This weekend i got the surprise of my life. MY FIL and MIL were here for a short visit - they live 1000 miles away. My husband has always had a stressful relationship with them - no matter that we are in our 50's - they come, feel like they can criticize all that we do, that we don't know anything - expect us to change when we eat, what we eat, wait on them hand and foot - completely take over. We have full time professional careers that they criticize, opinions that they criticize, parenting skill that they criticize. We have set boundaries but they still try to get us to knuckle under each and every visit "We are your parents, you should......" I am usually wild by the time they leave after 48 hours.
ANYWAY - the last day of their visit over lunch - before DH took them to the airport - they mentioned that they want us to consider buying a larger house (with their financial help) and that we move in together. They want to see more of our son as they age and then as they age, we can help them.
I was stunned. DH said "we'd think about it" and then we got into a huge fight when he came back from the airport. He has absolutely no experience with caregiving. when my dad was at home and i did respite care - my DH was not there. Not to see the decline, the combativeness, the incontinence, the meals thrown on the floor - the constant doctor appointments for hours at a time, the constant getting up a night. The stress and exhaustion that you all know so well. I was wrung out after just a weekend - imagine my step mom who did this for five years!
I feel they should buy into a continuing care community - where they start out with independent living, gradually add services for assisted living, then finally skilled nursing and memory care. They won't consider this because they expect their children to care for them (even though FIL's own mom went into a continuing care facility).
My DH is in his own fantasy world - picturing the Walton's existence, three generations around the dinner table enjoying each other & him finally having the good relationship with them that he never has. In reality - they complain about what we cook and use the dinner table to criticize what we do, how we live, how we raise our son, our opinions, etc. I can't believe he is seriously wanting us to do this.
We can't get along now with them. What about as they age and need more hands on help? it will be ME they expect to drop my job to take them on round after round of doctor appointments, clean for them, cook for them, etc. because i am a woman. My DH disappears when they get on his nerves and i have to deal with them.
Yet - we have fought about this several times since Sunday. He feels I'm "abandoning" his parents by not wanting to consider living with them. He won't look at this website to gain experience, or talk to co-workers going through this, or counseling about this, or listen to my step mom's experience with my dad.
I am going to see a counselor on my own. I have told DH that this is a deal breaker - i WILL NOT live with them. Have any of you dealt with a spouse with his head in the clouds? How do i get him to at least start asking about the experience of others? He wants me to try. My counter point is that this is awfully expensive and disruptive to "try" as we will never be able to unwind this fiasco - so research now. We are at an impasse. Thank you!
Thanks for being there, everyone.
Interesting - my FIL initiated a conversation with us about aging and what he was considering (assisted living etc) but as soon as my FIL started talking about this, my MIL shut him down "I'm not ready to talk about this!!!" almost screamed it out. It seems he is willing to consider some kind of senior living arrangement for more help when they need it for laundry, cooking, bathing etc. but my MIL is NOT.
My MIL had a private conversation with me that was a bit sad - she wanted me to say that she could live with us if she survives FIL. She refuses to consider any type of living other than their current house or ours. "I'm not going to some old people's home where they have stupid craft activities". She mentioned that she knows nothing of their finances except the bank name on the checks she writes for groceries and therefore I imagine she is afraid.
During the visit she kept harping on us about how small our house was and that our son needed more room (the kid has a bed room and a year round porch off his room and the run of the house and yard and he needs more room??) or that we need to host an exchange student sometime (WTF??) and she kept on my about retiring at 50 - so many children of her friends are retiring at 50 and they spend all kinds of time together and live together.
It came out during the private meeting that she is hoping (expecting) to live with us if she survives FIL. While i listened and empathized I told her as gently as i could that i was planning to work until 67 - the new retirement age - and that is almost 20 years, especially to get son through college and save for retirement. I also told her that while DH and I would help her find some place if she no longer could live in their house - that we were not planning on having anyone live with us.
Our house is paid off, the commute for all three of us is reasonable, and we plan on using any extra money for son's school and our retirement, not buying a larger house anywhere else.
I mentioned that our financial planner has people that could help her manage her funds if she survives FIL. That while we would not abandon her - we would not be taking over for FIL to make the decisions and have her live with us.
Overall she took it pretty well - THEN. She thinks i'm a softer touch than DH. She cried and said that we all (two sons and two DIL) going to throw her to the curb. I let her cry it out and reminded her that we would certainly help her. I also suggested that she start to picture surviving FIL and what that might mean for learning about their finances and thinking about living arrangements. That we would be happy to talk with her any time about her fears and concerns and what we might jointly find for her locally for senior services. She wouldn't talk about it any more. Then.
So she pulled DH aside the next day when DS and I were sent on an errand - and ripped into him. DH is smart - he called FIL into the room and told them they need to get on the same page for their elder planning as they obviously were not. THEN, they need to plan survivorship in each case, both FIL and MIL each as the surviving spouse. That while we would be around and would help -that we were not in a position to take someone in. This diverted FIL and MIL who started to have a fight with each other. He accusing her of always wanting someone to take care of her and she accusing him of making all the decisions without consulting her. Their same battle as long as i have known them.
The next day we came home. Aunt from old country called this morning to chew out DH but he politely said "MIL and FIL are not on same page - this is for them to resolve, not me" and hung up.
Interesting developments. I do think it is scary that they are over 80 and have not talked to each other about aging. Do they want to live at home and bring in care? Have they researched what is available locally for seniors? Would they consider assisted living at some point? etc. We will offer help researching or getting them into contact with local social workers, in fact - other DL is a social worker for the elderly in their area - she is a source of information but they are not talking to her.
More as the world turns in the next few months i am sure.
That probably gave them the idea that i like doing windows. They admired how clear the view was. My DH said "oh, i don't know. I miss the soft Italianate light filtered through dusty windows". Maybe we can say the light is softer if the window is dirty?
Wow, you owe your in-laws, they are toxic, I would never leave my child alone with anyone who belittles him in any way shape or form. Just my opinion. I would think about what transpired from your husband taking them to airport alone. They obviously have zero respect for you, or that conversation about house sharing would have included you. Protect your son, narsisists know no age boundaries. Sounds like a divide and conquer tactic, dad works on DH and grandma works on dear son, while mom is being degraded. IMHO.
Can't wait to hear how Easter plays out. By the way, Honor thy Father and Mother is about respect, Bible also says we leave father and mother and become one with our spouse, also says what God has joined together let no man put asunder. I love my Gods word and hate when people use it to be manipulating and bullying.
Ask for scripture reference, chapter and verse to help you understand when uncle uses it to belittle your DH. Maybe he will see how destructive using Gods word that way is and stop.
My DH said "no way in hell is she cleaning your windows. Your windows - your problem. if you can swing a golf club, you can swing a paper towel with Windex. We'll do it together" and his dad said "no" - housework is women's work. So my DH said NO.
I'm glad he stuck up for me. But we'll hear about it with all of the relatives over for Easter dinner how we (me) refuse to help elderly parents in failing health. I usually just smile and pretend i'm not listening and DH pushes back hard.
When my own father suggested living with us as he didn't have long to live - - - I told him, You have too long to live to live with us. And yes, he lived another 25 years.
If I was held accountable every time I said I'd think about it - - - suffice it to say, that is my standard answer if I know I'm not going to do something that is suggested to me.
I was shuddering a bit though as I thought of how the family developed the scenario and just expected you and your husband to accept it.
I'm so happy for both of you that the attempt to change your lives and force you into home care was thwarted, and that you made a stand against the assumptive and overbearing relatives.
Congratulations!
My DH has had alot of time to think since the blow ups previously and he stated politely and quietly "we have paid off our house, it is in a great location for our work commutes, and we like it. We are not moving"
Then I asked them what they were assuming would happen when we lived together. We found out that since I'm early 50's - that once i reached 55 I'd likely stop working and then would be available if they needed help - to the dr, etc. So i politely told them that i had no intention of stopping working at 55 - that i loved my career, that we needed to save for retirement and our son's college. In short - i could not afford to leave.
They expressed a lot of disappointment but it was not vitriolic. Later i found out my FIL had pulled my husband aside and asked him to promise to take care of MIL and "never put her in the nursing home". Bless my DH - he told his dad that that was a promise he couldn't make, that he saw how grandma needed nursing home care and how my dad needed nursing home care - that we were not full time nursing / hospital in our house.
My DH told my dad straight out - "you have made your own decisions all of your lives. Now you need to make plans for your aging - and loss of mobility especially and eventually loss of ability for ADL and mental capacity" what are your plans when you can no longer drive? etc.
Dad's response was "well that's why we expected you to step up" and my DH reminded his dad about his dad's mom - who chose to move to senior housing when she was 75 - then to assisted living - then to nursing home where she died at 99 1/2.
MIL and FIL were not happy - we got alot of snippy comments about the "young people of today" and self centeredness etc. which we ignored.
But, now it looks like living with us is put to bed. Hopefully they start planning for their future. They are 78 and 80 - no long term care insurance, house with stairs, yard to maintain and no plans for declining years.
And some good points made there, for others to remember (myself to name one). If spouse won't discuss it .. that still doesn't then mean that the other spouse has to acquiesce and go along with it.
Great points. So glad you are standing firm.
How long are the in-laws staying?
On Saturday my ILs called to give me flight information for their Thanksgiving visit. I spoke with them because DH was at work wrapping up the end of some work travel. Then they asked me how it was going getting a realtor. I decided to be truthful "we don't have a realtor nor have we been looking for one. This house is paid off, near our work and school, we are not selling it." Stunned silence.
So, as gently as i could - i asked them what they had pictured happening. As i thought, it was some Walton's view of us having family dinners together, they going to our son's activities. One big happy family even though we cannot agree on what to make for dinner or how clean and neat a house should be.
I asked them about their comment that we would "help them" as they aged (from their last visit when they asked us to "think about" this plan of living together.) Apparently some friend who was widowed last year moved to Arkansas near his daughter. She retired from teaching at age 55 and her kids are all in college or working. She therefore has free time to take him to the doctor and help him around his house. They thought that i would probably work less after 55 and be available for the little bit of driving they would need (little bit! ha!). When i asked about them needing more care like bathing they didn't say anything - they haven't really digested that they would need this kind of care someday (they are 80!! and they avoid thinking about decline)
I told them that neither DH nor I would be financially able to retire at 55, that we would likely be working at least 10 more years beyond that due to needing to fund our own retirement and help our son with college.
More stunned silence. I decided to wrap up the call before they could get angry and said "It looks like you made some assumptions that we just cannot meet, unfortunately. I'm glad we had this talk so you can adjust your plans" and then rang off.
When DH got home i told him about the conversation and when he got upset that i told them nada to the move because we had not had a chance to discuss it and come to a decision. I kind of shut him down "We've had weeks to discuss it and you have not wanted to. I've seen our therapist twice and have invited you to come and you haven't. I have seen no sign that you wanted to discuss it. I would be happy to, but we will discuss it with the help of our therapist - we'll get too angry and the conversation will get too emotional otherwise"
The @#$#$ hit the fan on Sunday (yesterday). They called DH breathing fire and since he had them on speaker phone in the next room i could hear a good bit. They were furious that he "let them down" about the living together plan. They said that while I was the kind of person who "dumped her dad" in a nursing home, they had expected better of him (even though my FIL's own mom went to a continuing care community - Independent Living to Assisted Living to Nursing Home). On and on it went and DH didn't even try to get a word in. It was pretty ugly but very much the standard when they get crossed. They were too angry to try to get him to agree to living together - they just wanted to shout at him. Then they hung up.
Then later in the day, his uncle on his dad's side called to let him know how hurt FIL was and that he needed to "honor his father and mother" (they thump the Bible to try to manipulate us) and told my DH he needed to "man up and take care of his responsibilities". My DH got one shot in and asked why then had their mom not lived with one of them and his uncle said "not the same situation" and hung up. Now DH is getting pretty boiled up about his parents, me, his uncle (as oldest brother uncle feels he is head of family and can tell all of his siblings and their children and grandchildren what to do). When he is angry, he goes silent..... until he has too much and blows.
Last straw was this morning - he got a wake up call at 5:30 am from aunt/uncle in the old country saying all of the same hurtful things that he already heard. He hung up on them and just started venting. I let it go on for awhile and then said
"You brought this on by letting time go by where your parents clearly thought you agreed to their plan. I don't even know if you agreed to it or not - you wouldn't discuss it with me. I only informed you that I would not be part of it. You've had plenty of time and opportunity to talk about this and you haven't and it didn't go away, but has become a nasty fight. I love you and want to work through this with you. Will you come with me to the therapist on Wednesday, when i have my next appointment?" and he agreed to come.
He went to work feeling pretty picked on and angry with the world. But i think any interest in trying to live with his parents pretty much went up in smoke. Now, we'll likely need our therapist help role-playing the "we intend to stay in our house" etc.
I think the next hurdle will be if they still want to move near us, how much are we willing to do for them. As angry as they were - i predict they'll stay in their house and keep leaning on my BIL/SIL to do for them as they currently do. I think Thanksgiving will be an "interesting" visit - they have already bought their tickets. I think they will still come - if they have given up the living together idea - it will be a visit of "you disappointed us". Worse case - they'll try to manipulate us into agreeing to their plan.
"Again, no, we're not calling a realtor. We are not interested in moving. We are happy living here by ourselves"
(They indicate that THEY are not happy)
"I understand that you would prefer that we accede to your wishes. But the answer is no, we're happy with our current living arrangements"
For some reason, some people are so concerned about making someone else feel bad......but, what about me feeling bad. That's more important to me. If I'm being put upon and taken advantage of, WHY would I feel bad. Better, that those who are ignoring my boundaries and disrespecting me to feel bad, rather than me. I think more could be worked out if the air was cleared and everyone knew where they stood.