It was the only way I could cope with life as it was. I raised three great boys and created the family I wished I had grown up with. I am so proud of them and my grandchildren. They all take good care of me in my old age. So I created the life I wanted to live and am a happy woman. Also when I decided to break off relations with my mother I had more confidence in myself and found other people thought I was a smart person. I began to "start things". I organized an Alumni Club for the graduates of my school. I refused the President job and volunteered to be the Treasurer. When my sons played high school football - I organized a Football Moms club. Again I refused to be President but I was the organizer. My oldest son will be 57 this year and the organization is still active.
After my children graduated from college - I started my own business. I was afraid at first so I took every job that came my way - in fact I was way more successful then I ever imagined. I retired at 65 with enough savings to take care of myself. I am a happy woman!
Get some help for yourself. You cannot change anyone else but you can change how to cope with life's problems.
Hang in There!!
Rose Petal
What stood out to me in your situation is that your FIL's doctor did not agree with you about the condition of FIL.
For years I had a similar situation with my Mom's doctor not 'seeing' the mental condition she was in, or the energy and time my husband and I had to give her just to keep up with her care.
I finally got wise and took Mom directly to be evaluated by a doctor specializing in dementia. He found that she was in mid-to-advance stages although she was smart enough to know when to 'showtime' her normal self. This step helped me greatly in moving her to the right memory care unit, bypassing her regular doctor who did not want to take responsibility in making that decision or diagnosis for her.
You and your family have a life to live and although it is hard to make decisions for another human being, there comes a time when your own emotional survival comes into play. All the best!
Anoni, we have spoken to his doctor. She is adamant that he is still capable of making his own decisions. She usually has some very “helpful” suggestions about what WE can do...essentially adding on more and more appointments with specialists to take him to.
His doctor is actually associated with his he condo where FIL lives. My husband has an appointment with the condo health staff to add some services on for FIL. He isn’t very happy about that, but too bad. We are hoping that the nurses will be able to back us up with his doctor regarding how bad he really is. He doesn’t show it to her. You would think, however, that doctors would know that how patients present themselves at a 15 minute appointment might not be how they are all of the time!
Grandma, I think you may be right about what will happen. Either the condo will call social services or the hospital will say he can’t be alone whenever he goes there next. I’ve told my husband to prepare himself for that. He says he knows but we shall see.
Lokiloki, he actually was on some medication for anxiety a while back. It was lorazepam. He had to be weaned off of it because he was abusing it. He would take double or sometimes triple the dose and would end up falling even more often. He has been off of the lorazepam for about six months now. He’s also on a cocktail of other medications which make antianxiety meds not the best idea.
Thanks for all of your responses!
I once knew a narc myself. He went so far as to get rides from a service reserved for critical patients who aren't expected to recover. This is pretty much an ambulance service. Well sure enough, the drivers were coming through our town one time and caught him up walking around town. The supervisor was immediately alerted and future rides were immediately cut off. He didn't realize this until he went to schedule a doctors appointment ride. He probably never needed this particular service only reserved for the most critical. He probably only needed an ambulette for ambulatory people. I didn't know very much about the rules about our critical life transport until the narc said something one day about losing his rides because he was caught up and walking around. However, there came a point where I started wondering if he really ever needed his wheelchair. Though I know some people have different levels of limits and disabilities, I can't help but wonder if he ever needed his prescribed power chair at all. I can only wonder. I know not everyone is fully dependent on them so this one is tricky. I know in the case of me and a friend of mine, we both have low back issues that limit our standing and walking. The only differences he has more health issues than I do, but each of us only depends part time on our chairs. Now in the case of the narc we both knew, this narc could actually walk all the way to the store and back with no problem. He had to be careful not to get caught walking around so he just popped into his chair when he thought someone may actually catch him up and about. I know that he said he had a knee issue, but that knee issue could've easily been solved by a simple knee sleeve if he really needed it. The downfall is though that you don't want to overly depend on bracing in order to keep muscles strong.
Anyway moving on to the next person I knew before he died, he got to where he would not take care of himself. He had asthma and COPD but neglected some of his breathing treatments. When do you got upset, he would just call the squad to take him to the hospital until it got to be pretty excessive. This took away from the squad of someone else who probably needed it more than he did. At some point, someone found out he may have been faking something because he went from coming home in an ambulance and on a stretcher to just coming home in a wheelchair. Yes, someone found him out and he was pretty much demanding just like your FIL. He went from enjoying a stretcher ride to being downsized to a simple fold up wheelchair. I think most of his problems could've been prevented had he only taken better care of himself when he had the chance. He could've kept up on his breathing treatments and he could've likely prevented internal infections and even got his shoulder well again by keeping up with his PT for his shoulder. I don't know why he neglected that unless he was slowly giving up or just putting on a show for attention. I started journaling to God about this person. I then had a dream he was abusing resources. I didn't know what the dream meant until I spoke with a fellow Christian friend of mine who was able to interpret the dream from hearing the description. It was sad how he went out when he finally died. He died shortly after being admitted to a nursing home. What's odd though is when the medical team at our hospital finally found out something was off about why he was frequenting the hospital, now I understand why he suddenly didn't like our hospital. I couldn't put all the pieces together until later when I found out what was really going on that I didn't see. There's what you see and what you don't seem. Just like Dr. Phil says, no matter how flat you make a pancake, it has two sides. That's why every story is like unto a pancake, there's what you see and then what you don't see. I'm kind of glad I didn't have a car when this particular man was living because he probably would've used me for a ride to a far away veterans hospital where the medical team may've been as unsuspecting as I was. Many things he did for attention and he wanted to go somewhere they didn't even know what he was up to. Yes, hindsight is a very good teacher and looking back I can honestly be thankful for not having a car because he would've most likely used me for a ride to Wade Park Hospital. One time he slipped up but I didn't know at that stage what was really going on or why. He slipped up by saying something about someone refusing him a ride, and because of that he said he destroyed one of their headlights on their car. At the time I didn't know what was really going on until pieces started coming together and now I think I know why he was refused a ride and no one would take him anywhere.
Another situation was his house. At some point his house burned down and he lost everything. He blamed his son for our son and even put a restraining order against him. I didn't know at the time this could've been a false accusation until I started finding some things out and realized he really didn't belong in a power chair or on a mobility scooter since he was blind. He totally destroyed his apartment and even caused the landlord to have to remove an electrical socket since the wires were showing. This was a socket that was low to the floor. After seeing the two gaping holes in two separate rooms of his very nice apartment, I realized the very possibility that this person most likely caused that fire and wrongfully blamed his son. The grandson only came around when he wanted money and the son would not have allowed the grandson to come around at all.
In your particular case, I think you're onto something there. Using hindsight from my own observations and encounters makes me realize you have a right to start asking questions and lots of them. There's a strong possibility the narc in your life may actually be putting on the same kind of show the people I used to know also put on. I started realizing there was a possible cause behind the one narcs girlfriends stroke and when he got a power chair, he got her started using one and something just didn't feel right about her getting a power chair but at the time I didn't know why. You may also need to be more observant and start learning like I had to because eventually hindsight will also teach you a few things you don't currently know. Later on you'll be able to put all the pieces together but it all starts with stepping back to see the big picture. Trust me when I say the pieces will come together because they really will. I didn't realize the possibility the elderly friend I would come to know would also have narcissistic traits to some level. It always seems like they always target the unsuspecting and especially those closest to them and you have every right to start asking some very serious questions and lots of them because you should speak up. I wouldn't do this without first having others around who were also victimized by this person you're dealing with. I would just step back and wash my hands of this situation and just quit getting involved. I would just drop this responsibility like a hot potato if I were you because by now you probably had some kind of odd feeling that something just feels a little off about some detail but you couldn't really put your finger on it and you didn't know why you had that feeling. Well, join the club because I've been there along with others who've been there. If something just doesn't feel right, that feeling is probably right. I should've known something wasn't right when one of the narcs I knew got a prescribed power chair only for his girlfriend to go into one immediately after he did. Something about that just didn't feel right but I ignored the feeling because I figured if a doctor prescribed the power chair, then the person must really need it. I didn't know the flipside of the situation at that time but eventually after that narc left she immediately started walking more and more and using that chair less and less.
There's something you described. You describe something about the narc in your life sobbing in crying and trying to apologize. It's nice when someone really means it and takes steps to change but with god's help. It's another thing when they just do this as a way to win you back, only to start the cycle all over again. What you're describing is a thing called "hoovering". Yep, you're being hoovered. He's trying to get you to come back and put up with his BS. If you're dumb enough to go back, you're dumb enough to get what's coming. I must warn you that this is a different type of abuse and it's an endless cycle that will never just go away as much as you may be trying to wish it away. Be not surprised or even shocked, this is not a passing incident, this is a cycle and can be a very dangerous one. If he happens to be violent, you really don't need to be there. Instead of getting any further involved with this particular person, take that time you would otherwise use with this case and invest it in your son since he needs the attention far worse than someone who is mistreating you. Your son has his whole life ahead of him whereas this other person is much older and even old enough to know better. I know this other person is just as precious to God as anyone else but there comes a time when you must step back and let whatever happens happen. Let social services get involved if they will. You can start that ball rolling by secretly recording what's really going on and then what's really going on at the doctors office. Video recording will tell APS everything they need to know to act appropriately. I would only go over there just long enough to get a secret recording and then one more from how he is for the doctor. Take those videos with you and use them as evidence when you speak to someone from APS. After that, cut off contact and just step back and let whatever happens happen. Sometimes there are just those situations where you just have to step back and let the cards fall where they will. If he constantly calls you, I would get a different phone and move all of my most important numbers to a new phone and only save numbers of the people you actually want to talk to. If your phone allows it, you can block the number from your FIL. If not, call your provider and let your provider do that for you. Sometimes you just have to switch phones and have a different number. Sometimes providers can actually change the number of the phone you're actually on. It just sounds to me like something definitely needs done for sure. You must be strong for your son, he needs you more than your FIL does. You're helping to shape the future because children are the future. Your child is still young and developing and you really don't need something like you're going through negatively affecting him at his tender young age when he's most vulnerable to permanent damage. Just think of your son right now, he needs you more than your FIL does. At least your son has a chance since his whole life is ahead of him and you want to see him succeed in life. Those days may very well be done for your FIL, so focus less on him and more on your son who needs you more. If you were FIL won't appreciate you, your son will
Elders are considered a vulnerable population and thus their rights are protected from governmental over-reaching. Caregivers are in theory able-bodied adults with the ability to protect themselves.
YOU have the right to say "no" to FIL, as does your husband. It's on the FOG that is keeping him from doing that.
You have no legal obligation to provide care for him. If any social worker tries to tell you that, gently laugh and tell her to find that in government regs. It's not there.
The obligation exists in our heads, not in law. So, we get to choose how much we do. If what is being asked of you is unreasonable and costs you too much in terms of mental health, family time, work time and money, then you say "no, can't do that dad".
And mean it.