Hi!! Have a great weekend!! I’ve been thinking…
(Sometimes) People should plan better for old age, for example Parkinson’s.
Let me explain what I mean. I have a friend whose father has Parkinson’s (no dementia). The Parkinson’s started 15 years ago.
So why didn’t the person plan better? He knew he’d have trouble later in life.
He planned nothing (he does have money).
I think if it had been me, I would plan, for example:
in the future I’ll need special furniture, etc.
The Parkinson’s didn’t suddenly appear now.
There were 15 years for him to plan.
He wants to stay home. No problem, ok.
He has money, ok.
But it’s his 4 sons who’ve had to run around: setting up special furniture, hired caregivers, etc., etc.
Thanks in advance for your opinions!
Don’t you also feel that someone who’s had an illness for a while, and who’s mentally ok, could have planned better?
Edit:
Adding here:
The person is mentally ok. He continues to write and publish political books; the person can do finances, etc.
They have No concern for going on Medicaid, they rather just blow through their money. There is no concern for putting their home into a revocable trust so their daughters don’t have to deal with probate. There is no plan to do a POA.
When there is a discussion to improve their living situation my mother will cry on cue that she didn’t expect to get this old. I’ve become very hard hearted lately and instead of feeling compassion I only feel utter rage because I have finally realized I am being manipulated into saying don’t worry mom, we will just deal with it. I don’t say that anymore. While my father does not have dementia his life revolves around a precise routine and order. He will not want to entertain any other options to get help in or move to assisted living.
And frankly the two of them do not trust that we have their best interests at heart.
I hate them for this mess.
I'd say no. This is a learning experience for him just as much as it is for the sons, and the fact that he forgot to consult a crystal ball to know how his illness would progress doesn't help the situation.
They should all be working as a team to ensure Dad is able to live at home in the way he desires. He shouldn't be expected to handle it all himself, nor should the sons.
Compromise and negotiation will be a big part of this teamwork, too. If Dad wants to stay home and not have falls, then he needs to have a chair that doesn't move. He refuses to have a different chair? Then he'll likely have a fall that will make him bedridden and the chair issue will be moot. The sons will have to allow the crisis to happen if he's so stubborn that he won't even be proactive about his safety.
I don't advocate for the sons to just walk away from him, because frankly, between four of them they should be able to eke out enough time to help out. However, if Dad falls from his rolling chair again, then the decision is made to get rid of the chair against his wishes and a better one gets brought in. Period. Sometimes even a competent person needs a swift kick in the pants in order to see the light.
“Does the fact that he's competent automatically mean he knows how to handle all this stuff?”
Yes he does know how to handle it. He knows the phone numbers of relevant furniture shops, he uses internet every day, etc.
“the fact that he forgot to consult a crystal ball to know how his illness would progress”
No.
There’s nothing unpredictable about his situation with Parkinson’s.
His case:
Losing mobility.
Gradually.
For 15 years.
Planned nothing.
…Walker? No. Sons had to force him, buy it
…Etc, it’s a long list.
This type of behavior is manipulative, F.O.G. (fear, obligation and guilt) inducing and selfish.
Who in their right mind uses rolling chairs that keep creating emergencies? Nobody in their right mind, that's who.
This is the type of behavior that his neurologist needs to know about, because smart people can hide LOTS of dementia and they can showtime with the best, leaving their medical team believing the reality is different then it really is.
Just 1 thing:
he really doesn’t have dementia. And neurologists know he wants to sit there. The doctors have come to the house. Easier, than the father being driven to the doctors.
Reasons the father gives for not getting a safer chair:
-the color doesn’t match the rest (it’s true, the color of the suggested, safe chair is a bit different)
-wants to continue longer with rolling chair, not buy new things (sons have pointed out the numerous bad falls)
-etc, new reasons
By the way, the sons have gone ahead and bought the safe chair. Arriving soon.
Thanks for your answer!!!
Because the consequences, problems inevitably land on the 4 sons’ shoulders.
If you don't help = you'll get even more stress, problems later.
"Don't they feel that they can say "no, Dad, you need to pay someone to do this. This isn't on us"?""
Venting, as our friend Beatty here likes to say "There will be no plan as long as YOU are THE PLAN.
Sons need to step back and say "sorry, dad, can't be there--you need to call 911".
Let that happen a few times and Dad may get the message.
Younger people establishing poor spending patterns can become older people w/o adequate funding sources.
saturday hug! :)
i’m just inserting my view here.
i think we can do whatever we want (decide to take super care of our health as we age, or not take super care).
i think OP’s point is different:
FIRSTLY,
OP said, the father knows for 15 years he has Parkinson’s. but during that time, did nothing to plan. the sons had to plan, buy things, hire caregivers.
SECONDLY,
the father’s non-action is causing big trouble for the sons.
OP gave the example:
father called son, was about to fall.
the son doesn’t have much of a choice in that moment. let the father catastrophically fall?
the son went and saved the father from falling.
(i bet that’s just 1 example of many).
OP explained that 99% of the problems can just be solved with safer furniture.
this would allow the sons to be free: not running around having to save problems.
no i don’t think you’re allowed to do whatever you want, when your non-action or action is harming other family members.
if you clean up all your own messes, fine.
but not if, like OP said, the father calls the sons in emergencies, to save the situations, which OP said are completely preventable by easy solutions (get safer furniture).
Reading your responses to all others who answered this thread of yours leads me to posit that sometimes when we "vent" about something that has already happened it is more of a "rant" than a vent.
Too late now to "punish" Dad for his lack of having understood the parable of the Grasshopper and the Ant. Your thread may not be a "vent", but of course that is the name you chose for yourself. You thread is certainly not a "real" question, because when something has happened already it doesn't matter our answers or opinions.
I am not certain if you came for our opinions or to argue with us.
Many feel as you do. Just as many feel we cannot predict the world and life well enough to cover all the bases. And it isn't as though you can show our answers to others who suggest you help your Dad to excuse the fact that you don't wish to do so.
It's up to you how much you assist, what manner you can "help", and whether you wish to help at all. No one here will judge you. We see outpourings all the time from siblings posting "How can I make my siblings help take care of ________". And from second wives saying "How can I make his children help me". And we always have to answer "You can't".
So YOU have a great Saturday. And know that as long as we are humans we will each decide differently what to do with our own life, and we will each end taking the responsibility for the outcome in one way or another, no matter what we chose.
And it won't matter a fig about the judgement of any of the rest of us.
Interesting question, though, and I hope next time you will put it in discussions so that it has a long long life.
Trouble is that when I was 12, anyone over 20 was over the hill, and I am sure all those happily pottering around in their 70's and 80's would reevaluate their views from 30 years prior. It's all relative and in the eye of the beholder and I think we are all guilty of ignoring what is unpleasant (if undeniable) at times and working around the problem until there is no alternative.
Perhaps we could look at this a little more pragmatically...
Should I have planned for losing hair and getting a transplant organised? No, although terrifying as a young person, my mind adapted with age (and besides, all my friends were bald, so at least I would fit in!).
Should I have chopped down that beautiful big tree in my yard, knowing it could kill the grass or upset my foundations? Maybe, but it rewarded me with many glorious days sitting beneath it's boughs, housed wild animals and been a blessing in the summer.
Should I not consume alcohol or processed foods considering I might get cancer? Definitely, but everything in moderation might ease my conscience if I do.
Should I not cross the street lest some truck be bearing down on me? Hm, how far should we prepare??
I guess we all have that bridge to cross and it is entirely up to us to determine our lives (including what we choose to ignore). It would be fair to say that decline is assured for all lucky enough to live that long (modern medicine has a lot to answer for!).
Once we reach that point, let's hope we don't give a damn either way and can depart on our own terms, happy in the knowledge that we made the call.
With this man, its his attitude. People like this think it will all work out. Especially when 4 sons jump at his every command. He doesn't need to worry because the sons are there to prevent it. The sons need to set boundries. Maybe a little tough love. They are disabling him if they are doing for him what he is capable of doing for himself. I am not beyond a little threat. "Dad if u don't get rid of that chair you are going to have a nasty fall and end up in an AL because...we are not going to physically care for you"
But if you're actually thinking in terms of change then the sons do need to stop volunteering and start responding to these emergencies differently.
Not volunteering to be somebody's front line support when they have every means of sorting themselves out but choose instead to take advantage of your good nature is not "abandoning" nor is it "refusing to help." It's called not being a sucker. And it's up to them.
I’m not just venting.
I had a specific question: posted above.
“Not volunteering to be somebody's front line support when they have every means of sorting themselves out but choose instead to take advantage of your good nature is not "abandoning" nor is it "refusing to help." It's called not being a sucker.”
I totally see your point, and I’ll show my friend your paragraph.
We should all make better plans for our future. Have you?
“Even a functioning father with long experience of Parkinson's can't force someone else to volunteer.”
Right. But the reality is that the consequences land on the sons. He calls his sons during emergencies:
his sons won’t abandon him.
For example, the son (brother of my friend) rushed home to save him from falling.
…..
Yes I have planned.
Agatha Christie, with dementia, wrote books for years into her diagnosis. The sons should look into neuropsych testing. My bet is that his executive functioning ability is shot.
Doctors decided:
no decline.
Again, it’s the sons who regularly organize check-ups with neurologists. They test physically/mentally every time.
Really-
the father is mentally ok.
Not everyone wants to plan, even when they know they have an illness; even when they can see physically they’re having trouble.
Some people prefer other people (sons) deal with the messes every time. Emergency, stress.
How about preventing?
Planning?
Making the house safer?
Tell his grown sons that failure to plan on dad's part, doesn't create an emergency for them. And, No! It is a complete sentence, they can absolutely tell him No!
This part however is tricky:
“Tell his grown sons that failure to plan on dad's part, doesn't create an emergency for them. And, No! It is a complete sentence, they can absolutely tell him No!”
Their father makes no plans.
The consequences, emergencies, problems, stress, inevitably land on the 4 sons’ shoulders.
The sons aren’t going to abandon their father.
They tried tough love.
The father makes no plans, buys no necessary equipment. 15 years.
So the sons buy it (with father’s money). If the sons don’t take action, even more stress will land on the sons.
The father had 15 years to make gradual plans, here and there. Did nothing.
I do see your point clearly though:
“Tell his grown sons that failure to plan on dad's part, doesn't create an emergency for them. And, No! It is a complete sentence, they can absolutely tell him No!”
I wish everyone a very good weekend! And thank you for all your replies!
Don't they feel that they can say "no, Dad, you need to pay someone to do this. This isn't on us"?
Because the consequences, problems inevitably land on the 4 sons’ shoulders.
If you don't help = you'll get even more stress, problems later.
"Don't they feel that they can say "no, Dad, you need to pay someone to do this. This isn't on us"?"
Good point.
Let me explain:
The sons set up caregivers (but it's not 24-hour).
Suddenly an emergency happens when the father is alone. Father calls sons.
The sons want to set up 24-hour. It hasn't been possible so far, because staff isn't available.
.....
The type of problems the father has are 99% preventable.
Just need safer furniture.
The sons are upset about this 99% that keeps landing on them.
Though they were doing OK my parents both continued working, living below their means, saving and saving hard, coupon clipping. They were in the depression, my Dad able to work through it and supporting much of his sibling and families. They took pride in growing gardens, in canning, in helping others, and in SAVING. they didn't know HOW to waste food.
It kind of came to my bro and me in the genes. We never needed to spend to enjoy life. We saved. This is the ONLY way (and all the better if you are smart enough to invest in real property) one can save to stay safe.
Sadly, it isn't as open to people as it once was, I think, given now people seem to need to work two jobs to live.
But quite honestly, we were always the LAST to have the newest things, including a TV. It wasn't privation. It was a simple gentle loving way of life. I wouldn't have traded game nights for a TV.
We were taught to save early with these little account books all our own, taught to share, taught to give, and taught to SAVE.
When my brother fell ill and had to go into ALF he had two beautiful rooms and the last of his treasured collections around him. And you know, he STILL saved. So funny. I was his Trustee and POA and he had one small spending account of his own with 5,000. When he died two years later it had only GROWN to 7,000.00. Was just his way of life. Sold a couple of his last treasures and tucked the money away. I kept telling him "Hon, you are going to be 85. Even if they throw you in memory care it's real unlikely you can outlive your money". But he was just a saver. It was what he DID. And too late to change I guess.
Some here have an expression which is "man plans and God laughs". It is good to understand that SOMETHING will come for us at SOME point, but difficult to tell what it might be and just how to plan.
I do agree, as another OP said the other day, that too many elders buy a BIGGER house, one with stairs, too late in life when they should be downsizing instead. But we each do it "our way".
Life's full of surprises. Some good, and some NOT. And on we go.
I hope your observations will be moved to "Discussions" where it will enjoy a longer life.
“So his disability as far as mobility happened almost at once?”
No. Gradually.
He could see clearly how things are going.
He had 15 years to make good, gradual plans along the way.
Year 3
Year 6
etc.
Did nothing.
That said, nobody can 'plan' for diseases to hit. I'm 65 in July and have no idea if I'll get cancer or Parkinson's or Alzheimer's, who knows??? And in reality, who knows what kind of 'special furniture' anyone is going to need? I can go out and buy wheelchairs, walkers, zero-gravity recliners, adjustable beds, but in the end, my house will look like a medical supply warehouse and I may never need ANY of those things, or worse yet, I may need entirely different medical equipment than what I bought!
Some planning is good, and other things just have to wait for the issue to hit before it's dealt with, in my opinion.
I see what you mean.
But please understand, this isn't a case of not knowing the disease will hit you.
The person has had Parkinson's for 15 years.
Never panned a single thing.
No, please understand, the person is mentally ok.
The person continues to write and publish political books; the person can do finances, etc.