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An inheritance is normall the separate property of the person who inherits it. Keep the money absolutely separate and consult an elder law attorney in your state.
Houserobot - ok so it's that the 40K would be actually coming from the sale of your mom's house.
And NOT the sale of the home you & your in a SNF hubs on Medicaid in a NH own. That's it right? Like what CountryMouse wrote.
So you have right now around the maximum allowed for a CS. Abt 119K. The 40K would be over and affect hubs Medicaid, that's your concern, right?
Here's my suggestion, you right now & ahead of the 40K inheritance, take maybe 50K from your CS asset kitty and turn it into a SPIA. Single premium immediate annuity. Now personally I hate annuities as so often they are sold to gullible elderly with payouts in their 90's…… BUT a SPIA is a very unique insurance product. Remember for a CS your income is NOT a factor in hubs Medicaid. Like CS who have a job, their income doesn't count. Your assets are; but not your income. So that SPIA becomes an income source paid to you. They are specialty insurance product and have just a few underwriters. OldBob who posts on this site has done this (his wife is in a facility). Maybe PM him to get more details. He has dealt very articulately with the dilemma of a CS. SPIA turns $ that is an currently a CS asset into an CS income source so not a factor for Medicaid.
I think they have to be Medicaid compliant (so Medicaid is listed as the beneficiary) to be allowed if your spouse is on Medicaid. But if you are a healthy somewhat younger CS, you will more than likely totally get the 50K annuity de-funded before you ever need care yourself or die. How its structured depends on the $ amount and actuarial tables.
So when you finally get the mom's house 40K, it just goes into the CS asset kitty & will be under the 119K allowed. You want to check on the exact amount as some states have it lower. 119K seems to be the average.
You know all this is a lot to deal with in just being a CS. To add elderly mom and then her death & estate stuff, pretty overwhelming. You are amazing to have done all this. Usually I post that for CS situations you need to speak with a NAELA elder law atty as it's oodles more complex for Medicaid than for a widow or widower parent. But you've already gotten over that hurdle. It may be quite worthwhile to speak with an estate atty if your mom's probate atty is less than stellar. The distribution paperwork is pretty precise. If you or your siblings have costs associated with maintaining the estate, you all need to get the documentation done so that those costs can be deducted from distribution. If your the executor, you may want to send a certified letter to each heir as to doing this, so no carping later on…… Certified with the return registered card (the green card) runs maybe $ 8.00 @ USPO and so very worth it! So if Sissy spent $14.95 for light bulbs, its totally on her to properly document and submit to executor or atty & if she doesn't, well thats just unfortunate for Sissy.
I'm not sure the mention of "family home" in the headline isn't a bit of a red herring, though - Houseplant, is the inheritance just cash from the sale of somebody else's home, not the home of the couple "CS + SNF spouse"?
If that's so, then CS inherits $40K on her own account, after her husband's Medicaid application was accepted two years ago. Now what? Does her husband's care provider have any claim on her family inheritance? Does her inheritance become his asset in part?
The approx. 40K is the final amount each beneficiary receives after settlement. We can wait on the sale of the home as long as renters occupy the place. Once they leave we will have to sale due to the repairs needed to bring a 50 year old house up to today's standards. Our 40K takes into account the fact that a new owner will have to do a lot of work so that comes off the sales price. Mom's estate collects the rent, pays the bills , and taxes are filed/paid for the estate. I've had this job awhile now. We don't want to close out if it's going to compromise anyone, so we are trying to hold on as long as possible. In our state $25K is a cutoff amount. If less, the state does not always pursue Medicaid claims. It never occurred to me I would need to deal with such complicated issues at the same time, across time zones, and with so many entities. Mom died about 3 months before all broke loose with my spouse. So really, there were many months I got up like a robot or maybe a bot, put one foot in front of the other, pinched myself to confirm I was alive, and went about as best I could. I move between my mom's estate business and my husband's Medicaid business. Really the stakes are pretty high in both. Even where it's not huge sums of money, mistakes could be expensive and cause complications in an already complicated area. My actions affect the immediate and future outcomes for 5 of us in total. So if I don't do it right I'll catch it from somewhere. So as I get to this stage, I was realizing there is a whole new can of worms once the parent's house is sold and beneficiaries paid. My share won't be just mine and I'm still wandering through the Medicaid Maze and the mystery of estate settlement. Sort of like going down the dark rabbit hole and hoping to come out whole. So go ahead and say what you think. Waiting it out as long as possible sounds like a good path. In the meantime if others have hints, tips, facts that help with these situations I'd like to know.
Housplant, the 40k would be total proceeds from sale of house, including seller closing costs and Realtor commission? Really 40k, that's it, right? Is there a mortgage that is getting paid off? Cause 40k is pretty low value.
If its value is actually 40k, does CS really need to sell the house? If not, I'd not sell the house but continue to own it and only place on market after the SNF spouse passes away & CS gets release of any merp claim/lien. 40k means, assuming CS inherits all, that only 20k becomes the estate of the late on medicaid SNF spouse. 20k is a pretty low amount for estate recovery MERP to bother with. Some states do not deal with property under a certain value (like under 75k) as it can pose a hardship for surviving spouse & costs more to persue if CS / family open probate than warrants doing. If it were me I'd not sell, but wait till death, then do a request for a full release of the merp claim against the estate as property value is low. If recovery doesn't budge, the CS could open probate (assuming theres a valid will) and so between costs of probate, funeral /burial costs and expenses related to late spouse share on house after DoD, etc, which all are themselves claims against the estate, it could add up to 10k or more. If probate opened, MERP has to abide by probate laws, file a claim, respond to executor requests, etc. The 40k tax assessor value on house is a known, so recovery might not even bother to file a claim.
Why, well, MERP has a cost-benefit threshold for recovery: - no action if recovery under 3k - no action if recoverable estate is 10k or less. The SnF estate - assuming 40k house is community property - is 20k & then factor in possible estate costs, likely it takes it under 10k. Under cost-benefit.
But if the house has to be sold, it's gonna be sticky as 20k is going to take SnF spouse over income / asset maximum allowed by medicaid. The month of closing the 20k (1/2 ownership of community property) is income that takes them over monthly income max and then becomes an asset taking them over the 2k asset maximum allowed afterwards. If they are at deaths-door, selling now creates all sorts of paperwork & Medicaid complications at a time when everybody is stressed, bereaved, exhausted, etc. Unless you just have to have to have to sell, I'd wait. And this doesn't even get into dealing with the whole CS going over the 119k maximum asset issues.....
So -& not to sound cold & harsh - can you all wait this out?
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
And NOT the sale of the home you & your in a SNF hubs on Medicaid in a NH own. That's it right?
Like what CountryMouse wrote.
So you have right now around the maximum allowed for a CS. Abt 119K. The 40K would be over and affect hubs Medicaid, that's your concern, right?
Here's my suggestion, you right now & ahead of the 40K inheritance, take maybe 50K from your CS asset kitty and turn it into a SPIA. Single premium immediate annuity. Now personally I hate annuities as so often they are sold to gullible elderly with payouts in their 90's…… BUT a SPIA is a very unique insurance product. Remember for a CS your income is NOT a factor in hubs Medicaid. Like CS who have a job, their income doesn't count. Your assets are; but not your income. So that SPIA becomes an income source paid to you. They are specialty insurance product and have just a few underwriters. OldBob who posts on this site has done this (his wife is in a facility). Maybe PM him to get more details. He has dealt very articulately with the dilemma of a CS. SPIA turns $ that is an currently a CS asset into an CS income source so not a factor for Medicaid.
I think they have to be Medicaid compliant (so Medicaid is listed as the beneficiary) to be allowed if your spouse is on Medicaid. But if you are a healthy somewhat younger CS, you will more than likely totally get the 50K annuity de-funded before you ever need care yourself or die. How its structured depends on the $ amount and actuarial tables.
So when you finally get the mom's house 40K, it just goes into the CS asset kitty & will be under the 119K allowed. You want to check on the exact amount as some states have it lower. 119K seems to be the average.
You know all this is a lot to deal with in just being a CS. To add elderly mom and then her death & estate stuff, pretty overwhelming. You are amazing to have done all this. Usually I post that for CS situations you need to speak with a NAELA elder law atty as it's oodles more complex for Medicaid than for a widow or widower parent. But you've already gotten over that hurdle. It may be quite worthwhile to speak with an estate atty if your mom's probate atty is less than stellar. The distribution paperwork is pretty precise. If you or your siblings have costs associated with maintaining the estate, you all need to get the documentation done so that those costs can be deducted from distribution. If your the executor, you may want to send a certified letter to each heir as to doing this, so no carping later on…… Certified with the return registered card (the green card) runs maybe $ 8.00 @ USPO and so very worth it! So if Sissy spent $14.95 for light bulbs, its totally on her to properly document and submit to executor or atty & if she doesn't, well thats just unfortunate for Sissy.
let us know what shakes out, ok?
If that's so, then CS inherits $40K on her own account, after her husband's Medicaid application was accepted two years ago. Now what? Does her husband's care provider have any claim on her family inheritance? Does her inheritance become his asset in part?
Igloo - that's one impressive reply!
Mom's estate collects the rent, pays the bills , and taxes are filed/paid for the estate. I've had this job awhile now. We don't want to close out if it's going to compromise anyone, so we are trying to hold on as long as possible.
In our state $25K is a cutoff amount. If less, the state does not always pursue Medicaid claims. It never occurred to me I would need to deal with such complicated issues at the same time, across time zones, and with so many entities.
Mom died about 3 months before all broke loose with my spouse. So really, there were many months I got up like a robot or maybe a bot, put one foot in front of the other, pinched myself to confirm I was alive, and went about as best I could.
I move between my mom's estate business and my husband's Medicaid business. Really the stakes are pretty high in both. Even where it's not huge sums of money, mistakes could be expensive and cause complications in an already complicated area. My actions affect the immediate and future outcomes for 5 of us in total. So if I don't do it right I'll catch it from somewhere.
So as I get to this stage, I was realizing there is a whole new can of worms once the parent's house is sold and beneficiaries paid. My share won't be just mine and I'm still wandering through the Medicaid Maze and the mystery of estate settlement. Sort of like going down the dark rabbit hole and hoping to come out whole.
So go ahead and say what you think. Waiting it out as long as possible sounds like a good path. In the meantime if others have hints, tips, facts that help with these situations I'd like to know.
Is there a mortgage that is getting paid off? Cause 40k is pretty low value.
If its value is actually 40k, does CS really need to sell the house? If not, I'd not sell the house but continue to own it and only place on market after the SNF spouse passes away & CS gets release of any merp claim/lien. 40k means, assuming CS inherits all, that only 20k becomes the estate of the late on medicaid SNF spouse. 20k is a pretty low amount for estate recovery MERP to bother with. Some states do not deal with property under a certain value (like under 75k) as it can pose a hardship for surviving spouse & costs more to persue if CS / family open probate than warrants doing. If it were me I'd not sell, but wait till death, then do a request for a full release of the merp claim against the estate as property value is low. If recovery doesn't budge, the CS could open probate (assuming theres a valid will) and so between costs of probate, funeral /burial costs and expenses related to late spouse share on house after DoD, etc, which all are themselves claims against the estate, it could add up to 10k or more. If probate opened, MERP has to abide by probate laws, file a claim, respond to executor requests, etc. The 40k tax assessor value on house is a known, so recovery might not even bother to file a claim.
Why, well, MERP has a cost-benefit threshold for recovery:
- no action if recovery under 3k
- no action if recoverable estate is 10k or less. The SnF estate - assuming 40k house is community property - is 20k & then factor in possible estate costs, likely it takes it under 10k. Under cost-benefit.
But if the house has to be sold, it's gonna be sticky as 20k is going to take SnF spouse over income / asset maximum allowed by medicaid. The month of closing the 20k (1/2 ownership of community property) is income that takes them over monthly income max and then becomes an asset taking them over the 2k asset maximum allowed afterwards. If they are at deaths-door, selling now creates all sorts of paperwork & Medicaid complications at a time when everybody is stressed, bereaved, exhausted, etc. Unless you just have to have to have to sell, I'd wait. And this doesn't even get into dealing with the whole CS going over the 119k maximum asset issues.....
So -& not to sound cold & harsh - can you all wait this out?