This weekend i got the surprise of my life. MY FIL and MIL were here for a short visit - they live 1000 miles away. My husband has always had a stressful relationship with them - no matter that we are in our 50's - they come, feel like they can criticize all that we do, that we don't know anything - expect us to change when we eat, what we eat, wait on them hand and foot - completely take over. We have full time professional careers that they criticize, opinions that they criticize, parenting skill that they criticize. We have set boundaries but they still try to get us to knuckle under each and every visit "We are your parents, you should......" I am usually wild by the time they leave after 48 hours.
ANYWAY - the last day of their visit over lunch - before DH took them to the airport - they mentioned that they want us to consider buying a larger house (with their financial help) and that we move in together. They want to see more of our son as they age and then as they age, we can help them.
I was stunned. DH said "we'd think about it" and then we got into a huge fight when he came back from the airport. He has absolutely no experience with caregiving. when my dad was at home and i did respite care - my DH was not there. Not to see the decline, the combativeness, the incontinence, the meals thrown on the floor - the constant doctor appointments for hours at a time, the constant getting up a night. The stress and exhaustion that you all know so well. I was wrung out after just a weekend - imagine my step mom who did this for five years!
I feel they should buy into a continuing care community - where they start out with independent living, gradually add services for assisted living, then finally skilled nursing and memory care. They won't consider this because they expect their children to care for them (even though FIL's own mom went into a continuing care facility).
My DH is in his own fantasy world - picturing the Walton's existence, three generations around the dinner table enjoying each other & him finally having the good relationship with them that he never has. In reality - they complain about what we cook and use the dinner table to criticize what we do, how we live, how we raise our son, our opinions, etc. I can't believe he is seriously wanting us to do this.
We can't get along now with them. What about as they age and need more hands on help? it will be ME they expect to drop my job to take them on round after round of doctor appointments, clean for them, cook for them, etc. because i am a woman. My DH disappears when they get on his nerves and i have to deal with them.
Yet - we have fought about this several times since Sunday. He feels I'm "abandoning" his parents by not wanting to consider living with them. He won't look at this website to gain experience, or talk to co-workers going through this, or counseling about this, or listen to my step mom's experience with my dad.
I am going to see a counselor on my own. I have told DH that this is a deal breaker - i WILL NOT live with them. Have any of you dealt with a spouse with his head in the clouds? How do i get him to at least start asking about the experience of others? He wants me to try. My counter point is that this is awfully expensive and disruptive to "try" as we will never be able to unwind this fiasco - so research now. We are at an impasse. Thank you!
Your husband has likely been programmed from a very early age to appease his parents; it takes time to undo that. This comes from someone who also has parents with no boundaries, and I was always the "fixer" and appeaser. That's not a healthy way to live.
A couple of things stood out to me, regarding the conversation with your in-laws:
1) They want to come out for Thanksgiving and look at houses, and 2) they told your husband he "should" be getting together with a realtor.
Those two things alone indicate that they are already trampling your boundaries. They apparently didn't ask, "So, have you thought about our proposal to move in together? What do you think?" Nope, they just "announced" what they're doing. That's not ok, that's abusive bullying, plain and simple.
If it were me, I would nip this in the bud right now, and tell them in no uncertain terms that you will NOT be talking to a realtor yet because you haven't yet decided what to do, (at least hubby hasn't) and you will not be looking at houses with them Thanksgiving weekend. Set expectations up front, so that you can fall back on it later. I've read way too many stories of people who were afraid to confront their narcissistic parents, and got bullied into doing something they didn't want to do, simply because they had never said "No."
I also would be wary of spending Thanksgiving with them, because it will be miserable, and they will probably be guilting/bullying you the whole time. Been there, done that! Maybe you and your husband and son can go somewhere on vacation for Thanksgiving, and have a family "pow-wow" to decide what the 3 of you want to do about this. Let the in-laws know this is your plan, if you go that route. In other words, don't just skip town. Tell them that you're not comfortable looking at houses yet, you don't want to argue about it over Thanksgiving, so the 3 of you will be spending time together as a family, to think about the situation. Will they get mad? Of course! But that's their problem, not yours.
Another thought to consider is that they may simply buy a house on their own, quite near you, if you refuse to move in with them. And if they do move closer to you, will it be any better? Probably not. They'll be at your doorstep constantly, intruding on personal family time, and more or less making you miserable. There's a reason that the show "Everybody Loves Raymond" was so popular - it's because so many people can relate!
Best of luck with this!
I hope you get the support you need from your husband. How in the world would he be comfortable living under those conditions? I don't get it.
I think that in some situations, multiple generations can live together, but, you have to have the right personalities and behavior. I grew up in a house with great grandparents and grandparents and it was awesome, but, that kind of thing is rare today.
Yesterday (Sunday) was the weekly call with my DH and his parents. They want to come out at Thanksgiving to visit but also to look at houses - something with a separate space for them. They mentioned to DH that DH should be getting together with a realtor and someone who can give us advice on staging our house for sale.
When the call was over, I came into the kitchen and said "I will welcome your mom and dad for Thanksgiving and we will enjoy a great meal and a great day together. However; I will NOT be looking at houses. If you want to move in with your parents - fine, but I will not sell this house and move into a house with you and your parents. They are independent now but as they age we will be expected to provide care that we do not have the training or time to do. Don't you remember how quickly my dad went from independence to needing his diaper changed? He is younger than your dad. If you want to sit down and talk with me, I am ready. I just wanted you to know my position. By the way, I'm meeting the therapist on Wednesday - you are welcome to come with me."
He did not say much and we didn't fight. I think he was surprised that the idea his parents floated last Sunday seemed to be an agreed upon plan in their minds and i think it rattled him a lot. He is someone who takes time to make major decisions.
We had a soccer tournament yesterday and didn't talk about this at all, but I noticed that when I woke up around 2am - he was not in bed. He was downstairs thinking and was up the rest of the night. To me, that is a good sign.
I so appreciate having you guys in my cheering section!
I'm hoping she can help me start to understand and find ways to help my DH open up about what all of this means to him so that maybe he'll remember how he liked working with her and we both go and deal with this. I think he will eventually - he is normally a very kind man.
For Churchmouse - my FIL corrected my MIL that The Hobbit/Lord of the Rings wasn't a "classic" and her response - "well - it was a movie!" and didn't want to hear anything about when it was written or by whom - just found other things to complain about.
My INLAWS and DH have a tendancy to assume "things will be different and better" without doing the underlying anlaysis of why we have a hard time getting along, what each of us might contribute to the issues, how we can make things better. Then when we go on a long vacation together and my DH and INLAWS are fighting all of the time, they are all surprised, except for me. My INLAWS assume DH should just do what they say or mind read what they want. My DH thinks they should respect his independence and opinions since he is a grown man. He usually ends up hibernating from them and they end up blaming me. Example from his visit to them (without me) this summer - his mom (who is from eastern Europe) was complaining that my DH is "too American" but he never really understood why that was bad and what the problem was with him being too American. (DH was born here and his dad is 10th generation). This kind of nonsense.
One is that regardless of whether parents move in with you, husband's feelings about wanting them to move in need to be explored.
This is one of those things that can pop up in times of marital stress over and over throughout the years if you don't come to an agreement that you both can not only deal with but feel good about.
An acknowledgment that you understand each other's feelings on the subject and want to focus on a solution. It may take some work to figure out what those feelings really are.
Ideally this whole situation could allow your marriage to become stronger if you work through it rather than argue about it.
A process to work through and come to terms with your spouses feelings and a successful outcome for both of you could be a cornerstone of your marriage, a way to deal with issues that you may have swept under the rug otherwise to reappear over and over.
A way to deal with other problems that might present in the future.
Once you've negotiated to your mutual satisfaction any problem, the process is useful for other problems.
If husband explores his reasons for wanting them to move in, then possibly he can look for other, less invasive or encroaching ways, to achieve the result he is looking for. One with much more of a chance to succeed.
Not in an effort to prove that you were right about not living with them, but in an effort to forge the relationship he wishes he had or to come to peace with the fact that he has had his childhood, that he is now a husband and parent and provider. The future of your family depends on how he fulfills those roles already on his agenda.
The second thought is how and what to tell his parents as to why this isn't the best solution for your family. Although you are flattered that they would want to live with you, that won't be an option. To tell them in a way that allows them to stay connected and feel supported and not rebuffed and to open the door for a discussion on the best way for them to live out the next quarter of their lives.
To discuss how that might look for them and for your family.
A discussion about what your involvement could be, not what it won't be. That might be what your husband is wanting too. A way to help. He may see his only gift is to allow them to move in when really there is so much more that needs to be done at this stage.
A visit with a good elder attorney for legal documents for starters.
A thorough physical and mental evaluation to determine the baseline for their health would be helpful. DH should accompany them on those type appointments to develop a knowledge base of where they are financially, physically and emotionally.
Choosing a city or location to live in so that they can be close enough to the medical and social services that are important to them should be well thought out and to discuss which city, yours or theirs, is a better choice for their lifestyle, making sure you don't make promises that you might not be able to keep. ( Perhaps you and/or your husband get an opportunity to relocate that you don't want to pass up? If parents have moved to be near you, then what? )
There are many posts on this website about parents who are far away and difficult to care for. The parents (on those posts) have gotten too far advanced in dementia or health issues to be able to make good decisions on their own, the children are too far away to deal effectively. It's a big decision.
Hobbies or special interests to keep them feeling useful and busy might be discussed. They would need to develop a life of their own and not be in a tag along position in your lives. They have to have something to occupy them to keep them from interfering in your life.
Then my last thought is that with all the criticism you mention going on, perhaps DH parents think things are so amok at your house that you really need their help with all those things you mentioned. After all, You both work, the son is needing a firmer hand, yada, yada, yada.
Good luck and keep us informed.
Tell him that he will have to provide ALL the hands-on care. That means he will have to start with quitting his job so he is home always to take care of them. It will be up to him to do what needs to be done. If he thinks this is too much...ask him"why won't you do this? You are the one going on and on about abandoning your parents! ".
Or...how about he takes a 2 week vacation and goes to spend all that time wo care for his parents. I bet he comes back with a new perspective. One week should make him into a basket case.....
Oh wow...just do whatever you have to...but do not do this. It would be great to shock DH back into the real world.....
Don't start me on Harry sodding Potter though.
* A reading in a pub in Oxford itself was greeted by the heckle "ugh! not more f***ing elves!"
Allow him to save face.
I suspect that you generally act as a buffer when they are around. This might give him an inkling of what life with them on a daily basis might be like.
Try not to fight in front of your son!
Regardless, this has "disaster" written all over it.
You've already had a lot of good advice. I think the issue now is holding your family together, protecting your son, opening your husband's eyes to the tornado which would happen if they moved in, and similar issues.
Perhaps you can take an opposite viewpoint, be as aggressive as the in-laws are, and hopefully deter them that way. List everything they criticize, including your son's musical talent, and create a counter behavior that disallows their action. I.e., they can't make any comments about your son's musical talents.
Complete the list with "can'ts" and make it clear that it will be very restrictive. You could also throw in something like they are responsible for their own laundry, cleaning their own rooms, etc.
Make it so obnoxious that they either literally go up in smoke from anger or hopefully recognize that they're not going to run roughshod over you.
Do you have the nerve to stand up to them when they're making these obnoxious remarks? I know it's hard. I've been in that situation and was in shock for a few moments and only later thought of clever things I should have said.
As to your husband, you might fake it and play along with him, suggesting he take time off from work before he arranges for FMLA time, and spend a few weeks getting used to taking care of them. Remind him he'll need to know how to change depends and do the clean-up work associated with that. Tell him you'll give him recipes so he can learn to cook for them, or perhaps learn their own preferences.
Just be so clear that your husband will be doing all the work because YOU won't.
I don't know if that would work, and it's a hard thing to do to almost deliberately be uncooperative, but I don't see a good beginning or end to the in-laws meddling and threats.
In the meantime, you might want to research IL or AL facilities in their area. They probably would be insulted, but at this point, they're overbearing, insulting, meddling and more, so I wouldn't worry about their feelings.
And you may have to give your husband an ultimatum. If he wants to care for them, he can do so, but without you, your son and your home.
Good luck.
Kimber, my husband watched me build a better relationship with my mother after 20 years of almost no contact. BUT we did not live together. We had visits that lasted less than 3 days at a time and she only stayed at our house 1-2 times per year - she usually stayed at hotel. My mom LOVED our son, and she knew that criticism and bad attitude would mean that I would cut things off again. My mother and I independently had years of cognitive behavioral therapy. She went through 12-step program. I can be a slow learner when I love somebody, but the dysfunction in house growing up led to 20 years no-contact for a reason. Anyway, my husband had idea that parents living near us would mean "better/closer relationship". See how good your mother and you were able to make your relationship? WE WORKED AT IT, HUBBY! When in-laws moved 60 miles away, they complained because WE didn't drive up enough but would not call to make plans. Only contact other than "we need this done" calls was my husband calling them. I suggested that he actually talk with them and see what they thought relationship should be. My in-laws told him that relationship was exactly what they wanted - my hubs involved when they needed help or something done, or if they called to have him come right away. Not info sharing, not planning long term care for two frail health people that moved near for help but wouldn't explain what they needed. My husband still longs for the closer relationship, but their own words showed him what their truth was. We STILL have the dysfunctional calls and you must summons, but there is no question about whether I am obligated to go. He can't sell the house without you. He can't buy new house without you. This is dysfunctional power play and little boy wanting to please. It's kinda off-putting in terms of a husband and adult relationship, but he can't just move them in. That is what a hotel is for if he does....
However, last night my husband picked my son up from school (son is 9) and son burst into tears in the car and said he doesn't want to live with grandma and grandpa. He's heard our arguments about it. My Inlaws, especially my MIL, have certain ideas about what my son should be. My MIL criticizes him when he practices vioin (she was a piano teacher for 1 or 2 years - but lost her students fast) until i finally told her to back off, we have a teacher. She criticizes how we do bed time - that we sit with him for a few minutes after lights out. We don't stay with him until he falls asleep - but the routine is reading, lights out, and some little chat. That is usually the time of day when we find out what is really on his mind. She criticizes his books - Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter - and thinks he should be reading "classics". My FIL makes fun of my son for not wanting to throw the football -my son is a very strong soccer player.
Anyway - DH normally is like a poppa bear and protects our son from his parents - tells them to back the h*ll off. Now, he took this as a sign that our son needs to get to know them better so that they can have a good relationship. I asked DH why he thinks more time and closer living would mean a better relationship if it just means more opportunity to criticize. DH thinks that we would all understand each other and therefore be nicer to each other if we saw each other daily and under the same roof.
I had printed out sections from this site "do you regret having your parents move in with you" and reminded him of his coworkers going through h*ll. He is not ready to hear it.
On a funny side - i mentioned this to my mom. Her reaction "if anyone is moving in with you, it will be me! They have plenty of money and i'm broke" so we got into that argument again. No one is moving in with me!!
My sister - who is normally on my side - was critical that i was so selfish. She has a bad situation as a stay at home mom - her DH is always giving two mooching brothers money to pay mortgage, car tires, liens off cars, etc - several thousands of dollars a year. She said it was about time that i faced the real world. It sounds like she is pi$$y that i so far have not had to deal with family issues like hers.
Thank you for all of your support - i'm not going to let myself be talked into this or persuaded to "try". I'm going to try not to engage on the topic until i sense DH either getting less emotional and wishful thinking OR starting to move ahead.
thank you all!
Hmmmm, let me have a good think about that NO."
I have the same kind of family, and if they EVER offered this arrangement to us, it would be a resounding "heck no!!!" from me. Here's the thing:
Every normal person desires a good relationship with their parents. That's natural. And if we DON'T have that good relationship, it's very painful. No matter how old we are, that little boy or girl inside us wants to hang onto any shred of hope that the relationship can get better, or that someday we'll have that "Waltons" style family we've always dreamed of. But I'm very sorry to say, that almost never happens. Your husband's parents are NOT going to change.
Here's a quote from Maya Angelou that has helped me, when it comes to my parents, and giving them one more chance:
"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."
I know that this is hard for your husband. But, he needs to really look at this, and I do believe that counseling helps. If he refuses that, it's his choice, but this is your life, too. This would be a deal breaker for me. Stand your ground.
Another story - my good friend's father passed away, and so they pooled funds with her mother, and bought a larger house for their entire family (8 people, including my friend, her husband and 5 kids, and her mom). It's been a NIGHTMARE! And they had a good relationship with her mom before they moved in together. Unfortunately, her mom now sees the house as ONLY "her house". They aren't allowed to decorate as a "family", it's her mom's decorating way, or the highway. She throws fits if she doesn't get to watch what SHE wants on TV, all the time, every day. The kids have taken to hiding in their rooms, just to get away. There's more, but you get the gist.
Something to ask your husband: If your husband's parents help you financially to buy a larger house for all of you, do you REALLY think they would let it feel like your home, too? I'm guessing they wouldn't. And if they criticize you now, how much more will they criticize, when you have to make decisions together? And I'm talking about everything from the big decisions (which area to buy in, will they move to you, or will they try to guilt you into moving closer to them), all the way down to the little things that people don't think about, like whose furniture to put where, whose plates and silverware to use, what color to paint the walls, what pictures to put up...there are a lot of things to consider, but realize that this situation would be like roommates from h*ll, only you can never leave! Please don't give in to this!!
Hope everything works out, let us know how it goes.
DH was visiting them for four days this summer (i had to work) and came home completely frazzled. They get on each others' nerves.
The above is why this is such a shock to me - DH and i have always been on the same page with his parents - have the relationship we can, but don't get trampled. His mom is from a poor country where the kids took care of the parents and served them (or so she thinks). Yet she did not do this for her in laws here or her mum in the old country.
My DH is, i think, saddened that as his parents hit their 80's - their mobility is going downhill, their friends have mostly died, and they are getting lonely. He is mourning the lack of good relationship with them. He somehow pictures this ideal of larger house = individual space would work. Yet, no amount of space will change their feeling that we should do as they wish because they are the elders, bossing and nagging us, and the constant patter of criticism. His mom still complains about his hair and he is 53. Ramp it up from their to his posture, his job, etc etc etc
I mentioned in my first post that they floated the idea only. It is in the initial stages. Yet, knowing my DH, he won't want to confront the fact that we all get along if we are not under the same roof and only for a few days at a time. He is a very logical man in every other area of his life, a wonderful husband, and father.
Hopefully since my IN LAWS are just in the beginning stage and nothing is rushing - i have time to get him to take the emotion/wishful thinking out and realistically look at this. Right now he sees their suggestion as them wanting to have a good relationship with him in their last few years and he wants that too.
BUT, i have read too much here, experienced too much myself, seen too many women co-workers stressed, angry, guilty, and the whole gamut to think naively that we can achieve the Waltons. This will be the hill i die on.
Thank you, thank you, thank you - for all of the support.
-undermining and interference in parenting, often with the kid present
-teenage kids and older will become scarce due to stressful environment
-hearing conversations between spouses and insert themselves into the conversation, creating discord
-power struggle over the running of the household - expectation that household should run as theirs did
-because they're living with their kids, they may tell people they don't really have a home ("I'm a nomad")
-expectation of inclusion in all social activities. If the activity is not suitable or of interest to parent, changes are to be made to accommodate. This includes vacations.
-huge conflicts between parents and adult children, as parents will expect to continue their idea that you are to do as they wish you to.
-money will probably come into play
And this is not even touching on the whole caregiving aspect .....
I think that for each caregiver who looks back at "how in the world did I get HERE?", there's that one pivotal point where we zigged when we should've zagged.
This is yours. Hold fast. Re-read your first paragraph and amplify it thousands of times.
The only way that it can work to move the elderly into the home is if BOTH the husband and wife are so committed to what it will take to see it through.
It's a "decent" suggestion that someone else made, perhaps they'd like to move to IL nearby with graduation from there to AL, and NH. That too, will have it's pitfalls .. but at least it's not right under your roof.
He is being unreasonable and I would dig in my heels!
My husband too, thought the "yellow bedroom" (guest bedroom in our home) would be a suitable setting for his mother to take up residence. Mind you, I think he's taken her to maybe 1 or 2 of the hundreds, if not thousands, of doc appointments she's had through the years as she has aged and become more frail. No, no and no!
Stand firm.