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5 siblings and I have been trying to work out care for our parents (dementia, COPF with Dad, arthritis with Mom, both around 90) between us.Two have full time jobs, one had been needing to go back to work and two retired. Two have theirr own health issues. Not to mention our significant others/families.. It's been as much if not more stressful just trying to coordinate the schedule of care, and to agree on how much and what type of care is needed. Parents health decreases, needs increase. We added some pd.home care and adult day care just in time for one sib to need to drop out due to own health issues, three vacations coming up (two at same time). All wish to support parents to stay in own home. I'm on med for depression which is under control now, but all of this is stress is very difficult for me.
My father still lives independently but requires a great deal of assistance because of his dementia. I pay someone to help out 20 hours/week and I spend more time than that myself with him, making sure his needs are covered and he has company. I pay the bills, track investments, do all the shopping, cook meals, help with grooming, do laundry, manage healthcare/medications, clean up messes, track appointments, take him wherever he needs to go, etc. He has set up a joint checking account from which I can pay his expenses directly. That is helpful. I expense gas because his needs are the majority of my car use. I was paying out of my own pocket for awhile but tracking the receipts became overwhelming and my retirement savings have dwindled significantly as I did not expect to be out of work this long (4 years). Do not qualify for Medicare so I have to pay for my own health insurance. He would not be able to live independently if I worked FT and he is resisting assisted living, so I am trying to figure out a way to work PT. Siblings all work and are not willing to give up any of their free time to help out. He would "gift" me if I asked but I haven't. The federal limit on unreported gifting is $14,000. He wants to help me buy a car as mine is old and too small for him and his gear. I think the rest of the family understands this.
My Aunt died last year and allocated $1000 in her will to the executor of her will as payment for administration of her small estate. I think that was very fair. Took her 9 months with the assistance of a law firm to settle the estate, which I am told is normal.
Yes, freqflyer, my mother always "paid her way" for items I purchased for her, even if the item was of small value b/c she insisted on it. However, my mother's situation differed from mosts'. She had been a widow for 48 years. She died in 2014. She had 2 nickels with which to pay me for providing care.
Llamalover, no one is saying to bill a parent who has no money. Those who have parents who saved for those many "rainy days", if the parent offers payment for care some of us see no reason not to take up the offer. It's a win-win for both sides. Plus it makes the parent feel better about the whole situation.
My parents are always reimbursing me any time I use my own money to purchase something for them [not counting gifts]. Their parents did the same thing.
Thank you frequentflyer,JessieBelle, mindingourelders and lolokoko for persenting a balanced view on this subject. It always makes me cringe when people compare caring for a child with caring for an aging declining adult. As some of you have stated what we give up to keep our parents or other loved ones out of facilities can never truly be measured by money. That having been said when the choice is to either quit a job and care for mom or stay working and hire someone else, i know most parents would rather hire their family than a stranger. And the amount most people charge parents is way below market cost. We are not out to bankrupt our parents just cant bankrupt ourselves either. Each family has to decide what works for them. Just make sure you have your care contract in place so no one will question what you have been doing.
I looked up about the NY program and it sounds very good. I don't know who would qualify. I wonder if other states have similar programs. It may be worth looking. :)
Yes you can get paid and not from her money A caregiver (family member qualifies) gets paid a salary, social secuirty benfits, health insurance and vacation pay under community medicare Assets can be prtected and income chanelled thru a community trust its a federal program but each state has its own requirements I do it for clients in NY (im an attorney) and did it for my Mom and Aunt who died at home at 100 and 100+6months its a win win situation
Jazzyfox, it sounds like you and your parents have it worked out. I think that caring is a two-way (or multi-way) street in a family. Really we would expect a loving family to get together and work things out so that everyone is having needs met as well as they can be. Instead of that, sometimes we read catty remarks about a sibling enjoying free rent as a caregiver, never considering that they themselves wouldn't work for free rent alone. This is especially true if that place is only a room in an old house. A Utopian family would get together and ask what each could do, what each could contribute. Most families are far from that ideal, however.
A caregiving child may want to help the parent out of love, but the child still has to eat and pay bills for the remainder of their life. To ask someone to neglect their own needs is telling them to deny themselves of their own life and comfort. Loving parents wouldn't do this. Loving siblings wouldn't do this. I wouldn't expect it of anyone. If someone is financially comfortable, it would be fine to work full-time for free. If they aren't, then they can't afford to, nor should they be expected to. Love has to go both ways for it to work right.
Receiving payment from the parent is not a bad thing. If you are unable to work because of the responsibilities you've taken on, there's no problem. Good point about being a caregiver outside of the family. Many good points being made in this discussion. In my present state, if they didn't pay me I would not be able to care for them. My job is 24/7 and though I'm trying to get my business off the ground, I still do many of the chores such as driving, housework because neither parent is able to. I should add that when I first moved in with them I had no idea I would get paid. So far, it has worked out to our mutual benefit.
I have been taking care of my 92 yr old mom (who is in moderate dementia now) for the last 2 1/2 years in my home. I have 2 older brothers who live in California and who were supposed to fly out and stay with Mom when I had events that I had to attend, roughly 4 or 5 times a year. One of my brothers has been wonderful about it, even though he has used up all his vacation time doing so, and hasn't really the funds to make several trips out here. The oldest brother has many, many weeks of vacation time and more than enough money to come out whenever I need him. However, he is the one only comes out once a year, complains about everything, including my house (We live in an old farm/ranchhouse in the country) and everything in it is old and needs repair. I do the best I can and have made up a nice room for them to stay in. But, he complains to everyone else, not me. And of course it gets back to me, which really hurts my feelings. I don't get paid for taking care of Mom, but I have transferred some money from her savings and checking accounts into a separate savings account in order to keep her accounts low enough to keep her eligible for Medicare helping with her prescription costs. I fully intend to use that money for her expenses, should the need arise. She doesn't have much, just a car in both our names, and her social security check each month. We buy the groceries, pay the utilities and most of her expenses. I do all of her accounting, pay her bills, pretty much everything for her except bathe her and I don't think that's far off. Just babbling here, sorry.
BTW, this hypothetical was written by an unpaid family caregiver with three siblings that share equally in whatever money the estate has left. The money doesn't matter to me, but I know for some people it would make a huge difference in their lives after caregiving -- some comfort vs poverty.
I think we need to stand on the outside and look at the question of whether a caregiving child should be paid. The thought of caregiving out of love is a nice one and it is a good ideal. But let's take a typical situation. Say, there are three children, one that took care of the parents without pay for 10 years and two that dropped by at Christmas. The will was written leaving equal shares of the estate to the three children. If they had not been helped by the one child, the last two years of their lives would have been spent in a nursing home. They stayed at home with hospice and the caregiving child attending them -- first the father, then the mother. Because of this, there was $250,000 left in their estate. (Remember this is hypothetical.) This money would have been gone and their home would probably have a lien on it if the caregiving child had not been there.
Thinking of this, would it be wrong for the parents to pay the caregiving child? Or is it better to save it to the estate to be shared by all siblings equally?
Emotions and resources really have to be kept separate. When it comes to love, children can never do enough for their parents, and parents can never do enough for their children. It is a two-way thing. The money part should be unemotional. People can have children without having to quit their jobs, because childcare is affordable and schools are free. Adult care is expensive, as well as being more physically difficult. I think it is quite okay to say, "I will quit work to take care of you if you'll pay me ___ to pay my bills each month." Each side loses some, but it would work better than what we often see now. If done correctly, it can be done with mutual love and respect -- both sides doing for each other.
And if someone on the outside doesn't like it, well, they got no dog in the race. And if the siblings resent seeing their inheritance shrink, they can be glad that they were able to work and live normal lives while the caregiving sibling took care of important things.
Rosiemcgeesmith: I'm sorry, but that is wrong in so many ways. I did not take money from my mom for caring for her. Like taking money from a pauper. This thread has been routinely discussed. Thank you ferris1.
Susan, I'm no expert but I wonder about the advice from your estate lawyer. Part of the reason people recommend caregiving contracts is to avoid complications should your mother need to apply for medicaid in the future. From what I have read those 'gifts' would be viewed as an attempt to hide assets and delay or complicate the process. Sometimes bookkeeping involves a little creative juggling in order to find the best solution for all concerned, maybe paying tax is the lesser of two evils.
I am not my mother's caregiver in the sense of on hands caregiving, but I am the trustee to her estate. My father recently passed away in June & I was trustee for both. Since his death, there are a lot of responsibilities to address with notifications, appointments, communications & paperwork in addition to the intense stress I am having from my own grieving in addition to my mother's grieving. Her Alzheimer's has caused her to constantly lean on me for her attention. When Dad was alive she sucked the life out of him. Now she is using me as her puppet & I have had to back away from her. This has not been easy. She insists on obtaining cash she doesn't need. With 24/7 caregiving service she doesn't realize the expenses involved on top of other financial obligations. I have never actually charged my parents for my services. However, due to the demands involved & the illness I experience from this constant stress (which has caused me to have chronic diarrhea), I am unable to work at a normal job. Does anyone know what a trustee would get paid for their time? I've come up with at least 20 hrs a week on an average. However, our estate lawyer has strongly advised that I do not claim income for this work. If I did I would be required to pay taxes. Therefore I am to be paid a set amount every month (to survive from my own expenses) which is to be categorized as an allowance or a gift. This is not considered as income. You may want to talk with your lawyer about this alternative. In state of Indiana an adult child is allowed up to $14,000/ per from each parent as a "gift" in addition to any allowances the parents see fit. You may want to look into this. I am still curious to know what I would actually be paid for my work as trustee if I were to claim this as income. I don't want to take advantage of the amount I get for these allowance payments nor too want to feel underpaid. I am also concerned that the money she has in the trust is enough to cover for all her expenses. Sorry that my answer comes with questions as well, but many of you know that each situation is different & taking care of our incompacitated parents is a constant gamble for everyone involved!
I would hope you and mom get alone for both your sanity as being sick is going to be dress full on you bothvif not lets just say mney means nothing to her compared to your love and care OK gauidianship or not she will agree to pay you for your help on the other hand she's banking the money and doing a guilt trip on you handing it to a shiftless no-good money begging relative or friend then its your choose you go for guardianship and handle her afairs and she grows to like it or you tell herom I love you you need help you don't want to pay for it from nurses or me so the only other choose is a nursing home they will take almost all your income sell your home its up to you so what do you want if if its this get in try he car we have to go look for your new home money is not the issue its your happiness
In my case, we had a contract but I did not use it. He gave me the house. I was a Realtor with a low of about 45,000 to 250,000 a year. I quit working 4 years ago. Now that he has passed, I may go back to work again. But, not right away. I would have given up everything to care for him. I helped my brother and sister care for our mother. We never asked for a dime and wouldn't. I was working full time as were my sister and brother and we just broke up our time. When she went into Hospice (it was in a Hospital) and it became easier for us. Toward the end we were there 24 /7. I would do it again. No money exchanged but lots of Love
Caring for an adorable child that is growing and maturing does not compare to lifting, bathing and wiping a 200 pound hateful person. You couldn't pay me enough, frankly. My sister died suddenly caring for Mother. Now, Mother is 96 and healthy in the NH. She has a complete staff looking after her and she is safe.
Home health care professionals here charge $35.00 an hour. If they are independent, you might get someone for $25.00 an hour. My acquaintance who has a full staff in her home, pays $11,000 per month.
So, don't short yourself on the pay. No one else is going to help you.
If my mother wasn't paying me I would have no other option but to place her in a nursing home, she needs 24/7 care. I based my 'caregiving fee' on the amount she would have been spending on a nursing home rather than trying to figure out how many hours I spend on her care...after all I am with her even if I am not actively providing care. For us this makes economic sense as the two of us are able to live for less than she would have paid others for her care.
Yes, but hourly rate, idk. If you are legal guardian and your mom has money as stated in the post above. If mom is on medicaid (i am in massachusetts, so my example), you can get paid as a caregiver, with documentation from mom's doctor, etc. If mom has state aid, i woukd check your state website, or call. I am in the unfortunate position myself (thankfully my husband works), where i stopped working while mom on VNA & hospice. WE would have to pay someone or my mother, which she cant afford . we will do anything though to keep mom out of a NH as long as possible. Good luck
It really depends on where you live. In the southeast, charging $10-15 an hour would probably not raise any eyebrows. In CA or NY the cost of living is higher, so I would consider $15-20 an hour. What LoloKoko wrote is very good advice. I don't get paid for being here with my mother, but I also keep careful watch over spending to make sure that my mother has enough money for a nursing home if it is needed in the future.
Here we get back to the fact that we all have different lives.
People who don't have a spouse who brings in some income are left with finding a way to quit their job and still survive financially or else hire someone else to care for the parent. There should be no guilt in accepting payment for providing care if the family can afford it and it saves the parent from having to hire a stranger.
Likely no payment will compensate for the lost wages in full such as lost Social Security and subsidized payments for group policies as Freqflyer said. But some payment can help make it possible for an adult child to quit a job and help the parent rather than hire other care providers if that’s the preferred choice all around.
However, this should be done with the knowledge of the family and with some legal advice so that if the parents ever need to go on Medicaid there are no questions about the legality of the pay.
Most people would gladly provide the care for free and most do a lot of that, anyway, but if a job is lost the money to live must come from somewhere. Often people will combine families to make it work. Others can do shifts so that no family member must give up his or her job. Some work up a contract with the parent. Others find a way to provide the care and still pay their rent.
Whatever needs to be done is okay as long as it's open and above board. Take care, Carol
Here are some things to think about if one is trying to decide whether to quit work to care for an aging parent.... on average if a working person quits work he/she will lose, over the years, between $285,000 and $325,000 which includes not only loss of salary, it also includes the net worth loss of the health insurance; loss of money being put into social security/Medicare; loss of other benefits such as matching 401(k); profit sharing; etc. [source: in part Reuters 5/30/12]
Thus, if a grown child needs money for their own retirement, and an aging parents offers a salary, I see nothing wrong with accepting it. Otherwise, the grown child will see their own retirement funds disappear quickly when they themselves get older. Then that grown child will be depending on their own children, if any, to help them get through their aging years.
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My Aunt died last year and allocated $1000 in her will to the executor of her will as payment for administration of her small estate. I think that was very fair. Took her 9 months with the assistance of a law firm to settle the estate, which I am told is normal.
My parents are always reimbursing me any time I use my own money to purchase something for them [not counting gifts]. Their parents did the same thing.
https://www.health.ny.gov/health_care/medicaid/program/longterm/
A caregiving child may want to help the parent out of love, but the child still has to eat and pay bills for the remainder of their life. To ask someone to neglect their own needs is telling them to deny themselves of their own life and comfort. Loving parents wouldn't do this. Loving siblings wouldn't do this. I wouldn't expect it of anyone. If someone is financially comfortable, it would be fine to work full-time for free. If they aren't, then they can't afford to, nor should they be expected to. Love has to go both ways for it to work right.
Thinking of this, would it be wrong for the parents to pay the caregiving child? Or is it better to save it to the estate to be shared by all siblings equally?
Emotions and resources really have to be kept separate. When it comes to love, children can never do enough for their parents, and parents can never do enough for their children. It is a two-way thing. The money part should be unemotional. People can have children without having to quit their jobs, because childcare is affordable and schools are free. Adult care is expensive, as well as being more physically difficult. I think it is quite okay to say, "I will quit work to take care of you if you'll pay me ___ to pay my bills each month." Each side loses some, but it would work better than what we often see now. If done correctly, it can be done with mutual love and respect -- both sides doing for each other.
And if someone on the outside doesn't like it, well, they got no dog in the race. And if the siblings resent seeing their inheritance shrink, they can be glad that they were able to work and live normal lives while the caregiving sibling took care of important things.
Home health care professionals here charge $35.00 an hour. If they are independent, you might get someone for $25.00 an hour. My acquaintance who has a full staff in her home, pays $11,000 per month.
So, don't short yourself on the pay. No one else is going to help you.
People who don't have a spouse who brings in some income are left with finding a way to quit their job and still survive financially or else hire someone else to care for the parent. There should be no guilt in accepting payment for providing care if the family can afford it and it saves the parent from having to hire a stranger.
Likely no payment will compensate for the lost wages in full such as lost Social Security and subsidized payments for group policies as Freqflyer said. But some payment can help make it possible for an adult child to quit a job and help the parent rather than hire other care providers if that’s the preferred choice all around.
However, this should be done with the knowledge of the family and with some legal advice so that if the parents ever need to go on Medicaid there are no questions about the legality of the pay.
Most people would gladly provide the care for free and most do a lot of that, anyway, but if a job is lost the money to live must come from somewhere. Often people will combine families to make it work. Others can do shifts so that no family member must give up his or her job. Some work up a contract with the parent. Others find a way to provide the care and still pay their rent.
Whatever needs to be done is okay as long as it's open and above board.
Take care,
Carol
Thus, if a grown child needs money for their own retirement, and an aging parents offers a salary, I see nothing wrong with accepting it. Otherwise, the grown child will see their own retirement funds disappear quickly when they themselves get older. Then that grown child will be depending on their own children, if any, to help them get through their aging years.