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Both of my parents are alive. They have lived all of their retirement years in a house owned by my Wife and I, on the water. They have lived off of military retirment, Social Security and what the water bares them in the form of seafood. It all sounds wonderful, doesn't it?

Too bad life isn't as simple as all of that for us. It has been a long road getting to this point, and it seems it will still be a long road ahead. My Parents landed in our home because we were able and willing to help them. Prior to that, they had been living well, but went bankrupt during one of the real estate collapses. They had borrowed money from us and at least one other sibling, trying to keep afloat until things improved...but they didn't improve, as is evident by the term 'bankrupt'.

After the bankrupcy, between the two of them, my Parents progressed into repeated money management issues, creating more and more debt, often for pleasure purchases. They also progressed into increasing levels of hoarding, from 'someday' projects to 'someday we might need this'. Years ago, it had gotten to the point that we couldn't walk through the wrap-around porch of our house, and sleeping in the guest bedroom was risky, as those piles glared down at you. Never mind the garage and the shed!

August 27, 2011, Hurricane Irene pays a visit. The house is destroyed, along with over 1/2 of the contents. My Parents are losing 'everything' again. To us, much of what was lost was junk they hoarded over the years. To them, well...it's what they have left. We cleaned up and prepared the house to be removed. Cleanup was fun. My Dad was reluctant to let things go, even if it was under water. he knew that the sewage was right there with it.

My Mom couldn't help, as she is all but disabled. She is extremely overweight and has bad knees. She can only get around with a walker for a short time...and is falling constantly. Add to that she has Diabetes, Asthma, slurred speech and is having seizures that the Doctors can't seem to identify the cause for. Recently she was told anxiety. Probably the case, in my opinion. She's already on every pill under the sun, though, including anxiety meds and anti-depresents.

My Wife and I have begun rebuilding our house. In fact, we had planned to build our retirement home here some years down the road, so we are doing it now. The house is bigger. We designed it to have the same number of bedrooms, but a wide-open floor plan and a handicap-accessible bathroom with a 5'x5' shower you can walk into with a walker, wheelchair or scooter. We included a ramp out the back door to the garage, as well.

You have a pretty good picture of the foreground and a few pieces of the background. i need to fill in the background a little more:

My Dad is ex-military. He was very strict and hot-tempered as we were growing up. He is still hot-tempered. He reflects an attitude that says 'somebody owes me', and he projects it onto at least most of my four siblings and I. He has never used the words 'I'm Sorry', at least not in my presence. I've seldomly even heard 'Thank You'. Finally, nothing is ever a good idea unless he came up with it.

He complains about everything...but to friends and neighbors. Unless we bring it up, he says nothing of his complaints. If we bring it up...it becomes and argument, then escalates.

My Mom is relatively passive. Her thing our entire lives was to keep the peace, no matter what (This is probably a good time to admit that I have been alot like my Mother over the years, though I do have some of my Father's stubborness!). She has sat with me and told me many that this is what she does. After a heated argument with my Father a couple days ago she told me she acknowledges the fact that my Father has never thought before he spoke. She learned to just let it go and ignore him. Most of us kids learned the same. However, I can't expect my Wife, our nieghbors and friends to do the same.

I think the main source of frustration for my Mother over recent years is been the fact that her increasing physical limitations make it difficult to impossible to 'keep the peace'. I believe that the physical limitations along with all of these years of looking at the piles of 'stuff' she helped create have greatly contributed to her excessive obeisity and depressive state. I sometimes feel like she's just waiting to die. She is only 75 years old. She should be enjoying her retirement!

After one more heated argument, we are now faced with a decision of possibly not letting my parents move into our house once it's built. This wil be the 2nd time we've arrived here in the past few months. I never wanted my Parent's lives to end this way, yet I don't see any way around it. I'm afraid that when my Mother dies, I'm not going to be able to forgive my Father for the way he treated her. Add to that, none of the kids are willing to accept responsibility for my Father when she does.

So, Now what?

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Thank you for the update. I just read this entire thread for the first time. At this point I would suggest that you look into ways of dealing with a person with dementia....giving/not giving choices, the uselessness of trying to reason, losing driving privileges, and all the rest. It may help you as your journey continues. Again, thanks for coming back.
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Well done DT, It all is out on the table now and all are the better for it. We have our visions, at times, of what we would like to accomplish, but they don't always match reality. I am glad you and your wife will have your home to yourselves. You have given and given. Time for you and your wife now. Your parents will manage and it is great that your one sis is helping them. Take care
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DT, you did all you could for as long as you could. That is admirable, even by military standards. Your father's angry phase will pass, but your mother's has not peaked yet. Things are always changing, they move on to a meeker state of mind at the end. That is when time is short and you reconnect. I just can't say how long that will take. God keep you.
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Yikes, it's already been 2 years since I posted this! I guess I owe an update:

My Father was diagnosed with Dementia, which explains many of our arguments. In fact, once he was diagnosed and accepted this fact, he became more relaxed and a lot less argumentative.

My Mother, on the other hand, became more depressed after learning about my Father's dementia. She also went through a personality change that rather caught me off guard. She has been particularly hard on my Wife (I'll get into this more in a minute, but first, more status updates).

On the subject of letting my parents move into our house once it was rebuilt: We didn't take the advice some of you gave. We permitted them to move into the new house last year, early August, 2013. In designing the house, we purposely did not create areas for storage within the house. The level they would occupy included two bedrooms, one full bath and a great room, which included TV/sitting area, dining room and kitchen. We set the rule that they do not stack things in the house. If they are using it, fine, bring it in; if they are unpacking and/or sorting, ok for short-term, but things that aren't in use could not stay in the house. We simply didn't want another hoarding issue within this house, like we had in the old house. We did tell them they could use 1/2 of the 2-car garage and the shed for storage.

Though not without a little bickering from my Father, they honored our request; filled the inside of the house, but kept it reasonable for most of the year since they moved back in.

Until this last storm came through, they were still occupying all of the garage floor with everything they were still sorting through...but we didn't give them much grief about it. When the storm was approaching, we began to prep the house in case the water levels came up as high as the garage. We needed to get their stuff off of the floors to help reduce the risk of loss and damage. I convinced them to do what I had suggested a year ago. They bought some heavy duty shelves, which we assembled on one side of the garage. Me, my oldest sister and three nieces then moved everything off of the floor and onto these and some old plastic shelves my parents had. For the first time since my parents had moved in, we were able to park two cars in the garage!

For the visit at which time we prepped for the incoming storm, everything had gone ok up to this point. It started to fall apart, however, when we received a mandatory evacuation order from our town. My Father refused to go, my Mother said she wouldn't go, my oldest sister stated she wouldn't leave her Father behind, so she wasn't going to go. Fortunately, other family stepped in...phone calls to us and to our parents...so it wasn't all on my Wife, my 2nd oldest sister and I, as it always was before. First, we had to make my oldest sister understand that by keeping herself and our three nieces there, she was letting my Father's decision put her and our nieces at risk. Next, my Wife and a neighbor made hotel reservations in a remote town for enough rooms to cover our entire families. When we gave my Father this information, he was finally willing to go. I'm guessing it was more the stress of not knowing where they would go that held him back...who knows, but things calmed down for the evening and the following morning, through breakfast and finally heading back to the house.

The next big challenge came with our lunch plans. One of my nieces was scheduled to work at a local restaurant so we all decided to go to lunch there. The very last minute, my Mom went from seeming fine to saying she wasn't going to go with us, then started balling when asked why by my oldest sister (This has become somewhat normal in recent months...she seems extremely emotional. She has been in a docs care, but not much, if anything has changed).

Ok, so my Mother is going to stay home. We were still going to go, including my Father. We were going to take everybody in my parent's van so we didn't have to take multiple vehicles. I asked my Dad if I could drive. He immediately got angry. I tried to discuss it with him, but he threw a fit, said he wasn't going, stormed into the house, slamming doors and cussing.

My Wife had already been through a lot, as she had actually been at the house for about 10 days, at this point. I had dropped her off the previous week, then returned two days prior to this incident. She came down the stairs and announced that she had had enough, we will be leaving and they will need to find another place to live... Wow! I mean, it's not the first time we discussed this possibility, but I wasn't expecting this reaction at that time.

Later, I learned of the stressful situations my Wife had endured since I had left. After I left, my Mother had approached my Wife and said "We need to talk". She followed that with a lecture about what my Wife can and can't do. Again, not the first time my Mother has pulled this tactic on my Wife after I had left, but it was largely what led up to the 'final straw'. Other conversations my Mother has had with my Wife in the past and during this same week would start out with 'You know I love you but...', then she would proceed to tell her the things she didn't like about my Wife.

Since this occurred, we have not been back to our other house. My parents have been looking for a place to call their own. Thankfully, my oldest sister has volunteered to stay with them and help packing and house hunting. Though we often don't see eye-to-eye on things, I'm very grateful my oldest sister has opted to step in for a while and give us a break. It's a first since the drama began so many years ago, and it's a first long overdue break for us.

My Wife and I have received a lot of support from my other brother and sisters. Though most of them haven't been there to help with my parents for the most part, they know what has been occurring over the years and believe this was the only possible solution. Not one of my siblings are willing to take our parents in. It's unfortunate that that our parents don't understand that and/or do anything about it. They don't seem to realize how selfish they've been over the years, or how hard they have made it on our marriage. With my parents now in their upper 70's, I don't see that changing.

I don't intend to let these latest events in our family destroy my marriage or our family. My Mother doesn't want this, either. She stayed in contact with me via email, and finally called me a couple days ago. She explained at one point that my Dad was mad at her because she chose to do so.

So, in the end, it was a foolish argument about who was going to drive...that's what finally made us realize that it was time to get them out of our house. For that instance, I do understand my Dad's frustration, to an extent. He knows he's getting old, and he knows he is battling dementia. He has had some challenges with driving, mostly forgetting where he's going and/or why he's going there. I'd also heard he has had, on occasion, had problems staying on his side of the road (which is why I had asked, in the first place).

I haven't spoken with my father in over a month now...he has no interest, and I'm not ready to try, to be honest. I will, eventually, but likely not until they have a new place to move into. My conversations with my Mother and some of the words that came out of my Father's mouth when he was storming into the house pretty much pin-pointed much of the reason that he had been so troublesome for us over the years. It was about 'control', and/or the fear of being controlled. He doesn't want to lose his license and depend on somebody else for transportation, he doesn't want to have anybody tell him what he can and can't do with the place he lives and he has refused to create a will, power of attorney, etc.

The second component to this is what I and others might refer to as selfish and, in many cases, childish. What it really is, though, is something that seems to plague so many these days...though mostly children in my experience: 'entitled'. We, their children, owe them. It's as if my Wife and I should have built that house just for them, and they should be able to call it theirs and do with it whatever they want. They've carried that attitude long before our house was involved...and I've even heard my Dad clearly state it in at least one conversation years ago. It goes way back to when they were heading toward bankruptcy so may years ago...about 2 decades. At that time my Wife and I had helped them with the bills... I won't go into all of that...I think I said it early on here. It's just part of the larger sums of money our relationship has cost us, and what helped to put us into the position we are in. We need them to be out of our house if there is to be any hope they will stop demanding and we can start being a family.

I'm sorry this is long. I am so grateful that there are forums like this where we can 'vent' and get support from others that will help us though the rough spots. I don't know that this will help anybody...I do hope somebody can learn something from our mistakes and success. It's clear that we aren't alone with our trials and tribulations; there are many of you on here. Perhaps this is a sign there are lessons we should be passing on to our youth that our predecessors failed to share with us...some reality we aren't prepared for. Starting in my pre-teen years and many years following, I had this picture in my head of what a family looks like. That idealistic vision of old has led to disappointment so many times, it's ridiculous. Still, we live and move on. I sure do miss the childish ignorance of those early years!
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Hi, Kimbee. Thank you for the kind words and the concern. It has been pretty quiet for the past few months. My Wife's Father stopped his treatments and his cancer was declared to be in remission. He is due for a follow-up soon, which I know he and the family are nervous about. Relationships on that side of the family have been stronger than they had been in years.

Our last few visits to visit my family, friends and property have been progressively better. I would attribute a large part of that to improved the improved health of my Mother. While trying to identify her problems with passing out...surprise, surprise...the doctors finally decided that perhaps she shouldn't be taking fistfuls of medication every day. They reduced some, and took her off of others and are monitoring her much more closely. She is much more coherent, speaks more clearly and is obviously much happier.

As a result of my Mother's improved health, as I had noted in my last message in June, I had learned that she had basically laid down the law with my Father...told him that if he starts something that risks their chances of being able to move into our house, he will have to answer to her, because she wants to move back there when the house is finished.

My Father still hasn't addressed his problems with a doctor. Others in the family have begun asking us questions about whether he is alright, citing unusual behaviors, seeming lost in his thoughts at times. It is becoming more frequent. That said, there were a couple instances, since we last posted here, where he had begun to harass our friend and builder about the house, or complain to us that the builder wasn't working on our house. It was funny one time he complained, because our builder was up visiting us in our primary house in Virginia. He needed to escape for a little while, so we invited him up. Like I noted, he is a good friend, as well. So I told my Father "Yes, I know...he's sitting on our couch..."

My Wife went down by herself the last visit, a couple weeks ago. She needed to see the progress and be part of it. She helped with the framing of what will be our Master Bedroom...great therapy for her. While she was down there, though nervous about even discussing anything with my parents at first, she found the strength and visited with my parents. They discussed the house and the plans going forward for the house. My Father would, at times, ask questions, but responded reasonably well to her answers. She also discussed his tendancy to take the word of certain nieghbors over those we have spoken...over his own family. She said it went well. Of course, she had the benefit of my Father finding one of our neighbors...his 'friend'...in a precarious situation. This one individual has been trying to claim land from our property, as well as road easements affecting our other neighbor's access to their homes. He never approached anybody...just basically 'took' it (Some has already been proven by surveyors, others are still under investigation, and lawyers are on retainer). My Father stopped in to see his 'friend' while my Wife was there, asking him what he was doing. This wasn't the first time. My Father had called months ago asking for our plot, and showed it to the neighbor's surveyor, who had, then removed his markers. Nobody was notified that time either...my Father just happened to catch him. This time, it seems my Father is beginning to understand. This 'friend' used to talk bad about my parents when they weren't around. My Father learned that week that we weren't, in fact, the people making trouble with his neighbors and friends.

We now receive pictures every few days, as the house is quickly beginning to look like one...very exciting! In fact, it is fully framed now, and we are in awe, seeing what was merely a freehand sketch with my finger on an iPad turn into something real!

The progress is probably another reason why it's been relatively quiet. For a long time, my Father didn't visit the property at all. Now, it seems, he visits frequently. He has been sending pictures, as well. His comments have been positive. He bragged about being the first to stand in our now fully enclosed master bedroom, looking out at the river across the street. That's the kind of thing I like to hear!

We are going down again late next week, staying until the miiddle of the following week. This will be about making decisions on the house. It will also be about relaxing, enjoying family and, hopefully, doing some fishing! We're trying to arrange a Ferry boat ride to the outer banks with my family while we are there.

I do want to thank everybody, once again, for being here and offering their support and advice. I hope everythings if fine with mayasbob...better, even.
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Hi DTK, I had read some of your post when I was still fairly new here, and tonight I came across it, read it from start to #57. First, I am sorry you have had such a struggle with your dad. I hope you have been able to support your wife with her dad's sad news and all that is involved for her and your inlaws. I am also really sorry to see that you were given such stress-inducing comments when you came here for the support you neeeded. I have noticed this happens here from time to time, but is not the norm. I wish it had not been the case for you. I admire your openness in seeking help, and your wife's as well. I thought you both did a great job of sharing an effective analysis of the situation-very well done! I hope things are better for all of you. If you have time, could you let us know how things are going for you, your wife and both of your families? You got some supportive responses from people whom I've come to know and love, and they, I'm sure, would love to know how you are doing and to be here for you as an ongoing support as you face the difficulties ahead. I offer you my utmost respect as a family who has tried to find the right balance in a kind way, for all of your family members. Hope to hear back from you when you may have a minute. Sending peace and moments of joy, Kimbee
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Thank you for your input, emjo. Sorry about the delayed response...just been laying low lately.

JaneB, we're doing ok. We went down to see the progress on the house over Memorial Day weekend. We had a couple dinners with my parents while we were there. No arguments, and limited discussions involving my Father. I later learned that my Mother had 'laid down the law' on my Father, telling him she wants to be able to move into our house...so if he gets involved in an argument...she will have something to say. Meanwhile, she was doing a little better than an past visits. The Docs are still trying to help her with her condition, and seem to be leaning toward anxiety, rather than physical as the source.

We greatly appreciate your support and prayers!
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I was just wondering how you are doing, and what you all have decided to do. Sending love and light your way....Jane
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DTK I commend you for the changes you are making. I understand the position you are in of havng one angry critical parent and one not, who is in ill health. My mother is the critical parent, my father was not, and was in ill health for a number of years. They had some dreams that could not be fulfilled too. They finally did purchase a home where they lived together for a number of years, until my father declined to the point that he needed to be placed in a multilevel care facility. My mother could not have looked after him, and, honestly, I think it was good for him to be away from the anger she displayed continually.
I know it is hard to stand up to an angry parent, and refuse to get "hoovered in" to meaningless arguments. They want the unhealthy pattern to continue. There was nothing I could do for my father, but be supportive, which I was, as far as I was able. He chose my mother as his spouse and he chose to stay with her, and I had to honour his choices, but also protect myself and my family..It is a difficult balancing act.
My heart goes out to all of you, including your father, for I cannot believe that a person who acts as he does is happy inside or has decent self esteem. I wish you strength, and compassion for all concerned.
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DTK: May I suggest that you try to talk to your mom, privately, before speaking to them together. Let her know that this is what "you" want to do and that you would appreciate her support.

I'm sorry for your mom, but not because of her desire to live on water front property. That I think is the least of her problems. I'm sorry she does not get more loving support from your father. To disregard the benefit of a life alert system when he knows full well that she falls is not acceptable. A hover chair is a great idea and would expand her freedom and safety in the house, but it will not get in on the toilet or give her a shower.

Your mom is only 75 years old, but with her obesity, knee issue and diabetes, she is a not-so-walking time bomb. Her body is older than her age. She can't lose weight being inactive and if her diet is not being monitored and blood sugar levels checked, there is no way she will be able to lose weight to lessen the burden to her knees. Her depression and anxiety may be increased due her physical problems and a lack of support from your father.

I hope you will talk privately with your mom and stress the importance to you and your wife that they no longer life in the waterfront property. Let her know this is important to you and, again, ask her to support you. Do this now.

In the future, I would suggest that you have more private conversations with your mom. It would be wonderful if her doctor would send her to a rehab unit to gain more strength and balance. Medicare will pay for that as long as she is making progress. However, if your parents do not have a supplemental policy to there Medicare, there could be costs involved. Still, it would better to do this before she breaks a hip. Being away from your dad, with people who are trying to help her, might also improve her depression. Out patient rehab is also a good possibility, but being somewhere where her meals are provided might be best and most consistent in her effort to improve physically and control her diabetes.

All of the rehab stuff needs further discussion. For now, please stand your ground. That's step one. The other steps will fall in place and if you need more support or just want to bounce ideas around, you know you have friends here.

I am sending you love and white light. Cattails.
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Hurrah for you, DT. And all who have been able to hear and see what you are really saying. I say, just skip right past the postings from mayasbob. Mean spiritedness doesn't help a thing, as you are all too well aware.
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Thank you, cattails, for your response. This is the consensus here...and I know it's true, and in the end, I will do the right thing...and that end is soon. This year and late last year have been major milestones for me in making some tough decisions. For the first time I stood up and told my Father that enough was enough. I wasn't going to participate in his unwarranted arguments. That was just the beginning, Since then I have had to look at my own behaviors and make adjustments, decide what was most important, etc. I let myself get caught up in another meaningless argument with my Father prior to coming here...and I know I should have just backed away...but I'm getting there.

My Mother once shared some advice with me, after she and my Father had my Grandmother living with them for several years. She said "No matter what, if your Father goes first, do not move me in with you...I do not wish to do that to you. If I can't live on my own, move me into a home or something". I take these words as loving words, though some that can only see things in black and white might say otherwise. She was just trying to tell me that my Grandmother, with her health issues, was such a burden that it was causing her and my Father problems. My Mother is having similar issues to my Grandmother, with frequent spells, leading to falls...It's a miracle she hasn't done more serious damage already, but so far just a few bumps and bruises. Meanwhile, my Father is usually either on the other side of the house with headphones on, or out somewhere, unaware that she is on the floor. Until recently my Father has shot down anybody's suggestions that she have something like Life Alert. He also shot down the idea of getting her a scooter to help her get around. Now he seems receptive to a scooter, at least. On our next trip, my Wife and I will be discussing something along the lines of Life Alert, once again. We will continue to support my Mother. However, instead of battling with my Father...I'm going to let him say what he is going to say, but pursue anyway, as long as my Mother isn't all out against it. I'm not going to let the attitude ruin what is left of her life...which could very will be many years if she get's what she needs!
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DLK: I did not read in anything you wrote that you intended to abandon your parents. As you and your wife shared, you have supported them for the past 15 years. The issue is that you would prefer they not move back into the water front property. That property is yours and will be your retirement home. You seem to have slowly come to this possible decision while the waterfront property is being rebuilt and your parents no longer living there.

I'm quite certain, you will find another suitable place for your parents to live and they can have their possessions with them in their new residence. I would hope that your siblings would pitch in and help with the rent on your parents new residence so the burden of their financial needs does not fall solely on you and your wife.

I understand that you want to honor your mom's wishes to live on the water, but what is most important is that they have a safe place to live. It's not necessary for them to have everything they wish to have, especially at someone else's expense. What's important is that they have what they need and I'm sure you have every intention on making that happen.

What you dread is having your father angry and screaming at you and your mom disappointed. Those may be the consequences, but I encourage you to do what is best for you and your wife and live with the consequences.

Again, you are not abandoning your parents, you are taking a different path so that the waterfront property will be in good working order and available to you to enjoy when you chose to visit it or occupy it. That makes total sense to me.

If this is what you want to do, then take the bull by the horns and do it. Let your parents know that the waterfront property is no longer an option for them and start the process of finding a suitable home for them to live in. Maybe they are in one already.

Your wife needs you to make decisions and put things in order because her father is dying and she needs you to help her manage the issues with her parents. She needs your support and your attention. It's time for you to be a husband and not just a son. Please don't let her down. I think you will regret not being there for her in her time of need.

Best Wishes, Cattails
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Well, there you are again, teaching me new things. In the past I thought that a brandy bottle with a pear would qualify has a sentimental keepsake, sort of like my collection of crafts from my children's grade school days. But now I know that it is the equivalent of unsanitary unsafe hoarding, and all possessions should be treated with equal respect. See I am capable of learning, even without going back to community college.

It is OK with me, though, if you want to give up on me. I'm sure your insights are in high demand elsewhere.
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So, you reported me. Oh, well...

Ladee, are you still trashing your employer online that you caregive for? Gee, I remember it well...
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Mayasbop, I did ask you not to respond, you did anyway, and now others have done the same. Therefore, I have reported you, and will take it further, if necessary. Your responses simply aggravate, rather than help. You read more into every statement than is there. Your assumptions, at least in my case, are way off base. For thatthe last time, please refrain...
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"Maybe if more people actually sought their answers from God, they'd find the help that they really need comes from Him and Him alone"........ uh huh, so we didn't need all your input after all.....
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Jane, I honestly don't need a public forum to make myself feel better about my choices. I know I'm doing the right thing for my loved ones. I don't need anyone else's approval for my decisions. Nor do I take surveys to see if selfishness and self-centeredness is acceptable in regard to the care of elders.

I don't believe in taking surveys on anything. I pray and I ask God to show me what He wants me to do. And then, I do what I know to do for my elders. It's only my generation who has felt the need to warehouse elders instead of standing by them. My grandparents took care of their parents. My mother took care of hers as they became elders, my father's siblings took care of his since my father was overseas and now I am caregiver. It's what used to be the norm.

My goodness! How did all of my elders manage without taking surveys on the internet from others as to what was right and whether or not to do what they know in their own hearts is the right thing? Where in the world did they think that they should think of someone else as highly as they thought of themselves? Let's see... God's Word and the example set for them by their own elders, maybe?

Maybe if more people actually sought their answers from God, they'd find the help that they really need comes from Him and Him alone.
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jeannegibbs, anytime that these children have posted about their elders' losses, it has been to either dismiss them as things (as daughter-in-law did) or as something that was trouble to sort through and throw away (as son did). It obviously isn't important to the children and they've made that plain.

Maybe you should go back and reread what they've posted.

And quite frankly, I'm not working a doggone thing out. I am my mother's caregiver, I was her father's caregiver and I know what I'm talking about when I post about the losses that elders continually face. Being an elder is a time of great loss. Their belongings are a big part of their security, as well as a reminder of their lives. The memories associated with their belongings is priceless. My own mother has a bottle of pear brandy that she and my father got in Italy in 1978 when they finally took a honeymoon after almost twenty years of marriage. It has traveled many a mile since. The brandy has darkened with age, but the pear is still intact with the bottle still sealed. The only purpose it serves is to remind my mother of that time with my father, but it gets moved every single time she does. It's the memories, not the brandy, that are important to her, but the bottle of brandy is something tangible that brings these memories back.

By the way, if you're having problems with actually comprehending these folks' postings, maybe you should take a class or two at your local community college. Or maybe find a church where selfishness and self-centeredness aren't valued as they are in this society. In my family, it's the norm to care for our elders, not find a place to warehouse them because it's too much trouble.
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Oh Mayasbop what an amazing talent it must be to be able read minds and motives and intentions through a few paragraphs zipping through cyberspace! Awesome.

And to know that material things are important to all elders. Someone forgot to get that message to my mother or her sisters, poor things, but my friend's mother got that message loud and clear.

And, though I always have scored very high on reading comprehension tests, I'm amazed that you could see the dismissive attitude in the poster's writing. It was hidden to me. Thank you for pointing it out -- I would have missed it. (And, um, I still miss it when I re-read. Hmmm.)

And, silly me, I thought a public forum for persons taking care of their parents was exactly the place to explain one's perspective on parental health issues and family relationships. Thank you for setting us straight on that, too. Ehr... could you tell us what this forum should contain? Because obviously the vast majority of us get it wrong.

With your amazing talents and knowledge, it is surprising that you find time to post here. And, if you are busy, feel free to stop doing so. We'll understand.

Jeanne
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Wow, Mayasbob. I've been reading your posts in this thread for a while an ach time refrained from commenting on them, but no more. Pipe down. Each time you write, it's to make yourself feel better about some constellation of choices you've made, or a situation you live with. And it sheds no light on the questions genuinely posed by this man. It adds no love to the world. So my advice to YOU is to heal yourself or maybe -- if you have to -- share your venom in your own world, and keep it out of the realm of others who actually are struggling to make life work, the best they can. Just stop it. Seriously.
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My, my.... I think I hit a nerve. Oops....

Be honest with yourself. You're spending more money because you're building YOUR retirement home. You're not going to the added expense for their needs. You're doing it for you. And be honest with them as well. Let them keep what dignity that they still have by telling them the truth so that they're not left waiting for something that will never be.

By the way, things are important, especially to elders. Things aren't just for physical needs. They also serve as emotional comfort because as an elder, their losses are neverending. They lose friends, they lose both mental and physical abilities, they lose their loved ones --- it's a stage where the losses far outweigh the gains. When you are an elder, you'll understand that yourself. Right now, it's really easy to dismiss these losses of your parents as just things, but one day, if you manage to live long enough to become an elder, you'll want your things around you. Then, you'll remember and be ashamed for how dismissive you were about what was/is theirs.

By the way, you're the one who brought the word "military" into the conversation, seemingly to find something to explain your father's behavior and your feelings about it. You're also the one who brought up your mother's health issues and your parents' interaction in THEIR relationship --- something that really isn't your business to pick apart, by the way. It's their relationship and it's their business.
Once again, the issue is not how they got to the point where they're at because that's water underneath the bridge. Posting about their business on a public message board is extremely disrespectful to them both and it's just plain wrong. It certainly isn't going to change anything for the better to do it.

I don't think you were looking for solutions when you posted. I think "absolution" would better describe it. I feel sad for your folks and for you. It doesn't have to be either/or.
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Thank you again, all. One question I never answered: Though my Father shows signs of Dementia, he has never been diagnosed. I doubt he would admit it to a doctor, anyway. That said, we know what our options are, and greatly appreciate the input here.
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Theresa, thanks for filling in some more information.

I completely hear your husband's desire to help his mom fulfill her dream of living on the water. The thing is, she is confused about what the real dream is, here, and so is your husband. The dream of the water isn't about a location as much as it is a dream of a refuge, a peaceful place, a place where there is nurturing and quiet. Regardless of where she lives, that's unattainable unless her husband lives elsewhere. A home on the water WITH her husband is no more peaceful than an apartment or house somewhere else with her husband.

So why cede your dream/retirement home to them? It's an admirable but unattainable gift he wants to give her. And it could be decades before you both get in your own home.

I hope maybe that your husband will be open to finding some ways to disconnect from his Dad, and the idea that ANYTHING he could do would be enough to make Dad happy. Ain't gonna happen. And maybe his siblings could help him find solutions for dear old Dad that don't require anyone to live with him but Mom. She has made the decision to stay for decades, and that is her choice.
Sending love and support and encouragement and good vibes your way.
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((((((Theresa)))))) thank you for sharting so honestly. I would say that your fil has mental issues with the attitude that you describe, and from my experience with people with that attitude, nothing will ever be good enough. It does sound like you and your husband have bent over backwack to help his parents, and it is time now to help you, and your family with your dad going into hospice. Fair is fair.
DTK -you wrote earlier that it twice has come to your parents not moving into that house - if I understood it correctly. Please correct me if I haven't. In my opinion that is your right move. It looks like high time to rexamine your priorities, and to cut the cord tying you to your mum's happiness. She chose to marry your dad, and she chooses to stay with him. Helping your mother fulfill a dream of living near the water is nothing near as important as supporting your wife. I have a parent who can't be pleased either, and continually trying to please her brings nothing but grief. The demands just escalate, and there is no thanks or gratitude of anykind. You mum has made some unhealthy choices in terms of her weight, and both of them, it seems in terms of foolish spending, and they are experiencing some of the consequences. That is how people learn. Rescuing them is not helpful. Draw some boundaries,. let them live their own lives, rent their own place and get on with their lives - and you and your wife look after yourselves.Can the plan, and strike out in a new direction that fills you and your wife's needs, not just yours. It seems that her parents are in more dire need of time and attention than yours are. You cannot save anyone else from their bad choices, and you have no obligation to devote so much of your resources to trying to fulfill some one else's dream. In fact, it sounds codependent to me-and I don't mean to criticize here. I have made many unhealthy, codependent choices with regard to my critical parent and am learning not to. The first thing I had to do to change me was to recognise it.

I wish you both the very best, and hope I have not been candid to the point of offending you. I truly believe that the way you are going will not work out well for you, and that some major readjustments are necessary for the wellbeing of your marriage. Good luck!
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Hi I am the Wife of the great guy who is reaching out to you all for support and advice. I want to say how much I appreciate those of you who are supporting him and trying to help him make a decision. Perhaps I can shed some additional light to this situation. For years before the Hurricane my father in law would fight with my husband that the house, he was not paying for was too small, to keep the peace we paid to have an addition put on it.. wasn't good enough.. We have financially helped to support them for 15 years. They only went bankrupt because we stopped paying their bills before we also had to claim bankruptcy. We bought a second home just so they would have a place to live. While insurance paid for some of the rebuild we are getting a sizable loan to rebuild the house to accomodate both their needs and our future retirement designs. My father in law thinks he is entitled to make all the decisions on the house, even though none of his money is involved, and is verbally abusive to us everytime we give him an update on the house. Every decision we make comes with a thought of how will this upset him and is he going to yell at us because nothing we do is good enough for him since he didn't "pick it out" or design it. We have accomodated all their request, larger door jams, recessed thresholds, handicapped bathrooms, ramps, larger bedrooms and yes his request for a Jaccuzzi tub. We try to include him in decisions but he always angry, dissatisfied, negative and not supportive. To add to this situaiton 8 months ago my father was diangosised with Bladder cancer and I have been emotionally supporting my parents thru 3 surgeries and 5 months of chemo and radiation. My father decided this week to stop chemo and engage Hospice. My husband's siblings are all pushing us to either keep providing them with a place to live or tell them to find their own. Cause all have said they can't move in with them. They are not retirement poor and have more than enough money to rent their own place. Problem is my husband wants to furfill his mother's dream to live near the water. Other posters mentioned that we don't feel for what they have lost, we feel for their loss as we do anyone who has lost something. But what they lost were "things" what my husband has lost over the last 15 years is more precious and that is a relationship with his parents. In my opion we have bent over backwards to help them thru our marriage. We are married 23 year and all these situations are putting a large strain on our marriage. I struggled with supporting my husband with this situation when I wish he could focus on helping me be there for my parents. I really believe his father has medical or mental issues but he refuses to see the doctor. I want to walk away from his father, but his mother needs us... so my question to you all is how can we make this work?
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DTKemptll, glad you responded. You will learn alot on this site from many knowledgable people. Ignor the others.
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You have not offended anybody...your truthfulness and honesty is refreshing. It's not easy to put yourself out there and ask for help. We can love our parents and still not like their behavior. And quite honestly...the role of parent and child reverses as we age and dementia takes over.(Mysabob.. I NEVER said I treat my Mother like a child...she has become childlike and helpless due to the tumour that is eating away at her brain. Think before you attack anyone on this site)...we all come here for help and kindness. This man is asking for input and I speak from my own experience...I've been caregiver for my Grandmother, Father and now my Mother....over ten years of my life have been altered by the needs of others and if I've learned anything it's balance between my life and theirs. Caregiving is an opportuity to show just how much we love our parents. The truth is sometimes they need more than we give...Mothers day was a good example...I found myself torn between spending the day with Mother and being verbally abused or spending it with my own son who wants a great day for me. The guilt factor kicked in before breakfast. I'm still learning....
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Better yet, Mayasbop, please don't respond, you've just made it more frustrating for me. You must have come to this site to spy on your own children, because you are certainly lashing out like a disgruntled 'aging elder'.
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Highlight away, because I firmly believe you are reading more into this than is there. I've not said a thing to discredit my Mother's strength through the earlier years. I've said alot in analysis about how we came to where we are...and if I didn't...I may as well not post, because you wouldn't have any information. You are stuck on the 'military' card, as if once somebody is military, they are in the right no matter what...no, they are still human and very capable of thinking and making their own choices. Yes, our backgrounds help shape us, but they don't make excuses for poor behaviors.

Here's what I feel: You have your own issues...as we all do...but you are trying to inject your issues into every body elses. A summary of what you have had to offer: 'Why don't you just suck it up?'. Well, I have done so since the mid- to late- '90's and I'm at the end of my rope, so here I am. There had been many good times, but this hasn't been one of them. I would ask that if you don't have anything constructive to say, please don't say anything.
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