My dad died 2 yrs ago. Have not heard anything from sibling or anything anout my dad's will. Sibling is in Canada.
I just got a certified letter saying I need to pay for dad's last year at nursing home. My sibling is POA for both parents.
I have no idea why this is coming to me. I was never privy to anything going on with my parents bills, other than to visit them. Or why it took 2yrs to send me a letter from a PA lawyer about a bill. Am I responsible? Im panicking here.
I agree with the point upthread that the court victories thus far (at least two have been upheld on appeal) will embolden other nursing homes and hospitals to go after the families.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamiehopkins/2019/02/06/you-might-be-on-the-hook-for-your-parents-nursing-home-costs/#45e0449833e8
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_responsibility_laws
https://blog.aarp.org/legal-grounds/more-filial-support-cases-ending-up-in-court
https://www.nextavenue.org/could-you-be-forced-pay-moms-nursing-home-bill/
Sounds like your sister should never had been made POA or executor. It would appear from looking at USA laws that the nursing home has a right to go after any children of a parent for monies.
I would be very interested in why she hadn’t paid the nursing home in full since that was his money to pay for his care. If it was that he didn’t have the money then I believe you have Medicare there and she should have fulfilled her obligations as POA / executor by ensuring that was in place. If it was he had enough - what did she do with it?
2) Bill is from nursing home.
This information is confusing, and perhaps is still unfolding.
difficulties. Some auditors were brought in to help. The auditors started sending out notices to former patients to pay the remainder of the outstanding balance that was not paid by medicare. There was no balance due. They were trying to collect the amount over and above the amount allowed by medicare.
It was serious enough that all of the local news got hold of the stories and warned people that this was illegal and not to pay anything.
What you have may be something similar. I would not pay anything with out a full accounting of the account. It just could be a scam being run by bill collectors or along those lines.
I think you really need to obtain a full copy of her entire record and maaybe even seek legal council.
Good luck
Then said she was paying a tiny bit per month, and said they cant come after you if bill is being paid. It stopped getting paid in june. No amswer as to why. Nursing home wasted no time coming after me.
I have no accounting of anything. Didnt with my mom either.
She must have known this was going to happen bc she gave them fame address.
We had a situation similar to this yrs ago. My father-in-law, who was estranged from his 2 kids, had heart by-pass done at Emory hospital. Out of the blue we started receiving calls/letters that we owed his bill or we would be reported to collection agency. NO, WE KNEW NOTHING ABOUT THIS AND WHAT DO WE HAVE TO DO WITH THIS? Father-in-law had placed us as next of kin. Big difference between notification of emergency and signing a contract to help pay for this surgery. We flat out told Emory where they could put their collection attempts.
We just happened to move to GA about a year later and the 1st week we were there, we received a letter from Emory with the same threats. My husband sent Emory a certified letter telling them that if they didn't stop their threats then Emory University would be known as ABCD UNIVERSITY. They should have made sure father-in-law had the means to pay and they did not have any legal right to come after us. NEVER HEARD FROM EMORY AGAIN.
DON'T ALLOW THEM TO SCARE YOU. YOU HAVE LEGAL RIGHTS AND YOU CAN TAKE THEM TO COURT FOR THREATENING YOU AS WELL AS NOT HAVING ANY LEGAL CLAIM TO COME TO YOU FOR THE MONEY.
I always thought I would handle things on my own first and then a lawyer. Recently I had to use a lawyer for transfer of property. He handled that, helped with the sale of the house and probate. It was so nice allowing someone else to do the job.
So it seems Im on my own with this. This 10k bill is supposed to be paid in 30days and if not lawyers/court fees added till they take me to court. None of my dads assets or will was discussed. I tried to discuss it, but no.
If only your sister would have come to you and both of you discuss the problem and 'worked together' to solve it.
I really would go to Estate lawyer and tell him/her about everything...the withholding dad's will...sister stop paying the NH bill...your sister has thrown you under the bus and by what you have posted she doesn't cares what happens to you...I wouldn't take this laying down!! I would let her know that she messed with the wrong person, but hey....that's just me...threaten my home, life, my world...oh h3ll no!!!
Have you ever wonder why your sister keeps the will from you? I do!
"People who have nothing to hid hid nothing." --Dr. Phil
Although, I agree that you should send a copy of the letter to your sister; however, I don't think she will be much help to you! The lawyer who is trying to collect for NH may have been in touch with your sister and got no where--just giving you heads up!
Don't panic...breath...find a lawyer or legal aid!
Just my 2 cents!
"Brother" is your sister in Canada.
Your mother has passed, and this is about your father's nursing home in PA.
So sorry that your sister has let you down.
Sorry for your loss of both parents.
You say there is a home/land. Any debts can come out of the equity in that home?
It may not need to be sold, it could be refinanced if there is no tax lien. What is the condition of the home....looking at the entire picture of assets may help you.
Is there any reason you cannot research yourself to find out about Dad's estate, the status of probate, and the current ownership of the house/land?
https://youtu.be/3lgyc_m-xUc
She was Power Of Att. for both mom/dad. Mom passed 7yrs ago. It took almost 5yrs for her to get the info for the will gathered up. I got a blank will with a signature. I didnt even know such a thing exsists.
As for dad I have seen NO will. I would never here the end of it if I even asked about it. Itwould be thrown in my face Im money grubber.
Been 2yrs now. I have no idea about it. Wouldn't be surprised if it is another blank will signed 1month b4 death. That way sibling can write a list of what the assets are. I never saw that with my moms. Just got a check out of no where. Not even explanation.
My parents had legit wills done 20yrs ago. But couldnt find them apparently. So says sibling.
I have been deliberately kept in the dark about everything. Sibling enjoys that I dont know. Have some property and she refused to tell me where it is at. I had to call the county and have paperwork sent. She isnt paying taxes on her portion. Lumped in with mine. Just laughs it off.
The nursing home would always call me first about my dad. They never wanted to call Canada. Sis screens her calls probably wouldnt call back anyway. Does that all the time.
I already called the lawyer. I didnt think it was a scam bc I had to sign for the letter. It still could be one, but I didnt think it was, bc sis told me she owed money once b4 to the nursing home. It seemed legit bc my dad was in/out of hospital constantly before he died.
As far as anything else concerning the will, executor if the will. I have no idea. Im totally in the dark and it is designed that way.
I dont know how they can come after me. My parents still have a home/land just sitting. Sis says she is never selling it. I dont know how that can be. If both parents are deceased. Again Im kept in the dark. Neighbors of my parents didnt even know I existed. Only ssibling.
Im sure the lawyer can go after that? If the lawyer calls me, I will be tight lipped. I wasnt going to give them any info but my sisters. I was going to tell him call her. The lawyer is in Pa as well. I read that is a state that can go after family of the deceased. So Im still in a big panic.
Iam just shocked the nursing home took 2yrs to get around to this????
My dad is in Pennsylvania. Only sis is in Canada. Only 2 of us. I guess she is executrix. I have heard nothing in 2yrs. Nothing about assets. Family home nothing. Thank you for your comments. I am totally at a loss as to what to do.
1. If you're concerned that the letter isn't legit, check this link:
https://www.martindale.com/search/attorneys-law-firms-articles/?term=debt collection, creditor's rights near Pennsylvania
and/or search online for "PA creditors' rights law firms", or "PA debt collection law firms." If the firm isn't listed, you could call the PA State Bar directly and tell them you're trying to locate a firm (with that name) and need a contact number and address.
Don't tell them you already have it; let them advise you if the firm is a PA law firm. This will help determine if it is in fact a law firm or is a scam outfit.
2. Was your father in fact in a nursing home for the last year of his life? If not, then definitely something's amiss!
3. Do you know if your father had a Will? Or a Trust? If so, do you know if your brother was Executor/Personal Representative, or Trustee?
4. Although your brother may have had POA authority, that would have ended on your father's death. Then the Executor, etc. would take over management of your father's assets.
5. I did some quick checking. This law firm's site offers insight into PA laws, including the statute of limitation for filing claims, specifically, within one year after the first notice of death published as required by law.
https://mcandrewslaw.com/publications-and-presentations/articles/paying-the-creditors-of-an-estate/
Your brother should address this issue, b/c if the claim is just being filed now, it may be that it hasn't been filed properly and/or the statute of limitations has run. This is critical in determining the legitimacy, timely filing, and what's known as "perfection" of the lien.
6. The 4th paragraph of the URL above addresses a situation in which there are insufficient assets to pay creditors.
It also may be that the estate had no funds and this law firm is coming after the grown children. Two years seem to me like an awful long time to wait before filing a claim, so I do wonder if something's amiss.
7. Since you don't have information on what happened after your father's death, I would, as others suggest, start with your brother and notify him. It doesn't sound as if you're close or in regular contact, so I would keep the original letter and send him a copy of it and of the envelope, and ask him specifically to address the issue of whether or not your father had a Will, and if he handled it.
There are more issues, such as what's known as intestacy if your father had no Will, but I would first get in touch with your brother and ensure that he's involved.
8. As to contacting the firm, I'm of "two minds" about this. I would try to get in touch with your brother first and clarify issues, but I would also be concerned about filial obligation statutes. You might call the PA Bar and ask if there's a free legal hotline, and see if you can get legal advice on this, especially if you don't have any funds to pay for the last year's care.
9. Another aspect that should be pursued is who signed any admission papers, and under what capacity. I'm not sure at this point how this would interface with filial obligations, but it's a good idea to know if anyone, such as your brother, accepted responsibility (perhaps w/o knowing it) for your father's financial obligations to the nursing home.
Don't panic, but do plan to do some research to protect yourself, starting with visiting your local senior center to get free advice on what kind of attorney might be needed if you need one. And I would also clarify the filial obligations statute and case law, including whether or not you, in whatever your financial situation is, could be liable if sued.
When you feel up to it, this is a summary of the PA Filial Obligation statute:
https://www.paelderlaw.net/pennsylvanias-filial-support-law-children-can-be-held-responsible-for-parents-unpaid-nursing-home-bill/
I believe its legit letter.
I have no knowledge of if my dad had a will. I think he did. Im pretty sure she is executor. Parents never discussed this with me. I wouldnt be surprised if she told them not to, or said ill handle it dont worry.
Assets have not been liquidated.
They probably tried to contact her but she gave them wrong address.
NO ONE knows whether it is a scam or not.
It is perfectly common to issue a warning about a scam.
Of course Jasmina will be checking into whether it is a scam or not.
One does not do that by contacting the originator of the letter first, and giving them information!
Jasmina needs more facts and should contact the sibling right away.
There is no way anyone on this forum can determine if this is a scam or not.
Just because the letter comes from PA with aggressive filial laws does not prove it cannot be a scam. Poor logic if anyone really believes that.
Jasmina, we may need more information from you. Did your Dad reside in Canada or the U.S.? Is your brother visiting, or living in Canada? Are you able to call him up?
Is there a probate opened at a courthouse that you can obtain a record or status on your Dad's estate?
If your mother is living, where is she? Wouldn't she have responsibility for the NH? Or, if she is protected as a community spouse, and your brother is POA, why aren't they handling it?
So many questions, not enough information.
If payment has to be made then it should be split between all heirs.
2 years is certainly time enough for an accounting on the will. In the USA a will that is probated is filed. If you are a beneficiary you have a right to a copy of the will. Ask your brother for a copy of the will, tell him that this triggered a kind of "need to know" moment for you.
Good luck. Don't panic. You don't owe your parents bills here unless Canada is VERY different from the USA. People always bring up this obscure never used law about children being liable, but I have NEVER heard of it being used. Hope we have some here to answer for that for sure.
The thing you REALLY need to know is that scammers are out there in just hoards. Be careful.
So the letter came from an Attorney? Does the name on the letterhead sound familiar? I am also wondering if this is a scam. Whatever you do, do not call any of the telephone numbers on the letterhead as those numbers could belong to the scammer. You can check on the internet if there is such an Attorney. Sometimes the internet will say if others have received such letters from that person.
No, you are NOT responsible. If this does turn out to be a legit debt, the Estate is responsible.
Copy and forward the letter to your brother.
Have you called POA sibling and asked?