Background: My grandfather died a month ago, my mother (only child) is the sole executor of his estate and trustee of the trust he set up for my grandmother's care. Grandma has dementia. My mother is not a trustworthy person in general and DEFINITELY not when it comes to money. (So why did my grandpa pick her as executor and trustee? Denial, and a victim mentality - he let family members screw him over financially all his life.) I am in touch with my grandmother but estranged from my mother.
Current situation: My mother is wasting no time in calling the shots for my grandma. Whenever I talk to my grandmother, she says various things about her finances without any prompting from me. Some of it is worrying, but I have no idea what bits are true or what the complete story is. Even if I weren't estranged from my mother, I couldn't rely on her to tell me the truth, so asking her won't do any good.
I *could* possibly get a lawyer and start asking serious questions, but that is the nuclear option, and it's only been a month. So I don't feel I can go there quite yet.
Ugghhhhh.... it feels horrible. I'm torn between saving my sanity by just ignoring my grandmother's comments and letting the chips fall where they may, or doing the right thing by paying attention and looking out for my grandmother's interests. Plus, I'll admit that I have some resentment that my grandfather evidently did not even mention me in his will. I've pretty much been shut out. Yet during some of my last conversations with him, he did express concern about how my mother would treat my grandmother. He even commented that he was worried that my mother would "eliminate" my grandmother. (I think he meant something along the lines of "not really take care of grandma properly".)
So it's a mess. And I'm doing the typical thing for a child of a dysfunctional family - trying to be its conscience. Help? Do I tune it all out? Or keep emotionally engaging with it?
God only knows what version of events she told my mother. What I'm stuck on is why she felt the need to TELL ME about the exchange with my mother. She's said a lot of other toxic insensitive stuff to me as well.
The way all this is going down, I suspect my grandmother of trying to stir up drama, play two sides against each other, all as an attention-seeking ploy. She's a lonely widow, and heaven knows she never learned any healthy ways of relating and communicating. I advised her to discuss her concerns with other people, not just me, like my sister, her friends, the staff at the nursing home, because my getting involved was problematic. I notice she didn't do that. She ONLY talked to me about it.
And now she's whimpering about when I will come to visit. Sorry, what? Spend $100+ plus on a rental car and gas, and the better part of a day, to listen to her toxic slush? Yeah, no, that won't be happening anytime soon.
My grandfather kept my grandmother firmly under this thumb, and now that he's gone, I wonder if her true personality is coming out, and if she might have tendencies along the borderline/histrionic line. Or something.
In any event, her "I love you"s at the end of phone calls and voicemails rings SO hollow. Does she honestly think I buy it?
My grandmother has left a bunch of messages on my voicemail. It's now full and can't hold any more messages, which is great! I've been focusing on my studies (test this afternoon) and trying to calm myself. I haven't called her back.
From now on, if the subject comes up (and trust me, I won't be bringing it up or even calling my grandmother that often), my default comment will be "I want no part of this, don't even speak to me about it".
It's crossed my mind that even if my mother is skimming from my grandma's money, maybe it's just compensation for dealing with her.
Ugh. It's still emotionally messy though. Just going by the feelings I'm having, I'm more enmeshed than I realized. And it's all re: a woman I haven't seen face-to-face in 2 months, who lives 70km away! I really feel for those of you caregiving for a toxic relative *in your own house*. Yikes!
Obviously I'm not detaching at this moment, but that tends to happen when the cops call.
Big-picture-wise, I think all this is the result of having an aging population and society not seriously preparing for it. Our laws, regulations, etc are WAY behind the social changes that have taken place.
And yet, In my own situation, I've done nothing wrong or taken any advantage of my mother...but now I have the threat of the state taking guardianship, based solely on paying the bills without POA at my mom's request, and my family will probably be nailed to the wall. I freaking love it. .
There is legislation working its way through the system here to tighten up the rules and reporting re: PoAs, but it'll be years before it actually takes effect.
Then I dropped the p-word: police. I told her that she needed to file a report with the police, that they have special officers trained in elder financial abuse now, etc. And... she totally caved. She doesn't want to "do that' to my mother.
It's occurred to me that those six messages from Saturday were really just an attention-seeking ploy, a way to get me to call her. And then there was a bunch of toxic stuff, like telling me that she was going to give me and my sister some money, but that my mother told her that my grandfather said no to do so. What is the point of telling me that? Later in the conversation she said something about giving me money so that I can "pay the tax on it". Don't know what she is thinking of with that, but again, she didn't need to say it.
It's striking how she is so preoccupied with not upsetting my mother or forcing any consquences on her, but apparently she isn't thinking at all of how any of this drama might affect me.
So, clearly I have to work on disengaging even more. This whole thing is an utter waste of my time and energy. I guess I'll get more practice the next time the crazy calls come in.
After that, there isn't more you can do unless GMAIL legally requests POA be changed to you and gm draws up new will for herself. She will have to demonstrate mental competence for this.
Make sure you are emotionally prepared to accept whatever the outcome is, regardless, concentrate on you, your future and building a new life for you sans this dysfunctional bunch you are related to.
On the emotional level, you have a very valid point.
Don't know how I missed this but have read all the posts and my message is "Step away from the table there is nothing left to win"
There are two things that can happen.
You can report your mother to the IRS, there is a lump sum I believe 13K that your GM can give to your mother in a year. The bank should be able to produce copies of the checks when the time comes and you can remain anonymos but of course Mom will guess but what can she do to you?
The other thing that will happen if Mom has taken all the money and GM needs care which of course mom will be reluctant to provide Medicare/Medicaid will ferret it out and Mom will have to cough it up for a N/H whether she has it or not. Welcome to the world of her having a lien on her house. Everything else including the trust will be frozen. Don't waste your time energy or money on these people. They may be close relatives but do you really want them in your life. Concentrate on grad school and try to forget they even exist ,all they will do is continue to hurt you and the sooner you realize this the better.
What are your motives - to get back at mother? to protect grandma? Why? she doesn't care for you. Get grandma to a lawyer and she will swear your mother is the sweetest caring daughter a mother could ever have and she has no idea why YOU are making all this trouble. Grandpa arranged the POA because he knew he could trust his daughter. Think long and hard Margarets what do you really want. good luck.
My grandmother's bank was really great. They seem aware of the issues and were very clear about what they can do and not do.
Bringing a lawyer into all this will be messy. It's a 3-hour round-trip to where my grandmother is, I don't have a car, she doesn't drive. So just getting her into a lawyer's office is a major undertaking. Yippee.
What a mess. What a train wreck of a family!
check out the AVVO website for lawyer ratings and referrals. You can even pose questions and receive responses that may help you select a good one.
I've called repeatedly since I got the message about 40 mins ago, but she hasn't answered. She's probably visiting someone in the ALF. I'll keep trying.
So, good news - she's finally gotten a clue that my mother is cleaning her out. I saved those voicemails so I now have some good evidence to warrant a legal intervention of some kind. I'll make calls about it tomorrow.
But, something pretty bad must have happened though. Like a HUGE withdrawal of cash. I have no idea what would be involved in getting it back. My mother runs through money like there is no tomorrow. And you know what? It's not even the 4-month anniversary of my grandfather's death! She has wasted NO time.
Like any dysfunctional family, guess who gets called on to clean up the mess? The Hero Child. A role I never asked for. A thankless role. Bleghhhh.....
Although I do sort of hope it all comes out and at least a few people finally see through my mother's facade. Others are way too deep in denial to be swayed even by this. Argh!
Mom's bad behavior,
I'm sad to say,
Is her undoing;
To margarets, "YAY"!
The first call came at 2pm. The second at 6:30pm. On the second voicemail, she didn't hang up right after she finished her message, so it recorded her muttering "let's see if she does" (as in: let's see if she calls me back). That comment was probably made to my mother.
Ummm, hello, it's the weekend, maybe I'm out somewhere, doing something? I get a 4.5 hour window to call her back and if I fail to do so, she starts the snarking? She's already given me excellent reasons to want nothing to do with her, and it seems she only wants to dig herself in deeper.
Welp, she's in for a surprise she won't like. She's going to find that I won't initiate calls, won't return her calls in under 48 hours and will immediately terminate any call where she says insensitive or nasty things.
She's going to slag me off behind my back anyway so I don't see why I should put a lot of time or effort into my relationship with her.
Thinking it over, I think this is the problem: I've been massively triggered by all this contact with my dysfunctional family. I've had more contact with more of them in the last 5 months than I have in the last 10 years. It's obvious that there has been ZERO improvement in the dysfunctionality. The only thing that has changed is that I'm healthier and more aware, so I could see the dysfunction much more clearly.
So, I think what's going to cure this recent freak out is what cured it before: time and distance. In a way, the recent experiences were a good lesson, i.e. that my coping strategies have been spot on all these years.
As for my grandmother & her money, it's too bad so sad.
Maybe a few phrases might help. Inside your head, try this one from AA and Al Anon: "I didn't cause it, I can't cure it, and I can't control it." Aloud, try repeating, "You know, you have to speak to my mother if you want things to change." Be gentle, calm and factual, while keeping yourself on the outside of the circus. If they are no longer pulling your strings, it will be easier to let go of some of the anger. Hold onto some of it, because it protects you.
If you don't have or want a therapist, try an Al Anon group. Put 5 or 10 dollars in the basket, sit back and listen. You want to learn how to detach with love from the people whose craziness is catching. Some groups are not good groups. If you get a bad vibe, try a different group, because they aren't all alike.
Best wishes for you to be the one to break the cycle.
Since last weekend I've been really overwhelmed with resentment. The toxic stuff on the weekend was bad enough, but it's really been going on for months. I cut my grandmother a bit of slack because of the stress she's been under, but now that it's apparent that she *chose* me as a *target*, I kind of hate her guts.
In general in the last fews years I've been realizing just how dysfunctional my grandparents really are. (It makes sense - my mother had to get it from somewhere.) I'd even say they were abusive, through their inaction when action was clearly called for. Then there is the whole issue of my grandfather having a problem keeping his hands where they belong, if you catch my drift, in the last several years. And now the abuse is continuing in a weird way.
There is a spiteful part of me that actually WANTS my grandmother's financial crisis to actually hit, so I can have the opportunity to say "you reap what you sow".
I know - it's horrible, but there it is. How do I get past it?
That made my head spin!!!! She's GIVING MORE MONEY to someone she thinks is ripping her off???? I washed my hands of it at that point. I will never spend another moment listening to my grandmother talk about all this. I have already spent HOURS doing that, plus researching and planning and thinking.
I think she feels she has to give all this money to my mother to keep her sweet, so she doesn't abuse the financial and legal power she has over my grandmother. Kind of like handing over your wallet to a mugger so as not to risk getting beaten up too.
My gma was generally very toxic this visit. E.g. she sniped at me a bit because I hadn't brought back some of her bedding that I took with me last visit (her washer won't hold comforters and such but mine will) even though the reason it's taking so long is I'm trying to get out some tough stains and it'll take a few washes. (I'm not going to bother with it now.) TWICE she mentioned how her great-grandson (my nephew) is very bright and doing well at university but is struggling financiallly, and BOTH times I suggested that she help him out since there seems to be enough money. Both times her response was to mumble and then abruptly change the subject. That disgusted me. She goes on and on about all the money she is getting, even saying she's now "rich", yet she can't spring for her great-grandson's university education? Yuck.
She also slagged off some of her other great-grandchildren behind their backs. I think I can assume she does the same about me.
AND - I cooked dinner for 7-9 people three nights in a row this visit (big family gathering) and she didn't thank me ONCE.
You'd think all this rotten behaviour is due to her dementia, but I don't think so, because I've noticed that she is alert enough to be extremely careful about when she brings up this topic. It doesn't come out randomly with others present; she waits until she has me alone. The very moment she does - boom! Someone steps out of the room or a car pulls out of the driveway, and off she goes. She's THAT precise, so it's not dementia. But she is being very, very stupid, because I am truly the ONLY person who might have advocated for her if something went wrong. But that's done. She is just too toxic and has yanked my chain too many times.
Anyway, I've pretty much decided to do nothing. The final criteria will be whether I can get my grandmother to go on the record with her concerns. If not, forget it. I will tell her so point-blank and I will also tell her that if a crisis erupts later (i.e. her money is all gone) I won't help her then, either. I won't be responsible for a situation I did not create.