Should I install a hidden camera?

Not only do nurses and other professionals including teachers have a duty to report ouse they are mandated reporters.

The Duty to Report was the first thing that jumped out at me too. The nurse reporting her concerns to you is not appropriate. What are you supposed to do with that information...In this situation, I think making nice with the wife and impressing on her that you recognize she has to be in a very stressful situation to get her to let you in...Taking dad out for some father-daughter time sounds like a non-threatening gesture.

Nurses and other medical personnel have a DUTY TO REPORT ABUSE in most states . To ignore this could cost the nurse's license.

Why would you not let them know there are cameras and why would they be hidden? Are you trying to "get" your stepmother or be sure your father is not being abused? I'm a wife but I have cameras all over and I tell all caregivers they are here. If it makes them better caregivers, then I've accomplished my goals.

I believe in most states nurses HAVE A DUTY TO REPORT abuse. Period. This nurse should be QUICKLY REMINDED of this law.

The statute states that at least one party must be aware that the taping is going on, so tell your dad you're doing this for his protection. In NY audio is illegal, but I did it anyway when my mom had aides.

PNWgirl58,
It's amazing how much authority you have with the DPOA. I have the DPOA that includes finances and a separate medical POA. I have visited many Senior Care Facilities and that is the first thing they ask for and I always have it with me. They will not meet with you without it. If you and your husband are attending support groups then you know that the stage your father is at is a pretty serious stage for both of them to be dealing with. You should get help ASAP!!
Hope all the information you've been given helps you.

PNWgirl58,
It's amazing how much authority you have with the DPOA. I have the DPOA that includes finances and a separate medical POA. I have visited many Senior Care Facilities and that is the first thing they ask for and I always have it with me. They will not meet with you without it. If you and your husband are attending support groups then you know that the stage your father is at is a pretty serious stage for both of them to be dealing with. You should get help ASAP!!
Hope all the information you've been given helps you.

Hi! I understand what everyone is saying to you: there are privacy laws to abide by...consider your dad's wife's position and how hard things are for her, don't interfere as it's their house and their marriage, bla bla bla.

The important thing is you have seen the signs of some kind of abuse committed by this woman, something unacceptable for anyone let alone your dad; it's especially harmful for an Alzheimer's patient. And let's not forget that's illegal. You have seen a woman whom is exhausted and has lost all warmth towards your dad (something an Alzheimer's patient has great need for). You see a woman who is cold towards you, who won't let his daughter to see him alone! She has alienated him, which is plain suspicious and wrong. A dad needs his daughter, no matter what stage of the Alzheimer's he's in. He needs family. He needs love. He needs respect. And again, no one has a right to abuse him. I must stress again that it's illegal.

Yes, talking to a lawyer is a must. I agree, however I also think you need to take matters into your own hands NOW. Have you seen the abuse? Yes, you said. That's enough reason to install cameras in their house. You can try talking to your dad alone, without her being present. You have to succeed in getting him alone. As a daughter, you have the right to see him and be with him. You will just have to be strong and persist. Try to see how he feels about the woman, etc., which you might not get a clear answer to as he is in a moderate stage of Alzheimer's. Ask him many times as someone with Alzheimer's changes his or her story often. I know from my mother-in-law. Ask him for his permission in installing a 'monitor' and state that your reason for doing this is so that you can make sure that THEY are safe. You care for them...but especially for him. If he agrees, tell him not to say anything. He probably will forget about it anyway.

If he doesn't agree to installing a camera or cameras, do it anyway. Go over with your husband for a visit. Install them in the living room, any hallways and the kitchen, in a hiding place...a plant, a lighting fixture, a picture frame...don't tell them. You are doing this for your dad and his safety.

Talk to the nurse and encourage her to report any abuse she has seen. She may be afraid, but it's worth a shot.

About privacy laws, there is no issue here. It's their house. If you get caught by chance, then you can say that you had asked your dad for his permission and he granted it to you. Your dad could have easily forgotten that 'fact'. If you watch the videos, and you see that the woman abuses him, and if you cannot use these videos in court, then you could say that you SAW the abuse with your own two eyes...from their house windows as your were paying them a visit. That's believable.

The important thing is for your dad to be safe. You have seen the abusive nature of this woman, something that constitutes a danger to his safety. If you also have a gut feeling about this woman being dangerous for your dad, then don't bother waiting. Act now. If you do not do anything about this matter, then you may regret it for the rest of your life.

Hope you work things out! I wish you the best of luck and strength!

Kind regards,

Tina :)

There are so many issues here; everything from possible elder abuse, your invasion of privacy, who should be providing care, how are finances being managed and will that change, if your father receiving proper care, is your dads wife receiving counseling? Start by meeting with an eldercare attorney.

Thank you for all your responses...for those of you who have thought I was just complaining about a haircut, it was an observation and nothing more. My dad has always been immaculately groomed and when those things start to be missed, I think there is reason to note it.
My husband and I go to a support group and have for a year. The wife refuses to go. She tells us that so many of her friends have had partners with dementia/ALZ and so she knows how to handle it and doesn't need or want our input.
Someone asked about age, my dad is 91, she is 75. I know she didn't sign up for this, but she already has three divorces under her belt and I am pretty sure she doesn't want another one. My dad is still sweet, kind and cooperative when I have spent time with him and the nurse at their apartment complex has said the same, but has noticed the wife isn't so kind to him anymore.
I am his only child, DPOA for finances, health and all other matters. Everything financially is locked into a trust with one beneficiary and the wife is not named in the will so there are no worries there.

I do appreciate the suggestions to be sweet, offer a treat, etc... I have already done that and have been met with unkindness and a lot of scripture verses being thrown at me. I have come to the conclusion that it's up to me to find a memory care facility that will be good for him when the time and crisis comes. Until then...well, not more can be done at this time.

I would, I have had 4 caregivers and worry about what is going on in the day with my mother. I had an alarm installed on the doors knowing that the day will come when she starts to wonder. I had 3 cameras installed that pretty much covers all the area's that I need to see, I do log in during the day and I feel much better being able to see what is going on.

It is touchy because she is his wife but if she didn't sign up for it and its making her abuse then she needs to divorce him and move on. I would try and install camera's in the main living area..not in bedroom. You may also want to see about being named his Medical POA, then you could get private time with him without her permission. If you ever had a decent relationship with her then invite her out to lunch alone and have a heart to heart. Ask her if she is overwhelmed and if you could do more to help. Don't mention abuse at all. Mention cameras and ask her if you can put them in for the safety of both of them in case she should fall as well your dad would not be in a position to call for help. Try the sweet approach first. It is always easier if it doesn't get ugly.

Even with a DPOA, unless you are also GUARDIAN, meaning you have the right to stand in your father's place legally in EVERY MATTER, privacy laws still apply. The wife must consent to monitoring in her own home! She didn't give up her expectation of privacy or her RIGHTS to marital privacy. What are you going to do if you discover that YOUR DAD is physically and verbally abusive to his wife, also? Frequently, ALZ./dementia patients are abusive to their caregivers. It's a fine line.
I suspect that you could be removed as POA if you do this, for cause, and you would open the door for the spouse to be named his POA by a court. It's not your home and it's not exclusively HIS home, alone...you cannot just start taping because you want to! Wow...some of these responses here are incredibly misguided in terms of privacy laws.
How would YOU FEEL, if someone videotaped, with audio, your private moments, in your home, with your spouse? What if you catch them being intimate? That's highly likely...I am going to urge you to leave this alone until you have something REALLY CONCRETE to work with. Your best alternative is to have them move into YOUR HOME. Then the rules change. Yep, that Parent's Suite/addition is a game changer.

Complaining about a bad haircut is ridiculous and it makes the rest of your complaints sound untrue, maybe. It's not easy taking care of the elderly and maybe she needs help or something.

Definitely listen to everyone around you and install the hidden cameras. If you have professionals coming to you suggesting the same thing, definitely listen to them but don't let anyone know about them or you'll put the abuser on enough notice to maybe start abusing him somewhere else. Another thing you can do until you get the camera is have witnesses who are near the room suddenly pop in as soon as they hear something from their location. Another thing you might consider is putting a body cam on the patient if you can get him alone, this is between you and him and depends on his capabilities.

I would also hurry up and get guardianship especially if he has any kind of money order assets. The abuser may very well be trying to get any money or assets he has, and getting guardianship will give you the power to secure everything of value. Guardianship will also give you the power to protect any inheritance that goes to rightful heirs. It's well-known that vultures all too often end up stealing from not only our elders, but also their families

PNWgirl58
I have installed security cameras by my front door (so I know who is there before I open it) and another in the bedroom of the person I am a caretaker for. They are from a company called ARLO and you need wifi in the home to use them on your computer or on your ipad. I think if you do it that way you can view it from wherever you are at. However, my knowledge is limited with computer stuff! The camera works on batteries and takes pictures when ever there is movement. It has given me great peace of mind. I would hear sounds coming from his bedroom and instead of getting out of bed and opening his door to see if he is OK I just look at my tablet. This is about how I use the system to assist me and keep us safe.
You have a different need. I will make one suggestion as to how to handle the purchase and installation.
First, of course, you have to know the laws.
Second, perhaps it would help if you create a different approach with your stepmother. Even a snarling dog will change his attitude when offered a treat of some sort. You don't have to like her, but you do need to find a way to make peace for all of your sakes.
I posted a story a short time ago how I learned to do this. My mother was very immature, beautiful, but underneath she was nasty. So I never learned how to make friends just to defend myself. One day when I was around kintergarden age by neighborhood friends and I had a tiff. They ran away from me and wouldn't play with me. I was hurt and I was also lonely. My mother only made it worse - she told me my friends were no good and I should not play with them anymore. As I said before, I was lonely. I went to the back door of my girlfriends house and her mother was preparing dinner. Thru the screen door I told her that "they" won't play with me. I was hurt. We continued our conversation thru the screen door while she cooked. She was kind to me and I felt I had a friend to talk to. She suggested that I offer them some Jelly bread. So I ran home and made jelly bread and offered as a peace offering to my friends. The argument was forgotten and we were friends again. I never forgot the lesson! To this day I can't remember what started the problem.
You do what you have to do to get along in life. Starting a war when a peace offering may do the trick instead seems to make sense to me. I am not suggesting not keeping your eyes open but instead to change the way you deal with it.
I wish you luck and feel your pain.
Rosepetal

Hello PNWgirl58,
You share a lot of uncertainties and show a lot of concern. How old is your dad and how old is she? I mean if they're in their late 70's or 80's, or any age for that matter, it can be extremely difficult. Why don't you have a heart to heart talk with her and let her know caring for a person with dementia can be very trying, because it can be. Let her know that people have brought up some concerns the pinchs, slaps and the verbal outburst and you're worried. Let her know you're there for her and if she needs time to herself you'll help however you can OR do you really know what is happening here? Caring for a person with this condition is not easy and we members of Agingcare.com know this. I've been through it and still going through it with my mom. My mom gets very stubborn, agitated and swears there's nothing wrong with her. There is no reasoning with this disease. Personally, you need to try and be more caring of her. Let her know you care about BOTH or them and want to make sure they BOTH being taken care of health wise. You should join a support group and take her with you. Have your husband stay with your dad and help her out. It's a family effort and you need to stay as a family because things are going to get harder and you are going to need each other's support. Join a support group today!!!
God Bless and stay strong

just curious...how old is his wife???

The first thing I would do is consult an elder law attorney. Bring your POA. Tell the attorney what is going on and that the visiting nurse suspects that your father is being abused by his wife. Tell the attorney that the nurse has advised you to install hidden cameras, in order to document elder abuse. This is probably the safest (for you) place to get advise.

I would consider contacting your area's Council for the Aging (or similar such organization) for advise. I would go this route only if (a) I couldn't afford a consultation with an elder law attorney or (b) the attorney recommends this route. A social worker from the Council for the Aging (or similar organization) can tell you what to do when you and a professional caregiver suspect that your elderly parent is the victim of spousal abuse.

Don't install hidden cameras before consulting an attorney.

yes if you can install a camera do it after a few days you can let them know but you already taped for two days with real act from your father's wife
I am sorry ,  maybe you can't do it by law but I did  for my mom with care giver I had a camera  some where not hiding it but it was hard to see it they should specially  look for it to see . However because she was not doing anything she was stealing from my mom not cleaning nothing bring a little food from her home which my mom was not able to eat and she was eating all the good stuff from my mom .   I didn't mind if she was eating if she was given it to my mom as well . how ever after 5 days she saw  the camera as I said it was not hidden at the same time I called her and told her I have a camera to watch my mom when she is by her self but it record all day . if I was telling her from the day one then I was not able to record the evidence  of what she is doing from that time she make sure she give my mom what she like and she start to clean her small apartment. infact she is doing what is under her responsibility 

If the nurse has noticed it too, why isn't SHE reporting it? Isn't that part of her job?

If you get your fathers approval, you should be ok. And let's face it: you only need the video for proof and leverage. If you get proof of her abuse, you might be able to use it to force her to move out. Not necessarily for proof for assault. Do it! We got ours from Walmart. A Motorola one and it hooks up to the cloud for $10 a month.

An eldercare attorney would know if you would violate any privacy rights. It's a tough decision because if she is NOT harming him, it would completely destroy your relationship with her, and probably him as well. See if you can get some time alone with him. If her reaction is negative, you might ask her what she could possibly be afraid of. Her reaction in itself might be an indication, and so would his. As you've indicated, their relationship seems to have cooled. Maybe it's time to find out why.

You might say you are taking him for a haircut, and see what her reaction is to that, also. Getting his hair cut might not be neglect, but I think not even combing it is. Ask the attorney about that, and about your options if she IS neglecting him. As another person said, this wasn't what she signed up for, although the fact that they have only been married four years makes me wonder why she didn't think that this might be a possibility, or even if she wanted it to be. It's hard not to be suspicious, especially when other people are noticing the meanness.

I agree with Happy Days- gut feelings are usually accurate. If I was in your position, and I have not known the character of father's spouse for too long, I would investigate. First, I would seek the advice of an eldercare attorney to ensure I would not be liable or be sued if the spouse discovered cameras. You don't want to cause more harm or exacerbate your father's symptoms. With that being said, Elderabuse is one of the most underrepresented issues around the world. Many times this abuse/neglect is coming from family or staff if living in a nursing home environment. Living with someone with a progressive mental diagnosis is very stressful, it changes people. Nobody can truly know how they would be affected when they are charged with 24/7 care of their loved one to watch them demonstrate more and more symptoms. I have seen it, not only in my family, but also in the lives of my patient's families.
Be smart, get legal council. Then do everything you can do to advocate for him. He is lucky to have you. - Michelle

The very first stop would be to see a local attorney. Laws regarding video or audio recording vary from state to state. Also, what is posted on a forum such as this are generally opinions. In a matter as potentially complicated as this, you need hard facts about what is and is not allowed in a court of law in your state. I'm sorry this is happening and salute you for being your father's advocate.

In *MY* house I have cameras installed all over the place. It's my house and there is nothing hidden. They all are in plain view.
You do NOT have the right install hidden cameras in other people's homes without their consent.

If you have that gut feeling something could be wrong. I would absolutely put up a camera. If you or family members have seen pitching and a hit on the arm. Then what is going on after you leave. The wife not wanting to leave him alone with anyone could go two ways. She could be very concerned for him. Or she could be scared of what he might tell. I wouldn't wait another day to find out. Good luck to all of you.

I would seek advice from an eldercare attorney. My feeling is - yes, do install cameras. If there is nothing bad going on, then no one should get upset or hurt when the camera data is looked at. On the other hand, if things are happening - either from the caretaker or the patient, then you will have the facts on film and then you can decide what you might want to do. Just do NOT let anyone know there are hidden cameras. But find a way to check the contents periodically so you are on top of things at all times. You never know what is going on until you see it in real terms.

I believe that you must notify the person of the video taping before you do it. Privacy laws.