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Patient is in beginning stages of dementia. Gave medical POA to daughter but regrets decision. Prefers I take over and I am willing to do so. How do we proceed?
The profile indicates that this is an ex partner of someone in a nursing home.
I, also, would advise caution in altering long standing arrangements.
What has changed since the original MPOA?
Did one of them move further away so that communication and timely response is an issue?
Have the person’s end of life wishes changed? I can see someone in a nursing home for a broken hip finding out that they are in “the beginning stages of dementia” and needing to change their MPOA. If they are there because they can no longer live safely alone, it is difficult to see them making a well thought out change.
They would change the MPOA by creating a new document with the same formality as its predecessor. If this is necessary, be very gentle in facilitating the change so as not to damage the relationships. Leave the DPOA alone; once someone is in a nursing home, dealing with their finances is usually a thankless task so leave those arrangements undisturbed.
Thanks. Good advice. The only thing that has changed since the original MPOA was established is that I am now willing to be an MPOA whereas before I was not. Unfortunately, I'm not sure my friend was competent enough to sign the original MPOA document, let alone sign a new one. I'm not looking for a battle. I just want to help out a person who is very important to me and who happens to be more comfortable with me than he is with his daughter.
How you proceed, is you don't. I was an in-home caregiver for almost 25 years. I have had dozens of elderly clients that I worked for privately who wanted me to take over their POA because they thought their kids weren't 'doing enough' or they were delusional from dementia. Do not open that Pandora's Box and take POA for an elderly client with dementia. Even if their dementia is mild. No way. Don't do it. It's not worth the serious trouble you could get into.
Try not to get involved with a family POA that has already been given. You have access to your friend and are talking about it which can be seen by the daughter as a form of plotting. You are an outsider in the eyes of the family. There is such a thing as undue influence. I suggest you read the warning signs in this link https://alzfdn.org/undue-influence/ If you want to start a legal fight for a person already diagnosed with dementia, this could be legally costly.
It depends on how far the Dementia has progressed. Medical is the easiest POA. The patient has already put in the Medical what he wants and doesn' want. All the person assigned needs to do is carry that out. They are just a voice. They are just a contact for Doctors and staff. The assigned just says, no thats not what the patient wants. The assigned carries out the patients request.
Could you elaborate on the issue of how far the dementia has progressed? How is this determined? Also, is it necessary to be medical POA in order to speak with physicians or other caregivers? Can the patient himself provide the necessary permissions or must the medical POA do that? Thanks for you help.
—of course there are exceptions—but sometimes a hired caregiver wants control, wants to grab the money (i know OP’s question APPARENTLY refers to “medical” POA, but still…). of course there are sometimes family members who abuse POA too.
anyway, careful responding.
there’s a conflict of interest when the hired caregiver is also POA (whether medical or not).
POA document is sometimes called a licence to steal.
if the POA’s patient is fully, legally mentally competent, the patient could have easily answered the question how to go about it since they’ve already done it before for their daughter.
the fact that the patient didn’t answer the question is suspicious.
Wow. First, I'm not a hired caregiver. I am the patient's partner although we are not married. Second, there is no money involved. Third, the patient didn't request that his daughter become Medical POA. The daughter took that upon herself and used her influence to get the patient to sign. Finally, nothing subversive or undue is going on here. It's just a guy that wants someone else to manage his medical appointments. Why all the suspicion?
You and the patient need to go to an elder law attorney. There the attorney will take the patient aside privately interview him/her to assess if this person has legal capacity to create a new PoA, and is not under pressure from whoever brought him/her to the attorney. If the PoA is successfully changed, the daughter will need to be informed that she is no longer his/her PoA. If you don't do this, she has no other way to know she no longer has authority and it could cause problems.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
I, also, would advise caution in altering long standing arrangements.
What has changed since the original MPOA?
Did one of them move further away so that communication and timely response is an issue?
Have the person’s end of life wishes changed? I can see someone in a nursing home for a broken hip finding out that they are in “the beginning stages of dementia” and needing to change their MPOA. If they are there because they can no longer live safely alone, it is difficult to see them making a well thought out change.
They would change the MPOA by creating a new document with the same formality as its predecessor. If this is necessary, be very gentle in facilitating the change so as not to damage the relationships. Leave the DPOA alone; once someone is in a nursing home, dealing with their finances is usually a thankless task so leave those arrangements undisturbed.
How you proceed, is you don't.
I was an in-home caregiver for almost 25 years. I have had dozens of elderly clients that I worked for privately who wanted me to take over their POA because they thought their kids weren't 'doing enough' or they were delusional from dementia.
Do not open that Pandora's Box and take POA for an elderly client with dementia. Even if their dementia is mild. No way. Don't do it.
It's not worth the serious trouble you could get into.
If you want to start a legal fight for a person already diagnosed with dementia, this could be legally costly.
—of course there are exceptions—but sometimes a hired caregiver wants control, wants to grab the money (i know OP’s question APPARENTLY refers to “medical” POA, but still…). of course there are sometimes family members who abuse POA too.
anyway, careful responding.
there’s a conflict of interest when the hired caregiver is also POA (whether medical or not).
POA document is sometimes called a licence to steal.
if the POA’s patient is fully, legally mentally competent, the patient could have easily answered the question how to go about it since they’ve already done it before for their daughter.
the fact that the patient didn’t answer the question is suspicious.