Any ideas on how to tame down manipulation?
I was told yesterday by someone who worked in Geriatics they thought my Father is not that ill he is faking it and manipulating. He started in again last night. It seems to me that if he cannot get to me he get's to my Son.
My Son, who is 10 is seeing this. When My Father is givien a small task he seems to make an issue out of it. Last night he was asked to cook a small meal for my Son. HE seemed in a good mood. HE will offer my Son noodles or pancakes regardless of what is here. It is not all the time, but at least once a week. HE will then say there is nothign else to cook (even if there is). HE then tries to argue over mundane things and my Son is picking this up.
My SOn's anxiety ahs been way high and upon talkign to my Dad several times abotu the elevated voice, the yelling, and the arguing, he continues. I have tried to purchase items that my Son can cook for himslef but now we are out.
IT seems to me that if my Dad does nto want to do soemthing he creates an issue. HE did say last night he wanted to cook but coudlnt' see items in the Pantry and insited (i was nauseas as hecK) he coudl nto see any food. HE took over and hour and a half and got up out of his chair once, to see what there was and offered my Son, food he did not eat. IT then reverted to, "I am nto getting up you get up and SHOW ME." I knew the game and refused.
The pantry was stocked. To try and minimize my SOns' stress I offered him and omelet. Dad had ate all the margarine and instead of getting more or writing it down on a list as I had suggested, we were out. That seems to happen more than not. HE will eat something, finish it off and not write it down. If he does write it down he does not show me, or does not pick it up.
I do not think the issue is food. I think my Father want's me responsible for everything. HE wants to sit and be fed. HE also neglects personal affairs (financial and doctoral) until I do them. The majority of the day he sits. HE does nto handle bills. HE does not handle personal affairs. I do not want to enable.
If my Son wasn't' present, I could handle these things in a different manner. IT seems when my Son is home that is when my Father makes waves. The majority of the day (when my Son is not home) he does not do this.
I am trying to figure out how to minimize my Son's exposure without having to leave the home as my SOn needs his routine. My Fahter has now gone to extremes with purposely making messes, not picking them up, and instigating arguments.
I have asked him to please go to the Library at night. I am concerned about my Son's anxiety. My Son has even talked to my Dad about behaviors and how upset he get's and last night my Son actually asked my Father to stop and he carried on.
I think the woman who worked in Geriatrics. who has heard the bulk of what my Father does believes it is more manipulation as he is miserable and wants to bring every one else down. He has been diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder.
Does anyone have any coping skills that I can use for myself or to minimize the anxiety my Son has over my Father's behavior without having to live in a separate residences?
I have tried ignoring my Father, but it seems he just does other things to get a response out of me or it seems to create an argument. I cannot grasp the fact that my Father wants to upset my Son. I do not get it.
Please try and be a little gentle on responses as at this point I am extremely upset. I think my Son comes home from school expecting to get upset. This concerns me greatly.
On another note; My Father promised my Son he would not behave in the certain manners (yelling, fighting, etc.) However he continues to do so. I am aware it takes two to argue, so I try my best to bite my tongue. However the smallest things that I say lead into a debate when my Father is upset. I try very hard not to debate back (around my Son) and I think my Dad knows this and makes every effort to get me to respond.
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His psychiatrist recommended a group for him to get him out with no cost. They do fishing, etc. He will not call to inquire. He also has a tendency to blow off appointments, etc.
What is difficult for me to comprehend is I see he is capable of some things. He just flat out refuses. You remind him he still refuses and at times the "reminder" is perceived by him as nagging at which point he may use the "nagging" as an excuse to blow up.
For right now I am coping by not asking him to do much as it is only creating an emotionally hostile environment. He has been sitting on the current to do list now for over two weeks (that started with one task and now has maybe 4).
Oddly when he had his Neuropsych appointment without reminders, he took a shower and went all by himself. He even remembered the time.
If your dad is of the age when women did all that kind of work, then as the others have mentioned, it's not likely you will change him. Is his income adequate to afford a hired caregiver-aide for a few hours day? Even a few hours, timed to work best for all of your family's needs, will be money well-spent.
Good luck to you, and don't wear yourself out.
You just take away the chaos and emotional drama by taking control. You're basically running a nursing home. Nursing home caregivers need to assert control. That's why visitors believe they are so 'mean'. If they didn't assert this type of control, and routine, patients would be everywhere. In order to do this, they see it as a job and can disassociate.
One way to keep order is to treat patients all the same because the reality is these illnesses present and run basically the same course. While the personality traits may be different, the underlying disorders are the same.
So, you don't yell from the couch while you're watching tv to say to your dad, "Take your meds". You literally shut off the tv, get the medication, with the water, and say, with a happy face, sing songy voice, "Time to take your meds!" And you stand there and watch. This is going to take time and may take a few fake calls to the 'social worker' you've been talking with at the hospital.
BTW, One absolute is you have to accompany your dad into the doctor's office. To do this you need a health care proxy and permission from your dad to go into the doctor's office. You need to hear from the doctor's mouth what the doctor said, not hear what your dad said he said.
If you're living in his house, and he has dementia, you need to get a POA to do what's next. If he has dementia, you're in 'control'. Note: IF HE HAS DEMENTIA, that's the way it works. I believe people w/dementia work best when they're no longer fearful. There's more comfort in knowing they're being cared for, so they no longer feel scared. So, he's no longer the parent, you are. But you don't do this without some sort of empathy, because, after all, he is your dad.
Someone above or in another board, mentioned meditation techniques. I don't know whether you download your music or use CDs, but I have a CD player in my bedroom. I also have one set up in her bedroom. Each day we have nap time (and believe me, my mother didn't like naptime at first, now she just goes in). Why? Because I needed naptime. I didn't care what she did in her room as long as she was in there for at least an hour.
So, at naptime, I go in and listen to the CD. At first it was all the time. Now that I've learned the techniques, I can do it pretty much anywhere. The best one I've found is Roberta Shapiro, she has a set of three. I know Amazon has it.
Once your dad is on his meds and once you've settled into a routine, you can then punch in a little love here and there. You can go out a little bit, walk, do stuff together if he's able and bring your ten year old with you.
Your son is too young to have good coping skills for dealing with the situation. It's understandably impossible for you to buffer for him all the time or successfully minimize his exposure until your Dad is out of the house (even though you try).
But you can, if you haven't already, inform the school (his teacher and/or principal) there are problems at home. A good way to start is by saying “I need your help.” Just relate facts: Your dad (son's grandfather) lives with you. He has been diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder. He's (you fill in the adjectives--example argumentative, uncooperative, emotionally explosive). Your son is stressed. And while you’re working on changing things with your dad, you need their help.
Assuming your son is in a half-decent school, help is available: teacher, school psychologist, and/or social worker. The latter 3 have specific training.
If his teacher is sensitive, s/he has probably realized something is happening. S/he can be supportive by simply being a good listener. In addition, letting your son know sometimes stuff happens; and that your son is a good kid; and if he wants to talk about stuff the teacher is there for him--is also helpful and supportive, but not necessary. If your son likes another adult in the school (last year’s teacher??) that’s another support possibility.
Getting help from school personnel can also relieve you a bit to focus on what you need to do re: your Dad.
PS. A divorce expert wrote “even 8-year-olds can vacuum” (to help their newly-single mom). So your son can make dinner. (Give your son a simple can opener, hide the can of spaghetti from Dad, and avoid a potentially unpleasant problem,) Good luck.
I hope you get a doctors diagnosis and perhaps there are meds to help.
Otherwise, perhaps AL is needed. Hugs.
The situation you are in is what it is nothing is going to change. All the rules in the world that dad agrees to won't make him follow them. Do not give him tasks to do ahead of time he will forget by accident or on purpose. When you need something done like taking out the garbage sweeping the front path ask him at the time to do it. He wont bring his dirty laundry downstairs so when you are ready tell him to go and get it Don't ask him to bring anything important back from the store because he will "forget" it because he can and that gets a reaction from you. Go with him to the Dr appointments and tell them which drugs he has been forgetting. maybe he does not need them. Put his meal on the table at the same time as you and your sons. Call him to the table and if he does not come tell him a second time. If you and your son have finished and he is still in front of the TV just to bug you pack it up and put it in the freezer for another day. Tell him you threw it out as he was not interestedHe is welcome to make something else for himself. It certainly sounds as though dementia or something is going on with him and if it turns out to be dementia all bets are off and clearly you can not all remain under the same roof. he clearly takes great pleasure in getting a reaction from you maybe it is him maybe it is the disease but he is unlikely to change so you are the one who needs to take action and let others manage him. No he won't come home cured and behave himself because he knows he has to or go back wherever he has been. He will swear he has learned his lesson and is so sorry for everything he has put you through and anything else he can think of to get back home. But once through the door the model behaviour will go out the window. You are the one in charge now. You are the woman of the house not his daughter who has come home because she is sick and can't manage on her own so dig out your big girl panties you will be glad you did. learn all you can about dementia but a ten year old is too young to be involved in anything but the basics. let him be a child as long as he can and keep him away from Grandpa as much as possible.
Jeannie has learned the hard way a lot about mental illness and dementia so listen to her advice.
I am holding on to hope that after the diagnosis he can get help and the symptoms become more manageable. I think that the behaviors have gone on so long now I am getting to burnout. To lesson readers worries my Son has a MT and a psychiatrist.
If my Father does not get better with treatment I am very aware I will have to place him somewhere as the impact on myself and my Son is more important than my morals. I do feel though that my Father deserves the "chance" to get better. I Would want it for me, however if I start treating my child as a slave, I would rather have them not deal with me.
Also, my gf comes to my home quite a bit and thank GOD he refrains from a lot when she is here. He responds better to her than I.
Has anyone successfully done a rule chart? I think that may be the next step at the moment. We can all sit down, make rules and consequences on a list together to try and lesson the negative behaviors.
I still feel inadequate due to the constant verbal and emotional abuse. Do something for your son now before it leaves permanent scars. Protect your son.
Another issue I do not understand is when you have a list how you forget to do it. He has put off calling an attorney for months now. I try hard not to constantly baggier him to do things however some things are now getting way out of hand with his finances. I have taken over most of the bills, but payment agreements etc need to be done by him. He refuses to do the paperwork most of the time. Leads me to another question on how to determine what he can do vs. what he doesn't' want to and enabling?
He needs professional management. You are deceiving yourself and decreasing your dad's functioning if you keep him at home. People function better (if they are able) in a professional, less emotionally involved center.
Your are ruining your life and your son's.
His "anger" can shift. HE can be completely angry and acting out but if there is a new person in the picture his mood shifts and he acts as if he is perfectly fine. I do not if he had dementia he could do that.
I personally am at my limit. Another issue is due to my physical ailments I cannot work. I am somewhat reliant on his help financially and he is aware of that. We ended up together shortly after they found the rare curvature in my spine. The initial reason he was with me was my health. He now tells other she wouldn't feel "right" leaving me. The issues now are he feels he cannot live without me. This all should be working hand in hand it is not.
I do think some of the negative behavior comes from a mental issue. I am not sure how much. It is very odd how it all plays out. I am thinking a lot of it MAY be that he doesn't' want to do much (and he has told me this) more so than him being unable. Which is which I do not know.
I was really convinced in the beginning he was seriously ill. After a year now, I am NOT. A year ago he told me he could not boil noodles, now MIRACULOUSLY he can. THe same thing with the phone. As well, he stated he could not understand his bills, yet he read the car warranty and deciphered it.
Medically I have set up his PCP again, a psychiatrist , and the neuropsych. He has blown off appointments, refused to take his medication, or follow up on recommendations With the medications, he does not outright say he is not taking them, he waits until I count them, confront him, tells me he forgets, and refuses to use a pill box. One of his meds was over a month behind.
I am very interested in hearing Op's on others who have dealt with similar issues.How do you separate yourself from the chaos (mentally)?
Many of dementia's behaviors look like the deliberate behaviors of people who are unkind, demanding, and just plain mean. It is hard to accept that physical conditions in the brain -- atrophy, deposits of various materials, dying cells -- are the cause.
Thanks for sharing your work shop experience.
This is a perfect opportunity for both of you to learn how to handle the manipulators who are found in all walks of life.
We can't change the people we encounter, but we can become strong within ourselves so our peace won't be disturbed by outside forces.
Blessings to all concerned and good luck in resolving this stressful issue.
When I was staying and caring for my cousin, I know how difficult it was to handle her behavior. It was very stressful. It was even stressful on her cat. The cat was not happy due to the unpredictable outbursts, constant worrying, etc. by my cousin. I know we are expected to take care of our elders, but I don't think some situations are healthy for kids. This is just my opinion.